Budget 1000w system help

[Auto Parts Guy]

Just looking for some opinions; hoping this set-up would sync pretty well...
Money is the #1 driver.. Just lookin for a little bump in the trunk:buttrock
The Fosgate amp I wanted was $400 so scratch that...

$135 >> (1) 12" Pioneer TS-W3002D2 sub - 1000W RMS, 3500W PEAK - Dual 2 ohm Impedance
$73 >> (1) Lanzar MAXP1200 Monoblock amp - 450W RMS @ 4 ohms / 900W PEAK @ 2 ohms / 1800W PEAK @ 1 ohm
$30 >> (1) 1 Farad capacitor - eBay speacial
$20 >> (1) Homemade box out of 3/4" particle board ~1.0 cubic foot sealed
$10 >> In line fuse 60A? 75A?
$248 TOTAL

I have 2 batteries (may not need 2 but I have them) and a 120amp alternator.
I already have plenty of wiring, a Pioneer HU, Pioneer & Infinity mid range speakers, and Fosgate & Boss tweeters
I'll power these off my HU for now. All from the junkyard. Going in the trunk of my e36.

Links to sub & amp:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_16666_Pioneer+TS-W3002D2.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_25235_Lanzar+MAXP1200.html

[12v Electronics]

Just looking for some opinionsThat's easy!

[AngryWhopper]

I understand money might be tight, but i'd rather listen to nothing than to use the equipment your planning on buying.

[Auto Parts Guy]

I understand money might be tight, but i'd rather listen to nothing than to use the equipment your planning on buying.
Listening to nothing has gotten old.. can you elaborate a little on why nothing over this? Better alternatives for less money? Is my set-up wrong. :help

[greenE36]

Yeah, I wouldn't waste my money on any of that. I can offer more expensive alternatives...

[Auto Parts Guy]

Any single 12" sub/amp combos under $200 that you would recommend? Is it the amp that's so bad or the sub or both? Its gotta be better than going to walmart and getting the 12" Sony sub 350w RMS and the Crunch 500w amp for $110 total? :devillook
That's kinda like ordering a cheeseburger at a Mexican restaurant, no? Thanks for the replies so far, I do appreciate it.

[greenE36]

First off, the specs on the amp and sub don't mesh together. The amps max RMS is 450. Its peak (before cooking) is 900. The subs RMS is 1000.

[Auto Parts Guy]

Gotcha.. should I find an amp with 1000-1200 watts RMS at 2 ohms to power that sub? Or?
I guess a better question just in general is if the sub is 1000w RMS and 3500w peak with an impedance of 2 ohms, what amp specs should I be lookin at?

[rogan]

If the budget is all important then go 2nd hand. Capacitor is a waste of money so ditch that.

On a tight budget I'd be looking at something like the Fi X12 for $119 and then a 2nd hand amp to suit

[E39sofine]

Seriously, you can get JL or Alpine 2nd hand for just as cheap. I say drop the capacitor for now, then add later if you absolutely want to.

There ya go, lol: http://savannah.craigslist.org/ele/2021288421.html

No need for 1000W system when you're buying horribly low end equipment.

[Iambatman]

Definitely go used. You would be surprised at the nice stuff you can get for close to that price.

[attack eagle]

particle board will last about a month before it falls apart.

[Auto Parts Guy]

Used it is! I'll post up when I pull the trigger. Thank you all for the help. What type of board do I need from home depot for the box? Maybe I'm using the wrong term but I thought it was particle board?

[speedster]

you need mdf, medium density fiber board

[rogan]

Used it is! I'll post up when I pull the trigger. Thank you all for the help. What type of board do I need from home depot for the box? Maybe I'm using the wrong term but I thought it was particle board?

Post up before you pull trigger and we might be able to help more. Also check out the clasifieds section on diyma forum.

[306stang]

you can do a lot better than what you listed. also, for the same price you can get better subs than jl or alpine.

caraudioforums.com/forum

^^^ register here and start reading!!!! you'll be amazed

also, what are you going for? sound quality, spl? sql? that really narrows it down to what you buy and how you build the box? DO NOT buy some generic box. build one or have one built that matches the specs to your subs.

don't waste your money on a capacitor. you won't need it.

two batteries??? really?

the box is one of the most overlooked aspects with car audio. make sure to check out some of the build logs on that site. you'll get some good/general ideas on what you need to do.

[jfmjr442]

im looking to do something similar in my e36. I have all stock speakers which are fired after 15 years. what sort of speakers and sub should i get just to get a little kick?

[pcoaew]

You have to go used, and maybe not put your expectations so high.. lol

[DTM325PWR]

go used. search CL. decent stuff for $200. dont buy anyting you listed above. if you want a decent amp for the money to power that sub at 2ohm, look at audiopipes

[Auto Parts Guy]

Alright guys, just an update.. and a thank you to the help from everyone so far. Well I'm a far cry from my original 1k watts but I couldn't pass this deal up.

