Sachs Clutch Kit. For dual or single mass flywheel??

[RED89E34]

Hey guys. I picked up the final part for the 5 speed manual conversion.
Sach clutch kit - P# 3000 207 001
Clutch friction disc P# - 1864098132(printed in center.
1849001092 and 11 s188 42215185 printed on friction surface)

Pressure Plate P# - 3082 184 031 printed/ TYP MF 240 stamped onto plate.


Throw out bearing is identical to the one from pelican. Going to return pelican t/o bearing or if anyone wants it $50.

So my question is how come there are not any springs in the friction disc? The one I pulled from the car looks like the typical oem friction disc.
Is the one in the picture an upgrade??

[camaroguy]

If you bought the factory clutch, there are no springs because the dual mass flywheel does the springing action itself. Its two peices with a spring rubber mechanism in between them.

[RED89E34]

Yeah its factory...I only have a single mass flywheel. Shoot.

The flywheel from the 89 535 is all metal and does not look dual mass but Ill check part number on it.

Thanks fellow gen 1 Camaro owner :)

There isnt a part number on the flywheel. Wasnt aware 89 had dual mass flywheels too. Maybe PO had it converted. It had a cheap friction disc in it and the Pres. plate looked original.

[ArnZ]

Single mass flywheel is much thinner then the dual mass one. Also that clutch disc need to have springs in the centre for it to work nicely with the single mass flywheel. You also need the pressure plate to suit to make up for the stack height.

[camaroguy]

Dual mass on my m60 looks like this:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-SBGw5LhuJ30/TPCh94PA3hI/AAAAAAAAG7A/CBUzDVdEdiA/s800/DSC07633.JPG

I would imagine the m30 flywheel would look similar, maybe just be a little smaller.

67 camaro eh? not a z28 by any chance is it?

[RED89E34]

I did some research on unsprung/sprung friction discs...
The Springs do help slipping/engagment noises and driveline stress, and when there is driveline load to through the driveline to the disc in a opposite rotation.

I guess you could think of it as being a Direct Drive Technic 1200s to a Stanton belt driven turn table....Im speaking djing here.

CONS
So yes more aggressive grab
harsher on driveline
quicker wear possibly.
Noisier

PROS
More immediate direct connection from engine to wheels.

This is all assumption on my part and the lovely net giveing me answers, I have never experienced this setup before...

My Camaro has a hard clutch pedal-Very stiff...I think it is sprung but man it grabs and is really jerky...Tight susp. with solid motor mounts, trans mount is polyU i think, traction bars and 295/50/15 tires. I havent driven it in 6 years but soon this year(Storage/expensive toy)

Camaroguy-Yeah I have single...I knew it once I just flipped the light on in the garage, lol....

No the Camaro was a 327 stick- back in the 80s the engine was tuned to a 355 s/b chevy with mild internal work...288hp at wheels at 308 trq. 4 speed.
Midnight blue with black ss stripes. I dont have any decent/updated pics.
How about you?

[camaroguy]

Right, but thats an unsprung disk and a single mass flywheel.

Dual mass flywheels do the work of the springs in the clutch. I have read the advantage is the rotational weight on the engine, rather than spinning it up with the clutch. It seems to me like the weight would be very small, but thats what I have read as one of the major reasons for the switch.

My camaro was running a 3 prong pressure plate off a 3/4 ton truck for a while. Man that would grab and go. That was before I managed to pull the rod (wrist pin and all) off the bottom of a piston one day :(

It's currently being stripped to the bare metal, with various body parts getting replaced to get painted. Havn't driven it in 8 years...Hasn't been in one peice in about 5 :(

[RED89E34]

Dual mass doesnt sounds like a reliable design for enthusiast driving.

Bummer about the Camaro. I havent driven mine in 6 years. Last time was when I dyno ran the car. It has been in storage back in the cold Milwaukee...Pops taking care(should be) for the time being...This is the year that shes coming back to her origin of production though.

I like your E34 too man.
Thanks for the input on the dmfw vs smfw discussion.

[RED89E34]

Wrong part ordered...I wasnt asked if I had DMFW or not and I didnt know so...What a waste of time. :)

Dual mass friction disc and PP are larger than single mass.

[ArnZ]

Wrong part ordered...I wasnt asked if I had DMFW or not and I didnt know so...What a waste of time. :)

Dual mass friction disc and PP are larger than single mass.

In the end the finnished product should look like this

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh89/arnzlozz/P4020451.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh89/arnzlozz/P4020458.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh89/arnzlozz/P4020461.jpg

[RED89E34]

So shiny and hatched. love it...

So guys...any part numbers for a single mass flywheel clutch kit???
My guy is looking for the right parts too.

[camaroguy]

Check the part numbers for an e28 maybe? I know they were single mass, but I don't know if that would necessarily be the single mass flywheel you have.

[ArnZ]

Also don't worry about the ring gear teeth count. e34 has 114 vs 116 for the e28 flywheel.

[dragracer440wed]

[QUOTE=RED89E34;22090499]Dual mass doesnt sounds like a reliable design for enthusiast driving.


