Engine break in recommendations

[Jim M3]

My motor is going back together this week ,now that all the parts have arrived. The last time I put a new motor in the car I used the Moto man method to break in the engine on a dyno dynamics dyno. I felt like the car was using quite a bit of oil and when the motor came apart we did see some scaring on the main bearings. This could have been caused by several factors.

I would like to do a good break in, I will be using dino oil as well. I am open to suggestions on what has worked well for others.

The mileage from my shop to a shop with a dyno is almost 10 miles and I believe the Moto man break in method prescribes that the break in be done before 20 miles have passed.

I am open to suggestions.

[peapodf50]

I know there have been posts on this. Just can't look them up right now. I've have read to break it in with about 6 psi of boost and I have also read people being gentle on break in. I would just do some research and see what is the main thought on this.

Are you getting this ready for road america? I hope to get there 1 more time before the snow comes.

[tlmitf]

Right off the bat, get that sucker boosting!

What i do when i run in a new motor (assuming the bore has been honed and your bedding in new rings too)

Spin up motor on the starter (but do not start) to get oil pressure up.
Start up, idle and check for major leaks. (Do not let idle for more than a couple of mins MAX)
Shutdown and check all over for leaks.
Startup and drive.

DRIVE CYCLE

Take it nice and easy until its up to temp (as you normally do)
Find a nice straight section of road (dyno is better) and get some load on the rings! I usually get down to about 2K RPM and have a nice WOT run to about 5K (basically, run through peak torque a couple of times to bed in the rings, the aim here is peak cylinder pressures to get the rings to bed)
After that, a nice gentle drive for about 1200Kms and your all run in :)

Bearing tolerances should be fine if you built it well - just keep an eye on oil pressure.


Using this method i have run in a few motors, most of which lasted quite well (there was one or two that never seemed to bed the rings, and burn a bit of oil - however one of these motors was new rings in old bore)

[Jim M3]

This build will have a new bore and new rings, I am going to take it to a chasis dyno to get it broken in, so it can be controlled. There is a Porsche shop near the place where the motor is getting built, I am probably going to take it to them to break in the motor.

I really think the last break in wasn't a very good one, the car drank a lot of oil right from the start on a new bore pistons and rings. It made great power though.

I do plan on taking it back up to Road America for Octoberfast this year as well. I never miss that one, if things are running well I plan on doing all three days.

I am going to get the car corner balanced as well at the same time.

[tlmitf]

What is a lot of oil?
I was drinking 1L (full to empty on the dipstick) in about 7000kms. I get the feeling that the oil rings never took up.
Compression was good, motor ran hard - but it just used a bit of oil.

That was new rings, old bore.

The other motor that used oil was just rooted, went through 1L in about 4000kms - pulled it down and discovered i put the old oil control rings back in :eek:

[darrenforeal]

interesting stuff. Should you do the same type of thing if the motor has never seen boost but has a new HG and a rebuilt head? Also is a certain oil better than others for the first hundred miles or so?

[protomor]

don't waste expensive oil. Break your car in using water. Just 5 revs then dump it out and put in synthetic oil.

[JimsR]

What's the max boost one should run with a brand new build to break in? I will be starting mine up soon for the first time, I have a 1\2 bar spring in the wastegate.

[tlmitf]

interesting stuff. Should you do the same type of thing if the motor has never seen boost but has a new HG and a rebuilt head? Also is a certain oil better than others for the first hundred miles or so?

Nope.

Running in is mostly to get the rings to bed in.

Bearings these days are much more accurate, and dont need anything like the bed in that old iron V8's of yester-year needed.

Fresh startup (cranking to bring oil pressure up) should always be followed when new bearings (cam, main, or otherwise) are installed - you dont want any load on them untill they have a good oil film to protect them. ;)

[Def]

Bearings are hydrodynamic (the crank floats on a film of oil). There should be no contact in normal operation.

Wear on bearings for a track motor is a sign you're getting oil starvation in some corners.


Vary RPM, vary load, don't go WOT immediately, but give it some load to seat the rings.

[Jim M3]

Bearings are hydrodynamic (the crank floats on a film of oil). There should be no contact in normal operation.

Wear on bearings for a track motor is a sign you're getting oil starvation in some corners.


Vary RPM, vary load, don't go WOT immediately, but give it some load to seat the rings.

I had my oil suction tube crack off, we didn't discover it until the engine came apart, my mechanic questioned if that was what caused the issue because I also didn't have that bottom spacer in my oil cannister from the VPD kit, he said I was getting unfiltered oil back into the engine.

I had a ticking time bomb with a lot of things going wrong all together. The Porsche shop (Kelly Moss) gave me similar advice on how they would break in the motor and set the rings. They said they closely monitor the crank case ventilation and oil pressure to make sure the rings are getting set. They do the break in and dump the dyno oil as soon as the finish the break in.


What is a lot of oil?
I was drinking 1L (full to empty on the dipstick) in about 7000kms. I get the feeling that the oil rings never took up.
Compression was good, motor ran hard - but it just used a bit of oil.

That was new rings, old bore.

The other motor that used oil was just rooted, went through 1L in about 4000kms - pulled it down and discovered i put the old oil control rings back in :eek:

My car was drinking a quart of oil per day at the track. I literally was going through 2 to 3 quarts of oil every track weekend. The car wasn't smoking though or burning oil so I am not sure if it was just blow by or what was happening.

[Def]

If you put too much load on the rings it can "glaze them" by generating too much friction. Sounds like that's what happened to your last build.

You don't need anything more than moderately spirited street driving to initially set the rings. I've also heard a fast idle on initial start up of about 1.5-2k is good to help seat the rings. Dumping break in oil after about 20 miles is a good move.

