Kosei k1 wheels

[ttechnoholic]

ok guys, i currently have stock contours 7.5 all around :( and are sick of them since i dont have the staggered set up... so i finally came across these wheels called Kosei..LOVE THEM (i attached 3 pictures for people who are not familiar with them) anyways, the pictures are great example since i have the same arctic silver color although the only difference i'm running stock suspension and clear rear-tail lights. anyways, i recently was forced to get tires for my contours since they were really worn out.. so i got new hankook evo v12's 235/45/17 for front and 245/45/17 in rear which i have not installed yet since my rear ones are ok for now.. so my question is since i have 235/45/17 how will they look on the kosei wheel, apparently they're 8.5 inches wide and i'm afraid of the stretched tire look that i'm trying to avoid.. will it look fine? and also, what kind of spacers will i need, along with coil-overs in the future? i just want a clean look and trying avoid $ camber plates $ and what is the approximate drop on the pictures shown, to me it looks perfect i really need to know. thank you for the HELP!

[TXRFan]

Your car looks like a clone of mine, right down to the roll bar and the Schroth's.

BTW, you don't really want a staggered setup unless you really like how it looks. The cars handling is more neutral with square.

Kosei K1's are a very popular, economical, lightweight wheel for the tracking crowd. 235/40-17 work well for a square setup. I've also run V12 in 245/40-17 all around. Currently my track tires are 235/40-17 Dunlop Star Specs on a spare set of wheels. Any of these tires look just fine on the K1. The Hankook V12s tend to look narrow for their size.

I'm running Bilstein PSS9s and I can run any of the above sizes without spacers. Closest clearance is to the strut up front. I'm running about -2.5 deg of camber in the rear. I could see a fender clearance issue in the rear if you have less.

You should be able to figure out if your tires will fit by using your existing set(s) and measuring. You are concerned about tire tread width, diameter and offset. When things were close, I always brought a couple of extra tires with me to the tire shop so that I could get the car home if I needed spacers after a new size was mounted up.

-Mike

[jayjaya29]

Both tire sizes will work. Hell I'm running 225s on my Koseis right now.

[pbonsalb]

235/40/17 will fit 8.5 inch Kosei. Look up the specs for recommended wheel rim width at Tire Rack for that tire and size. Hopefully, your rears are 245/40 and not 245/45. 45 series would be tall in that width.

Worry about spacers later when you go wider up front or add coilovers. Kosei don't fit well with all spacers. They fit fine with some. Has to do with the chamfer on the Kosei wheel, apparently. I use Turner hub extenders with 10 mm spacers, TCK SA coilovers, and 17 x 8.5 Kosei with 255/40/17s.

[jeremy5000]

I've got 245/40/17 Hankooks on my Koseis and needed like a 5mm or 3mm spacer to clear my TCK coilovers... don't know why you'd get 45 series tires though:confused

[NeilM]

I've got 245/40/17 Hankooks on my Koseis and needed like a 5mm or 3mm spacer to clear my TCK coilovers.

That's also function of front spring length and ride height setting (as well as tire size and wheel offset). With a 6" or shorter spring the lower spring perch will normally sit high enough that tire clearance is not an issue. I still have clearance with 255/40-17 tires on Koseis.

@OP: Bear in mind that the Kosei is intended as a lightweight track wheel. Tire Rack will advise you against street use. From an appearance standpoint it neither come with nor accepts a center cap.

Neil
96 M3 - 8 x Kosei K1 wheels.

[ttechnoholic]

yeah i guess the 45 tallness would be an issue :((( i didnt know.. and what do you mean ? the stock center caps dont fit ?! :O

[jeremy5000]

That's also function of front spring length and ride height setting (as well as tire size and wheel offset). With a 6" or shorter spring the lower spring perch will normally sit high enough that tire clearance is not an issue. I still have clearance with 255/50-17 tires on Koseis.

@OP: Bear in mind that the Kosei is intended as a lightweight track wheel. Tire Rack will advise you against street use. From an appearance standpoint it neither come with nor accepts a center cap.

