planning on boost my M50

[ihiro]

hi guys,


i want to know more information about turbo boost for my M50 non vanos with 5speed manual transmission.

i wasn't looking for BIG increase on HP (400-500), i would like to go with engine longevity but with turbo, and horsepower that i'm looking is around 290-320 HP or around that,

my question is to manage this longevity and 290-320 horsepower, what all the things that i need to modify to this engine? i have a shop that can do the fabricate and welding also, i know with NA is impossible to reach this HP.


i'm thinking on some of ebay deals on turbo kit
http://www.dnamotoring.com/speeddaddyimage/TURBOKIT/TBK/TBK-E36(10).jpg

i read this thread
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1547376&highlight=m50+turbo
some people consider it not reliable but some people consider it quite reliable,

i see alot of negative feedback about the oil seal blowing, i think it solved by buying OEM bearings/oil seals (anyway i don't know what OEM bearings /oil seal look like, anyone can share with me a picture of it).

Im was thinking to use all plumbing except the turbo and just buy a garrett/holset turbo off ebay.

what do you guys think? can i get my goal with this kit?

[russiankid]

I wouldn't cheap out on a turbo first off, that is if you were thinking of going with an Ebay one. Secondly, making it last has a lot to do with tuning. If the engine is tuned properly and you're not trying to push an absurd amount of boost through it, it will be reliable.

[ihiro]

if i bought it and just use the plumbing manifold intercooler gauges what else do i need to change

1. Turbo
2. OEM bearing / oil seal

what else is the crucial parts for boosting turbo?

[darrenforeal]

I wouldn't cheap out on a turbo first off, that is if you were thinking of going with an Ebay one. Secondly, making it last has a lot to do with tuning. If the engine is tuned properly and you're not trying to push an absurd amount of boost through it, it will be reliable.

+1

And check out TCD

[T444E]

I've seen bad things with those eBay turbos. Compressor wheels just exploding, oil leaks etc.
If there are two things I won't buy on eBay it's brakes and a turbo.

[M Quick]

Your info says you have a 1994 E34, but in the post you say you got a non vanos m50?
A 520i/525i from 1994 has vanos. Only 1991 and 1992 520i/525i has non vanos m50's. Just saying.

[oxbimmer]

Good questions... I was considering this same kit from ebay with a different turbo.

[GGray]

whhat you can buy on ebay..

a cast manifold which work great.

intercooler, bar and plate,

BOV

a decent waste gate..

Turbo.. T3/40E hybrid, .57trim both sides. .60 a/r hot. .63 a/r cold. good for about 400ish hp... buy a decent turbo..


Tuning from TCD or TRM...

misc piping silicone and clamps can also be from ebay...

[darknezz7]

yea intercooler and piping is fine on ebay. a manifold probably is too since they make tons for the m30, try finding a m30 turbo manifold gl.

buy a garret gt35r ball bearing oil cooled turbo.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-AR-63-35psi-GT35-GT35R-BALL-BEARING-TURBOCHARGER-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2a0bd458adQQitemZ18058 7092141QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries
its the most important piece and should be spent on.

check this place out too pretty good prices on turbo parts.
http://store.max-redline.com (http://store.max-redline.com/)

[ihiro]

thank you guys, for those who doesn't recomend this it's oke i'm willing to try it,

those who consider it quite reliable please help me to change some of the parts on the package that i need to change.

T04E want to change it Holset H1 or a Garret gt35r Turbocharger

Turbo Manifold
T3 Turbo Inlet

Front Mount Intercooler
Full Size: 32 x 12 x 3.25
Intercooler Piping kit
*Modification Required*
Electric Slim Fan
Blade: 10" x 10"x 1.5" 1720 cfm /ea., 12v, 80w

External Wastegate
8 psi Spring Setting (should i change this?)

Fuel Pressure Regulator
High Quality Fitting Boost 15-75 psi or more (should i change this?)

Voltage Stabilizer
Ignition Flow to Strengthen Starting Power (should i change this?)

Turbo Timer
Blow-off Valve
Bov Flange Pipe

Boost Controller
Manual Boost Control 0-30 psi Adjustment (should i change this?)

Oil Cooler & line kit
37",47",62" Oil Cooler Line 7/8" Outside Diamater Hoses (should i change this?)

Oil Feed Line
Oil Return Drain Line
Oil Catch Tank (should i change all these?)


Gauges
Flexible Transfer Hose
Braided Hose Kits


all of this cost U$888 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CAST-T3-TURBO-TURBOCHARGER-KIT-BMW-E36-92-98-I6-450-HPS-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZMakeQ3aBMWQQhashZitem27b69 ba180QQitemZ170567377280QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ 5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_6293wt_939)
with Garret/holset U$400

TOTAL U$1,288

what else do i need?

