Looking at a touring... Need advice.

[GIANUCCI E30]

Hey guys, Well as I told E34moneypit and a couple others... I got the touring bug. Especially now with Tracey sitting due to Sams Club tire center bottoming her out on their lifts And twisting the trans and motor off the mounts. She goes to the shop saturday. Will keep everyone updated.

I found a few which run from good condition to being a project. My question is what are the problem areas especially those problems that are different than the sedan?

TIA (thanks in advance)

[5senses]

Seriously your adding to the fleet? sweet!

Touring members will chime in in a minute...

Wes

[nosignal]

Rear hatch wiring is the only common non-sedan issue I can think of off hand. Check to make sure all the hatch functions (rear hatch/glass openers, rear window washer/wiper, etc) function correctly.

Good luck on your hunt! I love my Touring, almost want to sell my sedan and add a 2nd to my fleet. :)

[Layne]

I think the sunroofs are prone to trouble, though mine works fine. Other than that and the hatch wiring, it's just the same thousand million problems the sedans have.

[oreoe34]

+1 for rear hatch issues.
also depends on Year, if it has SLS then I'd think twice about buying it.

As for the sunroof issues, the only thing that had ever happened to mine was the one of the lifting mechanisms broke off (i dont know how), so i just swapped out the whole sunroof.

If the only sunroof issue is that it doesnt budge, then first try to hold down the sun roof button (the one used to open/close in one click) for 10 seconds. If that doesnt work, then its either a motor issue or physical issue.

[E34M50]

+1 on the hatch issues. Luckily my second touring don't have that issue although I just noticed that the washer for the glass is not working. Try not to get the ones with SLS (not that its a bad thing but one less thing to worry about) because if it goes out, its a moneypit. I got a 95 and I really like the m-tech factory skirts, wider grill w/ hood, and projector headlights on my 95. It does tend to have a bit more creeking, plastic rattle sound in the cabin compared to the sedans I have owned before. But that could be an isolated thing. Good luck!!

[pennpen]

wait what did sams club do? lol

[GIANUCCI E30]

wait what did sams club do? lol

Well...:(

I took Trace over to Sams to get a new set of Dunies for 118 a pop. I gave them special instructions on the care of my car. With emphasis on how to be careful placing it on their old school floor lifts (the ones with the bottle and mechanicals dead center between the slats)

Well my E34 brethren and ladies... Keyword: R.I.F

Reading is fundamental

They tapped that pesky metal bracket that's attached to the 260 trans. In doing so they pushed the trans forward snapping the rear left trans mount. In the process twisting the motor and trans to the right which then pushed the front right motor mount out of place. Snapping the motor mount bolt.

Now the car is making some serious noise which is telling me they F'd up the trans interally.:(

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=514&pictureid=7007

[TexFinn]

Yup. As has been said already, the Touring-specific problem areas are pretty much those: sunroof, SLS and hatch wiring.

Other than those, any other E34 issues will apply.

Good luck with your Touring search. :thumbup:

[6erWEBB]

Hell I dont trust anyone with my cars. I took my six to gateway tire once and they crunched the exhaust so bad I had to take it off, it was almost kinked closed. Now I take my wheels off and take them wherever.

[cmgreensr]

How drunk was the karate kid that night?

[jbondbmw]

Never take your car to any of the shitty franchised places. That is one of the two big reasons I try and do the work myself. The other is money, haha.

[ShapeShifter]

Buy the sunroofless '95 in classifieds. Takes care of 66% of said problems.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1578927

[Layne]

The touring is one (the only?) case where LAD (why do e34 people insist on calling it SLS?) makes good sense. There's a large cargo area and you can fit a lot of weight in there, not to mention those with trailer hitches. LAD is not a money pit unless you buy factory new struts. I repaired the ones on my e32 for $15 and half an hour each.

[sfgearhead]

I'd actually like to have the LAD, for just the reasons Layne points out. And it's easy to bypass if you don't want it or it's leaking. It's more common on earlier models.

[attack eagle]

The touring is one (the only?) case where LAD (why do e34 people insist on calling it SLS?) makes good sense.

Because it is Self Leveling Suspension.



I'd like to have it so you can lower the rear in 3 minutes with a wrench.

:)

45 minutes to swap the front suspension over to billies and vogtlands, and you could have your car lowered in under an hour.

[GIANUCCI E30]

Buy the sunroofless '95 in classifieds. Takes care of 66% of said problems.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1578927

I've seen it. He has been contacted. And e34 i contacted dude in ATL. Let's see what the insurance company does now. They want the estimate. Which is a good sign. The mechanic is a buddy and family friend so he'll do the right thing by me. The ball is in their court. Or they'll be in court.

