Have a 15year old BMW with 150K miles? Why not give me some feedback.

[dragosdragos]

Need some advice...


Looking for a used car and well BMW popped on the radar, however I do not know much about them.


Looking to spend around 10K to 15K, coupe (hard top), sedan or wagon, RWD, naturally aspired, do not want the M series (lower insurance), and has to be manual. Hoping to find one with around 40-50K miles. This narrowed down my options somewhat but not greatly.


It will be a daily driver and the car will be kept stock. It will be drive in snow (I know RWD and snow don't get along, but I think some snow tires would help). I would like to keep it for 7 to 10 years (put 100-150k miles on it)


But further up on the requirements list is reliability. I can put up with small stuff like creaks and rattles and I don't have a problem with routine maintenance (clutches, wheel bearing, engine seals, timing belts, brakes, etc), but other than that the drive train would have to be pretty reliable. I don't have the time or money to get an engine or transmission rebuilt (piston rings, valve seals, etc). Might be able to stumble through a head gasket change if there is no damage to the block, but that would be as far as I dare go.


What I'm getting at is this. How do these cars hold up after the new car honeymoon is over? How do they do at 150K miles and 15 to 20 years old? Any specific years or engines to avoid? Problem areas? Anything else to keep in mind?


Should I just opt for a newer car with lower miles rather than an older BMW?


Right now I'm coming from a 2000 Honda Prelude. Did all the maintenance on it since 30K miles and it has been a very good car. The piston rings are leaking (150K miles) and need to consider my options.


Thanks for the help.


Dragos

[BoldUlysses]

Mine is a '95 525i 5-speed with 148K. Pretty close to your criteria. $10K-$15K will buy you a very, very nice 15-year-old, 150K BMW. As a point of reference, I got mine for $2K (it's actually worth closer to $3.5K).

Excluding M-cars, for that price, in that rough model year range, I'd consider:

- 840Ci
- E34 540i/6
- E39 540i/6
- E36 328is

The engines themselves are pretty bulletproof. I can't think of a single one I'd warn you away from except for the M70 V12, which can be a headache. Note that the electronics on the newer cars (E46, E39 especially) can be more troublesome than the engines. E36 interiors are well-known for being cheap. Can you tell I'm trying to steer you toward an E34? :D

Mine runs like new, the interior is holding up very well, and the paint, although it could use a good cleaning and wax, is very presentable. Like any car, the most important thing is to find one that's been well-cared for. I'm the second owner of mine; the original owner had every service receipt from the day she drove it off the dealership lot.

Good luck!
-Matt

[Matt Cramer]

Well, I've got a '97 BMW with about 145000 miles on it now - I've put a bit more than 25,000 of them on it myself. Mechanically, it's held up great; I've just needed to put new shocks on it and replace a wheel bearing, and give it some basic maintenance. There's a fair number of interior bits that are coming unglued and similar minor irritations - the interior on my '90 Chevy Suburban isn't as good looking, but except for a sagging headliner has held up much better.

[dragosdragos]

Msuffer, looking for a newer model with less miles and KEEP IT at least till it's 15 years old or 150K miles

[BoldUlysses]

Msuffer, looking for a newer model with less miles and KEEP IT at least till it's 15 years old or 150K miles

Gotcha. I'm no expert on the newer models; those here who are will chime in, I'm sure. Although if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say your top two picks for $10K-$15K would be either an E39 540i/6 or an E46 330(C)i/6.

-Matt

[SimTechDJ]

currently driving a 1996 328i, 5spd. 152,000miles
i replaced all suspension with m3/koni yellows. short of having done the control arms, radiator and oil changes... very dependable and affordable! i have a total of $8,000 into it.(lots of extras like reupholstered vaders and such.)

[catch22]

Every now and then I see posts or threads of e46s with 200k plus whose owners claim to still be 'running strong', but I guess it's been with them for a long time and has been well maintained, as any car should anyway. Years and models to avoid if e46? Early ones and 323s n' 328s. You want to get either a 325 or 330. If 6 speed is a plus to you, then 330 built mid 03' on. If you want a fancier 330 then zhp, its owners worship them because of the extra ten hp and goodies here and there.
Can't have an opinion on e39s because the only one I like is the m5.

[Strahan]

My experience with BMWs (1 E34, 2 E38s) is that the driveline is solid but the accessories are what gives headaches. My E34 ate a transmission, suspension bits needed done, & steering box got bad. First E38 I can't recall all that went wrong, but it was ~$4000 in service. Current E38 so far has eaten an aux air pump, alternator and center link.

Granted, it's not unusual stuff for 10+ year old cars but what sucks is the BMW parts pricing can give you sticker shock coming from a Honda. It cost me $940 to put an alternator in my 2000 740i. I put one on my Accord for $90 lol. Of course, I was able to do the Accord alt install myself. I didn't want to tackle the job on the E38.

