E36 M3 Control Arm Ball Joint Replacement with E30

[phild328]

I am looking for some info as to the best place to get E30 ball joints to put in E36 LCA. I want good ones that will hold up to the extra force from the E36 larger tires.
I know, M3 ball joints are not replacable. I know, I should buy new control arms. Lets just put that behind us for now.
But if you must know, I was already replacing the tie rod end and strut, and I noticed the outer ball joint on the LCA was bad. The inner is good. So why spend all the time taking it out and putting in a new arm. So I pressed out the outer ball joint and am now looking for the correct ball joint to put back in. Which is hard to find info since everyone is told that they need to replace the entire control arm.

So things I am curious about:
The non M3 E36 has a 49mm hole in the LCA?
The '96+ M3 has a 41mm hole in the LCA?
The 95 M3 has a ??mm hole in the LCA?
The E30 M3 has a ??mm hole in the LCA?

I saw one post on the web about someone who used the E30 M3 ball joint no problem in a E36 M3. I would like to hear that others did this without any problem.
If this is so, why don't more people do it. You can borrow a ball joint press from autozone for free if you don't have one.
TIA

[CoolDad]

I haven't done the job you're asking about but I have looked into it. At least two board members have done this: Stück and JETninja

The part numbers for the E30 joints are: 31 12 1 126 254 for the outer joint and 31 12 1 126 253 for the inner.

I wouldn't even consider using anything other than Lemforder. You can order them from Bimmerparts or AutohausAZ for $28.02 each for the outer and $33.78 each for the inner. You can even order them from Carquest for what was quoted to me as being a bit more.

[Tongboy]

I have some uroparts e30 ball joints sitting on my workbench ready to go into my 96+ M arms. Of the few threads i've read they seem to be a match. I'll know tonight when I pull the arms off to press everything out.

hard to say no to doing it this method when you already have a press - I got all 4 ball joints and rear control arm bushings for ~$120 - a far cry from $212 a side for the complete arms and the control arm bushings on top of that. I'll see how they hold up long term.

[Tongboy]

I return from the garage with real information

let's start off - first pic is the arm as removed from my car - 97 m3 sedan. genuine BMW stamps all over the various parts of the arm.

http://tongboy.com/images/e36ls1/IMG_1461-1.jpg

e30 ball joints - I asked specifically for an 89 325 though i'm guessing they are all pretty similar. the control arm bushings are e36 m3 - though I believe the aftermarket marks them as the same as most/all non-offset e36
http://tongboy.com/images/e36ls1/IMG_1463-2.jpg

old ball joints pressed out and sitting next to the new ones for comparison - I took the caliper to them and measured them in all the ways I could think of and they were right dead on.
http://tongboy.com/images/e36ls1/IMG_1465-3.jpg

note the destroyed BMW ball joint - i've heard talk that these aren't supposed to have plastic in the e36 ones - well I beg to differ...

4 ball joints from the local euro parts place were total ~100 bucks.

so there you have it - first hand with pictures showing e30 ball joints work without issue in e36 m3 arms. I saved ~300+ bucks doing this instead of buying new arms. The press work probably takes me 20 minutes a side, i'll take that 40 minutes of time for the savings.

[Lawrence1]

i like ... will this work for 95 M3 control arms? what part # ball joints did you order?

[RRSperry]

And when they fail you can look forward to doing it again... You really aren't the first person to think of this...

[Tongboy]

i like ... will this work for 95 M3 control arms? what part # ball joints did you order?

I believe the offset control arm bushing is the difference on the 95's? I'm not enough of an e36 guy to know that

should be able to make out the part numbers on the second pic

31 12 1 126 254 x2 small one
31 12 1 126 253 x2 tall one



And when they fail you can look forward to doing it again... You really aren't the first person to think of this...

of course - just like any wear item. I would never suggest I was - I got the idea from a guy on this board who got it from another guy, I just hadn't seen anyone show actual proof or the correct part numbers so I figured i'd share. Having seen the destroyed stock ball joint I don't have a lot of fear that i'm replacing them with an inferior part. I spend WAY more time getting my arms off and back on with my swap subframe getting in the way than I do pressing the joints back in - so buying new arms is false time economy to me.