[EuroPartConnect]

probably also going to need a walbro 255, diff injectors and tuning of some sort, wether it be M.S or domething along those lines plus exhaust work is expensive also.

[nismoracer65789]

buy a garret gt35r ball bearing oil cooled turbo.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-AR-63-35psi-GT35-GT35R-BALL-BEARING-TURBOCHARGER-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2a0bd458adQQitemZ18058 7092141QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries
its the most important piece and should be spent on.


That is NOT a garrett turbo
and OP if you're going to do this don't cheap out like I did. I'm now starting by build over with quality parts. Haven't driven the car in 7 months now :( also what are you doing for the exhaust? and really pay attention when it comes time for tuning. IMO I would look into tuning first

[darknezz7]

That is NOT a garrett turbo
and OP if you're going to do this don't cheap out like I did. I'm now starting by build over with quality parts. Haven't driven the car in 7 months now :( also what are you doing for the exhaust? and really pay attention when it comes time for tuning. IMO I would look into tuning first

some of them claimed they were but I doubted them as well.

yeah your going to need bigger fuel pump, bigger injectors, adjustable fpr, and a tuning system. the miller war chip is pretty plug and play and you can get pre made tunes and load them to your ecu with a laptop.

past that, megasquirt or whatever your choice of engine management.

are these real garrets?
http://store.max-redline.com/servlet/-strse-538/GT35R-GT35-Ball-Bearing/Detail

I thought gt35 was a garret model... they steal the model and make cheap knock offs?

heres a REAL garret.... $1400....
http://www.millerperformancecars.com/catalogue.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=69&category_id=42

[M Quick]

Stock (525i/535i) fuel pump should do fine for 300-400hp. It's the same pump used in the euro 3.8L(340hp) M5's and 3.6L us m5's. So the fuel pump shouldn't be a problem. I think it can withstand more than 400hp IIRC.

So for the power output it's going to be used for, no need to change it!

[ihiro]

oke i kinda lost here, no need bigger fuel pump.

do i need bigger injectors, adjustable fpr? and what brand do you recomended? does this mean fuel injectors?

walbro 255 is a fuel pump? do i need really2 need this also?

i like miller WAR chip i think it's easy to use.

[M Quick]

Need bigger fuel injectors? Yes.
Adjustable fpr? No.
FPR = Fuel pressure regulator, it's a regulator that holds a certain pressure on the fuel.
And no, FPR is not a fuel injector, but in short, it holds a set value of fuel pressure at the injectors.

walbro 255 is a fuel pump, yes. No, you can do fine with the stock fuel pump still, as your goal is only around 300hp, which is no problem at all for the stock fuel pump.
But sure, you can put money into getting a walbro 255 if you want, won't harm, but it's not really needed.

[5271990]

You'll need to contact miller and see if they even offer a boosted basemap map for the NV warchip, a few people found that the hotwire maf in the NV maxed out out about 10psi on smallish superchargers and turbos.

You can always put a obd1 vanos 413 ecu/harness/MAF on if you want more

[techno550]

for 300ish whp:

you shouldn't need a fuel pump unless yours is weak.
Leave the stock fuel pressure regulator in place. Don't add an adjustable FPR either. the stock regulator is a 1:1 rate.
You will need larger injectors. 30 lb/hr injectors should be plenty.

You should be able to do this on a stock motor with modest boost very reliably. The hard part with the NV is the electronics, specifically the MAF.

Converting to a vanos harness, cams, vanos unit, and valve cover will help in a number of ways. Adding vanos will make the powerband significantly wider and the car much faster and more drivable. MAF options open up as well, and tuning options open up greatly.

[bfp9]

I am very interested in this build. Please keep this updated so myself and others can follow! If i were to do a turbo build, i would do it exactly like you are with a goal of 300whp.

[ihiro]

.....
You will need larger injectors. 30 lb/hr injectors should be plenty.

You should be able to do this on a stock motor with modest boost very reliably. The hard part with the NV is the electronics, specifically the MAF.

Converting to a vanos harness, cams, vanos unit, and valve cover will help in a number of ways. Adding vanos will make the powerband significantly wider and the car much faster and more drivable. MAF options open up as well, and tuning options open up greatly.

oke any brand recommended for the large fuel injectors?

will this BOSCH S50 fuel injectors fit my M50?
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=24LBINJ

about the NV an vanos, i don't know how to put a vanos in a NV engine, and i don't think there are someone here at my country know how to do that as well.

i think i want to stick with NV for this time and what i have to do is contact Miller and ask them about it right? to modify my ECU, is that correct?

what does MAF option mean?

