TRM Tuning FIRST EVER SOFTWARE SALE

[TRM]

TRM Tuning is happy to announce our first ever sale on tuning software, now until February 10th!

15% off any of our software and software packages both OBDI and OBDII

Some examples

OBDI blow-through package normally $1500, now on sale for $1275.

OBDI Custom Supercharging tunes, normally $649.99, now $552.46.

As always our software comes with full support.

Sale prices are active on our website and please direct any technical questions to

info@trmtuning.com

[mcoupemindy]

Umm ...

OH HELL YEAH :buttrock

I'm here to talk with anyone who would like to learn about my experience with TRM. They have been VERY good to me, and I'm by far one of the hardest customers to please.

Good luck guys ... with this pricing, you should be swamped with orders.

[BavarianLove]

Thank you for supplying us with much power and outstanding service TRM!

Is there any word on tuning 80lbs. injectors for pump gas or e85?

[E30Alpina]

Bump to some of the best guys out there, mike is cooking up a tune for me now. Experienced, professional, great support and excellent products!! If anyone is one the fence now is the time to step up!

[milKt]

Is there any word on tuning 80lbs. injectors for pump gas?

If the gents are willing,
I'll gladly guinea up while I'm there.

I still have to get my exhaust fabbed up. Then, I go to peach.

[Tazmanian Devil]

Talk to you tomorrow. I need a new tune.

[jajou318]

Wow good deal

[BadBoostedBmwM3]

Nice! Nice...


What about a custom turbo tune for a D-T: 803MAF, and my 60lb injectors? I remember the tunes being $650 for three chips....

[darrenforeal]

:buttrock

[Tristo]

Funny you mentioned this! I just committed to buy a s/c kit for my e36 m3. The miles are rather high, but I'm going to only run 7lbs of boost. The motor itself has great compression, runs like a champ, and feels quite reliable. I still feel a tad bit weary of boosting an older motor, but I have so many go-fast goodies sitting in my house I feel like a prop room for the fast and the furious movies. (2 turbos, a 2liter m10, m10 turbo mani, zex wet shot kit for my e30), and I don't want my m3 to be the same. Is there anything you recommend doing save for a rebore/rering of the block to ensure the motor holds together? I was thinking new crankshaft and rod bearings and a h/g replacement. Possibly a meth-inj as well. I'm glad you're doing obd2 tunes and you're number one on my list, I just wanted some advice before I pull the trigger for the tune, thanks

[mcoupemindy]

Funny you mentioned this! I just committed to buy a s/c kit for my e36 m3. The miles are rather high, but I'm going to only run 7lbs of boost. The motor itself has great compression, runs like a champ, and feels quite reliable. I still feel a tad bit weary of boosting an older motor, but I have so many go-fast goodies sitting in my house I feel like a prop room for the fast and the furious movies. (2 turbos, a 2liter m10, m10 turbo mani, zex wet shot kit for my e30), and I don't want my m3 to be the same. Is there anything you recommend doing save for a rebore/rering of the block to ensure the motor holds together? I was thinking new crankshaft and rod bearings and a h/g replacement. Possibly a meth-inj as well. I'm glad you're doing obd2 tunes and you're number one on my list, I just wanted some advice before I pull the trigger for the tune, thanks

If the compression and leakdown are fine, bolt it on and go for it. 7psi isn't anything you'd need to worry about modifying for. Heck, most guys run 11psi with stock headgaskets and bolts.

Give them a call and I'm sure they will be able to discuss everything with you.

[OnUrleft]

Badass guys, keep it up

[OnUrleft]

Badass guys, keep it up

[OnUrleft]

Badass guys, keep it up

[Tristo]

If the compression and leakdown are fine, bolt it on and go for it. 7psi isn't anything you'd need to worry about modifying for. Heck, most guys run 11psi with stock headgaskets and bolts.

Give them a call and I'm sure they will be able to discuss everything with you.

I like having eeeeverything in a row before I call and bug them, they're probably super busy, lol. Id rather wait until the money's in the bank and ready to head their way, lol.