[3two8eye]

When I replaced the control arms in my 95 M3 I just bought ones for an e30 M3 (I think). According to Turner they are interchangable, but the e30 arms are $90 vs. $189.

EDIT: Savage217 has done the e30 arms as well.

[284Shooter]

'95 M3 control arms and E30 M3 control arms are the same geometry, but E30M3 arms are aluminum and very expensive. However, the e30m3 arms are designed to replace the ball joints.

I don't see why rebuilding these would be bad, however I figure doing the arms once every couple years is worth it in the long run.

[Em 63e]

the control arms on my 97 were supposed to be non press-able. they look just like tong's 95 LCA. I am taking them to the shop and trying to press them out on the 20 ton. if they come out, I am getting ball joints and putting them in. having another set can not be a bad thing.

[JETninja]

I replaced mine last Jan, popped out the old ones, pressed in new E30M3 inner and outter (Lemforder parts) and its good as new.....

Same for all E36 M3's...just use the Ball joints from the E30. Either Lemforder or Meyle HD. Some threads on it in the Track forum....

My Pics (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18477656&postcount=60)

[Albertan]

Gee, I spent a long time searching until I found a thread about the E30 ball joints. I just finished installing them and they fit fine. I have no idea why they say you can't replace the ball joints anyway. They were pressed in, they can be pressed out and replaced. I'd like to thank who ever it was that figured this out.

[Stück]

I have no idea why they say you can't replace the ball joints anyway.You have to understand this is a forum on the internet. People form opinions based on zero experience and present them as fact every day...

[Rayban]

how easy is it to remove control arms? I watched this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t_DKaZ64MY

and it looks very straightforward!! I'm fairly mechanically savy, but how long does it usually take to do?

thanks

[Em 63e]

I did it in 1 and a half hours. This is not including the pressing in of the bushings. but does include time to clean up and put the tools away

[spikemd]

I have 97 M3 control arms on my E30. I did a front M3 suspension swap on my E30 and a 318ti rear end. I also dropped in an S52 with OBDI conversion.

Anyway, I am trying to press out the outer ball joint on the passenger control arm and am having a b!tch of a time trying to press it out. The ball joint shaft itself broke out the bottom of the joint, similar to the pic earlier in the post. Now I am trying to press out the rest of the ball joint and am having difficulties. I have a ball joint press and am putting a 2 foot breaker bar with extension on it and it isn't moving much. I think the ball joint press is breaking as I don't see any movement in the ball joint casing and I am using a TON of force. I guess if I break something I get a new a-arm anyway.

Any suggestions? :shifty

[Tongboy]

I used a 3/4 socket as an arbor to press it out - if it's not moving you're probably hanging up on the side of hte bearing and pressing against hte arm - you can press against that all day long and not move it

[armorrig]

How do you guys press out the old balljoints? It seems the stud moves around especially with torn boots. Do you just have to make sure that it's pointing straight up?

[spikemd]

Pushing the stud out was part of my problem. The stud itself and the backing pressed out quite easily and it actually looked like the back of the joint is meant to press out easily without the casing itself. Hence, making the joint non-replaceable. The backing of the ball joint on the M3 arms do not have the reinforcement metal that the regular e36 and '95 M3s have so pushing on the stud itself just pops it through the bottom leaving the casing of the joint still pressed into the arm. Now I am trying to press on the metal top of the casing keeping it free of the arm itself, but it doesn't seem to budge. :mad

For example, this is a pic of a standard e36 ball joint with metal backing that won't allow the stud to push through...(mine popped right through the backing in a perfect circle)
http://socalmotorsport.com/images/eBay/e36_ball_joint.jpg

I will try again tomorrow morning.

As an FYI, they say the ball joints are 'solid' but it is still surrounded by plastic.

[armorrig]

I have 95 m3 CA's waiting to be installed. Im not sure if there is a metal backing plate on one of the balljoints. I'll check it out tomorrow.

[RRSperry]

1.) you need to learn how to use a press. Apply force to the outer part of the ball joint, not the center. For this you need a correctly fitting socket, or arbor. Just trying to push the spindle just leads to frustration.

2.) you need more tons. A 20 ton shop press is a really good thing.

[Albertan]

Listen to RRSperry, he knows of what he speaks. I have a 12 ton press and they came out very easily. Just bought another M3 so I'll have to do it
again for that one.