Anyway.. what's your motivation? Are you looking for something fast/sporty or is that not important? If your only real requirement is reliability, I'd just buy something like this (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=282626173&dealer_id=71145&car_year=2007&rdm=1289490697869&num_records=25&model=ACCORD&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=2006&keywordsfyc=&engine=&keywordsrep=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&only_price=1&awsp=false&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&make=HONDA&color=&keywords_display=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=3000&drive=&default_sort=yearDESC&seller_type=b&position=top&max_mileage=45000&sort_type=mileageASC&address=17313&advanced=y&end_year=2011&transmission=Manual&doors=&max_price=15000&cardist=220&standard=false) or maybe this to make winter driving easier (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=286259899&dealer_id=65210737&car_year=2009&rdm=1289490839804&model=LEGACY&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=2006&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&only_price=1&awsp=false&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&make=SUB&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=3000&drive=&default_sort=mileageASC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=45000&sort_type=mileageASC&address=17313&advanced=y&end_year=2011&doors=&transmission=Manual&max_price=15000&cardist=616&standard=false) and call it a day.

[dragosdragos]

"Anyway.. what's your motivation? Are you looking for something fast/sporty or is that not important? If your only real requirement is reliability, I'd just buy something like this (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=282626173&dealer_id=71145&car_year=2007&rdm=1289490697869&num_records=25&model=ACCORD&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=2006&keywordsfyc=&engine=&keywordsrep=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&only_price=1&awsp=false&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&make=HONDA&color=&keywords_display=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=3000&drive=&default_sort=yearDESC&seller_type=b&position=top&max_mileage=45000&sort_type=mileageASC&address=17313&advanced=y&end_year=2011&transmission=Manual&doors=&max_price=15000&cardist=220&standard=false) or maybe this to make winter driving easier (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=286259899&dealer_id=65210737&car_year=2009&rdm=1289490839804&model=LEGACY&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=2006&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&only_price=1&awsp=false&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&make=SUB&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=3000&drive=&default_sort=mileageASC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=45000&sort_type=mileageASC&address=17313&advanced=y&end_year=2011&doors=&transmission=Manual&max_price=15000&cardist=616&standard=false) and call it a day."

Just looking to see what else is out there other than Hondas, never owned a BMW before, thought I'd stir the pot a bit and see what kind of dirt I can dig up on them. Yeah, the main thing is reliability, but trying too find a balance between that and performance. If I was just looking for a reliable car I'd just roll in a Corolla and call it a day.

Thought about the Subarus, but the 2.5 seems to have a ton of problems with the head gaskets. Not sure if that is still a problem in the newer models though.

Also looking at a 2008-2009 Mazda 3 hatch, but those seem to be few and far between especially with a 5spd.


The BMW's are they pretty gnarly to work on?

[Andryuha]

You are wrong about insurance premiums. My M3 costs only $100 more per year than my wife's VW Jetta.

BMWs are not that difficult to work on. Of course any sort of work will be more involved than working on a Honda or Toyota. That is mostly because there is a wider variety of bolt/nut sizes and types and there are more things to move out of the way when you are changing something. You also have to be mindful of torque specs when changing certain parts.

You mentioned that Subarus have problems with head gaskets. I can guarantee you that most of the M3s on the market have minor head gasket leaks. When I was shopping for mine last year - all of the ones that I looked at had that problem and owners were not even aware of it. Just be sure to do a PPI before buying.

[ultimatebohab]

If it reliability luxury and performance and I was not slightly bias towards a BMW I would go with a Lexus I’ve seen them with 375,000 before and still an everyday driver. They were also rated the most dependable vehicle for the past 6 years in a row. I would recommend a Bimmer, but the one I have is in the shop as we speak and my dad also has one and he seems to have problems nothing major on either of them but still an inconvenience. If you’re set on a BMW I would say a 5 series I have a 7 and the amount of electrical stuff is a pain in the ass if the battery goes dead. Trunk won’t open; doors won’t open just a pain. I would also rather be shot in the lungs than drive my Bimmer in the snow and salt covered roads so it could rust that’s unheard of! Don’t talk that way.

[BoldUlysses]

The BMW's are they pretty gnarly to work on?

Not really. I've worked on Toyotas, Mazdas, Hondas, Fords, GM cars, Audis, Volvos and now BMWs and they're not any more difficult to work on than any of those; in fact, they're easier to work on than most. The trend seems to be the newer the model, the more "special service tools" it requires to do medium-difficulty jobs. The older the model, the more you can do with basic hand tools.

Most BMW repair procedures, regardless of the model, are covered in the Bentley series of manuals. You'll hear BMW DIYers swear by them, and for good reason.

