Cut the springs for a ghetto low or just get cheap-o springs?

[e36LeMons]

For our 24 hours of Lemons e36 we are debating whether to cut our springs to lower the car or to cut some funds out of our $500 budget for lowering springs. Will cutting the springs help or hurt the handling? It will lower the center of gravity and probably stiffen the suspension but will it throw off the handling?

[SethuM]

racelandus.com
do it!

[e36LeMons]

racelandus.com
do it!


$300 for coilovers is hella cheap but we only have a little over $130 left in our build budget.

[AceM3 of WCE]

Whatever you do DO NOT CUT!!

Get a set of used H&R springs. if only you werent so far id sell you my spare set of 325 lowered suspension.

[EverydayGetaway]

I'd be willing to bet it'll ruin the handling more than help it. I assume you're sticking with the stock struts/shocks?

[AceM3 of WCE]

Well you can, not for long though bc they end up bleeding out.

I usually use Bilstein shocks, no complain there yet. IMO

[e36LeMons]

I'd be willing to bet it'll ruin the handling more than help it. I assume you're sticking with the stock struts/shocks?

Yes, we'd be keeping the stock shocks and struts.

[fast84gti]

Cutting springs is not a bad thing. At all. The only issue is to not cut with much heat. Cutting with a die grinder and cutting disc is best bet. Maybe with coil sitting in bucket of water to keep it cool. Although you may not know the stiffness of the springs after cutting them, I know it will be better than factory. Go ahead and cut. Wish I could help you with the shocks. I know people have cut the tubes down and rewelded them! Or even cutting the shaft down and having the threads cut in. I have cut springs on many cars with no ill effects if you keep the amount you cut realistic. I have never cut rear springs due to the bend of coil at bottom used to seat...
Keep in mind, I am running high quality suspension on my car at the moment. I am only telling you this so that you can have a better handling car on the cheap. You issue is only going to be shocks. They might last you the race depending on how beat they are. I cut some springs and autocrossed on crappy Boge shocks for a whole season (on my VW). Only blew out a year later. I was actually surprised they lasted that long! I am curious to see what route you go. Good luck :D

[ChuckDizzle]

don't cut the springs. Just get used ones or cheap ass coilovers. Cutting springs will ruin the ride characteristics. And it would take time to cut it properly and then to make sure it seats correctly in the spring perch. (for safety)

I sold my H&R sport springs for $80

[Dash01]

Apples vs. oranges: One of the E34 guys cut his springs by one coil, careful not to heat the spring so as to change its temper. He said it worked pretty well and lowered the car by ~1" with no ill effects, but not as good as a spring designed to lower the car.

However, the E34 spring may not change in diameter and helical pitch, so the spring still fit its seats properly after the cut. (I think he cut the upper end, but am not sure.)

E36 springs may have change in pitch and diameter, and if so, may no longer fit the contoured seats.

Does anybody here know more about this, for sure?

[usherboy83]

ive worked with guys that restore classic cars and speed shops and ive seen them all cut aftermarket springs to get desired height. they all agree that as long as you dont cut too much you should be fine, but this is def for rides that arent driven every day...i think with an e36 u would be fine as long as u didnt heat the springs, clamp them, or cut them way too much, and try setting the strut mount so the spring fits the contour of the bottom of the strut....i dont think ud have too many problems, but if u can find a cheap, used set of lowering springs, id go that route first

[bebout]

You can't cut E36 springs. The only thing to do to them is heat. Here's the cool thing about heat, you don't even have to jack up the car and shouldn't take more than 20 minutes to do. Ask me how I know... You can flame and say it will do this or that, but you won't change my mind. They will not bounce you off the road or make the car handle "crazy" or "wierd". It rides and handles no different than stock. If you're on a budget, go for it. I did mine so I could kill that awful wheel gap, while I'm saving for my coilovers.

[ganzibye]

get a cheapo is better than cut springs.

[RomanTaylor]

Our shop Chump car sitting on cut springs. Handles much better than stock, but we do have Koni shocks/struts. Bounciness is the only downside really.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs993.snc4/76616_1682305304281_1437034884_1776397_3299925_n.j pg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1123.snc4/148561_1682260943172_1437034884_1776150_3807322_n. jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs897.snc4/73020_1675470453414_1437034884_1762070_4086008_n.j pg

[Moron95M3]

if you try cutting them, you can always replace them if the dont work out with something better within your budget.