Neil
96 M3 - 8 x Kosei K1 wheels.
I just don't see the point of running such a tall tire... wouldn't it poorly affect gearing for track purposes?

yeah i guess the 45 tallness would be an issue :((( i didnt know.. and what do you mean ? the stock center caps dont fit ?! :O
No center caps... it is a track dedicated wheel, but I kinda like the look of them. If you want a wheel solely for looks though, find something a little more DD oriented since these wheels have been said to not be so strong. However I have yet to bend/crack (knock on wood) one but I've only been using them for ~6months.

[NeilM]

I just don't see the point of running such a tall tire... wouldn't it poorly affect gearing for track purposes?

I do that instead of buying a set of 22" rims. With spinners.:stickoutt

(It was a typo—should have read 255/40-17. I've gone back and fixed it.)

Neil

[jayjaya29]

Stock center caps do not fit, you can get Turner hub extenders for the fronts but I havent found a solution for center caps in the rear.

[ttechnoholic]

im not sure if i want them without the caps :(( the road in my area are good, hopefully i'll have no issues..

[jeremy5000]

im not sure if i want them without the caps :(( the road in my area are good, hopefully i'll have no issues..
If you search, people have put BMW caps in with some modifications...

[ttechnoholic]

If you search, people have put BMW caps in with some modifications...
i'll research but if anyone knows please let me know how to get bmw wheel caps on kosei k1's :)

[jeremy5000]

i'll research but if anyone knows please let me know how to get bmw wheel caps on kosei k1's :)
Found it Here...
(http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=474336)

[jayjaya29]

I have my front hubs painted black, its barely noticeable without centers.

[ttechnoholic]

Found it Here...
(http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=474336)

thank you! so you guys think i'll have issues with 45 height in rear? even with stock suspension? and what if i were too lower it on H&R coilovers in the future? :devillook

[crums440]

i have koseis and i have no rubbing issues at all, and they are a sweet wheel.
i have 235/40/17's on mine, you can see how maybe you wouldnt go any smaller for stretch purposes, i found that it was just the right amount.
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/CRUMS440/shoot%201/DSC_0025.jpg?t=1318211645
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/CRUMS440/shoot%201/DSC_0024.jpg?t=1318211621

[jeremy5000]

thank you! so you guys think i'll have issues with 45 height in rear? even with stock suspension? and what if i were too lower it on H&R coilovers in the future? :devillook
Some info on that here...
(http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=161255)

[ttechnoholic]

Some info on that here...
(http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=161255)

that was helpful.. although im still not sure about the 45's .. is it only 5mm difference i just cant see why it would be an issue? i dont care about handling it wouldnt be much different since i dont track my car... i just though it would be more comfortable and less stress(not as stiff) on the kosei k1. please help will rolling fenders do any help ?

[pbonsalb]

Aspect ratio is the percentage of treadwidth. It is not mm. The difference in diameter between a 245/40/17 and a 245/45/17 is about 1 inch. On a lowered car, you may have issues.

The difference between a 235/40/17 such as was fitted stock to 95 M3s and a 235/45/17 is also about an inch, but the difference between a 225/45/17 such as was fitted stock to the front of 96-99 M3s and a 235/45/17 is only about 1/3 of an inch. You will probably get away with it at stock ride height.

The general rule of thumb is to stay within about 3% of the stock tire diameter.

[ttechnoholic]

Aspect ratio is the percentage of treadwidth. It is not mm. The difference in diameter between a 245/40/17 and a 245/45/17 is about 1 inch. On a lowered car, you may have issues.

The difference between a 235/40/17 such as was fitted stock to 95 M3s and a 235/45/17 is also about an inch, but the difference between a 225/45/17 such as was fitted stock to the front of 96-99 M3s and a 235/45/17 is only about 1/3 of an inch. You will probably get away with it at stock ride height.

The general rule of thumb is to stay within about 3% of the stock tire diameter.

that makes somethings clear now :D ! here is a thing... i am running stock suspention although it looks lower in rear -.- so when i drop it on coilovers i just want to drop the front like 1.5 inch 2? but leave the rear all the way up since it's already lower than front

[jayjaya29]

so when i drop it on coilovers i just want to drop the front like 1.5 inch 2? but leave the rear all the way up since it's already lower than front

http://i.imgur.com/HIKSX.gif

Your rear springs are sagging.

