Help! Farmers wants to put aftermarket parts on her car!

[Essenar]

*Warning* Wall of text! Scroll to bottom for cliffs.
Okay guys, I'm at the end of my patience. Here's the situation.

Farmers Insurance Group sucks royally. My friend bought a full coverage plan, told her agent at the time of buying it, "I want to be fully covered, no exceptions." Well apparently no insurance agency offers full coverage because now she's been in an accident and here's the bucket list of things they are doing to her:

1) She turned in her car on August 1st to a repair facility. She chose a BMW collision center because her agent told her, "Don't worry about it, you pick the shop and we pay for it." Right off the bat, the collision center told her that Farmers may not pay the entire labor rate of $55 an hour. She called her agent and he said, "I don't know what they're talking about. We pay everything and you just pay your deductible."

2) Her agent even asked a claims representative who responded in email saying the same thing, "As long as she pays the deductible, she's covered for everything."

3) She picked up a rental car the same day, on the belief that repairs would start as soon as possible and there's no way she'd use up all 20 of her rental days. 10 days go by and Farmers hasn't even returned the collision center's phone calls. She even told BOTH the help line AND her agent where the shop was, the address and phone number. On August 11th they sent out an adjustor and he short changed the estimate by nearly $3000, using imitation parts and removing some of the necessary labor.

4) Farmers Insurance Group tells the collision center that they HAVE to order aftermarket parts from THEIR vendors or they will not pay for OEM parts. The collision center says that they are required by law to repair the vehicle to manufacturer's standards and that if they use aftermarket parts, they will lose their BMW certification. No go. Farmers is adamant. The collision center tried to use their own reject slips for their inhouse vendor and Farmers literally told them, "We will not accept reject slips from anyone but our recommended vendors".

5) Here comes the worse part. They're not just using aftermarket parts for body sheet metal. They want to replace the A/C condenser and the radiator support with aftermarket parts. Mechanical components! If those fail, BMW certified warranty will not cover them and Farmers will turn around and replace them with MORE aftermarket parts, along with replacing any of the components that are damaged with aftermarket parts! This is becoming a nightmare.

6) We ask Farmers' adjustment manager to come down to the collision center so we can question him in person. We tell him about BMW's firm stance that aftermarket parts are NOT of the same "like" or "performance", we tell him about two Farmers' employees telling her that she would only have to pay the deductible. His stance is "no" "no" "NO". He even denied that the delay was Farmers' fault even though they never returned the collision center's calls so they won't even extend her rental policy.

7) We called attorneys hoping for bad faith litigation and the attorneys are just like, "Complain to the department of insurance". WTF! Everyone says "Dude get a lawyer, get a lawyer". Lawyers don't even want to help. They just tell us to complain to the department of insurance. What good will that do? Seriously? I complained to the better business bureau before and it took like two weeks for them to even get involved. Is the DOI different?

8) At this point I want to sue them, but if we sue them in small claims, can they deny paying her claim? Will we even have a shot with the circumstantial evidence we have? (An email from Farmers saying she's covered, BMW statements about aftermarket parts)

Help please if anyone has dealt with this.

CLIFF NOTES:
Accident on August 1. Took car to BMW collision center. Farmers never answered collision center's calls and didn't send adjustor until August 11th. They are undercutting the collision center and trying to force them to use aftermarket parts. Aftermarket parts include mechanical components, not just sheet metal. Also undercutting on labor rate despite telling my friend they would pay everything. Are now telling her this is her fault for choosing this collision center. They keep asking her about taking her car to a COD (Circle of Dependability) shop. Her rental expired on August 20th and they won't extend it. Lawyers won't help, keep referring us to department of insurance.

[Kevlar]

You need to read the fine print of her insurance coverage... the proverbial dotted line that she signed dictates what they can and can not do. Seeing as how the insurance company wrote the fine print, they normally know it inside and out... that's why lawyers don't want to get involved.

I'm not sure if product law would be applicable in the case that the email from the representative would be useful in the court of law because you are covered based on their fine print.

Sounds like it is time to find a new insurance carrier...

[ElleShooTiger]

What year and model BMW is it?

The newer the car, and if there's a loan on it, the better the chance that OEM parts will be used. Loan companies will shit bricks if a car is repaired using substandard parts. If its an older car, then they will try to push cheaper parts since the car isnt worth as much.

She has two options:
1. Ask the shop to find used parts. There is nothing wrong with using OEM salvaged parts! They're the same brand and quality, and many times cheaper than aftermarket parts. Once they're painted, you'll never know the difference. Plus shops like used parts since they know they're good quality and WILL fit, unlike the chinese sheetmetal stamped by idiots which then require the shop to spend hours getting the part to fit correctly.