Rockford Fosgate Punch P300-1 for $40 barely used and still in the box. Craigslist find. Sorry for the crappy Droid pics.
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?cat_id=2&item_id=108231&locale=en_US&p_status=current
So now I'm in search for a single 12" sub need some more advice.

Should I be looking for a sub that is 2 ohm DVC? or????
Should I be looking for one that can handle ~300-400 watts RMS or go ahead and get the 1000watt+ RMS sub and upgrade amps later?
What brands should I be looking for (used preferably but new possibly)? Fosgate, JL, Alpine???

I found a JL 13W I wouldn't mind scooping up. Not sure which version though. With a box and a 550 watt Rampage amp for $200. I'd just sell the stuff I don't need. Would that JL be a good match for my RF amp?

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac38/automotiveminds/IMAG0192.jpg

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac38/automotiveminds/IMAG0193.jpg

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac38/automotiveminds/IMAG0194.jpg

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac38/automotiveminds/IMAG0195.jpg

[rogan]

you want a sub that is either:
single 2 ohm voice coil
dual 4 ohm voice coils

Be careful with JL subs, they run some stupid voice coil arrangement like dual 1.5ohms IIRC.

If it were me I'd look for an Image Dynamics IDQ15 v2 d4. The 15 is more efficient then the 12 or 10 so you'll get more bump, and it keeps up with transitions unlike some other 15"subs. The IDQ15 v2 is so ugly you know it has to sound good.

[Auto Parts Guy]

you want a sub that is either:
single 2 ohm voice coil
dual 4 ohm voice coils

Would there be a difference in sound between a single sub 2 ohm SVC versus a single sub 4 ohm DVC wired in parralell or is it pretty much 6 or half dozen, the DVC is just more versatile for load?

What about RMS watts? Should I look for the 1k sub with intentions to upgrade amp later or find one that better matches the amps RMS watts?
I guess what I'm asking is this: is there a difference in sound between a 1000w sub and a 400w sub ASSUMING all else is equal and I'm using the P300-1 in both scenarios?

I'll check that I'D sub out. thanks!

[Benny Z]

he already told you what sub to buy.

heed his advice.

[Auto Parts Guy]

& I will heed his advice. I am asking for my general knowledge.

[jasonk02]

honestly, I wouldnt try to cheap out on the equipment. I think it will reflect in the quality of the sound. I have a great set up in my E36 and managed on a good budget. I got an alpine type r 12 inch sub woofer brand new of amazon for 129.- and an mrp 500 with 500W RMS which is more than enough for 200. A box of amazon for 50 and the wiring. I allready had an aftermarket pioneer in dash radio which alone seemed to give me overall better audio quality.

All in all ill say do what you must to according to your budget but seriously think about investing in good quality equipment becuase i think it will give you overall better audio.

Jason

[Auto Parts Guy]

^ yeah I agree. I thought Rockford fosgate was a good brand???

[rogan]

AFAIK, not really any benefits/negative between SVC and DVC except for wiring options.

Another sub to look out for is a Boston Accoustics 12.5 LF. Good sounding subs but maybe not as loud as you'd want.

Soundstream Exact 12 is another option.

Since you seem to be wanting more bang and are worried about overall output then look into ported enclosures which generally give you increased output over sealed enclosures.

Don't get too hung up on power ratings. You've got about 400rms at 2 ohm so any sub rated 300rms+ should be happy. Ignore any power ratings not in rms. Alot of "1000w" amps are in some max or peak watts power ratings

[Auto Parts Guy]

AFAIK, not really any benefits/negative between SVC and DVC except for wiring options.

Another sub to look out for is a Boston Accoustics 12.5 LF. Good sounding subs but maybe not as loud as you'd want.

Soundstream Exact 12 is another option.

Since you seem to be wanting more bang and are worried about overall output then look into ported enclosures which generally give you increased output over sealed enclosures.

Don't get too hung up on power ratings. You've got about 400rms at 2 ohm so any sub rated 300rms+ should be happy. Ignore any power ratings not in rms. Alot of "1000w" amps are in some max or peak watts power ratings
Thanks man I appreciate your help. Yeah the more I read the clearer it's getting. Still a long way to go though. I've been eying the Kicker Solo Baric L7 and Fosgate Punch series and T1 & T2 on craigslist lately cause they seem to be fairly abundant. Getting out of my ideal spending range with the used T1 & T2 though. I checked on the IDQ but could only find the 10 & 12" versions around here. I'll check those other ones you mentioned too. Thanks again!

And just to clarify, the sub can be rated well above the output of the amp and still sound as good as a sub rated closer to the output of the amp? assume all else is equal and all is spoken in RMS.