RED89E34 is it better to have a single mass setup than having the dual mass? I have a dual mass on my 525 and am needing to do a clutch job soon. What are the advantages ?
Thank you
Ezra

[RED89E34]

Dragracer- I am not one to say either or...I did researched it on here, online, read about the theory and design from manufacturers using them. I just made my own conclusion of it...

I dont want to start saying this is better and this is why etc...Im not too familiar with them.

Thanks guys! Ill keep this updated.

[RED89E34]

After two clutches and leaving BMW the flywheel the correct one has been ordered. Again.
I will find out Monday if it is the right one.

[Tj Hunter]

What is the issue that you are having? I am running a JB racing LTWFW and a Sachs 540 OEM clutch with out sprung hub and it works great.

[ross1]

I did some research on unsprung/sprung friction discs...
The Springs do help slipping/engagment noises and driveline stress, and when there is driveline load to through the driveline to the disc in a opposite rotation.

I guess you could think of it as being a Direct Drive Technic 1200s to a Stanton belt driven turn table....Im speaking djing here.

CONS
So yes more aggressive grab
harsher on driveline
quicker wear possibly.
Noisier

PROS
More immediate direct connection from engine to wheels.

This is all assumption on my part and the lovely net giveing me answers, I have never experienced this setup before...

My Camaro has a hard clutch pedal-Very stiff...I think it is sprung but man it grabs and is really jerky...Tight susp. with solid motor mounts, trans mount is polyU i think, traction bars and 295/50/15 tires. I havent driven it in 6 years but soon this year(Storage/expensive toy)

Camaroguy-Yeah I have single...I knew it once I just flipped the light on in the garage, lol....

No the Camaro was a 327 stick- back in the 80s the engine was tuned to a 355 s/b chevy with mild internal work...288hp at wheels at 308 trq. 4 speed.
Midnight blue with black ss stripes. I dont have any decent/updated pics.
How about you?


Had to chime in here; Don't justify using what you have, exchange the clutch disc for one intended for the traditional flywheel.
Other comments took me back to my Fairchild 412 and '67 Camaro SS(with dual quad tunnel ram rat motor:))

[RED89E34]

Issue I had was the pressure plate and disc were too large for flywheel.

Ross, thanks man, it was a 2 minute thought overpowered by rational thought. Gen 1 Cams are shwweet...Do you have pics..

"My name? Mud...if anyone asks you"-great movie btw

[zubbie]

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1550768

[RED89E34]

3 strikes and Im out another week with a autobox. ew. lol....

So the flywheel has 137 teeth, Dia -ring gear teeth- 229mm. Without ring gear it is 227.8mm
The pressure plate surface area is 230mm

ALREADY ORDERED AND ARE NOT MATCHING UP
Sachs part # - 3000 207 001 - dual mass for my vin
2121-1-22-546 Single mass for my vin
2121-1-223-135/30 -dual mass after measuring flywheel.

two other possibilities - euro clutch kits
2121-223-545 and 240.

If any of you guys have some info on flywheels part numbers etc. please post here, I appreciate it.

Thanks.

[LouieD]

What FW are you using? IIRC all m30/m5 clutches are 240mm. Just order a clutch kit for an m30 e28 or e34 m5.

http://www.jbracing.com/flywheel-bmw4.php#e34models

[LouieD]

What FW are you using? IIRC all m30/m5 clutches are 240mm. Just order a clutch kit for an m30 e28 or e34 m5.

http://www.jbracing.com/flywheel-bmw4.php#e34models

"Issue I had was the pressure plate and disc were too large for flywheel."

Measure you flywheel clutch disk surface. If it's 228mm or 9" you have a FW for an m20. Your FW clutch surface should be 240mm or just under 9.5".

[RED89E34]

Thanks Louie D, I will keep this updated.

[RED89E34]

Here is the pressure plate part # I grabbed when I removed everything from salvage car.

Sachs 302 005 134 TYPMF 228

Any thoughts guys?

[ArnZ]

228mm, no good

[LouieD]

Here is the pressure plate part # I grabbed when I removed everything from salvage car.

Sachs 302 005 134 TYPMF 228

Any thoughts guys?

M=diaphragm spring clutch
F= flat flywheel
228 = clutch disk diameter


You've been ordering the right clutch, for the wrong FW. :(

[RED89E34]

Why was this in a 535 then?? :( Smaller/lighter/ quicker throttle response???

[LouieD]

Why was this in a 535 then?? :( Smaller/lighter/ quicker throttle response???
My guess is that somehwere during the life of the car, it needed a clutch/FW and the worn parts were replaced with the more readily available/less expensive m20 parts. They will work, but not last as long as the correct parts would.

[RED89E34]

Ugh. :( Thanks guys.

[RED89E34]

So I strayed with the flywheel and finally received the correct parts from BMW.
No issues with the slightly sluggish TM flywheel.

Loving the 5 speed...I had a waffle design trans from an 89 535 waiting but I also had a finned design trans from a 91 and went with that one.


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I have a SM flywheel from an 86 635csi that might go in. Is this possible? bmwfan.info was used to check parts swap but did not recommend for my setup. Any input is appreciated.
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