[nismoracer65789]

You really should read up more before you start this...

Just trying to help you save some money

[ihiro]

External Wastegate
8 psi Spring Setting

Fuel Pressure Regulator
High Quality Fitting Boost 15-75 psi or more

Voltage Stabilizer
Ignition Flow to Strengthen Starting Power

Boost Controller
Manual Boost Control 0-30 psi Adjustment

Oil Cooler & line kit
37",47",62" Oil Cooler Line 7/8" Outside Diamater Hoses

Oil Feed Line
Oil Return Drain Line
Oil Catch Tank


and for these items does this consider quite reliable or i really2 need to change it? let me know what to change and what i can keep from these.




You really should read up more before you start this...

Just trying to help you save some money

i've done some research, and you can check on youtube also quite alot of people posting their ebay turbo kit, and alot of people also questioning on how long it will last, for the user point of view it worked fine over a year, some already use it for years and more, eventho they don't change the turbocharger.

i'm willing to try it it's oke with me, thanks for your concern.. i will not use it for race tho low psi will works fine with me..
if i want to go with professional race i will go all Branded turbo stuff.

[darknezz7]

id still get one of those knock off gt35r's rather than the crap the full turbo kits come with.

[uk525td]

awesome build info, was toying with the idea of something similar and wanted some good pre information, was aslo looking at a hybrid t3/t4 as they are cheap as chips around here.

One question, i thought it was pretty much written that the head should be popped and replace the headgasket, and fit (arp) studS?

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[M Quick]

awesome build info, was toying with the idea of something similar and wanted some good pre information, was aslo looking at a hybrid t3/t4 as they are cheap as chips around here.

One question, i thought it was pretty much written that the head should be popped and replace the headgasket, and fit (arp) studS?

Subscribed

No, not necessarily, if you're only aiming at running 300whp, then a stock m50 will do fine, i have seen many m50 turbos over the years over here that runs as daily drivers(and some have been running 400whp as DD's with E85 fuel) and they have been working out great if you don't push the numbers and stay realistic.
The only problems i've seen has been related to the FI parts when people has cheaped out on some of the parts.


I'd say you only have to worry about getting arp studs if you're going over 400whp, that's what i read atleast, but i haven't seen anyone had problems with a fully stock m50 running 300whp.

[uk525td]

I'd say you only have to worry about getting arp studs if you're going over 400whp, that's what i read atleast, but i haven't seen anyone had problems with a fully stock m50 running 300whp.

*starts making christmas list*

lol

[M Quick]

*starts making christmas list*

lol



Haha :lol

This isn't going to end well ;)
:think:

[ihiro]

just want to share some of my research..

other BMW forum, this from people who's been using ebay turbo, or at least try it before.

it work for me i was on a big time budget but now that i have some extra cash am upgrating. But if you want 200/220hp just to start get it. It was fun an i didint want to spend a lot an blow it up if you kno what i mean. Am still using my many but welding a flang for external wg' pluming and fmic. Am getting a new turbo full vems new bov




Im using the ebay manifold, actually everything i use is ebay. Except MS, injectors, and... some couplers and clamps. My car works awesome.

Is there better parts out there? Sure! But, the parts on ebay do work.



I'll comment on this...

If your building a street car, here is my take on the ebay turbo kit...

The turbo is a bit small, the wastegate is a little iffy, and the BOV is well...its a BOV. The piping is obviously just piping (it is really thin though), the FMIC is standard stuff as well as the couplers/clamps.

In short here is what I would use out of that kit...

1. Manifold (but I'd inspect it often)
2. Piping
3. Couplers/clamps/bolts/fittings
4. return line
5. BOV
6. Intercooler
7. Slim Fan
8. Boost Controller
9. Catch can
10. Gaskets/ hoses.

You could sell the turbo, and wastegate and make a few bucks back. Buy a nice wastegate (TIAL) and a better/bigger turbo, and some sort of EMS. Not a bad deal really.

I've seen crappy parts go fast and break quick, and I've seen expensive parts go fast and break quick.

youtube

is car still running good?> how's the ebay turbo kit? i heard a lot of cons about it.

cons cause those who run it aren't tuned properly or just smash it all day. turbo cars should be handled with care; proper tuning and regular maintenance. I've been running my kit for a while now, going to the 3rd year with no issues. just got a ref ticket and time to upgrade so i took it off.. Depends on you.. I rather spend 100 dollars on a junk turbo, when it breaks down easier to replace, compared to a 1k$ turbo.. now thats diggin in your pockets