My two cents. GL with it! I'm planning on lemons or GRM'ing a 3.5L powered E30 soon :) (prolly GRM)

[Dash01]

You can't cut E36 springs. The only thing to do to them is heat. Here's the cool thing about heat, you don't even have to jack up the car and shouldn't take more than 20 minutes to do. Ask me how I know... You can flame and say it will do this or that, but you won't change my mind. They will not bounce you off the road or make the car handle "crazy" or "wierd". It rides and handles no different than stock. If you're on a budget, go for it. I did mine so I could kill that awful wheel gap, while I'm saving for my coilovers.

Are the E36 springs case-hardened steel? They are so hard that, say, a Dremel tool with fiber-reinforced ceramic cutting disk will not cut?

The Dremel thing cuts pretty much everything I ever tired, like butta. But, I never tried an E36 or any other car spring, so can't say. One would think such Dremel tool with ceramic disk would generate little heat, and what heat there was, could be attenuated by: 1.) squirting a bit of cutting fluid into the groove, and; 2.) wrapping the coil next to the cut with a wet rag to absorb and dissipate what little heat there may be, so one would not have to worry about change in temper of the steel spring.

Now, this is just my theory, having not tried it nor made any recommendation as to the safety or efficacy of such procedure, so anybody trying this would have to assume any risk. One might also think that if a torch could cut the spring while on the car, the Dremel idea might also work on the car, if and only if the spring were safely and properly retained by, say, strong nylon strapping or strut-compression clamps.

This whole idea assumes the cut spring still fits the contour of the spring retainer shelf, which it may or may not be. Looking at pics of E36 struts, it looks like at least one end of the coiled spring is tapered, so that end would not mate to its shelf after cutting. So, what's up with which end to cut?

[bebout]

E36 springs are tapered on the ends so if you cut them they will not fit back on the mounts safely or correctly. The "heat" I was referring to, is a torch. Heat the springs while the load of the car is on them. Once you hold the heat on the spring for a second you will see the car start to lower. Don't over do it, cause they will slowly drop a little more while they cool.

[e36LeMons]

E36 springs are tapered on the ends so if you cut them they will not fit back on the mounts safely or correctly. The "heat" I was referring to, is a torch. Heat the springs while the load of the car is on them. Once you hold the heat on the spring for a second you will see the car start to lower. Don't over do it, cause they will slowly drop a little more while they cool.

It sounds like using a torch will be the way to go. How far can we lower the car this way? I'd love to see it slammed just for the cool factor. :buttrock

[DJCarbine]

I'm pretty sure you can collapse the entire spring if you want with a torch, it would be "hella slammed" :stickoutt

[Dash01]

E36 springs are tapered on the ends so if you cut them they will not fit back on the mounts safely or correctly. The "heat" I was referring to, is a torch. Heat the springs while the load of the car is on them. Once you hold the heat on the spring for a second you will see the car start to lower. Don't over do it, cause they will slowly drop a little more while they cool.


Hmmmm. That way, you have exactly the same amount of spring steel before and after, just coiled a bit tighter, and the tapered ends still fit their contoured shelves.

Could maybe make wood spacers of correct thickness, put under the car hard point, so when the heated spring sags, the car drops only as far as the wood spacers will allow, and not too far. A stack of, say, 1/2" thick board sections would allow you to do this in stages: Need more drop, remove another 1/2" spacer from the stack, reheat spring.

How hot should the springs be? Cherry red? Or, just wave the torch gently back and forth over a section of spring, heating it as evenly as possible?

Would a propane torch be hot enough?

Thoughts?

[bebout]

It sounds like using a torch will be the way to go. How far can we lower the car this way? I'd love to see it slammed just for the cool factor. :buttrock

I wouldn't get crazy with it, or you may run into crappy ride. If you go too low, the struts will bottom out too much and will be toast quickly.




I'm pretty sure you can collapse the entire spring if you want with a torch, it would be "hella slammed" :stickoutt

Yes.




Hmmmm. That way, you have exactly the same amount of spring steel before and after, just coiled a bit tighter, and the tapered ends still fit their contoured shelves.

Could maybe make wood spacers of correct thickness, put under the car hard point, so when the heated spring sags, the car drops only as far as the wood spacers will allow, and not too far. A stack of, say, 1/2" thick board sections would allow you to do this in stages: Need more drop, remove another 1/2" spacer from the stack, reheat spring.