[DTM325PWR]

Thanks man I appreciate your help. Yeah the more I read the clearer it's getting. Still a long way to go though. I've been eying the Kicker Solo Baric L7 and Fosgate Punch series and T1 & T2 on craigslist lately cause they seem to be fairly abundant. Getting out of my ideal spending range with the used T1 & T2 though. I checked on the IDQ but could only find the 10 & 12" versions around here. I'll check those other ones you mentioned too. Thanks again!

And just to clarify, the sub can be rated well above the output of the amp and still sound as good as a sub rated closer to the output of the amp? assume all else is equal and all is spoken in RMS.

stay away from the early L7/5's. the leads on those were weak. stay away from the black cones. punch series if trash. you want real kicker stuff, try to find some old school round solobarics! very clean subs. only solobaric i would buy. look for some old alumapro alchemy's too.

[attack eagle]

Would there be a difference in sound between a single sub 2 ohm SVC versus a single sub 4 ohm DVC wired in parralell or is it pretty much 6 or half dozen, the DVC is just more versatile for load?

What about RMS watts? Should I look for the 1k sub with intentions to upgrade amp later or find one that better matches the amps RMS watts?
I guess what I'm asking is this: is there a difference in sound between a 1000w sub and a 400w sub ASSUMING all else is equal and I'm using the P300-1 in both scenarios?

I'll check that I'D sub out. thanks!

If all else was equal? No difference.

but all else is not equal.
those measurements are of "heat" the sub can tolerate, generally.
AS you can see, its kinda like you are asking "my dash says 230degree maximum water temperature. yours is a 220 degree maximum, so if they both are running at 195 degrees, which car will be faster, have more hp, and get better mpg?"

it has no relevance to the question.

a 400w sub may be more efficient and sound better and louder than a 1000w sub, or it may not.

the only solos I'd consider are the old C12d.

and even the n there are better subs for what the hoarders want for them now.
I'd take an idq12v3 or an idmax12 anyday.

or an older paper cone NORMAL basket JBL power 12s (not the squat basketed ones from like 2005+)

[Auto Parts Guy]

Hey guys thanks for taking the time to comment.
I'll stay away from the early L7 & L5 and I'll check around for some alumapros or maybe the round solo barics.
I understand that analogy and it makes perfect sense thank you. I'm going to search a little harder for for an ID sub. I'll keep it updated.

[DTM325PWR]

Hey guys thanks for taking the time to comment.
I'll stay away from the early L7 & L5 and I'll check around for some alumapros or maybe the round solo barics.
I understand that analogy and it makes perfect sense thank you. I'm going to search a little harder for for an ID sub. I'll keep it updated.

http://savannah.craigslist.org/ele/2060515013.html

JUMP on these! Old school HX2's are monsters! Run 1 for now, get more power later and run the 2nd. DO IT!

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/ele/2029899756.html

those subs, with this amp. all you will need!

[Auto Parts Guy]

Man I tried to get those HX2s a couple days ago but he sold em already! I've gotta jump on a deal when I see it quick. Heading to Atlanta this weekend so I'll see what's there too. found 2 IDQ 12s in a box. They want 250 but I'm not sure what kind of deal that is?
http://hiltonhead.craigslist.org/ele/2085462121.html

Just found 2 Rockford Fosgate HX2 subs in a box for $125 I might try to pick up tomorrow. Maybe for $100. Sound ok?
He will sell them for $100 confirmed..

Picking them up tomorrow. Only gonna run one off that Punch 300 amp though. Thanks guys, I'll keep it updated.

[rogan]

found 2 IDQ 12s in a box. They want 250 but I'm not sure what kind of deal that is?
http://hiltonhead.craigslist.org/ele/2085462121.html


Doesn't say whether they are d2 or d4. I think you're better off with a single sub in a ported enclosure.

I had a HX2 about 8 years ago. Wouldn't call it old school or a monster. OK sub, nothing special

[Auto Parts Guy]

Yeah I asked them which model but they never responded. I would have only used one sub but I decided to go with the HX2 Fosgate for now.

I'll probably sell the other HX2 on ebay and sell the dual 12" sub box on Craigslist and roll with the single HX2 sub powered by the Punch 300 amp in a 2.0cu/ft ported box built from 3/4" or 1" MDF board. Hopefully I can get some of this accomplished this weekend. Thanks to ALL for the help!

what size in-line fuse with this set-up?

[bignickmetro]

stay away from the early L7/5's. the leads on those were weak. stay away from the black cones. punch series if trash. you want real kicker stuff, try to find some old school round solobarics! very clean subs. only solobaric i would buy. look for some old alumapro alchemy's too.

Black face are 2008+ only and are much stronger, i think you have this backwards. IMO a kicker L7 is the best bang for your buck. I have had RF P2s, Infinity Kappas and Perfects, Alpine type-Rs, Xplods. Kickers are BY FAR my sub of choice now. A single L7 12" in the right box (HUGE) will actually be competitive in sound competitions. I know two (!) people who have single 12" L7s and have blown out the glass in their hatchbacks with it. The L5s are good too if you don't need too much SPL.