[ttechnoholic]

Your rear springs are sagging.

ok if that's the case it's a good idea to upgrade to coilovers correct ? it'll be just right any opinions ?

[jayjaya29]

Depends on how much you want to spend. But coilovers are nice due to their adjustability. There are many good options, depends on $$ and what you do with the car.

[pbonsalb]

If you are putting 45 series tires on your car, you don't need coilovers. If you do buy coilovers, I would recommend good ones rather than cheap ones. I have coilovers, but only so I could increase the spring rate without sacrificing much on the ride, due to the shortened struts and shocks used with the coilovers. My ride height is about the same as when I ran Koni with H&R Sport springs. For most people, I recommend a full bushing and mount replacement and Konis with H&R Sports. You can find pictures of cars with Konis and H&R Sports and they look great. You can also buy rear ride height adjusters if you want, but hopefully you are not trying to make your E36 look like a poorly hotrodded 1970s Camaro. You will just detract from the handling even more than you already have with the 45 series tires that you installed to compensate for your trashed suspension bushings and worn out shocks.

[jeremy5000]

If you are putting 45 series tires on your car, you don't need coilovers. If you do buy coilovers, I would recommend good ones rather than cheap ones. I have coilovers, but only so I could increase the spring rate without sacrificing much on the ride, due to the shortened struts and shocks used with the coilovers. My ride height is about the same as when I ran Koni with H&R Sport springs. For most people, I recommend a full bushing and mount replacement and Konis with H&R Sports. You can find pictures of cars with Konis and H&R Sports and they look great. You can also buy rear ride height adjusters if you want, but hopefully you are not trying to make your E36 look like a poorly hotrodded 1970s Camaro. You will just detract from the handling even more than you already have with the 45 series tires that you installed to compensate for your trashed suspension bushings and worn out shocks.
Pretty much what he said. If you do coilovers don't cheap out. Get new bushings, shock mounts, and camber plates, and more importantly good coilovers. If you don't want to spend that type of cash, buy used or just buy some Konis and H&R Sports.

[ttechnoholic]

If you are putting 45 series tires on your car, you don't need coilovers. If you do buy coilovers, I would recommend good ones rather than cheap ones. I have coilovers, but only so I could increase the spring rate without sacrificing much on the ride, due to the shortened struts and shocks used with the coilovers. My ride height is about the same as when I ran Koni with H&R Sport springs. For most people, I recommend a full bushing and mount replacement and Konis with H&R Sports. You can find pictures of cars with Konis and H&R Sports and they look great. You can also buy rear ride height adjusters if you want, but hopefully you are not trying to make your E36 look like a poorly hotrodded 1970s Camaro. You will just detract from the handling even more than you already have with the 45 series tires that you installed to compensate for your trashed suspension bushings and worn out shocks.

okay, were would you recomend to get the coilovers from? or where can i get the koni's with sport h&r's you're talking about for good price? lets say i were to change all bushing and go with a "lowering spring" option rather than coilovers like you said.. my budget is about 1,250 + or - ... and H&R coilovers is somewhere around there

[pbonsalb]

I like Ground Control Track/School, TCK SA and AST 4100, all with springs in the 400-500/500-600 range. Look for a used set since all will be over your budget. Or buy Konis with H&R Sports wherever you find them for a good price, new or used. I think Konis + H&R Sports is a great combination. A full bushing and mount job is a lot of work, but brings the suppleness back into the suspension. I would not stiffen the shocks and springs without doing the bushings and mounts.

[ttechnoholic]

I like Ground Control Track/School, TCK SA and AST 4100, all with springs in the 400-500/500-600 range. Look for a used set since all will be over your budget. Or buy Konis with H&R Sports wherever you find them for a good price, new or used. I think Konis + H&R Sports is a great combination. A full bushing and mount job is a lot of work, but brings the suppleness back into the suspension. I would not stiffen the shocks and springs without doing the bushings and mounts.

i agree.. i'm gonna look up koni's with H&R's i dont like buying used.. how much would it cost me to change the bushing & mounts all around

this is what i found.. any help ? http://www.modbargains.com/BMW-E36-Suspension.htm

[pbonsalb]

You can buy the springs and shocks anywhere you find them. Search and compare prices. It might be nice to buy from a place that provides some support if you have any questions, like Turner or Bimmerworld, but also check the vendors in the for sale forum here. There is one that sometimes has great deals on Konis.

