how bad?

[89 bimmer]

So after draining the oil, we found it to have some sort of liquid in it, water, maybe coolant, not sure. I know that's bad, but how bad is that? I'm going to buy a new filter tomorrow, and complete the oil change. Should I even bother?

[Boom n Zoom]

Do you run coolant in the radiator?
if you can see that same color then it's likely to be the Head Gasket.

Have you checked the level of the Cooling system to see if it is low?

Is this car new to you or your regular?

Have you loaned out the car to anyone?

Sorry about all the questions 89 bimmer, just that the more background information there is the easier to try and diagnose for everyone, also I left Extra Sensory Perception off my resume.

[89 bimmer]

Its all good.

new car, only had it for 2 weeks.

I took out the starter, disconnected and spilled coolant tubes. I'm hoping that's what's in my oil. The coolant was a yellowish color, almost pale, and that's what color my oil is now. I would hbave finished the oil change today, but I wanted to replace the filter also. Don't want a dirty filter with clean oil. I hope that helps. The car sat for approx 6 months before I bought it.

[Boom n Zoom]

Ah so, new to you :) Congratulations.

As it is indeterminable as to how exactly the coolant got into the oil, I would continue with the oil and filter change.
Get it topped up in the cooling system, oil and filter fitted up.
Start it up let it run for a little, turn it off and check the oil level after sitting for about 10 mins to check the oil level.

Once the oil level is correct start the car and get it up to temperature and see if you have a scuba diver in your cooling system (bubbles, a constant stream of them) then it is likely you have a headgasket that is leaking near a water gallery.

If you get no steady stream of bubbles, it may well be fine. Although for a definitive check have the cooling system pressure checked, then you will know for sure if the cooling system is leaking.

This is what I would do, I'm sure that there will be someone who will disagree though.

I hope it is nothing wrong with the headgasket and the cooling system checks out fine so that you can start driving it and enjoying e34 ownership.

[89 bimmer]

This is my second e34. The problem is I can't start this one. But that's another story. Ill let you guys know tomorrow how it goes.

[ElleShooTiger]

If the car sat for that long, it could very well just be condensation that occured inside the engine. Changing the oil and taking it out on the highway for a good long drive should get rid of any remaining moisture.

If the oil looks like spicy mayo, then more than likely there is coolant in there.

[sfgearhead]

If the car sat for that long, it could very well just be condensation that occured inside the engine. Changing the oil and taking it out on the highway for a good long drive should get rid of any remaining moisture.

If the oil looks like spicy mayo, then more than likely there is coolant in there.

+1. If it came out looking like milkshake you're toast. If it was floating on top, it's likely condensation.

Change the filter and oil, then check the dipstick and cap after running it for a few minutes at idle. Good luck!

[89 bimmer]

Only thing is, the engine WON'T start. When I pulled the bolt out of the oil pan it was still very thick like oil shbould be, but caramel colored. I'm hoping I just got coolant in there accidentally and a flushb will work it all out.

Also spicy mayo sounds like a bad idea in general. Not just on describing oil.

[ElleShooTiger]

How does it not start? Does it just crank and crank? Or does it just not turn over?

Sorry to say, but if its not turning over and its been sitting for 6 months with a possibly blow head gasket, there is a very high likely hood that there are a few seized pistons.

[89 bimmer]

How does it not start? Does it just crank and crank? Or does it just not turn over?

Sorry to say, but if its not turning over and its been sitting for 6 months with a possibly blow head gasket, there is a very high likely hood that there are a few seized pistons.

That's what I'm thinking about. In that case I almost think I should take the car for parts and that's about it.

And it just turns over, doesn't start.

[ElleShooTiger]

As long as it turns over you should be fine, work on getting it running then worry about any water in the oil. If its just moisture, it'll evaporate once the engine heats up for a good while.

Change the oil again in 100-200 miles and see if it clears up.