[MikeE36]

they're probably super busy

Truer words have not been uttered.


I like having eeeeverything in a row before I call and bug them, they're probably super busy, lol. Id rather wait until the money's in the bank and ready to head their way, lol.

You are what I like to call a "good customer." :D




TRM will answer your questions and help you out :D,








even if you are a BAD customer like me...




-Mike

[Tristo]

Then ill give u guys a call tomorrow, but I thought techno550 was ur sn...:confused

[ZimDoc]

Then ill give u guys a call tomorrow, but I thought techno550 was ur sn...:confused

Nope. Name change.

[TRM]

Then ill give u guys a call tomorrow, but I thought techno550 was ur sn...


Nope. Name change.


No, different people. :menani


Techno550 IS the tuner but he has very limited time to visit the boards, we rarely let him out of the shop area due to the multiple new projects and prototype vehicles in the pipeline that need his full attention.


For the fastest response to questions, please email them to info@trmtuning.com

[Tristo]

I called today and left a message...No one loves tristo :(

[Keith1054]

(Sorry, I have been out of the loop for a while) So now OBD2 can be remotely tuned? What are some of the advantages of a OBD2 tune over OBD1?
Are features like multi-tune or "launch mode" availible?

[RVAE34]

Can I add a +1 to TRM being the tits!

[TRM]

I called today and left a message...No one loves tristo :(

Apologies for missing your call, there was a really loud and mad M3 on the dyno.

[BavarianLove]

Tell me you guys are tuning 80lbs.

[cragg56]

Tell me you guys are tuning 80lbs.

+1. Also since your tuning is on sale, does that mean the kits will have a price reduction since tuning is now included with the kit.

[MikeE36]

Tell me you guys are tuning 80lbs.

+1 :shifty

-Mike

[milKt]

I'm hoping that Jordan's decent numbers will be the catalyst for the TRM Tuning "ochenta libras de crema".

:D

[BavarianLove]

McCoy, come on...

[RK-Tunes]

I'm hoping that Jordan's decent numbers will be the catalyst for the TRM Tuning "ochenta libras de crema".

:D


I didn't number my numbers we just "decent"...
thanks for the love Craig <3

[TRM]

+1. Also since your tuning is on sale, does that mean the kits will have a price reduction since tuning is now included with the kit.

Yes we can reduce the kit price accordingly. Just give us call and let us know when you want the kit shipped:D


Tell me you guys are tuning 80lbs.

OBD2 80lb tunes will be shipping soon.

[Tristo]

I was jokin about the no love thing. My buddy owns a local, non famous shop and is busier then all hell.

[milKt]

Obd3 100# ?

[95m3Lightweight]

Is there any word on tuning 80lbs. injectors for pump gas or e85?

Pump gas? I dont understand the need, 60lb's are good for 600-650hp so are you saying you plan to attempt 700+ hp on pump gas?

[BavarianLove]

No both, pump and corn syrup.

[milKt]

I dont understand the need,

The other day I asked my waitress to fill my glass of water to the very top, brimming. She asked, "Why? What is the need for a very full glass when a mostly full glass will satisfy your thirst?"

I answered, "because I'd like you to."

:eek3

[pbonsalb]

No both, pump and corn syrup.

The feds are dropping the ethanol subsidies. I was hoping E85 would spread. The nearest station to me is about 100 miles away. Now I am not sure there will be more.

[turbo325ii]

Pump gas? I dont understand the need, 60lb's are good for 600-650hp so are you saying you plan to attempt 700+ hp on pump gas?

I assume your talking bhp not whp...

[mcoupemindy]

I assume your talking bhp not whp...

I too think he was stating BHP.

At 3.5 bar, 60# injectors will flow 64.8074#/hr each.

Total flow of 388.8444#/hr @ 100% duty cycle. Take it down to 90% duty cycle and that gives you 349.95#/hr.

The BMW I-6 is incredibly efficient with a BSFC of .55 or less. At .55 BSFC and 90% injector duty, you'd get a total HP output of 636.2909 bhp. Assuming a typical 85% drivetrain loss, that gets you to 540.84whp. Anything higher would be putting the car at risk of a lean condition.