How hot should the springs be? Cherry red? Or, just wave the torch gently back and forth over a section of spring, heating it as evenly as possible?

Would a propane torch be hot enough?

Thoughts?

Using something to limit the drop is possible. It's been done numerous times with many different ways of limiting. A propane torch will not heat it enough. An acetylene torch is best, just be sure not to hit the lever to give it that burst to cut. If you do this, you will be buying new springs.

[wbarfels]

You can cut any springs, but please don't...Its a beemer not a 92 honda from mexico (No offence to mexico, but if youve been there you know what im talking about)
Remember coilover will ride rougher, But the BMW coilovers have bigger springs than most..

Everyone Caps on Racelands, and there not the best, but there better than cut springs, and they come with new shocks / struts so that may be the best (Cheap) way to go, Bang for your Buck and all that. So use those, or get Eibach Lowering Springs...there only like $75 more than the cheap lowering springs...NEVER cut your coils....Don't be that guy! Also with the Racelands you can take the stock struts out with the coils attached as one piece, which makes it easier to do, and easier to put back.

Oh and even with the wood blocks, The heat never gets Distributed Evenly, So they never lower in the same place... And Ive yet to see it turn out well, and Im speaking from Experience, Sadly to say.... Especially when you have other options that are so cheap, and it's nice to have stocks laying around to fall back on.

And MOST Importantly, whenever you lower your car, your going to need an alignment, which will run you $55 to $200 Depending on whos doing it. Factor that into the cost of having it aligned on your temporary cut / heated springs...and then again when you get real coilovers / springs.. It's much cheaper to just get the Right ones (Even if there Racelands) the first time around!

And a quick Side note, Ive used A dremel to cut through car springs without any trouble...took a six pack of Cutting discs though, and when you dont have another car on hand to get more, can be problematic

[bebout]

Go ahead and cut E36 springs and you'll have a useless coil of metal laying around. Sure you can "cut any spring", whether or not it will go back on the car is another matter. The only way I would waste money on a set of aftermarket springs, is if it was a permanent mod and not a temporary solution.

[Jaws]

you should just go with racelands.. can always sell them if your car craps out lol

[e36LeMons]

you should just go with racelands.. can always sell them if your car craps out lol

Remember, we are limited to $500 TOTAL to buy a car and get it race ready(except safety equipment). We spent $350 for the car and $20 on a radiator which leaves us $130 left for anything else. I'd buy a set of racelands of we could get them for $100.

[slocar]

^ Try contacting Raceland? Maybe they'd give you a good discount if you plaster a giant sticker on your car in return?

Can't hurt to ask, right?

[e36LeMons]

^ Try contacting Raceland? Maybe they'd give you a good discount if you plaster a giant sticker on your car in return?

Can't hurt to ask, right?

Not a bad idea!

[zajapoolala]

Ok So I have an e36 that I recently cut the springs on. This is your best bet. I used a cut off wheel and In the front I cut one length off. What I mean by one length os I cut one 360 circle off the bottom of the spring and on the rear I just cut about a half a circle off the top of each spring. It Def. gave it a very aggressive look and I have been professionally drifting for about 3 years now and when cutting the springs on my e36 it def. handles alot nicer. Stiffened the ride some. and made it an overall funner car to drive.

The downfall
Sock springs have a flat top and a flat bottom so they sit in the top and bottom strut plats securely so when cutting the springs it does not sit flat in the plates witch could be dangerous when under stress if it happened to slip out of the bottom strut plate. also when you go over speed bumps and such you can here the springs making noise and re adjusting in the strut witch is not good This is why aftermarket springs are basically stock springs cut down they add flat tops and bottoms make them sit securely in the strut.

What I did and what I would for anyone planning on cutting your springs is to cut them to size and Weld the top of the spring to the top strut plate and weld the bottom of the spring to the bottom of the strut plate so it securely stays in the strut. Its ghetto but It works just as good at lowering springs if you are on a budget.

[e36LeMons]

Ok So I have an e36 that I recently cut the springs on. This is your best bet. I used a cut off wheel and In the front I cut one length off. What I mean by one length os I cut one 360 circle off the bottom of the spring and on the rear I just cut about a half a circle off the top of each spring. It Def. gave it a very aggressive look and I have been professionally drifting for about 3 years now and when cutting the springs on my e36 it def. handles alot nicer. Stiffened the ride some. and made it an overall funner car to drive.