We bought a 98 Ranger in 2009 with 240k miles and supposed blown headgasket. Oil was milky and chunky, changed it out and its been fine for the last 15k miles. We think the previous owner drove through water and sucked some in.

[89 bimmer]

I know the radiator hose is blown. So I'm thinking I got sold an over heated car. Didn't notice the hose until I bought it, the blow was hidden. I'm going to be more than upset if that's case. Would a seized engine have anything to do with the oil mystery?

[M Quick]

As you're saying that it turns over, then it's not a seized piston.

Turn over as in it's cranking but not starting, right?
Sometimes i get confused by the meaning of "it turns over but it doesn't crank" for example, doesn't make sense in my head, though that might be because i'm not natively english speaking. Not that you said that, but i've seen a few who has used those exact words.
But turns over sounds to me like the engine is as you say, turns over = spinning, cranking, "rolling" around etc..

Why i bring this up is because if i missunderstod your post about it turning over.. and that if "turn over" just means that the starter doesn't engage against the flywheel, or whatever it now might mean.
Hehe.


But if it in fact is seized, then yes, that would be a probable cause of the problem, when water is entering the combustion chamber, it's always a risk that there will be too much water coming in, and because of that it defeats the purpose of the oil which has several main functions, one of which is to lubricate the engine.

[bolloc]

How on earth could you spill coolant from coolant hoses into the engine during a starter R&R?

[89 bimmer]

How on earth could you spill coolant from coolant hoses into the engine during a starter R&R?

I'm not sure I actually did, I'm just giving you guys a full idea of what I did. I pulled the coolant hose off, and coolant went everywhere.

Also, I have been searching with no luck for a write up on head gasket replacement. Does anyone know of a good write up? How in depth is it? I see people saying 12 hours for the full job. Does that sound right? Is that what I'm looking at? I don't wanna replace a good gasket. Should I just go back and get my money back for this car? It seems to be a lot of trouble for a car I was told would run with a new battery.

[BoldUlysses]

Also, I have been searching with no luck for a write up on head gasket replacement. Does anyone know of a good write up? How in depth is it? I see people saying 12 hours for the full job. Does that sound right? Is that what I'm looking at? I don't wanna replace a good gasket. Should I just go back and get my money back for this car? It seems to be a lot of trouble for a car I was told would run with a new battery.

The Bentley manual has a writeup on head gasket replacement for the M30. I believe it's available electronically online, but I don't have the link handy. This link should give you a rough idea of what's involved:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/101-Projects-17-Head-Gasket/101-Projects-17-Head-Gasket.htm

Can you get your money back? That's the question. And I hope there isn't much money to be gotten back in the first place. In other words, I hope you didn't pay too much for the car in case it's a disaster (which it certainly seems to be shaping up to be).

Unfortunately, you've already worked on the car beyond putting in a new battery, which would seem to remove the last bit of leverage you might have possibly had in returning the car. The previous owner will just say you were the one who caused the problems, not him, whether or not that is the case.

What a mess. You need to find a solid E34 and drive carefully, man. Good luck.

-Matt

[89 bimmer]

The pisser is its a beautiful car, fantastically taken care of, until you pop the hood. Its looking like ill be using it for a parts car until I can figure this engine out. So ill have my silver 535 up and running, just not what I had planned. Ill be posting shortly about sway bar and tie rods. After I check up on bentley to see what it says about those. My silver one was in the wreck on thanksgiving, and I totalled the crossmember, and suspension on the front left side. So I guess it back to square one with a parts car.

[BoldUlysses]

Why not swap the engine from the silver one into the new (black?) one? I'd do an engine swap before a head gasket replacement.

-Matt

[89 bimmer]

I would LOOVE to do that. The engine in the silver one is by far the superior engine. But I'm about as useless with engine swaps as a broken screwdriver. Plus I don't have the tools.

Sorry, I forgot to tell you, its gold.

[BoldUlysses]

If you lived a little closer I'd definitely help you out. I have an engine hoist and load leveler but they're at my parents' at the moment; after we close on our new house in a little over a week they'll be moving to my new garage.