Running 100% duty cycle, you could get 706.98 bhp / 600.94 whp, but would potentially (well, most likely) be unsafe.

Now, back on subject, TRM is the shiznizzz.

[Z3speed4me]

<3 Math

[zemaestro]

But......what about the 80lb injectors for OBDI ?

[kenndoggy]

The feds are dropping the ethanol subsidies.


Any proof of this? That is the best news I've heard in years.

[mcoupemindy]

Any proof of this? That is the best news I've heard in years.

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=Ethanol+Subsidy+2012

[milKt]

But......what about the 80lb injectors for OBDI ?

:buttrock


Is there any word on tuning 80lbs. injectors for pump gas or e85?


Tell me you guys are tuning 80lbs.


+1 :shifty

-Mike


TRM Tuning "ochenta libras de crema".



McCoy, come on...

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu330/cthulhu19887/smileys/whistling2.gif

[cragg56]

I too think he was stating BHP.

At 3.5 bar, 60# injectors will flow 64.8074#/hr each.

Total flow of 388.8444#/hr @ 100% duty cycle. Take it down to 90% duty cycle and that gives you 349.95#/hr.

The BMW I-6 is incredibly efficient with a BSFC of .55 or less. At .55 BSFC and 90% injector duty, you'd get a total HP output of 636.2909 bhp. Assuming a typical 85% drivetrain loss, that gets you to 540.84whp. Anything higher would be putting the car at risk of a lean condition.

Running 100% duty cycle, you could get 706.98 bhp / 600.94 whp, but would potentially (well, most likely) be unsafe.

Now, back on subject, TRM is the shiznizzz.

Excuse my ignorance, but isn't that just the stock FP? If you are making 600hp wouldn't one need to run roughly 1.5 BAR of boost on our engines? So wouldn't fuel pressure be 3.5 BAR + 1.5 BAR = 5 BAR?

I swear there are a few people putting down close to or even slightly above 600whp on 60#'ers.

[mcoupemindy]

Excuse my ignorance, but isn't that just the stock FP? If you are making 600hp wouldn't one need to run roughly 1.5 BAR of boost on our engines? So wouldn't fuel pressure be 3.5 BAR + 1.5 BAR = 5 BAR?

I swear there are a few people putting down close to or even slightly above 600whp on 60#'ers.

It's a closed system when you step 1:1 with boost. 3.5 bar at 0 bar boost flows the same as 5.0 bar at 1.5 bar boost. You step your fuel pressure to combat the loss of flow due to the boost pressure on the spray side of the injector.

As the math shows, 600whp can be done with 60# injectors, but you're really pushing the duty cycle.

I would like to go into more detail, but let's keep this thread about TRM, and their awesomeness.

[BavarianLove]

No more e85 :(

[kenndoggy]

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=Ethanol+Subsidy+2012



Awesome!!!! +1 for Amurikah! Now if only we could vote in Ron Paul for POTUS, and get him to eliminate the EPA, which will eliminate the E10 (and the pending E15) mandate!!! :redspot:redspot:redspot:redspot

[TechnoM]

OBD2 80lb tunes will be shipping soon.
Oh God yes...
That is what I like to hear :buttrock

[AT]

Awesome!!!! +1 for Amurikah! Now if only we could vote in Ron Paul for POTUS, and get him to eliminate the EPA, which will eliminate the E10 (and the pending E15) mandate!!! :redspot:redspot:redspot:redspot

Sorry to kick your puppy, but...

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/ethanol-subsidies-not-gone-just-hidden-little-better

[techno550]

I too think he was stating BHP.

At 3.5 bar, 60# injectors will flow 64.8074#/hr each.

Total flow of 388.8444#/hr @ 100% duty cycle. Take it down to 90% duty cycle and that gives you 349.95#/hr.

The BMW I-6 is incredibly efficient with a BSFC of .55 or less. At .55 BSFC and 90% injector duty, you'd get a total HP output of 636.2909 bhp. Assuming a typical 85% drivetrain loss, that gets you to 540.84whp. Anything higher would be putting the car at risk of a lean condition.

