Question about twin screw

[Abis328]

I've been looking around at positive displacement for a little bit and so far I've found two twin screws. One made by Eurosport and sold/tuned by TRM and another for the e46 sold/tuned by ESS tuning. My car is a 96 328is which is a e36 to my knowledge and has what I'm assuming is the m52b28 motor. The Eurosport TS is almost 12k which seems really steep. The ESS TS is offered for the e46 328i but it classes 98 328s as e46 and I thought that they had the same eninge. Assuming that they do would that system fit my car? It's considerably cheaper anoud 7k for the stage 2 version.

TL;DR

E46 328 (98 version) does it have the same engine as a 96 328is, if so would a super charger for the 98 version then intheory fit on my 96.

Links for refference

TRM's (http://eurosporthighperformance.com/supercharger.html)(takes you to the eurosport page where the price is listed as lower)
ESS's (http://www.esstuning.com/products/M52TUB28-Twin-Screw-Stage-2-%28TS2%29-.html)

[GG///M3]

I've been looking around at positive displacement for a little bit and so far I've found two twin screws. One made by Eurosport and sold/tuned by TRM and another for the e46 sold/tuned by ESS tuning. My car is a 96 328is which is a e36 to my knowledge and has what I'm assuming is the m52b28 motor. The Eurosport TS is almost 12k which seems really steep. The ESS TS is offered for the e46 328i but it classes 98 328s as e46 and I thought that they had the same eninge. Assuming that they do would that system fit my car? It's considerably cheaper anoud 7k for the stage 2 version.

TL;DR

E46 328 (98 version) does it have the same engine as a 96 328is, if so would a super charger for the 98 version then intheory fit on my 96.

Links for refference

TRM's (http://eurosporthighperformance.com/supercharger.html)(takes you to the eurosport page where the price is listed as lower)
ESS's (http://www.esstuning.com/products/M52TUB28-Twin-Screw-Stage-2-%28TS2%29-.html)

I believe someone is selling a used AA kit in the FI for sale section.

[Abis328]

I believe someone is selling a used AA kit in the FI for sale section.

I don't like puchasing used parts especially for FI, but I'll take a look.

[GG///M3]

I don't like puchasing used parts especially for FI, but I'll take a look.

That is understandable. The price of a new TS kit is going to be about the same price as a turbo kit. Are you obd2?

[milKt]

Eurosport/TRM is the way/light,

especially with the new 2.1L compressor... 450whp/400wtq + on the horizon

[GG///M3]

Eurosport/TRM is the way/light,

especially with the new 2.1L compressor... 450whp/400wtq + on the horizon

For those who seek Twin Screwing yes, but what is the limit on power that can be had with said setup. We all know of the instant tractor pulling torque supplied by the TS power. I will say this that Sc setups are far easier to deal with then turbo setups.

[Abis328]

That is understandable. The price of a new TS kit is going to be about the same price as a turbo kit. Are you obd2?

Yeah I'm OBD2, I'm not looking for the crazy HP you can get from a turbo though because once you start that it's like well whats the next week part in the driveline we can break. I'm just looking for loads of instant torque.


Eurosport/TRM is the way/light,

especially with the new 2.1L compressor... 450whp/400wtq + on the horizon

That's what I'm sayin! I was just wondering if you can use the ESS one though and maybe fit a huge pulley on it to increase the power.

[GG///M3]

Yeah I'm OBD2, I'm not looking for the crazy HP you can get from a turbo though because once you start that it's like well whats the next week part in the driveline we can break. I'm just looking for loads of instant torque.



That's what I'm sayin! I was just wondering if you can use the ESS one though and maybe fit a huge pulley on it to increase the power.


I hear you good sir. I would contact Trm since they are selling the units it seems. I wouldn't try adapting a ESS kit meant to work for a m54 unless I missed something and they started making kits for m50 based motors.

[milKt]

That's what I'm sayin! I was just wondering if you can use the ESS one though and maybe fit a huge pulley on it to increase the power.

