What are the chances that a 203K M3 still has good vanos?

[dcroghan]

I was just wondering.....my car does not make any 'marbles in a can' or rattling noises when I rev it.

It does not feel like the vanos is bad but I wonder if I just can't tell because I am used to being in it for so long.

What do you think?

[Xiphos]

Chances are the seals are bad. Rubber does fade over time. Gears could still be good if you don't have the "marble in a can" sound, but I would almost guarantee that the seals are bad.

Besian Systems has a good seal repair kit to fix the seals.

[kevinwilly]

Zero.

If the vanos is that old, with that many miles on it, there is NO chance it is working properly.

Some of them just never rattle. The tolerances of the bearing rings that cause the rattle are not tight enough, which is why they rattle. But because of what that means, you get some toward the right end of the tolerance, and they are exactly perfect- so they might never rattle. Not to say that you shouldn't replace it while you are in there. Mine did not start to rattle until 185k.

But yeah- I was skeptical because my car was running and driving perfect, but about 500 miles after I put in the seals, I floored it one day and was amazed that it went like it did. Pretty dramatic.

[dcroghan]

Zero.

If the vanos is that old, with that many miles on it, there is NO chance it is working properly.

Some of them just never rattle. The tolerances of the bearing rings that cause the rattle are not tight enough, which is why they rattle. But because of what that means, you get some toward the right end of the tolerance, and they are exactly perfect- so they might never rattle. Not to say that you shouldn't replace it while you are in there. Mine did not start to rattle until 185k.

But yeah- I was skeptical because my car was running and driving perfect, but about 500 miles after I put in the seals, I floored it one day and was amazed that it went like it did. Pretty dramatic.


this is sort of what I was thinking...my dad's M roadster was making the noise so he replaced his and he said the same thing. I guess that is the next thing I need to add to my list.

[Volf]

At 203k I'd just replace it anyway regardless of if its still working properly. Because it won't be working properly for much longer. :D

[BeansM3]

^ this!

Mine works and I have 204k, but you can hear the rattle coming from it. Pisses me off.

[Badgtho is back]

^ this!

Mine works and I have 204k, but you can hear the rattle coming from it. Pisses me off.

so you've manually tested it and measured how far it extrudes/rotates? exactly.

neither yours, nor the OPs will work with that many miles. period.


i've replaced 3 of these.. cars with less than a half your mileage.

[BeansM3]

Considering I just had my car at TRM and they told me it was still functioning. I'm going to take a professionals word. The car pulls like all hell. If it wasn't working I would notice a lack of power. Which its not.

[kevinwilly]

No, you DON'T notice the lack of power. Car still feels like it pulls hard, but then you replace it and it REALLY pulls hard. Like I said, I was amazed.

Anyways- I have seen Vanos units taken apart with around 40-50k miles on them, and the seals were totally failed. The rubber that BMW uses sucks donkey balls.

[desynch]

At 157k miles, my Vanos is shot. Dyno test confirms the suspicion.

Then again, the car didn't feel torquey at 90k miles, so I'm assuming it's long been "dead".

[dcroghan]

shouldn't you be able to tell if the car has a surge of power around 3500 rpm when floored?

[fun2drive]

OK 274K miles and I refreshened by head and rebuilt my VANOS. It was fine it worked fine so this bull about no way will it be OK is too variable to be factual.
What did I find?
What you would expect
Seal was hard as hell but the O ring was just as hard.
VANOS cylinder wear, piston was perfect.
Use Besian new O ring and seal and reinstalled and it again works just fine? How do I know? Because I have another M3 with just 81K miles and they pull the same. Plus the wear on the cylinder tells me it is working.

For what it is worth it is not that hard a job to do but takes a lot of disassembly to get the job done.

$40 bucks is what I think I paid for the kit. I expected my VANOS to be shot and the O ring/seal to be gone and they weren't, O ring was hard as the seal however.

Frankly I was impressed that the VANOS was still working so as they say YMMV...

[BeansM3]

No, you DON'T notice the lack of power. Car still feels like it pulls hard, but then you replace it and it REALLY pulls hard. Like I said, I was amazed.

Anyways- I have seen Vanos units taken apart with around 40-50k miles on them, and the seals were totally failed. The rubber that BMW uses sucks donkey balls.


I'm not a BMW expert by any means so I will just stop getting into more than I know. I really can't imagine my e36 m3 w/204k miles to be any faster than it is. I was truely surprised. You may have more experience but hey, everyones is different.

[kevinwilly]

All I'm saying is that I was VERY surprised. I figured it would not make a big difference... I did it because mine started to rattle, so I just did the seal while I was in there.

It took a few weeks to break in, but when it did, the difference was there.

I am exposed to more vanos stuff than pretty much anyone on here, though. Since buying the kit from Beisan systems, I've gotten to be pretty good friends with the owner. We hit the bike trails a few times a week, and he tells me all kinds of stories. So yeah- I'd say 95% or more of the time, there is an improvement.

[FreeFlow]

i want to do this job and have only basic tools. I would like to know what tools I need, where to buy them and how much everything will run me. Along with the estimated time to do the job..... Please note that I am very scared to mess up the timing. How easy is it to get that right the first time around?

[sharpie1k]

You need the camshaft locks to keep timing correct. I suppose some people will tell you that you don't need them, but to truly be safe, you should use them anyway.

[E36BMW3series]

Anyone who needs tools for this let me know. I have them sitting in my toolbox. I will make a deal with the people who post in this thread. $25 will pay for the rental and shipping both ways. (I still will require a deposite)

Check the link in my sig and send me a PM if interested.

[dcroghan]

i want to do this job and have only basic tools. I would like to know what tools I need, where to buy them and how much everything will run me. Along with the estimated time to do the job..... Please note that I am very scared to mess up the timing. How easy is it to get that right the first time around?

just go to www.drvanos.com

[garyk]

If you want to go the alternative route to Dr. Vanos, look at Beisan. I just did their seal and rattle fix on mine (even though mine was operating fine and did not rattle...just doing preventative work along with secondary chain tensioner). On the Beisan website you'll find their procedures (which are quite good) and in there they tell you how to find the cam lock tools, flywheel lock, and cam gear wrench on ebay. I bought that tool set from ebay and can recommend it along with the seller. Also, Beisan sells on their site a modified socket and soft vice jaws for doing the rattle fix, and it's worth it to just buy that stuff from them if you don't already have it.

Personally, I think if you know what you're doing this job can be done without the speciality tools. But, I'd really recommend them to make it as easy as possible. You can always sell the tools later (which I may do myself).

[Badgtho is back]

I'm not a BMW expert by any means so I will just stop getting into more than I know. I really can't imagine my e36 m3 w/204k miles to be any faster than it is. I was truely surprised. You may have more experience but hey, everyones is different.


you have no idea what you're talking about.

your vanos is not working properly with that many miles.. period.

only the solenoid can be tested without dissassembly.