[armorrig]

1.) you need to learn how to use a press. Apply force to the outer part of the ball joint, not the center. For this you need a correctly fitting socket, or arbor. Just trying to push the spindle just leads to frustration.

2.) you need more tons. A 20 ton shop press is a really good thing.

duhh! yes of course! I wasn't thinking straight last night when I asked how to press it out via the shaft. :embarrasm I was only imagining the press coming down on the arm and didnt think about using the correct size socket.

I got to get me one of those shop press (I'll just stick with a 12-ton, much cheaper). I was able to press out 2 of the rear trailing arm balljoints using the socket+threaded rod method but it will make pressing anything so much easier with it.

[spikemd]

Wow, that was a frustrating and exhausting task. I finally got the job done using one of the hand presses you can rent from an autoparts store or buy at Harbor Freight. A hand press is the only way to do it while still on the car, but if you need to change both ball joints taking off the arm and using a press will be much easier. A press is definitely one of my next tools, just a pain to store it.

A few lessons learned in my frustrations...
It takes a TON on force to press out these ball joints on the arm by hand. Be sure line things up as straight as possible and when you have cranked on it and it isn't budging, bang the side of the a-arm with a hammer. That was the trick for me to get it moving and pressed out. You also need a large breaker bar and/or additional pipe for more leverage.

You also need a large prybar or other tool to keep the c-arm of the hand press from turning.

When pressing it back on, try and line things up, but if they aren't perfect, it should still press in. I kept taking it on/off trying to get it aligned perfectly but as soon as you shift the hand press, the whole thing falls out of whack and you start over.

Eat your wheaties because it is quite exhausting even using long breaker bars.

pics:
Here is a pic of the hand press with breaker bar to press it out. As you build of force and it isn't moving, whack the a-arm and then mine started to move.
http://www.speichers.com/pictures/e30s52/balljoint_taking_off.jpg

A pic of everything off. Note the jacked up remains of the old balljoint. You can also a few required tools and the hand press.
http://www.speichers.com/pictures/e30s52/balljoint_off.jpg

A pic of using the hand press to press the new joint in. I had to jack the car way high to get clearance for the bottom of the press. You can see my setup here as I had to hold the prybar with my hands and then used my feet to push on the breaker bar. At only 1/4 to 1/2 turn each time, it took some time and muscle.
http://www.speichers.com/pictures/e30s52/balljoint_going_on.jpg

FINALLY, ITS IN!!
http://www.speichers.com/pictures/e30s52/balljoint_on.jpg

I hope this helps anyone else looking to do it.

As I said, it can be done with the a-arm on the car, just takes some time and a lot of muscle. It would be exhausting to replace all four and I would recommend just buying new a-arms. I only had one balljoint that was bad. I know some suggest replacing both arms at the same time, but putting together my suspension, I got hold of used a-arms to be sure everything would align properly. I will be replacing them when the car is track ready.

I used Meyle balljoint for an E30 that I found on ebay. I would not get the cheapos found on ebay and don't get the E36 balljoints.

Right now, cash is tight, so paying $40 for the HF hand press and $30 for balljoint as opposed to $180 for the control arm was worth it. Plus now I have the press for u-joints/rear bushings/etc.

Good luck.

(I have E36 M3 front suspension with custom strut housings from Ground Control along with externally adjustable Konis and GC solid camber/caster plates and E36 steering rack on my E30 chassis. Rear is 318ti.)

[JETninja]

Yeah, we pressed mine out with the BMW tool just to show it works...its my pics. We also used a Press on the other side just cause. :D We did inners, outers and the pivot point ones also. Great fun...

[desynch]

An expensive lesson to learn. Press the balljoints in the correct orientation. There should be marks on the arm (or pay attention to the orientation of the old ones).

Also, if you're using a harbor freight hand press for the small outer balljoint, use a small 30mm socket (12pt or 6pt don't matter) as an arbor to press out the small demolished ball joint. It fits perfectly.

Now I need to go source another ball joint because one was pressed in incorrectly........

[fun2drive]

I think I am going to do this for my M3 vert.
I looked at Autohauz, Pelican, Tischer and RMEuro and only found Autohauz with Lemforder for the short ones and Meyle for the longer ones. Boge at RMEuro, nothing at Tischer and Pelican. Maybe updated numbers but if you sourced Lemforder where did you find them?
Thanks
Cool idea...