2. Pay the difference between the estimate, and what it would cost to use new OEM parts. This is a common practice where the insurance pays what they're legally responsible for, and it gives the customer the option of parts choices, or even part upgrades like a higher-level bumper or different lights, etc.

If its an old car and there's no loan on it, she's going to either have to taken cheaper parts, or pay the difference out of pocket.

I recently had a semi-crappy experience with Farmers. A lady driving a BMW with Farmer's rear-ended the minivan behind me, pushed him into my Impala, and pushed my car into the Camry in front of me :( My car walked away mostly undamaged, but the bumpers had small indentations and the paint was cracking. Farmers's contacted me and was pleasant, didnt try to weasel out of it. Went to see their adjuster and right off the bat, he wanted to only pay 50% of the paint because of some small previous scratches, rock chips and a few touchups, wtf! Jeez, the bumpers werent perfect but they didnt "need" to be repainted, and now they do because of the cracked paint! Wound up getting him up to 80%, so it's going to cost me a few hundred out of pocket depending on where I have them painted.

A dealer body guy warned me that Farmers is known to pin-point their damages and only pay for that area. He had cars before that had damaged bumpers, but Farmers only paid for the center, because a scratch on the side meant it was previously damaged so they wouldnt pay to paint that area, but they would pay to clearcoat everything once the center was fixed, lol.

[g00dwagen]

+1 the leinholder does not want the car repaired using aftermarket parts.

+2 Used/salvage parts are the real deal. That is a viable alternative.

[Essenar]

Should she call BMW financial services to let them know? See if they get involved? Because yes the car is still financed with BMW.
And it's a 2008 so it's in that funny period where it's very recent but not "new new".

[ducky]

Is it still under warranty? Is it a lease or is BMW FS the lender?

I just got into a similar situation (someone hit me on 8/1). Because my car's a lease, it has to be repaired at a BMW collision center/dealer. BMW only cares where it gets repaired if they still have an ownership stake in the car.

[Essenar]

BMW FS is the lender and it is still under warranty. Only 30,000 miles on the car and it's covered up to 50,000 miles on the standard warranty and I believe much further beyond that on the Certified warranty.

[Essenar]

BMW FS is the lender and it is still under warranty. Only 30,000 miles on the car and it's covered up to 50,000 miles on the standard warranty and I believe much further beyond that on the Certified warranty.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Contact BMW financial services. And contact the state insurance comissioner.

If the car is under warranty, and there is still a loan against the vehicle, they cannot force you to use aftermarket mechanical parts as it goes against your warranty.

Yes, file a complaint with the department of insurance IMMEDIATELY. Like yesterday. You may think this is miniscule, but the department of insurance will contact them pretty quickly. And they do not like to have that black stain on them. Do it now.

Also since you are in San Diego, which place did you take it to? I know you mentioned BMW collision, but was it Brecht? etc?

[PitchblakToxic7]

Contact BMW financial services. And contact the state insurance comissioner.

If the car is under warranty, and there is still a loan against the vehicle, they cannot force you to use aftermarket mechanical parts as it goes against your warranty.

Yes, file a complaint with the department of insurance IMMEDIATELY. Like yesterday. You may think this is miniscule, but the department of insurance will contact them pretty quickly. And they do not like to have that black stain on them. Do it now.

Also since you are in San Diego, which place did you take it to? I know you mentioned BMW collision, but was it Brecht? etc?

Listen to this man, he speaks da truf.

They can't force you out of warranty because they want to use aftermarket parts. Plus the more people you have on your side the better.

[andrew5373]

i work at a dealership and if you get a good service manager.he should take care of all that for you.. at our place we deal with this all the time!!! honestly like 50% of all insurance companys do this. you have to kinda show them you know what your talkng bout and they cant push you around. dont get mad and start yell at them..that dont work.. be very firm with your knowledge. and have the bmw service manager by your side. telling them that it will void your factory warenty if you use aftermarket parts.and honestly i wouldnt even use aftermarket anything on my car.

if that dont work let bmw financial know...that there bmw is being fixed with sub par parts and not by your doing...

[Essenar]

Okay so I called BMW FS and they seem VERY confident that once we show Farmers' the loan contract that they will pay for parts. The lady on the phone also said, "If they don't change their mind, give them this phone number which is our insurance department and we will take care of it." She said that it's a common problem that they deal with and they have never had a problem getting an insurance agency to use OEM parts.
I feel a lot better after speaking with that lady.
And yeah I'm going to complete the complaint now because if we can get them to use OEM parts, we will also have to fight them for the labor difference.

