Removing the transmission. Hung up on starter dowel?

[FFR5445]

I am in the process of removing the manual transmission from my 96 328. I have all the bellhousing bolts out and the 2 starter bolts out (those were not fun). The transmission is separated from the engine by about 3/4 of an inch but it wont come out any more. It appears to be hung up on the starter. I see there is a dowel that I think is holding it up. There is no room to get a decent pry bar or even a light in there. Any ideas to help me out here?

[flyfishvt]

You need to pull the starter back out of the bell housing. Its not fun but Ive done it twice. You may have to slide the tranny back into place then get a good sized screw driver and use it to help you wiggle the starter out. don't forget the bolts that hold on that tin shield to the bell housing. Damn I always forget those.

[adxss]

I have done this a few times and always seem to get the top of trans hung up on the firewall and the drive spline. First, you have to tip the engine up in front without pulling any hoses or cables out. Then, you have to wiggle it just right so it can drop down and slide out without putting weight on the spline. That could ruin the rear seal, among other things.

[bremms]

Just did this.. From underneath you can grab the starter and keep wiggling it up and down, side to side and it will come loose. Swivel socket and two 12 inch extensions will make the bolts easy.

[FFR5445]

Thanks for the replies.

I can't get that starter to move. Tried it several times now. I tried every screwdriver and prybar I have. I sprayed some penetrant on it to hopefully loosen it up overnight. I'm reaching up from the driver side control arm. I see no other way to access it.

How many bolts are there for the steel gasket shield thing? I only remember removing one. It is loose and seems to pivot around that starter dowel.

The trans is stuck 3/4 inch away from the engine. I can't get it go back together either. Not sure why. I'm working by myself but I have a bottle jack on the front of the engine to tilt it back and a floor jack to hold the trans.

Looking at this picture:
http://pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/101-Projects-43-Tranny-Removal/Pic3-01.jpg
What is the tab right between to 2 yellow arrows? That is where the dowel is correct? Why does it look like the steel gasket crosses right where the dowel should go?

[bremms]

Unless one of the bolts is still in there you should be able to loosen the starter.
Mine wasn't easy, but really pull and push up and down with your hand while grabbing the starter it should start to come out.

Only one bolt holding in the big metal plate.

[EurOnly]

I had the same problem while doing my swap. I just stood the engine upright and kicked the tranny and it finally came off.

[FFR5445]

"stood the engine upright" What does that mean?

I just spent another hour and a half trying to get it out. Still stuck. I was able to get the transmission back to the engine (thinking that would give me more stability).

The starter has a small gap from the transmission. I can see the dowel, there is about a 1/8" gap. I am able to get a screwdriver in there and pry. I pried VERY HARD for how much room is available. So hard that I actually chipped a small corner of aluminum from the starter. I also tried grabbing the starter and moving it up and down. It just shakes the whole car.

Am I missing something? What is at the other end of the starter besides the electrical connections? The starter is only bolted to the transmission, correct? What if I unhooked the electrical connections and tried to remove it still attached to the transmission? Is there room for that?

Sorry for all the questions. Just getting very frustrated.

Here's a picture from when the transmission was still separated. Not a very good picture but you can sort of see the dowel there.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i125/jonlee99/IMG_4000.jpg

[pbonsalb]

My guess is either the starter dowel, which can be a real pain to loosen up after a decade of corrosion, or you are missing a bolt on the bellhousing. There is one little one that is on the lower passenger side and accessed from the engine side, not the back side.

[FFR5445]

Well I'm proud to say, I finally got it out! Just ending up prying the heck out of it and she finally came down. Now that it's out I see that bloody starter dowel is bent! Which maybe explains my issue.

[flyfishvt]

That dowel is just a small cylinder that's inserted into a hole. I doubt its bent. Its probably just starting to fall out. I bet you can pull it right out and insert it correctly.

[BMWdriverwanted]

Glad you got it off and glad you let us know. I for one am so appreciative of people who finish a story so others know what to do.

Now, lets get er done! :redspot ....... :D

[18rabbit]

I would cut that shit off and just rely on the starter bolts to secure the starter to the transmission.

[BMWdriverwanted]

I would cut that shit off and just rely on the starter bolts to secure the starter to the transmission.

:nono

[flyfishvt]

After reading this again I think I was wrong on the dowel pin thing. I was thinking of the ones that the bell housing uses to line up on the engine. Sorry.

[silvabmdub]

my good friend who is and has been a certified bmw mechanic for over 10 years told me when i was having the same problem to grab an extension or something that will reach it and hammer on the thickest spot. It worked quite well with no damage done to the starter or tranny

[Joshh]

It also helps to remove the IM if you didn't already do that. While it's more work you can actually get to all that stuff very easily with it off.

[Spicolii]

my good friend who is and has been a certified bmw mechanic for over 10 years told me when i was having the same problem to grab an extension or something that will reach it and hammer on the thickest spot. It worked quite well with no damage done to the starter or tranny
where on the trans was he hitting? I know you said the thickest spot but are you talking about where the trans and starter meet right next to the starter? The spot that is difficult to get too on the top? I know this thread has been over for a while but im struggling.
Thanks

[rajicase]

Removing the intake manifold makes this a non-issue..

People don't like doing it cause it adds an extra 30 minutes on to the project.. But it gives complete access to the starter. And from this thread it seems like OP spent at least 2 hours hung up on this...

Just a thought.

[Chris323ic]

Put antisieze, and preferably a new dowel, before bolting up the housing.

[Spicolii]

has anyone tried to put the two starter bolts semi in to the threads on the trans and then using the 35in extension bang on them to get the starter dowel out? My mechanic told me he has done this several times but i want to make sure someone else has done it before i jump into it. Any thoughts?

[QuinnClark]

Pull the intake manifold off then tilt the engine down... Just had that problem doing a 5 speed conversion, a little painful but it slid right off

[e36fiend]

Removing the intake manifold makes this a non-issue..

People don't like doing it cause it adds an extra 30 minutes on to the project.. But it gives complete access to the starter. And from this thread it seems like OP spent at least 2 hours hung up on this...

Just a thought.

Agreed. Pulling the manifold is not nearly the chore everyone makes it out to be.

[35nhma]

same story here. i finally got the bell housing to separate from the block but it got stuck at 1/2".

i was able to loosen my starter from the locating dowel using a 30" piece of wood and a deadblow hammer after triple checking the two starter bolts were out, and reading this thread to gain confidence that this was my problem, i started tapping with the deadblow.

it took some decent blows to develop a small crack of separation. you are tapping on a solid casting of aluminum on the starter ... i felt reasonably confident i wasn't damaging anyting. at some point in this process i liberally applied kroil and waited 30 minutes. i also shimmed between the bell housing and the block so all of my force was directed at the starter.

in retrospect, it seems like it would be good to separate the starter from the bellhousing when the housing is still sitting against the block. other clutch DIY's don't mention this step ... must not be an inherent problem.


it's difficult to see in these photos, but hopefully this helps.
725854


starter separated from bell house. you can clearly see the corrosion on the locating dowel / pin.
725855