[MikeE36]

Run it up to temp with a high idle, making sure everything sounds and looks okay. (AFRs, oil pressure, etc.) Change the oil.

Drive it. Varying load and RPM. I did 10 pulls in 3rd gear @ 7.5 psi from 2000 RPM - 5500 RPM, successively, allowing the car to slow back down to 2000 RPM after each pull by engine decel only (no brakes). After these 10 pulls, I varied the RPM and load and slowly increased it to 7200 RPM to make sure everything seemed fine at 5500, 6000, 6500, 6800, etc. before the full 7200 redline. I had seen WOT within 25 miles or so, (granted only 7.5 psi and 5500 rpm) and 7200 rpm redline within 120 miles. 24k miles later and lots and lots of track day abuse, my car doesn't burn any measurable amount of oil and runs flawlessly. Absolutely wait until the oil is 150 F at least before boosting hard or WOT, etc. I think some people (not saying you did) take the mototune method too seriously and assume they need to back out of the garage at WOT with the motor cold :shifty:D



-Mike

[protomor]

You guys are funny. Bearings will be fine as long as you get oil pressure before the car finally fires of. IE crank with the FP relay off until your oil pressure gauge reads a good amount. Get an oil pressure gauge you panzy.

After a few hundred revs (IE minutes of idling) your rings are bed. Anything else you do from that point is a rain dance. If your engine sucks down oil, you gapped your rings wrong or did something wrong. Break in was more than likely fine.

Wanna fight about it? Give me proof. Not your damn "I did it this way and worked" cuz I can sell you a rock that keeps tigers away when you're in DC.

[99r6]

You guys are funny. Bearings will be fine as long as you get oil pressure before the car finally fires of. IE crank with the FP relay off until your oil pressure gauge reads a good amount. Get an oil pressure gauge you panzy.

After a few hundred revs (IE minutes of idling) your rings are bed. Anything else you do from that point is a rain dance. If your engine sucks down oil, you gapped your rings wrong or did something wrong. Break in was more than likely fine.

Wanna fight about it? Give me proof. Not your damn "I did it this way and worked" cuz I can sell you a rock that keeps tigers away when you're in DC.

So you've broken in an engine just like that, broke it down right after and inspected it?

Or after xxxx amount of miles?

[protomor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdf5n-zI14

Who has the cash for that?

[dcvee]

Who makes your rings? Follow their recommended procedure and forget about the BS you read on the internet....unless it's true!!

Don

[protomor]

Who makes your rings? Follow their recommended procedure and forget about the BS you read on the internet....unless it's true!!

Don

QFT man QFMFT

[Jim M3]

Who makes your rings? Follow their recommended procedure and forget about the BS you read on the internet....unless it's true!!

Don

VAC sent a box full of rings with no instructions. I did find this on CP's site though, it doesn't show a break in procedure though.

http://www.cp-carrillo.com/Tech/PistonTech/tabid/74/Default.aspx

[dcvee]

CP rings that we use require no break-in. Engine break-in on BMW engines is really not critical. The reason is, because of the oil squirters. As far as rings go, they really do run on a film of oil too...just like bearings. However, at first start this film doesn't exist. BMW engines, having oil squirters, coat the cylinder walls immediately and the proper film is formed.

If your shop honed properly(240 grit@30-40deg and a few rotations with a plateau stone/brush)you shouldn't need to do anything except start the engine up and have fun. Of course, take it easy for the first 50 miles...drop the oil/filter. Refill/reload and beat the snot out of it. Chrome rings, little different story. With the integration of Moly into just about every wearable engine part, break-in is a thing of the past.

The real science in the operation of a properly assembled/balanced/dimensioned engine is simple...as mentioned here already. Get it up to operating temperature before you hammer it. As far as break-in goes that should include listening for noises. Watching oil pressure. Watching water temps. Looking for leaks. Funny smells. Smoke out the exhaust. I also change the filter at 500 miles but leave the oil alone.

Don

[Nj85'325]

See break in procedure here:

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=2158813923624

[Jim M3]

CP rings that we use require no break-in. Engine break-in on BMW engines is really not critical. The reason is, because of the oil squirters. As far as rings go, they really do run on a film of oil too...just like bearings. However, at first start this film doesn't exist. BMW engines, having oil squirters, coat the cylinder walls immediately and the proper film is formed.

If your shop honed properly(240 grit@30-40deg and a few rotations with a plateau stone/brush)you shouldn't need to do anything except start the engine up and have fun. Of course, take it easy for the first 50 miles...drop the oil/filter. Refill/reload and beat the snot out of it. Chrome rings, little different story. With the integration of Moly into just about every wearable engine part, break-in is a thing of the past.

The real science in the operation of a properly assembled/balanced/dimensioned engine is simple...as mentioned here already. Get it up to operating temperature before you hammer it. As far as break-in goes that should include listening for noises. Watching oil pressure. Watching water temps. Looking for leaks. Funny smells. Smoke out the exhaust. I also change the filter at 500 miles but leave the oil alone.

Don

Sounds pretty much like what the Porsche shop told me, except they dump the oil right away and go to synthetic.

[dcvee]

Sounds pretty much like what the Porsche shop told me, except they dump the oil right away and go to synthetic.

Which is fine. I really don't have a problem with running synth right off the bat either. Again, this line of thinking is based on OLD honing/cylinder finishing practices. Unfortunately, a lot of this misinformation gets circulated due to old technology and companies just wanting to play it "safe".

There are many OEM motors that come right from the factory with synthetics.

Don

[Jim M3]

I sent the instructions to the machine shop on the honing of the cylinders. I believe I will still let the P-car shop break in the motor on the dyno. My last car drank oil and I don't want this one to.