Also, a lot of the ease of working on a particular model comes from the layout of the mechanicals. V8s are more difficult to work on that I6s, for instance, on account of the former being stuffed into the engine bay with less clearance. And the smaller engine bays of the smaller cars (3-series, for instance) make things more cramped as well. For ease of repair, an I6 in a 5-series is probably your best bet.

-Matt

[LagWagon]

I have a 13 year old BMW with 253k miles.. Do I count?

[ultimatebohab]

Not really. I've worked on Toyotas, Mazdas, Hondas, Fords, GM cars, Audis, Volvos and now BMWs and they're not any more difficult to work on than any of those; in fact, they're easier to work on than most. The trend seems to be the newer the model, the more "special service tools" it requires to do medium-difficulty jobs. The older the model, the more you can do with basic hand tools.

Most BMW repair procedures, regardless of the model, are covered in the Bentley series of manuals. You'll hear BMW DIYers swear by them, and for good reason.

Also, a lot of the ease of working on a particular model comes from the layout of the mechanicals. V8s are more difficult to work on that I6s, for instance, on account of the former being stuffed into the engine bay with less clearance. And the smaller engine bays of the smaller cars (3-series, for instance) make things more cramped as well. For ease of repair, an I6 in a 5-series is probably your best bet.

-Matt

that is true it kind of a lot easier to work on a Bimmer than other "luxury" cars I had an old Cadillac and a Lincoln and let’s just say I don’t feel like taking a sledge hammer to my Bimmer after working on it for an hour.

[Matt Cramer]

The BMW's are they pretty gnarly to work on?

Compared to a Honda, a BMW is not really easier or harder to work on, but it is, well, different. It's easier than a FWD GM car to work on, that's for sure. BMW tends to just build things their own ideosyncratic way and sometimes you have a bit to unlearn from working on other cars.

[dragosdragos]

LagWagon, of course you count! It wouldn't be the same without you...

What's going on with the rear sub frame issue on the 1999-2001 E46... $6000-8000 for rear sub frame replacement... YIKES Guess I'll stay away from that.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1248770

Let's see what else we can dig up on the 2002-2006 E46 3.0L... Any other monsters hiding in the closet?

BTW thanks for all the inputs. Certainly appreciated...

Dragos

[pizzaman09]

If you are looking to spend $15k on a manual BMW, I would get an e39 5 series with an I6 engine. If you really want to have some fun though get the 540i with the M62 V8. The manual ones usually go for a higher price than the auto ones but you can still find some very nice ones for $15k.

My only comment on BMW reliability is that their cooling systems suck. I will guarantee that the majority of BMW owners at one point or another has lost a good amount of their coolant.

If you haven't gotten a chance to drive a BMW the I advise you do. You will probably be ready to pull out the check book at the end of the test drive. :)

BTW, welcome to the forum! :wave

[bimmers3455]

Msuffer, looking for a newer model with less miles and KEEP IT at least till it's 15 years old or 150K miles

^This

[IWannaBMW]

Mine is a '95 525i 5-speed with 148K. Pretty close to your criteria. $10K-$15K will buy you a very, very nice 15-year-old, 150K BMW. As a point of reference, I got mine for $2K (it's actually worth closer to $3.5K).

Excluding M-cars, for that price, in that rough model year range, I'd consider:

- 840Ci
- E34 540i/6
- E39 540i/6
- E36 328is


Good luck!
-Matt

Dude you're out of your fucking mind! Seriously, 840ci? :rofl. He needs 15k to keep the bitch maintained .

OP, i'd get you a e36 m3 or e46 non-m and learn how to work on it yourself, they're easy. (i haven't read the whole thread, maybe you know how to work on cars already.)

[tlee64]

stick with the I6's, their V8s tend to be leaky when aged.
My vote would be an enthusiast owned e46 330i or e39 530i. but good luck, i've been looking for a year and haven't found one yet.

[dragosdragos]

Holy cow, that's a lot of people chiming in! Thanks.

I think I narrowed it down to the 2002-2005 330Ci.


"My only comment on BMW reliability is that their cooling systems suck. I will guarantee that the majority of BMW owners at one point or another has lost a good amount of their coolant."
Pizzaman09

I sort of found out the same thing between these forums and the E46 fanatics. I think a lot of people just replace the pump, thermostat, fan relay, fan clutch, expansion tank, temp unit and a couple other things every 80K miles or so for peace of mind. Sorta like the timing belt on a Honda, every 80-100K, (only that's mandatory). I can live with that. Is this whole cooling system overhaul a little over the top or not really a bad idea??

Also noticed a few people complaining about the D VANOS. Some say that it rattles and a few others that the "o" rings inside it leak. Some even went through the trouble of finding other non BMW 'O' rings for it... Looked through the DIY for the 'O' ring replacement though, doesn't look that bad. I don't imagine problems with the VANOS being very frequent...