[Tongboy]

I think I am going to do this for my M3 vert.
I looked at Autohauz, Pelican, Tischer and RMEuro and only found Autohauz with Lemforder for the short ones and Meyle for the longer ones. Boge at RMEuro, nothing at Tischer and Pelican. Maybe updated numbers but if you sourced Lemforder where did you find them?
Thanks
Cool idea...

check for sachs parts now - lemforder was bought and they are midway to completing their name changeover to sachs for all their parts boxes and what not.

[kevinwilly]

Instead of using a big breaker bar on the hand press (c-clamp style one), it's MUCH easier to just use an impact gun on it.

I've got a 650 lb-ft impact gun, and using a ball joint press, I've never met one I couldn't get out in under 30 seconds. I've done some pretty heavy duty truck ones with it, and it still did it. For ball joints as small as these, it's like they are not even there.

Just food for thought.

Also- good to know that these can be replaced. I've never needed to on the M, but figured I would need to eventually.

The 318 is due for them, though. 339k miles and counting.... sure eats up a lot of ball joints....

[rebs]

Im so glad i came across this thread.

But having a 95, why would i purchase ball joints when i can get new e30 arms for 90 each?

[Tongboy]

Im so glad i came across this thread.

But having a 95, why would i purchase ball joints when i can get new e30 arms for 90 each?

if you have a press and don't mind spending the extra hour or so it's about half the price of buying new arms - otherwise the arms are a pretty solid value. replacing the arms every other service interval never hurts - they are fairly stressed if you beat on the car.

[fsmtnbiker]

FINALLY, ITS IN!!
http://www.speichers.com/pictures/e30s52/balljoint_on.jpg



I'm pretty sure that is 90 degrees off. I think the notches in the balljoint should be aligned fore/aft... I'm going from memory, though.

[kryatov123]

Just did all of mine lower part of front suspension on my 95 M3

Did my research and my first quote was $746+ ship (L and R control arms, tie rods, sway links, LCAB'S,

Than I went with 4 ball joints for control arms, tie rods, sway links, and powerflex bushings = $242+ about $40 ship.

$464 in savings, I did all job my self and used my uncles shop and his press. Now just waiting for Monday to do my Alighment

Sent from my iPhone using BF.com

[fun2drive]

I did press out the old ones today and installed the new ones. Lemforder for the outer and Meyle for the middle.
Here is why I used a press.
25 ton press went to over 5000 pounds to push the outer ball joints and 4000 for the middle. The idea of doing this with a ball joint C arm and using a rachet to get these out would have most likely broken the device.

It does take a series of sockets and bushings to get these out and in but all I need to do now is repaint the arms and install them with new LCABs.

Had to remove the boot and clip to make sure pressing them out was not going to be impeded by anything in the way.

Also was hard to determine the orientation of the outer ball joint with no mark on the control arm and the old ball joint was OEM with a BMW stanp and direction triangle. Middle joint is done just lining up the notches. There are notches on the outers too but there is an additional mounting mark so you don't get them 180 degrees wrong.

I am now curious as to how much tighter the front end will be once these are installed. New end links, new Bilsteins, new LCA ball joints and LCABs and new tie rods. If that doesn't help tighten up the front end I have no idea what will.

Kind of fun but man I would never do this without a press given how much force was used with this press to get them to pop...

[dev0i]

Seems like this thread started back in 2010. To any posters that posted back in 2010, and pressed in their own e30 ball joints, can you comment on how they are holding up?

Seems reasonable that they would work based on some of the measurements/dimensions etc that were taken, and that ball joints are made to be pressed in/out on a majority of chassis on numerous makes of cars, but it would be good to hear some actual feedback from the peeps who used them and have been driving on them for a bit. Any you guys out there? Please comment.

[nucci]

Lemforder inner balljoints only pressed in April 2010, 10K miles on them, still tight with no problems. I nicked both boots on the press and used gel Superglue to repair them - that appears to be holding up as well.

[JETninja]

Over 20K on mine, they're working fine....

[Tongboy]

10k HARD miles on mine and they are holding up fine.