I don't have experience with the ESS stuff.
I don't know if anyone has fabbed up a smaller pulley to have it spin faster.

You can be the first :paranoid: with much sweat and tears
OR
you can follow the light.

[ZHP]

Stick to a kit designed and built for your motor. I believe the intake ports in the M52 head are a rounded off rectangular shape. The intake ports in the M54 head are "D" shaped so the ESS intake manifold runners won't be properly port matched to the M52 head. There's also the issue of tuning as ESS doesn't have, and isn't likely to create, a tune for your older DME. There are likely other issues but those 2 should be enough to disuade you from trying to modify the ESS TS for use on an M52.

[Abis328]

Stick to a kit designed and built for your motor. I believe the intake ports in the M52 head are a rounded off rectangular shape. The intake ports in the M54 head are "D" shaped so the ESS intake manifold runners won't be properly port matched to the M52 head. There's also the issue of tuning as ESS doesn't have, and isn't likely to create, a tune for your older DME. There are likely other issues but those 2 should be enough to disuade you from trying to modify the ESS TS for use on an M52.

Ahh, thank you for clearly that up! I just wasn't sure whether or not it was doable, and it certainly sounds like it's way beyond the "doable" area atleast for the ammount of work that you would have to do.

Side not anybody have any information about what happens when you put a different pully on the TRM kit? It's already making insane ammounts of power as is.

Since it looks like the TRM is the way to go if you guys might be able to help me out with a check list of stuff to get before spending money on it?

-Clutch, Flywheel, PressurePlate etc what kits would hold up to that power while still being usable in a daily driver I.E no ceramic pucks and stuff like that haha
-Driveshaft? Needs to be reinforced or anything?
-Rear end? Should I upgrade to a M3 lsd or purchase a brand new one from diffsonline? If I get a new one what would be a realistic ratio
-Transmission? Will my five speed hold that kind of power or should I look into the e46 6speed swap as well?
-I know its not making much boost but should I build the engine like you would for a turbo kit to improve longevity? or should I just rebuild it anyway and not mess with the compression ratio?

Sorry for all the questions:eyecrazy

[milKt]

I used (and have a nice mileage set available for purchase)
UUC Cerametallic Clutch and Fidanza Flywheel w/ my Eurosport kit.

A good driveshaft (fresh center bearing, fresh guibo and good u-joints) would be helpful.

Purchase an LSD diff, yes (also for sale, 3.38 LSD)

Your ZF trans will hold fine.

[GGray]

Eurosport/TRM is the way/light,

especially with the new 2.1L compressor... 450whp/400wtq + on the horizon

pretty sure they are gone...


TRM turbo kit with a SPA5000 turbo for the money can't beat it...

Turbo's are fine for daily use. the 2.8 loves boost of any kind!

[pbonsalb]

The only twinscrew kit available, or rather that may be available since I am not sure the new Eurosport kit is on any cars yet, is the Eurosport. The price I have seen before of $11k is too high, but I have also read of introductory pricing in the $8k range. It looks to be improved over the old kit in that the blower has more potential, but I have not seen any dyno testing or tuning results that take advantage of that potential. You do get the most torque at 2000 rpm, but you do not get the most torque overall because the twinscrew drags on the crank and saps some of the power it makes. I think it is a great choice for a 3.2L M3 engine that is used as a daily driver. It will make that motor feel like a V8. I think the little 2.8L will struggle more under the burden of the twinscrew dragging on its crank and that the match is not as good, though it will still be a fun car.

For the 2.8L, I would go turbo. Torque will come in little later, but a lot more of it will come in. On the street, I find the turbo power very accessible in daily driving and the off boost power sufficient. The question is whether you need the added torque from 2500 to 3800 or whether you want a lot more right after that. Either is more entertaining than the centrifugal supercharger.