I looked at a couple of web sites to get more info on VANOS and I think I got the gist of it. Two pistons on the end of each camshaft move in and out on a helical gear. When moving, the helical gear actually advances or retards the camshaft position from the cam gear. A bit different than the VTEC (<- is that a cuss word on these forums) that I'm used to...


Dragos

[e36rok]

Msuffer, looking for a newer model with less miles and KEEP IT at least till it's 15 years old or 150K miles
If you want a BMW model that will last you 15 years from here on out I would still get a 7-15 year old model. I wish I was kidding.

You said the Prelude has fried piston rings, and you need to consider your options, right? I would drive it for a while before buying another car. I know people who have ran H22s burning and leaking oil for years, just slightly poorer mileage.

With that said, if you need a BMW, consider an e36 or e46 from an enthusiast on the forums here, who has replaced all the general maintenance items, fluids, belts, hoses, bushings, etc. You can pick up an e36 in stellar condition for $5000, or a very nice low mileage e46 for $10000. These cars can be found for MUCH MUCH cheaper than this, but more maintenance will be required, and as my father had a saying, 'There's nothing more expensive than a cheap BMW.'

Good luck with the search.

[tlee64]

later model year E46, great choice. IMHO, one of the best bimmers ever built.
vanos issues not that common, but it's not expensive to fix. look up dr. vanos.
good luck.

[kayger12]

Holy cow, that's a lot of people chiming in! Thanks.

I think I narrowed it down to the 2002-2005 330Ci.


"My only comment on BMW reliability is that their cooling systems suck. I will guarantee that the majority of BMW owners at one point or another has lost a good amount of their coolant."
Pizzaman09

I sort of found out the same thing between these forums and the E46 fanatics. I think a lot of people just replace the pump, thermostat, fan relay, fan clutch, expansion tank, temp unit and a couple other things every 80K miles or so for peace of mind. Sorta like the timing belt on a Honda, every 80-100K, (only that's mandatory). I can live with that. Is this whole cooling system overhaul a little over the top or not really a bad idea??

Also noticed a few people complaining about the D VANOS. Some say that it rattles and a few others that the "o" rings inside it leak. Some even went through the trouble of finding other non BMW 'O' rings for it... Looked through the DIY for the 'O' ring replacement though, doesn't look that bad. I don't imagine problems with the VANOS being very frequent...


I looked at a couple of web sites to get more info on VANOS and I think I got the gist of it. Two pistons on the end of each camshaft move in and out on a helical gear. When moving, the helical gear actually advances or retards the camshaft position from the cam gear. A bit different than the VTEC (<- is that a cuss word on these forums) that I'm used to...


Dragos

If you get an E46, you will have to do the VANOS if it hasn't been done yet. VANOS seals in the E46 begin to lose their elasticity after only about 20,000 miles-- so whatever E46 you look at, if they haven't been replaced with aftermarket seals, they're shot. Easy DIY for about $100 and a few hours of your time. Plenty of info on it in the E46 section.

I didn't think anything was wrong with mine but did the VANOS job on advice from others in the E46 forum anyway-- it was like driving a new car. Huge difference in power.

Cooling system is a must about every 60K miles. You can roll the dice and try for longer, but the engines are very heat intolerant and running in the red for even a very short time (like when you bust an expansion tank on the highway) can do thousands of dollars in damage.

Also, the auto trans in the E46 is known to have issues. Do a search. I would look for a manual trans.

All that being said, I love my car and don't mind giving her a little wrench attention. Bought her with 95K-- and I'm at 122K now. Wrenching over the past two years as follows:
Cooling system overhaul ($300)
VANOS rebuild Beisan systems ($100)
Replaced oil filter housing gasket ($5)
Replaced lower/upper intake boot ($40)
Replaced Final Stage Unit resistor for climate control ($60)
Replaced control arms and control arm bushings ($350)

All done with help from the DIYs on BF.c and a Bentley manual.

Best of luck whatever you choose.

[ElleShooTiger]

Compared to a Honda, a BMW is not really easier or harder to work on, but it is, well, different. It's easier than a FWD GM car to work on, that's for sure. .

I've found my FWD GM easy to work on, but then I havent done much around the engine lol :D Rear spark plugs are a biatch of course.


BMW tends to just build things their own ideosyncratic way and sometimes you have a bit to unlearn from working on other cars.

Ever work on a Jaguar? :confused I did a tune-up on a 1979 XJS V12, its the kind of car that you have to relearn everything to figure out how some stuff works.

[pcoaew]

Reliability and last 150K and spend how much? You need to step down to another make; not even Lexus.. I would stick with a normal car ...