Kicker also makes pretty good amps, I bought a zx.750 and it bench tested 940W RMS. I don't have it turned up very high and it absolutely destroys my other car with a kenwood 1000W amp and 2x alpine typeRs. The alpines are in a nice box, the L7 is in a box way way too small for it and it still absolutely outperforms them. Plus kenwood amps shit out if you wire them to 1-ohm even though they advertise that they can handle it. RF amps are very very nice but pricey. Stay away from any alpine V-power, they are absolute trash, but their PDX digital amps are amazing.

IMO get a kicker or JL monoblock amp. Then get kicker L5/L7 or RF subs, whichever you can find on CL so you don't eat a ton in shipping. Hold off on a cap. Don't worry about a wiring kit, go to a local car audio shop and buy whatever lengths of power wire you need by the foot. They will solder terminals on for a low price. I did my entire wiring and distribution block for about $18, all stranded 4 gauge.

BTW Alpine Type-Rs are like the single most overrated piece of audio equipment there is. People hold them up like they are the best, then cry when they sound like crap. If you don't think a L7 or L5 can handle SQ then they aren't done right or you are used to $10k setups.


EDIT: Oh BTW make sure you get a good aftermarket alarm ASAP. I have gotten full setups stolen from my car 3 times now, thats one of the reasons I have tried so many different brands. That and buying new cars :)

[Benny Z]

IMO a kicker L7 is the best bang for your buck. I have had RF P2s, Infinity Kappas and Perfects, Alpine type-Rs, Xplods. Kickers are BY FAR my sub of choice now.

...

If you don't think a L7 or L5 can handle SQ then they aren't done right or you are used to $10k setups.

your points of comparison for reference aren't exactly stellar examples of well performing subwoofers...more like typical consumer teeny-bopper crap.

op - stick w/ the IDQ or IDMax if you want high SPL.

[bignickmetro]

they are definitely typical consumer stuff but I wouldn't call a L7 or a Perfect crap. Not high end or anything I know but this is a budget build he's talking about. Plus kickers and RF are readily available on CL so you don't pay retail markup (ridiculously high) or shipping. And a lot of people on CL will let you hear it if its still hooked up so you can get an idea of how it sounds in an actual car, not just in a showroom. A 12" L7 is $579 WITHOUT BOX at audio express. I just sold mine on CL for $200 in a big ported box. I'm sure the OP could find similar deals. Also, sticking with name brand is important if you ever want to resell. You would find a buyer same day if you posted a L7 on CL, whereas most people have never even heard of ID or Hifonics. They just want something louder than their homies' Xplods.

oh and OP: with subs, the box is almost as important as the driver itself

[Auto Parts Guy]

Yeah budget is def a priority with this piece since its a want and not a need. So far I'm well within my budget. I almost had an L7 in a box for $100 yesterday but dude bought it before me. Resell plays a part in this too since I might not be 100% happy with my first couple purchases or combos. IDQ and ID Max subs along with Kicker and JL amps will be on my Craigslist app search so I'll see it right when one gets posted in case i wanna jump on it. This is my first system if its not blatantly obvious by some of my posts.. Never had one in high school or college. Late bloomer i guess.

I've read a little on boxes already but any tips or helpful links would be cool. Like I said, right now my plans are a 2ft^3 box with a 4" x 10.75" port home made from 3/4" or 1" MDF board slightly slanted on the sub side. Assuming I pick this Fosgate HX2 12" up tomorrow..

[bignickmetro]

I'll try and dig up some links from when I was building a box, had a good port size calculator. 2 cubes is a little small, i think most powerful 12s want between 3 and 4. But I realize our trunks don't have unlimited space and if you are not going for like earthshaking bass then 2 cubes should be good. Just make sure it's built real solid, use tons of wood glue and cut some right triangles out of wood to use as bracing on the inside. A port will help it boom hard if you like rap and dubstep and techno. If you listen to more rock you might want to go sealed. Although even with a big port on my box the L7 handles the really fast metal double bass hits just fine without sounding like one big muddy booooooooooooom. you can clearly feel the attack on each hit.

It's good you have quality speakers and tweeters up front, will make it sound a little more balanced. Every car that has subs but not tweets sounds a little off to me. Don't really need a capacitor until you surpass 1000W RMS, most light dimming issues you can fix with a new battery and upgrading your "big 3" power cables.

[Auto Parts Guy]

Cool thanks! Yeah I listen to pretty much everything except classical and country. Anything from Modest Mouse to Lil Wayne to Korn to Pearl Jam and most everything in between. Been on a rap kick lately for some reason. I think Fosgate says up to 4 cubes for that sub but ideally recommends 2 or something like that but I'll do a little more research on it. Hopefully I can get it to fit in that space between the rear fender wells.. all the interior speakers are getting replaced because they suck in the e36. Probably gonna do the 6x9 adapter plates for the rear while I'm at it.

