Put '95 doors on my '91, rear windows won't go down

[jhower08]

A few months ago, I installed some complete, rust and dent free doors from a '95 onto my '91. The windows were halfway down when I installed the doors and then proceeded to (hesitantly) go all the way up when I hit the switches. Since then, they have not budged. I thought maybe I just needed a later General Module. Well, I grabbed one this morning from a junkyard and threw it in, rear windows still won't go down. When I hit the window up switch, you can hear the GM click at least. When I hit the down function, I get nothing. I'm at the point where I'm going to assume that the door wiring differs between the years? Anyone out there have first hand experience with this type of issue?

Jason

[AZChris]

The window regulators could be bad?

[NeonMuffler]

i have exactly the same problem, 94 or 95doors on my 91 car

[ShapeShifter]

The click is from the relay module, this means the GM is good.
The command goes to the GM than the RM.
Sounds like the problem is at the motor regulator.

[Sam Son]

Its the regulators....my rear regulators are jammed and all that happens when I hit the button is I get a click as well... Take the door panels off and give the motors a couple light raps with a wrench or something to free up the 16 year old gunk and then try them...Id be willing to bet they go right down.

[AZChris]

If the regulators do turn out to be the problem, it could be that the grease dried up around those plastic clips, seizing the arms from moving.

[NeonMuffler]

but i only get the clicking when i press them up. down nothing happens, so it must be something regarding the wiring?

[gtopaul]

Same result from both console switch and individual door switches?

[jhower08]

but i only get the clicking when i press them up. down nothing happens, so it must be something regarding the wiring?
+1. Both of my rear regulators are good, they worked flawlessly in the donor car.


Same result from both console switch and individual door switches?
I get even less from the door switches. I don't even get a click from the GM when pressing the window up function like I do from the center console switch.

[NeonMuffler]

exactly like mine, so there must be something about the wiring?

anybody have any idea?

[googone20]

This is not good. I sold my early model doors and picked up a set of 1995 doors for my 1995 because they were black and matched my car.

[ShapeShifter]

The GM shouldn't make any noise, there are no relays in it.
The click comes from the realy module.

[Hoolie]

I read somewhere on bf.c that the early and later e34s has different door wiring?

Is it really so or am i dreaming?

[jhower08]

The GM shouldn't make any noise, there are no relays in it.
The click comes from the realy module.

You are correct, the click is just coming from that area so I just assumed (incorrectly) that it was coming from the GM.

And upon further investigating, the window wiring is in fact different in '94 and up cars. I'm currently attempting to figure out the differences between the two different versions used. Not going to lie though, wiring diagram deciphering is not my best strength haha. If anyone else is interested in taking a stab at it, the diagrams are located in the Bentley manual.

I THINK I've figured it out.

Early version...
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jhower08/d21f01f1.jpg
Later version...
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jhower08/f97be6c3.jpg

It appears that the early versions rear windows share power(?) from the front windows on one side of that switch whereas the later cars share it on the other side. Would the fix be as simple as swapping these two wires at the rear window motors?

Sorry for the cell phone pics of the diagram, I'm too comfy on the couch to run up to the computer and scan them haha.

[NeonMuffler]

wiring is nt my strong side, but tell me how it works if you test it! :D

[Layne]

It appears that the early versions rear windows share power(?) from the front windows on one side of that switch whereas the later cars share it on the other side.

No. Look at the motors, one drawing is simply upside down from the other. There is no electrical difference in the 2 schematics, the trouble must be elsewhere.

[jhower08]

^ I did happen to take notice of that actually. However, the two diagrams still differ, look at the connecting points in each diagram...

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jhower08/d21f01f1-1.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jhower08/f97be6c3-1.jpg

Excuse the MS paint usage, I'm at work and my laptop doesn't have PS. Hopefully it's good enough for me to get my point across at least haha.

[Layne]

Ahh you're right, I missed that. But... I'm still not sure it matters. I'll have to look at the full schematics and see if I can figure anything out.

[NeonMuffler]

if someone figures this out and makes it work i will be forever grateful! :D

[Tyannt]

The door wiring harness is different after 9/93!

The info I supplied came from the dealership.

Knowing this, Hopefully the electrical Gurus can find the difference
and the E34 community will have a greater availability of doors.
Good luck guys!!

[jhower08]

if someone figures this out and makes it work i will be forever grateful! :D
Trust me, me too bud! We WILL get to the bottom of this one way or another :)


The door wiring harness is different after 9/93!

The info I supplied came from the dealership.

Knowing this, Hopefully the electrical Gurus can find the difference
and the E34 community will have a greater availability of doors.
Good luck guys!!

Thanks for the input, Greg! Yes, the wiring in '94 and '95 models is definitely different than '93 and older. I'm sure we'll be at the bottom of this in no time!

[Mark185]

Auto makers usually design stuff like this so that the switch is on the side of the circuit that goes to ground and the electric motor gets a direct feed from the 12 volt positive side. That is what the later model circuit looks like. Both motors get a common feed that I will bet is 12 volts positive.

The early model schematic is strange because the wire that appears to be 12 volt positive to the front passenger window motor, goes to the switched side of the circuit for the rear door on that side. Why would BMW wire one window motor according to common convention and not the other one? This could certainly be the problem.

I think solving this is going to require tracing the circuits all the way back to the window motor switches in the center console to figure out how each motor gets the 12 volt positive feed for early and late cars. The door schematic that is posted does not make this clear enough. I don't have enough time to dig into this right now but will if one of you does not figure it out by next week.

[kalevera]

An aside, you will want to switch back to the early GM if the car is a '91. Late GM does not play well with the earlier central lock system.

[NeonMuffler]

anybody tried to figure it out?:)

[jhower08]

anybody tried to figure it out?:)

I figured out a fix this afternoon actually :)

I still had my old doors laying around, so I just swapped the door wiring harnesses. Everything functions perfectly again! There was a few differences in the harnesses. The connectors that go to the locks differ between the old and new doors, so I just cut and spliced the connector from the late harness onto the early harness before I put it back in the car. Second, The window limit switch on the older doors attaches by a connector whereas the later ones are actually part of the harness. Besides that, it was a direct swap!

Let me know if anyone needs anything clarified more thoroughly!

[NeonMuffler]

hm, then i need to get the wiring from older doors, since my old ones was manual :(

[googone20]

I was hoping this wasn't the case, but from the sounds of it things should be fairly easy.

[Nunthewiser]

Reviving an old thread, clarification needed....
I just bought complete '95 front doors to swap onto my '92 and read this downer.

I am interested in front doors only (my back doors are OK)...do I need to play around with wiring?

[googone20]

Front doors some work fine, but the back doors will
need the wiring harnesses swapped.

[Nunthewiser]

Bah. The uncertainty made me decide to try to fix the drivers side door thats on the car now. It has a ruined door check that screwed up the window channel. I got it out and straightened but now cant get it in.
.

[googone20]

So throw the replacement front door on.

[Nunthewiser]

I may have to, but today that will mean fixturing so that SWMBO doesn't have to get involved much as she hates anything to do with cars. It also means the car will have non-matching doors which will further annoy her and put pressure on me to paint it. Its complicated.