I did my first engine swaps when I was 21 and had little more than a basic socket and wrench set. You don't need anything "exotic" except for the hoist, which I would be more than willing to let you borrow if you have a pickup truck or minivan handy.

I don't want to talk to you into anything you really don't want to do, but honestly you just have to dive in. If you can follow the Bentley's step-by-step directions and have a modicum of common sense, you can handle it.

-Matt

[zubbie]

M30's are cheap and plentiful. clean chasis' are not. do the swap if the engine is toast.

[89 bimmer]

Matt, I honestly appriciate it, and ill talk to my dad tonight. If you guys geniunly think I can pull this off, I may take you up on that offer. I wish I had my camera, so I could show you guys how beautiful this car is. The paint is VERY well taken care of, I can see myself in it. The wheels have dust covers under them, so they pop very nicely, the interior is a nice tan color, very few rips, and all original parts except the radio.

Is there anything I will need special? Like any special hand tools? I'm on a budget of around $400 since ince I'm back in school and not working for now.

[BoldUlysses]

Before I did my first engine swap the biggest car repair job I had tackled was changing a starter all by myself. Now granted, the car in question was an '85 Mazda RX-7, which has a tiny engine whose bare block weighs about 150 lbs, so it wasn't a huge challenge. But again, if you can follow basic directions and don't mind getting dirty, I think you could do it.


Is there anything I will need special? Like any special hand tools? I'm on a budget of around $400 since ince I'm back in school and not working for now.

As far as tools, I'd recommend:

- 8 through 19 mm 6-point metric sockets and driver
- 18" 1/2" drive breaker bar with 1/2" to 3/8" adapter
- 8 through 19 mm box-end wrenches
- Various lengths and size flathead and Phillips screwdrivers
- Various pliers (needle-nose, regular, channel locks, vise grips)
- Big jug of Super Orange hand cleaner or Gojo
- Simple Green degreaser
- Lots of paper towels
- Sandwich bags and a Sharpie so you can bag and label fasteners you remove
- Brake parts cleaner spray for quick cleans
- Various pans and containers for fluids
- New fluids like coolant, oil
- A bag of zip ties to keep things out of the way as the engine is coming out
- Some white-out to mark the hood hinge locations to make hood reinstallation easier
- I think I have some heavy-duty chain and a padlock for the hoist, if not, you'll need that

I'd do it without removing the transmission, that way you don't have to spend extra on those fancy star sockets; besides, separating the engine and transmission is a bear. It makes removal a little trickier since you have to do this:

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/861/1041/2150520061_large.jpg

(yes, that's me holding the hoist)

but in the end it's worth it.

That's just off the top of my head. Budget a good couple of weeks of evenings, less if you can put in some time during the day. An assistant is mandatory for the actual removal and installation of the engine.

-Matt

[89 bimmer]

I sit around a good bit of the day as I took a bunch of easy classes, to make time for my gf, who I can't see right now, because I have no working car. Go figure...

Also, I just went out and bought flexable ratcheting wrenches. Will those work?

[BoldUlysses]

Also, I just went out and bought flexable ratcheting wrenches. Will those work?

Those are nice, if pricey. What sizes? You'll need at least 10mm through 17mm, preferably 8mm through 19mm.

-Matt

[89 bimmer]

I have 10-17mm. And a flexible ratchet. I have sockets 6-17mm.

[BoldUlysses]

You'll need a can of PB Blaster for the exhaust bolts. Forgot that one.

-Matt

[89 bimmer]

Pb blaster?

Nevermind, I just googled it. I thought messing with the exhaust was bad news in general. The brackets can break, then you're in a real pickle.

[BoldUlysses]

I thought messing with the exhaust was bad news in general. The brackets can break, then you're in a real pickle.