[DTM325PWR]

the punch hx2 is a good sub. the power series hx2 will do very well in your car! i had a power series 10" about 4 years ago in my 3series and loved it! get low/loud/clean bass. i have messed around with a lot of amp/sub combos, the hx2 is one of my favorites. you can go on many car audio forums and you will get the same responce. they are great subs. or if you can find the old version orions HCCA with the TC9 motors. you can find those for around $100-$150 as well. cant go wrong with either of them though

also, i would look for a bigger amp as soon as you can. it will power the hx2, but if you can find the "t" series rockfords (gray medal shell), or even some of the older power models from 6-7 years back with the silver raised fins and black chassis, you will be much happier. very underrated amps! load them down to 1ohm. punch series will not go down to 1ohm. get power series/t series. also the old mtx amps, 1001/1501 are great too on a budget. crome label/model plate with black chassis. jbl BP1200 are great on a budget. these are some of the popular brands you can find on a budget on CL

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/ele/2081108474.html a power series t1001. 1300+rms. good deal. offer 200$ if you can

[Auto Parts Guy]

Ended up getting a couple Kicker 12" Solo-Baric L7s, a sealed box, and another Rockford Fosgate amp (Punch 800.4) for $120. I cut the box in half to get me by till I have time to build one. I've already got the materials for the ported box & I drew it out to 2.4 cubic feet, just need some time to build it. The speakers are DVC 2 ohm so now I'll be in search of a better suited amp. Maybe a JL 1000.1? Sorry for the crappy pics again

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac38/automotiveminds/IMAG0317.jpg

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac38/automotiveminds/IMAG0375.jpg

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac38/automotiveminds/IMAG0346.jpg

[Benny Z]

people come and ask. we answer. they do what they want anyway.

how things go here 98% of the time.

oh well.

[iWISHIHADONE]

particle board will last about a month before it falls apart.

every box is made of osb..... the particle board is not a good way to go nor is it any cheaper.....

[12v Electronics]

every box is made of osb..... the particle board is not a good way to go nor is it any cheaper.....OSB?

You mean this stuff?:eek:

http://www.supplierlist.com/photo_images/34153/OSB-Oriented_Strand_Board.jpg

[Auto Parts Guy]

?? I thought the L7 was on the list of ok subs considering my price range and possible resell intentions to upgrade later? A lot of people seem to like these subs for the price? It would be different if I had bought the eq in post #1 regardless of the warnings not to. Please elaborate your comments. ID subs are not readily available used in my area. I looked. New they are not in my price range.

Medium density fiber particle board is $10.47 a sheet (2'x4'x.75") and is way different from osb.

[bignickmetro]

if you want earthshaking bass you did fine picking an L7. Sometimes you just have to go with whats available, especially if they are that cheap. Drive them with a good amp and you will have some serious bass.

I installed a 12" L7 in a little 1.9 cube box in my girlfriends M3 over the weekend and it sounds ridiculous, when I pulled up to her work all the girls said they heard me coming. I played around with the crossovers and delays a little bit and it sounds pretty ok with the stock speakers. I will eventually put my 4 channel in and some good components, but I just reglued the door panels and I don't want to rip em up again. Plus when you x-over all the bass so they don't have to work so hard the stockers don't sound all that terrible for the highs. Mids are lacking though.

MDF is fine for building boxes. OSB is not.

Look up a wiring guide for your subs. 2 2-ohm DVC can be wired to .5ohm, 2ohm, or 8ohm. If you are just going to use a single sub you can wire it to 1 ohm or 4ohm. JL amps are definitely great, RF power series or kicker zx are good too. Alpine mono amps are not bad. Avoid kenwood or infinity even though they are cheap, they will die at 1-ohm loads.

[12v Electronics]

people come and ask. we answer. they do what they want anyway.

how things go here 98% of the time.

oh well.Don't be such a hater. It's the holidays for Petes sake. For your penance, you are required to stand outside of your local BB and hand out ataboys for 4 hours.

[Auto Parts Guy]

if you want earthshaking bass you did fine picking an L7. Sometimes you just have to go with whats available, especially if they are that cheap.

Look up a wiring guide for your subs. 2 2-ohm DVC can be wired to .5ohm, 2ohm, or 8ohm. If you are just going to use a single sub you can wire it to 1 ohm or 4ohm. JL amps are definitely great, RF power series or kicker zx are good too. Alpine mono amps are not bad. Avoid kenwood or infinity even though they are cheap, they will die at 1-ohm loads.
Thanks! I thought they were a hell of a deal considering what others wanted for the same subs.. plus I got an extra 800 watt amp and a box. He also threw in some wiring, connectors, power blocks and a circuit breaker.