I swear, this has been a nightmare. Her car has been at the collision center for a month and one week now and they haven't replaced ONE part on it.

And yes, it's at Brecht Collision Center.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Okay so I called BMW FS and they seem VERY confident that once we show Farmers' the loan contract that they will pay for parts. The lady on the phone also said, "If they don't change their mind, give them this phone number which is our insurance department and we will take care of it." She said that it's a common problem that they deal with and they have never had a problem getting an insurance agency to use OEM parts.
I feel a lot better after speaking with that lady.
And yeah I'm going to complete the complaint now because if we can get them to use OEM parts, we will also have to fight them for the labor difference.

I swear, this has been a nightmare. Her car has been at the collision center for a month and one week now and they haven't replaced ONE part on it.

And yes, it's at Brecht Collision Center.


It sucks that its going to be messy. But since technically the car belongs to BMW financial, they will get this sorted out. The moment the claim is closed, drop Farmers like a hot potato.

Try with Geico, they are actually generally really nice to deal with at times in my experience. Amica Mutual is supposed to have really good ratings. Maybe give them a call.

[Essenar]

In all honesty, there's still an uphill climb from here. The accident is a bit messy because my friend was cut off and she rear ended a car which rear ended the car in front. They're blaming her 100% but it seems like they didn't even conduct a proper investigation. The damage is all on the front right side of her bumper and not centered, which means the car wasn't fully in the center of the lane. She wants to fight it. I feel like it's not going to work. My hope is that we file small claims and the other driver won't show up because she knows she's lying. I heard most times people don't even show up for small claims which is an instant victory.

I feel like Farmers is half-assing the investigation on purpose because we didn't choose one of their "COD" shops. It's nice to know she'll finally get her car back in good parts though.

Too bad there's no rep boosting, I would definitely thumbs up some posts here. Thanks a lot guys! You might see me here and on 1addicts next year when I graduate and buy a Graphite 135i 6MT Coupe as my graduation gift!

[Sooner79]

Also insist that Farmers continue to pay for the rental car. They will. Just be insistent.

[Karbon]

Just FYI - it's illegal for the insurance company to use aftermarket parts if the parts the shop are replacing are OEM if you SPECIFICALLY ask for original parts in the repair.

No exceptions. If they're telling you different they're lying and you could sue their pants off and win easily if you have proof they did otherwise.

[bhch142]

damn!

[Essenar]

Okay I spoke with someone different at Financial Services and she is telling me that it's a retail sale which means they don't really get involved in this. WTF? I spoke with someone yesterday who told me they could help. So who's lying to me? God, I thought this would be over soon.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

In all honesty, there's still an uphill climb from here. The accident is a bit messy because my friend was cut off and she rear ended a car which rear ended the car in front. They're blaming her 100% but it seems like they didn't even conduct a proper investigation. The damage is all on the front right side of her bumper and not centered, which means the car wasn't fully in the center of the lane. She wants to fight it. I feel like it's not going to work. My hope is that we file small claims and the other driver won't show up because she knows she's lying. I heard most times people don't even show up for small claims which is an instant victory.

I feel like Farmers is half-assing the investigation on purpose because we didn't choose one of their "COD" shops. It's nice to know she'll finally get her car back in good parts though.

Too bad there's no rep boosting, I would definitely thumbs up some posts here. Thanks a lot guys! You might see me here and on 1addicts next year when I graduate and buy a Graphite 135i 6MT Coupe as my graduation gift!


Just tell them, under California law, I am entitled to use OEM parts on the repairs of my vehicle. And ask them directly, are you trying to tell me otherwise?

The other instance, fight the full liability. You might be able to get partial fault. Basically keep denying fault deny deny deny. If they still find you at fault, write a letter of appeal. You appeal enough times they will settle between the insurance companies often times.


Also, inform them that the conversation is being recorded (and record it) prior to starting any conversations. If you catch them lying to you directly like that, they are fucked. If they agree that you are entitled to OEM parts, case closed, you have proof they are in fact stalling. Make sure the person states their name, and employee number in the convo as well as the claim number.

[Essenar]

Also insist that Farmers continue to pay for the rental car. They will. Just be insistent.
We've been very insistent, they haven't done anything except tell us they are abiding by the terms of the policy. They've basically pointed fingers at the collision center, my friend, everyone other than themselves. Not ONCE have they admit fault for the delays are half-assing of the estimates.

This is a crock of shit.

We're already on our FOURTH supplement to the estimate and the car hasn't even started yet. Aside from the OEM parts, they also want to skimp on labor and required paint. Their initial estimate was nearly $3000 below what Brecht Collision Center estimated. They were leaving things out like readjusting parts, repainting, hazardous waste disposal, paying for paint supplies.