Here is the ES dyno for a 2.8L twinscrew showing a peak of 277 lbs rwtq at 5000 rpm with about 235 lbs at 2500 rpm and 250 lbs at 3000 rpm:

http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com/pdfs/TS_2.8L_Uli.pdf

Here is the Techniques Tuning dyno for a 2.8L turbo showing a peak of 354 lbs rwtq at 4200 rpm but only 180 lbs at 2500 and 200 lbs at 3000 lbs. At 3800 rpm, the TT turbo equals the peak torque of the ES twinscrew and then substantially surpasses it.

http://www.techniquetuning.com/e36328turbo.html

[milKt]

either is more entertaining than the centrifugal supercharger.

qft

[GG///M3]

The OP wants the TS. Now that is settled I think the OP should also get a set of s52 cams, and will add a nice bump the power of the 2.8 TS setup. OP let us know how everything turns out. Sometimes I wish I had another e36 to TS.

[Abis328]

The OP wants the TS. Now that is settled I think the OP should also get a set of s52 cams, and will add a nice bump the power of the 2.8 TS setup. OP let us know how everything turns out. Sometimes I wish I had another e36 to TS.

I'm not sure whether I wanna purchase now or later. Currently I'm commuting two and from college on I-70 and 695 which is not a bad ride as is but I already fly as is. I'm enrolled in automotive classes which is obviously a huge plus for getting it now and then putting it in my self or using my car as a example car in class even better :buttrock but with one ticket already I can't imagine what a lead foot I would have with that thing. I already have the money put away for the TS, allocated 3K for a nice clutch setup and another 2K for a cam kit. But I don't wanna drive my insurance up until I'm out and have a better paying job.

I guess the real question is does it make sense to purchase now and just let it sit around or wait to purchase :eyecrazy


Edit, forgot to address the TS vs the TT Turbo :

The problem I have with a turbo system (it's a personal preference and a bit of fact) is that no matter how small the turbo there is lag time. To get any decent power you need a bigger turbo or more bost. Either way both increase the time you need to get there and then once you're there how long are you at peak torque or HP relative to the speed you're at. One a racetrack a turbo will trump a supercharger in every way. Gets up to peak power and then virtually stays in that area since you're racing. A supercharger is about 400x better in my opion for a daily driver even though it drags the engine a tad it then makes up for that by putting power back in so that's not a issue for me. Granted the twin scroll on 335s and all the new BMWs are amazing on the street and track. A system like that is wayyyy expensive for what I want at least I think it would be. Anyway to get to my main point here. When I'm driving the RPM range I use is 1-4k maybe 5k if I really need to engine brake and brake hard or if I have to flog it to merge. With the added torque more than likely I would never get over 4k now. So 1-4K in the RPM range the turbo system makes about 100 ft/lbs at 2k RPM and by the time its at 4K its around 270-280. Not to mention this is a very peaky application of toque looks like a small mountain before plateauing. The TS on the other hand is already making at least 200 ft/lbs at 2K and then makes it up to around 270-280 at 4K which is like a slight incline on a treadmil compared tothe
turbos graph. Since 60% of max toque is already there it's much more drivable on the street in my opinion and that's what I'm looking for. Lots of instant passing power.

Since horspower is a measure of torque at a RPM. I'd much rather start with more torque.

^Hope you read that cause it really explains what I'm looking for.

[///M3///M5]

Maybe I can help a little (at least give you some purview):

After the two that are going to TRM next week-ish. There are 4 nose drive castings and 4 new throttle body adapter castings left. Not to say there cannot be more made, but I would not place my bet on that line.

[milKt]

^^^^
What Muddy up here is saying...

is... there are 2.1L kits available NOW.

Waiting to purchase may not be in the best interest if longing for the finest of linear boostest.

[pbonsalb]

If the OP wants power in the 1k-4k rpm range, an LSx V8 conversion is worth considering. Cost would be about the same as the twinscrew and he could sell his S52 drivetrain. Due to the significant overdrive trans, he would pretty good fuel highway fuel economy.