For bushings and mounts, there are a lot of parts. There are about 19 bushings total, front and rear. Front control arm (2), rear trailing arm (2), inner upper control arm (2), outer upper control arm (2), inner lower control arm (2), outer lower control arm (2), differential (3), and subframe (4).

For mounts, there are engine (2), tranny (2), and upper rear shock (2).

There are other parts that are often part of a driveline and suspension overhaul, like the driveshaft guibo (rubber connector near transmission), front strut upper mounts (2), driveshaft center support bearing, rear swabar bushings (2) and outer endlinks (2), front swaybar bushings (2) and endlinks (2), and front control arms (2)-- the ball joints develop play eventually and are supposed to be nonreplaceable although a few people are now attempting to replace just the ball joints with the new Myle HD joints.

It is expensive to buy all these parts and there is a lot of labor involved in installing them. There are also projects that pop up along the way -- like maybe new parking brake cables when you pull the rear trailing arms, replacing the wheel bearings since you have the suspension disassembled and everything is as accessible as it will ever be, and reinforcing the rear subframe in the swaybar tab mounting area, the front subframe in the engine mount area, and the rear trailing arm pocket area. Reinforcement kits are sold by Bimmerworld, Turner, AKG and possibly others.

It is a 12-16 year old car. If you want it to drive and handle like new, you have to maintain it. The maintenance costs are for a $40k car, not for the $7k car that you bought used. The good news is that if you do all this, you should not have to do any suspension work again for years.

I have not added up all the prices, but I would expect to spend at least $2,000 on parts including shocks and springs, and at least 2 days of labor at whatever the rate is. This is a great DIY project if you can find someone to help. Not recommended if you don't have a lot of tools and are not a fairly accomplished DIYer.

Turner sells a package of the 19 bushings, but I don't know if you save any money. Check Turner, Bimmerworld, RMEuropean.com, autohausaz.com, pelicanparts.com, and the vendors in the for sale forum.

You can also do work piecemeal. Find a very good BMW shop and pay them an hour of labor to inspect your car and tell you exactly what needs to be done now and what can wait. It usually costs more and takes longer to do work piecemeal, but sometimes it is the only way.

Putting stiffer shocks and springs on a clapped out suspension is usually just an exercise in frustration since the car will bang around more on anything but really smooth roads and you will simply stress more the weak links already present. And do something like buy 45 series tires to try to soften the ride. These cars rode beautifully when new -- BMW's tire choices were hardly harsh riding.

[Storamin]

I have had Kosei K1's for quite some time now and am a big fan.

However, getting them can be an issue. I needed to replace 1 wheel last November and I had to wait until March. It wasn't an issue for me since I garage the car in the winter, but it would be a different story if that had happened from May until September.

[ttechnoholic]

I have had Kosei K1's for quite some time now and am a big fan.

However, getting them can be an issue. I needed to replace 1 wheel last November and I had to wait until March. It wasn't an issue for me since I garage the car in the winter, but it would be a different story if that had happened from May until September.

how come ? what happen to the wheel and why did you have to wait ? dnt they sell them online ?

[das borgen]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/316996_10150337205801497_658051496_8446353_1938349 190_n.jpg

pic related

[jeremy5000]

I have had Kosei K1's for quite some time now and am a big fan.

However, getting them can be an issue. I needed to replace 1 wheel last November and I had to wait until March. It wasn't an issue for me since I garage the car in the winter, but it would be a different story if that had happened from May until September.
Mine came less than a week after I ordered them...

[Storamin]

Mine came less than a week after I ordered them...

When I ordered the original 4, they came in no time from Tirerack.

But getting the replacement, the wheel was on back order for months.

Considering that these wheels are weaker & have a decent chance of getting bent, I would say this is something to consider.