I was thinking JL amp because I could run it at 4 ohms and still get the same power as running them lower. I saw where some JL Monoblock are the same power output at 1.5 - 4 ohms because theyre internally regulated for the load. I'm def going with one sub, I need my trunk space.

[bignickmetro]

yeah you got a helluva deal. they charge a lot for the fuses and distribution blocks usually. are you going to run RCAs down the car or just tap into the rear speakers for your signal? If you have a good aftermarket deck with a sub out i'd suggest it because you can adjust it more and get a cleaner sound.

Also, running remote-on and RCA on an e36 is pretty easy. I ran it behind the climate control, across the wheel well to the door sills then ran it under the carpet to the back seats. then through the folding part under the carpet.

[attack eagle]

?? I thought the L7 was on the list of ok subs considering my price range and possible resell intentions to upgrade later? A lot of people seem to like these subs for the price?

Medium density fiber particle board is $10.47 a sheet (2'x4'x.75") and is way different from osb.


It will be ok in a 1.6 sealed box, at about 400-500w max (DMM level setting). Not 800, not 1000, not 1500. Not ported. Even better if you can high pass them at 25hz.

L7/ L5s are not the greatest sounding BECAUSE they are square. They have a butt load of cone cry, but if you keep the power down to what they are recommended to handle, and they are in a trunk which will muffle most of the cone cry, they are an acceptable sounding entry level sub.

the best use for them is free car washes. :)

[bignickmetro]

It will be ok in a 1.6 sealed box, at about 400-500w max (DMM level setting). Not 800, not 1000, not 1500. Not ported. Even better if you can high pass them at 25hz.

L7/ L5s are not the greatest sounding BECAUSE they are square. They have a butt load of cone cry, but if you keep the power down to what they are recommended to handle, and they are in a trunk which will muffle most of the cone cry, they are an acceptable sounding entry level sub.

the best use for them is free car washes. :)

i've never heard any appreciable cone cry from a kicker sub, other than a round Comp that was like $45. Have you ever looked at the spider on an L7? I listen to dubstep loud enough that it is hard to take a breath sometimes. never had a problem with any weird sounding distortion. resonance in the car sure, distortion...no. Just to make sure everyone in a while I'll throw on some triphop, and it handles all the mids nice and clean. I have bad dropoff problems but im 99% sure its the box.

Minimum sealed box size is 1.5cu minimum ported is 3cu as per Kicker.

Def set your gains with a DMM. Clipping kills subs, not power. I've seen these subs handle A LOT of power. I have mine matched to a zx750.1. My friend has a 15" paired up with a JL 1000.1 and he has no hatch glass now. Just make sure your amp is cea2006 rated and it's not too far over what L7s can handle (750RMS). Just set your x-overs well and you won't blow them :)

[attack eagle]

my buddy has an L5 on a 1200.1

It only works cause I set the gains low.
Basically we are using the 1200.1 as a moderately well built 500w amp, as opposed to the light dimming marginally built 600w amp he had before or as a marginally built 1200w kicker amp.

it isn;t sq, but it sounds decent enough for 90% of the population. the remaining 10% are either sq people, boomers, or spl people.

[Auto Parts Guy]

Not ported. Even better if you can high pass them at 25hz.

the best use for them is free car washes. :)
I should keep them in a sealed box? I was planning to use a 2.4 cubic ft ported box but if it would sound better in the sealed box then I'm all game for not having to build one. Free car washes? You lost me.
And by high pass them @ 25Hz you mean switch the amp to HP and turn the Freq knob to minimum? It only goes to 50Hz so I'd be missing out on some lows, right?

http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/ImageHandler/scale/600/600/products/2007/575/h575P3001P-i.jpeg




Minimum sealed box size is 1.5cu minimum ported is 3cu as per Kicker.

Def set your gains with a DMM. Clipping kills subs, not power. I've seen these subs handle A LOT of power. I have mine matched to a zx750.1. My friend has a 15" paired up with a JL 1000.1 and he has no hatch glass now. Just make sure your amp is cea2006 rated and it's not too far over what L7s can handle (750RMS). Just set your x-overs well and you won't blow them :)
Thanks for the advice on where to run the RCAs I was wondering about that. Did you go on the passenger side or driver side? That's my project for this weekend. Jerry helped me rig them up yesterday just to make sure everything worked first :)

I'll set the gains with a DMM this weekend too. How do you like the zx750.1? Are you running it at 2 ohms with a single sub? I'll need to be at either 1 or 4 so I was thinking either a 1 ohm stable amp or a higher power amp @ 4ohms. By set the cross-overs, you mean on the amp or the head unit?