The downfall
Sock springs have a flat top and a flat bottom so they sit in the top and bottom strut plats securely so when cutting the springs it does not sit flat in the plates witch could be dangerous when under stress if it happened to slip out of the bottom strut plate. also when you go over speed bumps and such you can here the springs making noise and re adjusting in the strut witch is not good This is why aftermarket springs are basically stock springs cut down they add flat tops and bottoms make them sit securely in the strut.

What I did and what I would for anyone planning on cutting your springs is to cut them to size and Weld the top of the spring to the top strut plate and weld the bottom of the spring to the bottom of the strut plate so it securely stays in the strut. Its ghetto but It works just as good at lowering springs if you are on a budget.


Good info. As much as I would love to have new coilovers, and even if we got them to fit in our budget, shinny adjustable coilovers would more than likely net us enough BS laps to take us out of the competition.

[AceM3 of WCE]

Why not just leave it at stock height then, its a safety issue and not to mention ghetto.

Now dont get me wrong here ive cut springs before, but I learned my lesson, everyones

experience is different but how do you know your outcome will be ok?

For example, would you drill holes in your stock rotors to get a crossdrilled pattern?

[Dash01]

Ok So I have an e36 that I recently cut the springs on. This is your best bet. I used a cut off wheel and In the front I cut one length off. What I mean by one length os I cut one 360 circle off the bottom of the spring and on the rear I just cut about a half a circle off the top of each spring. It Def. gave it a very aggressive look and I have been professionally drifting for about 3 years now and when cutting the springs on my e36 it def. handles alot nicer. Stiffened the ride some. and made it an overall funner car to drive.

The downfall
Sock springs have a flat top and a flat bottom so they sit in the top and bottom strut plats securely so when cutting the springs it does not sit flat in the plates witch could be dangerous when under stress if it happened to slip out of the bottom strut plate. also when you go over speed bumps and such you can here the springs making noise and re adjusting in the strut witch is not good This is why aftermarket springs are basically stock springs cut down they add flat tops and bottoms make them sit securely in the strut.

What I did and what I would for anyone planning on cutting your springs is to cut them to size and Weld the top of the spring to the top strut plate and weld the bottom of the spring to the bottom of the strut plate so it securely stays in the strut. Its ghetto but It works just as good at lowering springs if you are on a budget.

When you used a cutoff saw, did you make the cut in a plane parallel to the plane formed by the original spring end? In other words, the original spring essentially describes the shape of a cylinder, like a big sausage. So, did you cut it like cutting slices off a sausage for pizza? This would leave the pigtail end of the spring tapered as it intersects the plane of the cut.

Or, did you just cut perpendicular to the ~1/2" thick coiled metal?

[coconutmnky]

protip: real men run with no springs

[wbarfels]

If were talking about a $350 car here, and you can't get the Racelands for $300 which would be your best bet because you would have new shock and springs....Then Cutting them is your only option.
That is only if you cannot find some used Springs...That is really the way to go on that budget, If not then your only option is to cut them! But don't weld them back together, that would never hold. just get 1 -2 lengths off and be done with it. For a $350 car that is.

[dcskate102]

Why are you using a e36 anyway? I hope everyone shuns you at the track.

[jackxc925]

E36 front springs get "narrower" at the top, but the perches aren't fixed to anything, they can rotate to meet the spring. So there is nothing that makes it necessary to take exactly one coil. You could take a 1/4 or an 1/8 or 7/16 for all it matters.

If I were to cut springs I would do it from the bottom because the springs get narrower at the top like I said above. So cutting from the bottom would not mess up the way the spring seats on its perch, and you would not run into any issues.

I would bet that your stock shocks would last one race. You could probably pick up an extra set of stock shocks for less than $100. I've got a full set of M3 stock suspension for $30 without rear shocks.

Also, racelands are worse than stock suspension, their spring rates blow, and so do rokkor's. People that think they're great are either ignoring that or they just want to be slammed to the ground.

[e36LeMons]

Why are you using a e36 anyway? I hope everyone shuns you at the track.

That car was destined for the crusher. If you think about it, we saved a perfectly good BMW. Do you have a better idea for a $350 car? But thanks for your support.