If for some reason things go left. I'll sell tracey out right with the TCD Turbo setup AEM UEGO 6 in 1, RRFPR, TCD stage 2 water to air intercooler, 12v pump, k27 turbo, Garrett heat exchanger,custom exhaust with magnaflow dual cat, 3" piping to a glaspack, RD SIDE SKIRTS, smoked hella tails, darkened front turn signals, 540 brake ducts, manual boost controller, Tial wastegate, 745 mani, all the nuts & bolts and dinan chip (which is in the car now) minus the front seats, smileys and the wheels for a decent price to put me in a touring.
I won't kill anyone on the price as long as I can do a smooth change over to a touring.

but again I don't want to put the carriage before the horse.

this sucks man...:(

[Layne]

Because it is Self Leveling Suspension.

But those are English words... and it's not an English car. :D

But yeah, it's not as bad as people say. Yes, a new strut is $1000, but hell how much is a BMW brake rotor? Here's what's going on inside the strut: http://bmwe32.masscom.net/gavin/LAD_strut_rebuild.htm 90+% of failures will be a seal in the damping unit at the bottom, which can be removed while still on the car. They either have a quad-ring in there or another special type of seal that I can give you the part number for. Quad-rings are pennies each, but this seal was $15. Pretty spendy for a dime sized piece of plastic, but cheap to fix a $1000 strut. If you need accumulators, there's not much you can do about the cost of those ($250/pair I think it was) except to buy used ones.

[GIANUCCI E30]

But those are English words... and it's not an English car. :D

But yeah, it's not as bad as people say. Yes, a new strut is $1000, but hell how much is a BMW brake rotor? Here's what's going on inside the strut: http://bmwe32.masscom.net/gavin/LAD_strut_rebuild.htm 90+% of failures will be a seal in the damping unit at the bottom, which can be removed while still on the car. They either have a quad-ring in there or another special type of seal that I can give you the part number for. Quad-rings are pennies each, but this seal was $15. Pretty spendy for a dime sized piece of plastic, but cheap to fix a $1000 strut. If you need accumulators, there's not much you can do about the cost of those ($250/pair I think it was) except to buy used ones.


Ok from what I see the self leveling system is a bear. Are the issues with the SLS or LAD or whatever it's called, (tomato, Tomato) parallel to the problems with old Lincolns, Cadillacs, Range Rovers, Mercedes and various other vehicles which have similar electronic leveling system be it hydralic or mechanical?

I've seen the failures one too many times.
(Gangsta leaning, high in the rear, front or both, dragging the rear or pancaked).

Good to know. Oh no... I'll try to steer clear of those equipped with it.


Never take your car to any of the shitty franchised places. That is one of the two big reasons I try and do the work myself. The other is money, haha.

point noted. I found a deal and got a bigger possibly more expensive one.

[Elekta]

LAD/SLS is still worth fixing on tourings because you load stuff in it all the time. Just fix it and forget about it. You'll be happy you did. I understand deleting it on a sedan or iL, but you will find it comes in handy when you toss stuff in the back and carry around kids.

[Layne]

Are the issues with the SLS or LAD or whatever it's called, (tomato, Tomato) parallel to the problems with old Lincolns, Cadillacs, Range Rovers, Mercedes and various other vehicles which have similar electronic leveling system be it hydralic or mechanical?

I've seen the failures one too many times.
(Gangsta leaning, high in the rear, front or both, dragging the rear or pancaked).

I'm not too familiar with those systems, but I'd say no. Lincoln's etc are air powered, right?
BMW systems do not lean or drag etc. Typical failure mode is leaking. At $15 per liter it's hard to let a leak go unnoticed. Once all the fluid is gone it will get super bouncy, but you won't have any power steering at that point. If the accumulators fail, you just get a really harsh ride in the back (what I have now).


LAD/SLS is still worth fixing on tourings because you load stuff in it all the time. Just fix it and forget about it. You'll be happy you did. I understand deleting it on a sedan or iL, but you will find it comes in handy when you toss stuff in the back and carry around kids.

Exactly the point I'm trying to make. I would have been less interested or not interested in buying my touring if it didn't have it (I was already familiar with fixing it from my e32). I'm going this weekend to see how much hardwood flooring I can fit in the back.