Here's the specs for the 12" L7 box from Kicker's website:
Min Rec Sealed Box Volume (CU. FT., Liters) .88, 24.9
Max Rec Sealed Box Volume (CU. FT., Liters) 2.0, 56.6
Min Rec Vented Box Volume (CU. Ft., Liters)** 1.75, 49.6
Max Rec Vented Box Volume (CU. Ft., Liters)** 3.25, 92.1


Where should my Sub-W2 be set at?
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac38/automotiveminds/IMAG0376.jpg

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac38/automotiveminds/IMAG0402.jpg



If you listen to "Like a G6" @ 18-20 seconds, it seems like the sub doesn't hit those higher frequency notes like it should.. Hits the lower freq perfect. I've tried a couple different configurations with minimal change. I have the gain at about 4 out of 11 and LP filter on. Maybe it's clipping? Probably since I haven't properly set my gain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvgJEznqtms http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvgJEznqtms


This song gets krunk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwaUNbuhdKo


And of course this one... (doesn't hit those higher bass notes very well on this song either) gain?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpk6FTbxvc4

[Iambatman]

my buddy has an L5 on a 1200.1

It only works cause I set the gains low.
Basically we are using the 1200.1 as a moderately well built 500w amp, as opposed to the light dimming marginally built 600w amp he had before or as a marginally built 1200w kicker amp.

it isn;t sq, but it sounds decent enough for 90% of the population. the remaining 10% are either sq people, boomers, or spl people.http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_did_the_band_on_the_Titanic_keep_playing_as_th e_boat_was_sinking

[bignickmetro]

X-overs are how your music is split up between subs, coaxes and tweeters, so that tweets arent playing bass notes and vice-versa. high-pass means everything over that freq will pass (be heard), everything else blocked. low-pass means everything under that will pass. I like the x-overs in my deck so I use those instead of the ones in my amp.

I don't use any bass boost or sub level, i actually had to back it off to -7 (-15 to +15) or so on my kenwood deck. I set my LPF on my sub output to 80hz, but if you want more mid set it to 100hz. Your HPF for your front and rear speakers depends on the speakers. big rears can do it at like 80-100hz. fronts usually like 120hz. so this way they aren't getting fed any low notes they can't play.


I've never had to HPF my subs as pretty much every amp i've used has a built in low-freq protection so they don't play notes TOOOOO low. I think that was what he was getting at with the HPF at 25hz, subsonic protection.

When your car REALLY booms hard on a certain note, thats the box and port design kicking in. You can tune it for whatever frequency you want. Based on your music choices definitely go ported, you will only be disappointed with sealed boxes.

cliffs: HPF =100/125, HPR = 80/100, LPF = 80/100, no bass boost till you set your gain. As big a ported box as you can fit.

[Scotty89]

Definitely go ported?

It's his first build. If he does not understand what a HPF is, don't tell him to go and make a ported box. ffs.


To the OP, Stick with sealed mate. It's a hell of a lot simpler and you will have greater margin for error when trying to achieve the target volume size of your box.

I would explain in greater detail, but alas, others have already tried previously in this thread and you ignored them. As Benny said, you asked for advice, he gave it to you straight up without the BS and you ignored him.

Just because he didn't go over and over telling you how great his system is, and all the girls at work can hear him etc etc, does not mean he doesn't know what he's talking about. These other guys telling you Kicker is the shit, and that ID & IDMax are "not brand name" are the typical market type who buy whatever is marketed best. They are the same type that think loudest is best, and peak power handling is the greatest measure of comparison between audio gear. (It isn't btw, don't fall into that trap)

As Attack Eagle also said, don't build the box with particle board or OSB or whatever that shit is. Find some thick MDF or plywood - the wood for a sub box is one of the cheapest components in the entire setup, and you won't save much by using crap. A good sub without a good enclosure is still going to be shit.

All this talk about subs, and you are missing the other important goodies as well. Probably the most noticeable improvement you will get is from upgrading the OEM unit, amp and speakers - the clarity of even entry level brand name models will blow the OEM system away completely.

And as for your subs not hitting the the higher notes - it's not the gain.

Adjusting the gain (and only the gain) will simply alter the volume levels equally throughout the entire range of frequencies.

If you are having trouble with hitting higher notes, it is possible any EQ settings which should be flat to begin with, and then adjust the crossovers so that the sub is getting those higher notes.

If you've opened up the frequencies and still can't hit those higher notes, then you have a problem because it is most likely the characteristics of the sub and/or enclosure.

Ported enclosures are made to boost the frequencies they are tuned to, and when you tune it low, it's going to boost those low notes. Without a properly calculated box, that is tuned properly and matched to the Sub's specs you can end up with spikes or "peak" frequencies that will make some notes louder than others and make the system sound unbalanced.

A sealed box gives a flat, even response throughout the sub's range of playable frequencies - and gives a more even natural sound, which is why SQ guys tend to go for sealed boxes. Although a sealed box doesn't make use of the rear waves from the sub, and therefore might not have been quite as loud over a select few frequencies, it still would have sounded better.

I just loaded "Like a G6" into my guitar program, the notes at 18-20 seconds are:

Low, G @ 49.8 Hz, and
High, E flat @ 77.7 Hz.