You'll need to remove the exhaust to drop the driveshaft. Soak the bolts and nuts with PB before you do anything else, tap with a wrench to get the solvent moving through the threads. When it comes time to remove the exhaust, a good set with a 6-point socket, a good yank and they should pop loose. Not a big deal.

-Matt

[89 bimmer]

You'll need to remove the exhaust to drop the driveshaft. Soak the bolts and nuts with PB before you do anything else, tap with a wrench to get the solvent moving through the threads. When it comes time to remove the exhaust, a good set with a 6-point socket, a good yank and they should pop loose. Not a big deal.

-Matt

Sounds intense. I hope this is a lot easier than it sounds.

[BoldUlysses]

Well, it is an engine swap. It's not an oil change, but it's not rocket science, either. I look at it as a long series of relatively simple tasks.

One of the upsides is that after it's all said and done, you'll know your way around the car's engine bay with your eyes closed. :)

Also forgot to mention: Get a good floor jack (this (http://www.stthomasrentall.com/floor%20jack.jpg), not this (http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00MeAEQlCaaLkR/Hydraulic-Floor-Jack.jpg) or this (http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/144327_lg.jpg))and two pairs of sturdy jack stands. You'll be underneath your car a lot.

-Matt

[89 bimmer]

I have a great 5 ton jack. And I have 2 3ton stands and 2 2ton stands. I want to do an engine swap, but I have to get my dads ok. If he says no, ill have to figure something out. A down side of being 18.

Edit: I have 3 of the first kind.

[bolloc]

I have a great 5 ton jack. And I have 2 3ton stands and 2 2ton stands. I want to do an engine swap, but I have to get my dads ok. If he says no, ill have to figure something out. A down side of being 18.

Edit: I have 3 of the first kind.

Just use the father son bonding argument, 'the car project we can do together'.

[89 bimmer]

Just use the father son bonding argument, 'the car project we can do together'.

That's the excuse I used last time.

[bolloc]

That's the excuse I used last time.

This time play the song "Cats In The Cradle" in the background when you suggest it.....

[bfp9]

This time play the song "Cats In The Cradle" in the background when you suggest it.....
:lolfool proof!

[M Quick]

So, what was the answer to my previous question? Does the engine even roll over? Or did i missunderstand you? Seems like it won't even turn over judging that people are giving you advice about swapping engines..

And just curious, have you tryed to start the car with a fresh and known healthy or new battery? If not, give that a try before you come to any hasty conclusions.

Hope you sort it out one way or another!

[roche90]

definitely a head gasket, i'd check the lower manifold gasket. that's what happened to my old car but its not junk. costly and frustrating but nothing like a blown piston or something

[89 bimmer]

The starter "tested good". I put a known battery that's good in the car, and I get a terrible metalic scraping noise coming from the bay. Matt commented it may be the gear not disengaging from the flywheel. I checked the oil dip stick, and it was like hot chocolate. So after a lot of cursing the PO, I drained the oil. It was a tan color. I am in the process of getting a new filter, but with no transportation, its a bit hard.

In the process of taking the starter out, I disconnected the top radiator hose, and the hose for the coolant tank in the back on the engine bay. Coolant, needless to say, was spilled when disconnecting the hoses, and I HOPE that's how's it got in the oil.

That's all I have done with the car since I bought it 3 days before christmas.

[bolloc]

In the process of taking the starter out, I disconnected the top radiator hose, and the hose for the coolant tank in the back on the engine bay. Coolant, needless to say, was spilled when disconnecting the hoses, and I HOPE that's how's it got in the oil.

The only way for you to have spilled the coolant into the oil would be if the engine was opened up or the oil cap removed. By opened up I mean something like the valve cover was removed. Or if you poured it directly into the intake manifold.

Furthermore even though your description of the oil hasn't really been consistent it does sound suspect. Coolant MIXED with the oil will turn the oil a darkish milky color, a little coolant spilled into the non running engine probably wouldn't be noticeable during the draining out process.

Oh, and spilling coolant into the hole where the starter goes will not cause it to enter into the engine where the oil resides.