Running 100% duty cycle, you could get 706.98 bhp / 600.94 whp, but would potentially (well, most likely) be unsafe.

Now, back on subject, TRM is the shiznizzz.
:)
The BSFC is awesome on these motors.
If you use a BSFC of .55 you are a bit off though. As a reference point, the 95 M3 was rated at 240 bhp, and came with 17 lb/hr injectors. If we assume they were sized for the application (and we know they don't run out on a stock motor, and we also know the motor makes the "rated" hp and then some) then we find a BSFC of 0.37 assuming 80% max duty cycle.

0.4 to 0.45 seems to be a better number to use just based on where we can "run out" of injector on certain applications.



But......what about the 80lb injectors for OBDI ?
eh, probably releasing this shortly.



Excuse my ignorance, but isn't that just the stock FP? If you are making 600hp wouldn't one need to run roughly 1.5 BAR of boost on our engines? So wouldn't fuel pressure be 3.5 BAR + 1.5 BAR = 5 BAR?
at 1.5 bar of intake manifold pressure, yes, fuel pressure is 3.5 + 1.5, but intake manifold pressure is 1.5 bar. So "what the injector sees" is still just that 3.5 bar. or 3.5 bar FP + 1.5 bar FP - 1.5 bar IMP.
The purpose of the FPR is to maintain a constant pressure differential between the rail and where it is spraying so that X milliseconds of injector on time is the same mass of fuel at any manifold pressure.



I swear there are a few people putting down close to or even slightly above 600whp on 60#'ers.
well above.

[BavarianLove]

Awesome!!!! +1 for Amurikah! Now if only we could vote in Ron Paul for POTUS, and get him to eliminate the EPA, which will eliminate the E10 (and the pending E15) mandate!!! :redspot:redspot:redspot:redspot

This shit has been giving me greif ever since it came out over here. I will be so happy when the mixed crap is gone. Although gas prices might go up even more :help

[mcoupemindy]

:)
The BSFC is awesome on these motors.
If you use a BSFC of .55 you are a bit off though. As a reference point, the 95 M3 was rated at 240 bhp, and came with 17 lb/hr injectors. If we assume they were sized for the application (and we know they don't run out on a stock motor, and we also know the motor makes the "rated" hp and then some) then we find a BSFC of 0.37 assuming 80% max duty cycle.

0.4 to 0.45 seems to be a better number to use just based on where we can "run out" of injector on certain applications.

You know me, and allowing for extra in everything. :buttrock Another popular tuner was hitting 100% injector duty cycle on an S52, so I calculated those dyno results backwards and got a .53 BSFC on that specific sample. We know that stock these cars run lean which would yield the .37 or .40 BSFC. Not saying it was tuned correctly however (as I'm not a tuner, and far from qualified to speak like that).

What's the easiest way to measure injector duty cycle on these engines? Let me know as I'd like to play around and measure it sometime.

p.s. You have a Z3 fuel pump carrier coming to you via UPS. XOXO.

[kenndoggy]

This shit has been giving me greif ever since it came out over here. I will be so happy when the mixed crap is gone. Although gas prices might go up even more :help



Taking away the subsidy doesn't take away the mandate. Thats why we all need to vote for Ron Pual 2012 :)

[turbo325ii]

Back to injector flow... With 60#'ers @ 85% duty, and .43bsfc were still only getting 712BHP, so with drive train loss, where does that leave us?(trying to guage based on WHP numbers) @ 90% duty cycle you can reach for the stars with 753BHP, but I would NEVER want to be on the edge like that...

Escpecially in an overboost situation, I would rather have injector cushion.

[milKt]

:stickoutt or a better boost controller/finger

[GG///M3]

Back to injector flow... With 60#'ers @ 85% duty, and .43bsfc were still only getting 712BHP, so with drive train loss, where does that leave us?(trying to guage based on WHP numbers) @ 90% duty cycle you can reach for the stars with 753BHP, but I would NEVER want to be on the edge like that...