The OP would like the N54 in the 135/335. 285 lbs rwtq stock at 1700 rpm:

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1009_bmw_335i_335is_dyno_test/index.html

Add a $500 tune such as a JB4 and torque goes to 350 lbs rwtq or higher. Rather than dumping $10k into the E36, the E36 could be sold and the proceeds plus the mod money could be put towards an 07 or 08 135/335. The 135 feels a lot like the E36 M3, but is more modern and comfortable.

[GG///M3]

If the OP wants power in the 1k-4k rpm range, an LSx V8 conversion is worth considering. Cost would be about the same as the twinscrew and he could sell his S52 drivetrain. Due to the significant overdrive trans, he would pretty good fuel highway fuel economy.

The OP would like the N54 in the 135/335. 285 lbs rwtq stock at 1700 rpm:

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1009_bmw_335i_335is_dyno_test/index.html

Add a $500 tune such as a JB4 and torque goes to 350 lbs rwtq or higher. Rather than dumping $10k into the E36, the E36 could be sold and the proceeds plus the mod money could be put towards an 07 or 08 135/335. The 135 feels a lot like the E36 M3, but is more modern and comfortable.


I think he has set his mind to go TS. I don't think he wants to change his mind. Going Ls swap would mean much more down time for him. A TS install can be done easily within 8 hours. Try that with a ls swap :eyecrazy

[milKt]

LS swap would not have as much whp/wtq per dollar ratio (unless adding many other mods to the swap list)
and complicate the shit out of a simple install for MORE power.

135s and 335s are nice, but who needs a car payment and result in NO LSD differential.

TS = on topic

[Abis328]

If the OP wants power in the 1k-4k rpm range, an LSx V8 conversion is worth considering. Cost would be about the same as the twinscrew and he could sell his S52 drivetrain. Due to the significant overdrive trans, he would pretty good fuel highway fuel economy.

The OP would like the N54 in the 135/335. 285 lbs rwtq stock at 1700 rpm:

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1009_bmw_335i_335is_dyno_test/index.html

Add a $500 tune such as a JB4 and torque goes to 350 lbs rwtq or higher. Rather than dumping $10k into the E36, the E36 could be sold and the proceeds plus the mod money could be put towards an 07 or 08 135/335. The 135 feels a lot like the E36 M3, but is more modern and comfortable.

Before I would go that route I'd need to really be settled into a carreer after classes cause I'm sure insurnace on a newer sports/luxery vehicle would be alot more than what I'm currently paying. However I do like that idea but I must say this e36 has grown on me and has a special place in my heart and I don't think I can ever see myself selling it.


I have been looking around at LS swaps but that requires me to have another mode of transportation and I would most certainly have to wait to get a little more experience with engines and and transmissions before I would even feel comfortable attempting that. I've heard those swaps can get real expensive though.

My thought is if I rebuild the parts and turn something that I already love into something I love even more than it's more than worth it.


I think he has set his mind to go TS. I don't think he wants to change his mind. Going Ls swap would mean much more down time for him. A TS install can be done easily within 8 hours. Try that with a ls swap :eyecrazy

Would it make sense to do the install yourself and then just pay for the tune or would something like this be better left to the experts?


LS swap would not have as much whp/wtq per dollar ratio (unless adding many other mods to the swap list)
and complicate the shit out of a simple install for MORE power.

135s and 335s are nice, but who needs a car payment and result in NO LSD differential.

TS = on topic

:buttrock You know exactly where I'm coming from. Not to mention with the LS swaps you lose alot of neat little features that I like to point out my car that is almost fifteen years old has compared to other peoples 08 toyotas. Granted you do gain the I engined swaped card but I plan on doing that with a project car once I'm out of school anyway.

Off-topic,

It's pouring buckets up here in Maryland and the little 2.8 mangaged to spin second gear when already rolling at 20:redspot so wet both wheels were spinning and it went side ways. Totally caught me offgaurd but it was cool as hell:alright