[dano670]

Mine are holding up fine. I used Jetninja's advice. Though just like fun2drive said, you need a pretty serious press. I don't recall the capacity of the press I used, but I was nervous and I wore my safety goggles. I would do it again in a heartbeat, because I am cheap and broke.

[Pink]

So for Part Numbers.....

The only thing I'm finding is Outer Ball joint e36 part# 31126758510

Meyle HD

http://12.153.160.115/images/catalog/full/31126758510MY.jpg

Where are you getting the e30 parts/part numbers from? I assume you need that for the inner. I would just use above for the outer yes?

EDIT: Ok just saw they were on the first page. Above part number is NOT for 95, 96+ M3 Control arms. Use numbers below.

31 12 1 126 254
31 12 1 126 253

[moosifee]

Lemfoerder parts linked in this post (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=22423707&postcount=14).

[Pink]

I think it's already been mentioned but that e36 HD Meyle part I put a picture of above does not fit the e36M arms. It's much too big. I found the Lemfoerder's $130 for all 4 locally at ETY Parts in LA if anyone is looking in LA and wants a good place that has them.

The Meyle versions of the e30 M3 ball joints are not HD. (according to my dude, who says if it was HD it would say so, just regular Meyle.)

[alanilil]

The Meyle versions of the e30 M3 ball joints are not HD. (according to my dude, who says if it was HD it would say so, just regular Meyle.)


I ordered the myle's from Autohaus and they said "HD" on the box.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vuYs40GVqwI/Tj8caeUo9KI/AAAAAAAAKuo/4X2SGZc1RWY/s640/IMG_0110%25255B1%25255D.jpg




Did this job today using the 20 Ton Harbor Freight press. $160 using a 20% off coupon. Not a hard job at all using the press and some 3/4" sockets.

The press is a little spendy, but it's nice to have the ability to press control arm bushings, bearings, etc in the future. It breaks down pretty easily and doesn't take up much room.


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wlRHWiY0rDw/Tj8cW-2xvSI/AAAAAAAAKuk/nvrm9I6WlHo/s640/IMG_0109%25255B1%25255D.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kvkWLS0-_HU/Tj8cfxV47fI/AAAAAAAAKuw/AGH5j_Qpzg8/s640/IMG_0108%25255B1%25255D.jpg

[joexm3]

so im thinking off doing this too.. but im alittle confused do the parts stated above like 31 12 1 126 253, 31 12 1 126 254 fit for an 97 e36 m3? or just for the 95's? and the meyle hd dont fit? but ^ alanilil just installed it? if anyone could clarify would be great... thanks think i will be going to get that press too

[99MPower]

the ball joints will fit in either 95 or 96+ control arms, they are the same

[manya2]

I need part # for Ball Joint for a 98 M3 Vert. I'm looking for the Meyle HD Ball Joint and also the inner one too. Thank you !

[Hova]

I haven't done the job you're asking about but I have looked into it. At least two board members have done this: Stück and JETninja

The part numbers for the E30 joints are: 31 12 1 126 254 for the outer joint and 31 12 1 126 253 for the inner.

I wouldn't even consider using anything other than Lemforder. You can order them from Bimmerparts or AutohausAZ for $28.02 each for the outer and $33.78 each for the inner. You can even order them from Carquest for what was quoted to me as being a bit more.


I need part # for Ball Joint for a 98 M3 Vert. I'm looking for the Meyle HD Ball Joint and also the inner one too. Thank you !

........ Why you no read? :shifty


http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=20555532&postcount=11



http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=20549079&postcount=2


http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=22504144&postcount=63


http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=22477350&postcount=57




From RealOem.com :

Part 31122228461 (Wishbone, left) was found on the following vehicles:
E36: Details on E36
E36 M3 Convertible
E36 M3 Sedan
E36 M3 Coupe


All of the M3 control arms are the same.

[aron]

Lemfoerder Outer Ball Joints (http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=tpyeg555hgayi5zmgudyggif&pn=W0133-1627524)

Meyle HD Inner Ball Joints (http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=tpyeg555hgayi5zmgudyggif&partnumber=31%2012%201%20126%20253)

Lemfoerder Inner Ball Joints (http://www.bimmerparts.com/item.wws?sku=W0133-1626314&itempk=120927&mfr=Lemfoerder&weight=0.95)

[99MPower]

oh snap.. Lemforder inside/outsides...