Escpecially in an overboost situation, I would rather have injector cushion.


Cushion ='s comfort. :redspot

[turbo325ii]

:stickoutt or a better boost controller/finger
Ya, glad I dont have to worry about that anymore with my Otisfold!


Cushion ='s comfort. :redspot
Thats what I think

[milKt]

Ya, glad I dont have to worry about that anymore with my Otisfold!


Thats what I think

lolly

[pbonsalb]

You know me, and allowing for extra in everything. :buttrock Another popular tuner was hitting 100% injector duty cycle on an S52, so I calculated those dyno results backwards and got a .53 BSFC on that specific sample. We know that stock these cars run lean which would yield the .37 or .40 BSFC. Not saying it was tuned correctly however (as I'm not a tuner, and far from qualified to speak like that).

What's the easiest way to measure injector duty cycle on these engines? Let me know as I'd like to play around and measure it sometime.

p.s. You have a Z3 fuel pump carrier coming to you via UPS. XOXO.

I have used a good multimeter before to connect to an injector ground and a chassis ground to read the duty cycle. This is when I was testing to see if I was running out of injector while supercharged a few years ago.

With Ford 42s flowing more like 46 lbs at 3.5 bar, I was hitting 100% duty cycle and had to back off while testing a 6.00/2.80 pulley combination (with many other mods). I then tested a prototype 60 lb tune worth 65 lbs at 3.5 bar and was hitting 77% duty cycle in 4th gear. I then ran on the dyno with the 60 lb injectors and made 463 rwhp SAE (backed up by a dyno on a different dynojet later at 466 rwhp SAE).

Since 77% of 65 lbs (60 lb injectors) is about 50 lbs, I confirmed that I was running out of injector trying to do this with 46 lbs of fuel (42 lb injectors). This experiment is what causes me to question those centrifugal supercharger dynos with 42 lb injectors that are much over 425 rwhp. On the other hand, it was a conservative prototype tune and timing may have been reduced, making it less efficient. AFR were right around 12 and not pig rich.

Turbos can get more out of injectors since a belt driven blower is not consuming significant crank horsepower that is not reflected in rwhp. I'll guess 42s can support at least 475 rwhp turbocharged at 100% duty cycle. One person in the forums hit 500 rwhp, but suffered an engine failure not too long thereafter that may well be attributable to earlier lean running.

Staying reasonably far away from 100% duty cycle is wise. Temperature alone can make up to about a 4% difference in power. Altitude is worth 3% per 1000 feet. Tune your car at 5000 feet on a hot day at 100% duty cycle and drop to sea level in the winter and you will be in big trouble. Having something in reserve for boost variations is also helpful. Even though I have a good EBC, my boost can vary slightly depending on load and conditions.

[Z3speed4me]

Just for comparive purposes, my cars last run at 433whp on the superlow at max was 99% duty cyle on 42lb injectors, ya I know ahhhhh not good, thus why I dropped it down afterwards. Which is like 460ish on a dynojet.

[TechnoViolin]

Hm, I definitely need a tune but some people are recommending that I have the car tuned at a shop on the dyno vs. a custom tune based on mods.

Thoughts on this, FI gods?

[turbo325ii]

Forget that. Get a base tune from TRM, it will be close to deadnuts on. Then dyno, log and get revisions if necessary. WIN!

TRM has done so many tunes the base tune will be a good starting point, if not the final tune.

[TechnoViolin]

Forget that. Get a base tune from TRM, it will be close to deadnuts on. Then dyno, log and get revisions if necessary. WIN!

TRM has done so many tunes the base tune will be a good starting point, if not the final tune.

Yeah, I was eventually leaning towards that. Unfortunately, not now, but soon enough I will get one.

[BadBoostedBmwM3]

I too think he was stating BHP.

At 3.5 bar, 60# injectors will flow 64.8074#/hr each.

Total flow of 388.8444#/hr @ 100% duty cycle. Take it down to 90% duty cycle and that gives you 349.95#/hr.