[5kcstq]

I'm going to chime in and agree with some that to me the SLS/LAD is a plus to the car, not really down side. The SLS gives you the ability to adjust your rear ride height if you so desire, and to adjust the suspension back level after adding a bunch cargo weight in the back.
I put H&R SLS springs in the rear of mine, and run it in combo with Koni's/H&R up front, and the suspension is great. My car has 270k miles on it, and the SLS is still functioning fine with no leaks. It's really a simple system, and other than leaks in the shocks themselves, by and large there isn't much to go wrong. It seems to be a far better system than the Benz, caddy, Audi etc. which I would avoid.

As others have mentioned, the hatch wiring in the rear can be a nuisance, and the sunroofs you either use or lose... otherwise same as a sedan really, only 100% cooler and much better looking :D

HTH,
Tim

[GGray]

Well. I took it off my car.

I run 700 pound front ,and 600 pound rear springs. I can haul a TON of junk and the rear never bottoms out.. And mine handles great! Nice and flat, not too stiff. I found when researching spring rates all the aftermarket spring rates were too soft for the weight of the vehicle. Based on how I wanted it to ride/handle.

I wanted M3 like feel and handling which I have now. I plan to weld the sunroof up in mine to stiffen the chassis up. Mine is very flexy with the sunroof. Without a touring should be substantially stiffer, lighter, and handle even better withthe loss of weight up top.

[GIANUCCI E30]

I'm not too familiar with those systems, but I'd say no. Lincoln's etc are air powered, right?
BMW systems do not lean or drag etc. Typical failure mode is leaking. At $15 per liter it's hard to let a leak go unnoticed. Once all the fluid is gone it will get super bouncy, but you won't have any power steering at that point. If the accumulators fail, you just get a really harsh ride in the back (what I have now).



Exactly the point I'm trying to make. I would have been less interested or not interested in buying my touring if it didn't have it (I was already familiar with fixing it from my e32). I'm going this weekend to see how much hardwood flooring I can fit in the back.

Ok I see your point. Yes the lincoln has a air ride as well mercedes and Range rover.

However I was under the impression that Land Rover, who at one time was in bed with BMW bringing about the introduction of the X5. Used the same system for the Discovery class. I never knew it was from the touring innovation... learn something everyday.



I'm going to chime in and agree with some that to me the SLS/LAD is a plus to the car, not really down side. The SLS gives you the ability to adjust your rear ride height if you so desire, and to adjust the suspension back level after adding a bunch cargo weight in the back.
I put H&R SLS springs in the rear of mine, and run it in combo with Koni's/H&R up front, and the suspension is great. My car has 270k miles on it, and the SLS is still functioning fine with no leaks. It's really a simple system, and other than leaks in the shocks themselves, by and large there isn't much to go wrong. It seems to be a far better system than the Benz, caddy, Audi etc. which I would avoid.

As others have mentioned, the hatch wiring in the rear can be a nuisance, and the sunroofs you either use or lose... otherwise same as a sedan really, only 100% cooler and much better looking :D

HTH,
Tim

OK well I hear both sides of the story now.

Let me see if I got this correct:

SLS or LAD is great for heavy loading however are prone to fail if the maintenance isn't done routinely. So if the system is in decent condition don't count it out.

Removing the system is a complete avoidance of the entire SLS LAD system. The average delete of this system may not be able to handle the same load as the SLS/LAD. However if the suspension is tuned correctly it can be just as great and you get a more aggressive "Riding on rails" Feel.

Ok Got you on that.

Find one with a sunroof thats in good condition or without one period.

Performance wise: Same as a 525i. You can basically do everything except swap rear doors with other sedan models, No?

If I'm right... Isn't the driveshaft different? are they LSD standard?

[LouieD]

I removed the SLS/LAD system from mine. Still load the crap out of it.

Finding a T without a sunroof is kind of hard, but not impossible.

Rear door are interchangeable if you remove/swap the window frames.

Drive shaft is the same. Rear bumpers are the same. Tail lights are not.

Sucks about your car, but if you won't regret the Touring.

[GIANUCCI E30]

Well Tracey went to the shop yesterday. Sad moment seeing her placed on the flatbed.

Anyway I went to SAM'S CLUB and took Pictures and measured the lifts in case their insurance company gets skiddish and tries to flake out on paying for the damage.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=514&pictureid=7087

Told you guys it was the old style hydraulic lifts
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=514&pictureid=7088http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=514&pictureid=7089

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=514&pictureid=7090

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=514&pictureid=7091
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=514&pictureid=7092

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=514&pictureid=7093

This is the cross beam on the lift. This is what caught the trans and pushed it off it's axis.