[89 bimmer]

Sorry about it being inconsistant. I'm trying to figure out a spot on description. And since I'm doing all the posting from my droid, I can't upload a picture. Plus the fact that I'm colorblind and relying on someone elses description is an utter debacle also. Thanks for sticking with me. :)

[M Quick]

Chocolate, milkshake, tan oil? Well then, headgasket it is!

[89 bimmer]

Awesome...

On a side note, I haven't seen you in a while miche. How's your project coming along? Been away from the forums a while

[89 bimmer]

Awesome...

On a side note, I haven't seen you in a while miche. How's your project coming along? Been away from the forums a while

[clevertd]

You'll need to remove the exhaust to drop the driveshaft. Soak the bolts and nuts with PB before you do anything else, tap with a wrench to get the solvent moving through the threads. When it comes time to remove the exhaust, a good set with a 6-point socket, a good yank and they should pop loose. Not a big deal.

-Matt

False:) Just unbolt the hangers from the muffler and other spots throughout the under body, lower the exhaust, and you can remove the driveshaft. Joel and I did this a month ago for my car.

[BoldUlysses]

False:) Just unbolt the hangers from the muffler and other spots throughout the under body, lower the exhaust, and you can remove the driveshaft. Joel and I did this a month ago for my car.

Touché. :D But he'll still have to unbolt the exhaust from the manifold, whether or not he drops the rest of it from the car, so the PB should come in handy.

-Matt

[89 bimmer]

After talking to my dad, the engine swap may wait. Neither of us can commit the energy to it right now, since we are getting a house ready for the market. While I do have idle time, he doesn't, and it is deffinatly a 2 person job. Probably just going to fix the suspension for now until I can commit the time to do an engine swap. (Hoping very soon)

[BoldUlysses]

Understood. Keep us posted!

-Matt

[ElleShooTiger]

If you have a bunch of idle time, start clearing out the engine bay and engine of extras in order to expedite the swap: remove sensors, hoses, radiator, wiring harnesses, etc. Heck, even unbolt the engine mounts. Once you've done that, the engine can be out and the new one in in only a few hours.

Also, while you're waiting, try to get a new(er) engine and start replacing the gaskets and hoses on it, then when you're ready to swap, it'll be ready to go.

Last week I found a 1997 528i at the junkyard, I'm trying to learn how its put together and started taking it apart. Within about 2 hours, I had removed enough on and around the engine to be ready to take it out haha!

[89 bimmer]

Sorry guys, let me give you a little more background on the whole picture going on right now.

I own 2 535I, an 89, and a 90.

The 1989 535 is my origianl car, my first love, and the silver car many of you guys know.

On thanksgiving night I got a call from a close friend, saying he was drunk and needed a ride home. I have always been the DD, since I don't drink. I picked him up, drove him to his house around 1 am. I began my drive home, a little annoyed at the late hour. It had rained earlier in the day, and I was doing 45 in a 45mph zone. I crossed an intersection with a very nice mercedes beside me. As I came through the light, I felt my car slip out on me. My car turned left, towards the mercedes, and I jerked the wheel right. In a matter of 2 seconds my car went from straight, to slightly left, to completly perpendicular to the road, facing right. My car caught traction, and I shbot up a banking, into some brush. I jerked to a stop. I looked around to see if I hit anyone else. No, just me, so I sighed in relief. Then I looked around, and saw nothing I had hit, put my car in reverse and tried to back out. No luck, my wheels just spun. I looked around, all I see are bushes, and a huge tree about 3 feet in diameter about 3 inches in front of my left front fender. A near miss for a death. But I don't see where I'm stuck. Then I see a stump about 9 inches in diameter and a foot tall lodged under my left wheel well. The stump stopped my car, and saved my life. After I gave a quick prayer to the big guy up top, I called my dad, and AAA.