I don't know what to do guys if Financial Services takes back what they said and can't help.


Just tell them, under California law, I am entitled to use OEM parts on the repairs of my vehicle. And ask them directly, are you trying to tell me otherwise?

The other instance, fight the full liability. You might be able to get partial fault. Basically keep denying fault deny deny deny. If they still find you at fault, write a letter of appeal. You appeal enough times they will settle between the insurance companies often times.


Also, inform them that the conversation is being recorded (and record it) prior to starting any conversations. If you catch them lying to you directly like that, they are fucked. If they agree that you are entitled to OEM parts, case closed, you have proof they are in fact stalling. Make sure the person states their name, and employee number in the convo as well as the claim number.

The problem is they're saying OEM parts are "optional" and that they only have to reimburse for aftermarket parts. They're saying that if she wants OEM parts, she has to pay for it. I checked California law and it says as long as the parts are of "like kind, quality, performance" that they can be used. They don't want to stop her from having OEM parts, they just don't want to pay for them, at all. This whole situation is blowing up and ultimately what they want is to just pay the least amount and have her pay out of her pocket for parts she had on the car when she insured it.

Also, it's the same insurance company. Both her and the car in the middle have Farmers'. I think Farmers' is half-assing her claim because she didn't take her car to a COD shop. So they're punishing her for costing them more money. But I can't prove this.

[montaillou]

So who's lying to me?

Maybe someone is just misinformed. It sounds like you're starting to get a little paranoid.


Just tell them, under California law...

Before you start quoting from the law code, make sure you know exactly what law gives you this right. Most state's law codes are on-line these days. If you don't know the law and misinterpret it you'll just sound like an idiot to someone that does know it.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

We've been very insistent, they haven't done anything except tell us they are abiding by the terms of the policy. They've basically pointed fingers at the collision center, my friend, everyone other than themselves. Not ONCE have they admit fault for the delays are half-assing of the estimates.

This is a crock of shit.

We're already on our FOURTH supplement to the estimate and the car hasn't even started yet. Aside from the OEM parts, they also want to skimp on labor and required paint. Their initial estimate was nearly $3000 below what Brecht Collision Center estimated. They were leaving things out like readjusting parts, repainting, hazardous waste disposal, paying for paint supplies.

I don't know what to do guys if Financial Services takes back what they said and can't help.



The problem is they're saying OEM parts are "optional" and that they only have to reimburse for aftermarket parts. They're saying that if she wants OEM parts, she has to pay for it. I checked California law and it says as long as the parts are of "like kind, quality, performance" that they can be used. They don't want to stop her from having OEM parts, they just don't want to pay for them, at all. This whole situation is blowing up and ultimately what they want is to just pay the least amount and have her pay out of her pocket for parts she had on the car when she insured it.

Also, it's the same insurance company. Both her and the car in the middle have Farmers'. I think Farmers' is half-assing her claim because she didn't take her car to a COD shop. So they're punishing her for costing them more money. But I can't prove this.

Right, but here in lies the issue. Your car is under warranty and aftermarket parts will void it. Shitty situation for sure.

[Essenar]

Right, but here in lies the issue. Your car is under warranty and aftermarket parts will void it. Shitty situation for sure.

The department of insurance seems pretty confident they can take care of this when I called and explained what's going on.

The sad part is, you're half right. The truth is, there was an act passed in California that legally prevents a dealership or manufacturer from voiding your warranty as a result of using aftermarket parts. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty act, states that manufacturers may not "void" a warranty unless such parts are the reason or cause for failure.

But get this- Farmers' claims their aftermarket parts carry a warranty with their vendor. They also claim the work done to the car is warrantied, but it's warrantied THROUGH the shop, not through Farmers'. So let's say my friend's bumper falls off because of the crappy aftermarket part, and as a result, her oil pan is damaged from the front bumper scraping the under carriage of the car.

According to the verbiage of Farmers' warranty, my friend will have to take her car to Brecht Collision Center and ONLY they have a responsibility to fix the car. Farmers' has to determine that it was a result of the aftermarket part, not Brecht, in order for them to cover the failure. The oil pan will NOT be covered. As in the warranty, it does not state that they will cover damage to other parts as a result of a failure from their parts. And even if they did, they would replace everything with even more aftermarket parts.

Essentially, any repair will lead to more aftermarket parts and Farmers' has the discretion to decide whether or not the failure was the part's fault or a fault of the installation. (Who do you THINK they will blame?) This "warranty" is nothing like BMW's warranty.