The BMW I-6 is incredibly efficient with a BSFC of .55 or less. At .55 BSFC and 90% injector duty, you'd get a total HP output of 636.2909 bhp. Assuming a typical 85% drivetrain loss, that gets you to 540.84whp. Anything higher would be putting the car at risk of a lean condition.

Running 100% duty cycle, you could get 706.98 bhp / 600.94 whp, but would potentially (well, most likely) be unsafe.

Now, back on subject, TRM is the shiznizzz.

I understand the math, but how do you explain Luke G's numbers? He made 604whp and had a little room left. Mike said the 803maf would max out right before the injectors.

[mcoupemindy]

I understand the math, but how do you explain Luke G's numbers? He made 604whp and had a little room left. Mike said the 803maf would max out right before the injectors.

I'm conservative with BSFC. Get a lower BSFC, and the game changes. See post #50 for an expert opinion.

[BadBoostedBmwM3]

I'm conservative with BSFC. Get a lower BSFC, and the game changes. See post #50 for an expert opinion.

Actually, after I posted my reply, I did read it. I'm following you. It just seems they are exceptions to the rule.

[pbonsalb]

I have never seen any official BSFC numbers for our motors, but from my rough calculations, they do way better than the old internet rule of thumb of 0.55 to 0.65 for forced induction motors. I would not be surprised if they are at 0.50 , which means that 388 lbs of fuel could be good for 794 hp or 650 rwhp with 15% drivetrain loss.

[e36ALPINE]

I have never seen any official BSFC numbers for our motors, but from my rough calculations, they do way better than the old internet rule of thumb of 0.55 to 0.65 for forced induction motors. I would not be surprised if they are at 0.50 , which means that 388 lbs of fuel could be good for 794 hp or 650 rwhp with 15% drivetrain loss.

Does hardware itself, (manifold,turbo, high flowing exhaust, intake piping size, temp of the motor itself while running, etc) change the BSFC of the "motor" ?? Or i guess in the same thought, change the amount of fuel a motor needs to make "x" amount of power? If that's the case besides the people running the mass produced kits, everyone seems to have one thing or another different from the next guy which would make all these calculations useless unless you know exactly what your particular motor's BSFC is.

[kenndoggy]

Does hardware itself, (manifold,turbo, high flowing exhaust, intake piping size, temp of the motor itself while running, etc) change the BSFC of the "motor" ?? Or i guess in the same thought, change the amount of fuel a motor needs to make "x" amount of power? If that's the case besides the people running the mass produced kits, everyone seems to have one thing or another different from the next guy which would make all these calculations useless unless you know exactly what your particular motor's BSFC is.


Yes.

[milKt]

TRM Tuning is happy to announce our first ever sale on tuning software, now until February 10th!

15% off any of our software and software packages both OBDI and OBDII

Some examples

OBDI blow-through package normally $1500, now on sale for $1275.

OBDI Custom Supercharging tunes, normally $649.99, now $552.46.

As always our software comes with full support.

Sale prices are active on our website and please direct any technical questions to

info@trmtuning.com


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/ffj/sumo.gif

[pbonsalb]

Does hardware itself, (manifold,turbo, high flowing exhaust, intake piping size, temp of the motor itself while running, etc) change the BSFC of the "motor" ?? Or i guess in the same thought, change the amount of fuel a motor needs to make "x" amount of power? If that's the case besides the people running the mass produced kits, everyone seems to have one thing or another different from the next guy which would make all these calculations useless unless you know exactly what your particular motor's BSFC is.

Sure, a GT4094R on a Steedspeed manifold with a 3.5 inch exhaust with a target AFR of 12.0:1 will make 600 rwhp more efficiently than a GT35R on a T3 Spa with a 2.5 inch exhaust and a target AFR of 11.0:1. But apart from ridiculously restrictive systems for the power made, the boosted M/S5x seems to have better BSFC than the general 0.55 to 0.65 rule of thumb for boosted motors.

[highboostingm3]

Good technical information. :eatpop:

However...a lot of justification in order to NOT to go OBDI 80lber. :shifty

Let the OBD2 80lber battle...BEGIN! :devillook