Flash forward 2 days, we go outside to assess the damage. Tyhe left front wheel was messed up obviously, but I never guessed this bad. All in all, I broke the control arm off the cross member, sheered a tie rod end in half, broke a sway bar, and ripped up the left side of the bumper. Estimated cost, around $700 total.

Forward 3 weeks, whbile looking through craigslist, I find a beautiful 1990 535I. I call the guy, and set up a day to buy it. We go to look at it 3 days before christmas, and he tells me the battery is dead, as it was sitting 6 months, so no test drive. I pop the hood, everything looks in place. I give him the money, and get it towed home. The PO claims if I put a new battery in, the car will run. I put a new battery in, the starter only clicks. So we take the starter out, and the process ensued that I have written about.

I am in school right now, mooching a ride off a friend. That won't work for long. I have the parts I need to fix the silver one, but I would much perfer the gold one to be my main car.

Now you guys know a bit more about what I'm looking at, I'm on about a $400 budget, since I'm not working, and in school.

Hope this helps you guys see what I'm working with.

By the way, I have access to both cars at my house, they are about 10 steps from each other.

[ElleShooTiger]

If the 89 has only bolt-on damaged parts, then either buy new ones, or swap in the good parts from the 90 and most definitely get an alignment! That will get you back on the road until you can fix the 90's engine. Shouldnt take more than a day to get the suspension fixed.

[89 bimmer]

I have an existing alignment package that's good until july. I can take the car in any day for free balance, rotation, and alignment. But if I take these parts off, I will ultimatly have to replace them to get the gold car running. Is the crossmeber an easy replacement? Just bolts off, slap it on, and bolts back on?

[89 bimmer]

I have an existing alignment package that's good until july. I can take the car in any day for free balance, rotation, and alignment. But if I take these parts off, I will ultimatly have to replace them to get the gold car running. Is the crossmeber an easy replacement? Just bolts off, slap it on, and bolts back on?

[M Quick]

Awesome...

On a side note, I haven't seen you in a while miche. How's your project coming along? Been away from the forums a while

.....Not!

I would definately swap in the engine from your first love if that car is in such a nice condition! Then you would have the "heart" left from her still!


I've been busy learning about photography and then ofcourse my daughter requires alot of time too, so haven't had much time for that, though at these times when it's cold outside, i don't really mind, much happens in a year :)
Thanks for asking!



I have an existing alignment package that's good until july. I can take the car in any day for free balance, rotation, and alignment. But if I take these parts off, I will ultimatly have to replace them to get the gold car running. Is the crossmeber an easy replacement? Just bolts off, slap it on, and bolts back on?


The crossmember is an interresting part to change out, especially if you're gonna switch them from one car to another.
Practically unbolting the engine and have an engine hoist or something that can hold it up while you're removing it..
But sure, it's much easier to do than an engine swap. Much.

Would love to see some pics of the fine fiver!

[zubbie]

Your starter problem is due to the fact that when you let an M30 sit for a while the starter gearshaft gets corroded and will not engage the flywheel. Happened to me twice. The clicking is the solenoid trying to push the starter gear into place but failing. You can try to lubricate the shaft or buy a good used starter.

[89 bimmer]

Would it be worth the effort to put the starter from the original car into the silver one, or am I wasting my time?

I'm gonna try to post the pictures of my car from my droid. If they are slopy, or links are long, I am sorry.

First the oil drained from the car:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/Audrey/IMG_20110106_120136.jpg

Headlights:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/IMG_20110106_115835.jpg

Interior 1:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/IMG_20110106_115950.jpg

Interior 2:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/Audrey/IMG_20110106_120349.jpg

Rims with dust sheild:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/Audrey/IMG_20110106_120238.jpg

Glorious paint job:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/IMG_20110106_115759.jpg

Engine bay 1:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/Audrey/IMG_20110106_120041.jpg

Engine bay 2:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/IMG_20110106_120005.jpg

More to come, I just wanted to give you guys an idea. Some of my pictures corrupted, otherwise you could see more of the body.