And 80Hz really is not a difficult task for a standard subwoofer to hit.
I think you have some issues in your setup mate, and I'm sorry to say but it's hard to tell what's going on without actually seeing/inspecting your setup in person.

Unless you get a new enclosure, your best bet is to use the EQ to cut some of the real low's (that are hitting hard), and then adjust your gain up to its clipping point properly so that the sub can play the highs with more power and yet not be overpowering on the lows (since the EQ has cut them back).

[bignickmetro]

maybe if i listened to a bunch of classical or something I would care more about SQ. Rap and dub are long low notes. I really prefer the extra air movement of a ported box; I stand by my recommendation.

I think it is more of a EQ issue if you are strugglin to hit notes. Make sure you don't have ANY of the EQ or boost effects on, just start flat and adjust it as you go. I have no issues playing a full range. I also put 4channel amps driving components in all of my cars so the midbass is taken care of and I can tune the sub a little lower to my preference.

I took a 3 hour trip in my e46 w/hk over the weekend and was pretty happy with it; first system I am not going to upgrade.

Go buy 4x4=12, even though a couple of the songs are older singles the album is great. Raise your weapon!

[Scotty89]

Well there you go. If you're satisfied with the factory HK system, you really don't care about SQ then.

I don't hate ported boxes, I'm just saying that he should not try to build one for his first audio install.

There is a lot of math in building the right ported enclosure, and there is little room for error. It is likely that he will be disappointed with the results given all the time spent on it.

A sealed box will give deeper sub bass and a more even response. I listen to some rap music as well and a sealed box moves more than enough air. If it were moving any more it would unbalance the system.

[rogan]

This isn't a bash at anyone so everyone keep their toys in the cot. Just thought I'd clear up a few points.


A sealed box gives a flat, even response throughout the sub's range of playable frequencies - and gives a more even natural sound, which is why SQ guys tend to go for sealed boxes. Although a sealed box doesn't make use of the rear waves from the sub, and therefore might not have been quite as loud over a select few frequencies, it still would have sounded better.
As a general rule it's a good one, but depends on the subwoofer. Some subwoofers are designed for ported enclosures and sound arse in sealed (Focal for example). Look at some of the top end home subwoofers and ported enclsoures are very common.



high-pass means everything over that freq will pass (be heard), everything else blocked. low-pass means everything under that will pass.
Don't forget about slope. X-overs have filters with slopes of -6,-12,-24db for example (the more $ you spend the more slope options you get) . The filters attenuate the frequencies above or below the crossover point by that slope per octave. Start running something like a 160hz low pass filter on your sub and if you listen to it carefully you'll hear midrange vocals

When you're talking about high passing a subwoofer then it's sometimes known as the subsonic filter (as you alluded to). I'm a fan of feeding all frequencies in the music to my speakers regardless of whether they are outside my hearing range. Side note - cue the arguement about the value of 22kHz-50kHz reproduction in tweeters.


I don't use any bass boost or sub level, i actually had to back it off to -7 (-15 to +15) or so on my kenwood deck.
Have you considered the gain structure here? It would be better to have a higher output from the headunit and lower amplification in the amp (ie, turn it up on your headie and dial back the amp gain). Yes 5 x 2 = 10 and 2 x 5 = 10 so why does it matter where the amplification is done?? Answer to this is the noise floor in the headunit. Your headunit will emit both constant and volume-variable noise in its output signal; the majority being constant. Let's say your headie emits a constant noise of 0.1 volt. Your preamp output is say 2v and you then amplify that 10 times to get a 20v signal to the speakers. In this scenario your constant noise is 1v or 5% of your speaker signal. Now double the pre-out to 4v and amplify by 5 to get 20v to your speaker. Now the constant noise floor is 0.5v at your speaker or 2.5% of your speaker signal. So regardless of whether you're a sq freak, basshead, daily munter, or a purple dinosaur, gain structure is a very simple way of improving your music.



no bass boost till you set your gain.
Big no. The point of the gain is to match the amplification to your input signal. We reduce the gain to the point where the amp doesn't clip (or lower depending on amp power/speaker power requirement but let's ignore this situation for the sake of the argument). Adding a bass boost after setting the gains then asks the amp to do more work and hello clipping.

[attack eagle]

well there you go. If you're satisfied with the factory hk system, you really don't care about sq then.

qft!

[bignickmetro]

Well there you go. If you're satisfied with the factory HK system, you really don't care about SQ then.


I am not 100% satisfied with it, but it sounds good enough I'm not going to bother ripping into my pristine rattle-free interior and replace everything. And I don't want the weight of a big sub and amp. So I'm leaving well enough alone and putting the big system in my girl's M3.

rogan- agreed, but I did not want to confuse the OP with slopes. And I never add bass BOOST, not before not after, those do very wierd things to sound; EQ bands are another thing.

Anyway, I think I've contributed all I can to this thread.
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