I'm ordering like 3 sets for all the old control arms I have in the garage :)

[moosifee]

oh snap.. Lemforder inside/outsides...

I'm ordering like 3 sets for all the old control arms I have in the garage :)

Bimmerparts has insides and outsides if you prefer paying one shipping charge.


Lemfoerder outers are $56 for the pair (http://www.bimmerparts.com/item.wws?sku=W0133-1627524&itempk=120932&mfr=Lemfoerder&weight=0.75) while the inners are roughly $67 (http://www.bimmerparts.com/item.wws?sku=W0133-1626314&itempk=120927&mfr=Lemfoerder&weight=0.95).

[astigracing]

Lemfoerder Outer Ball Joints (http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=tpyeg555hgayi5zmgudyggif&pn=W0133-1627524)

Meyle HD Inner Ball Joints (http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=tpyeg555hgayi5zmgudyggif&partnumber=31%2012%201%20126%20253)

Lemfoerder Inner Ball Joints (http://www.bimmerparts.com/item.wws?sku=W0133-1626314&itempk=120927&mfr=Lemfoerder&weight=0.95)Hey Aron, I can fit any of these ball joints into my '98 M3 Vert right?

[aron]

Hey Aron, I can fit any of these ball joints into my '98 M3 Vert right?

I can only tell you that I bought those for my 97 M3 sedan. I would recommend using realoem.com to check and make sure your control arm part numbers are the same as a 97 M3 sedan. That said, they are probably the same.

[SG_M3]

I can only tell you that I bought those for my 97 M3 sedan. I would recommend using realoem.com to check and make sure your control arm part numbers are the same as a 97 M3 sedan. That said, they are probably the same.

They are the same, I just installed some in my 98 coupe arms.

[aron]

I decided to do this project this weekend because, well, what else can you do during a hurricane? I'm glad I got the 20 ton HF press instead of the 12 ton, those ball joints were IN there. Anyway, I noticed there were a lot of write-ups on making special tools to put the FCAB's back onto the control arm. If you buy/use a press for the ball joints, use it to install the FCAB's also (into the "lollipop" and onto the control arms). Took 10 seconds, see the pics.

[Chuck Norris]

Wich ones are better, Lemforder or Meyle HD???

This is getting confusing, cause a few guys mentionned installing E30 M3 balljoints but, most others are only refering to them as E30.
Are the part number mentionned in this thread for an E30 M3 or regular E30?


...I saw one post on the web about someone who used the E30 M3 ball joint no problem in a E36 M3...


I replaced mine last Jan, popped out the old ones, pressed in new E30M3 inner and outter (Lemforder parts) and its good as new...

Can the ball joints be replaced in the E30 M3 aluminum arms?


'95 M3 control arms and E30 M3 control arms are the same geometry, but E30M3 arms are aluminum and very expensive. However, the e30m3 arms are designed to replace the ball joints...

I'm trying to find outter Meyle HD for E30 on Ebay, because most suppliers mentionned here won't ship to Canada but, can't find them.

Anyone has experience with the Moog ones on Autohauz site? Cause I know I can get Moog localy.

Thanks.

Alex.

[olemiss540]

I would not get Moog ball joints, as they have a high risk of early failure... Lemforder for balljoints!

[Chuck Norris]

I would not get Moog ball joints, as they have a high risk of early failure... Lemforder for balljoints!

Thanks for your input.

What makes Lemforder better thanb Meyle HD?? I like the fact that the Meyles are full metal, are the Lemforder also full metal??

[bimurtud]

I'm about to order
31 12 1 126 254 outers and
0133-1626314 inners, all Lemforder.
For some reason no one on this thread is mentioning control arm bushings, at
a glance mine look fine but my car has 160k. Isn't this a "while I'm there" type of thing or do these not really wear out. I don't really want to spend the extra $80 but I will...
All this info should be a sticky somewhere instead of pouring through and deciphering all these posts.

Just got this car :redspot 1998 cosmos sedan on black leather, it's pretty awesome. Sit's in the driveway with the granite 1992 535im, they look damn good together.
Got a minor 5 gear detent problem, hoping redline d4 might help a little. Just put in the zhp shifter and got some nice used oem M3 mats of ebay. Would love to put some ceramic pads on, can't take dirty wheels but the brakes are incredible. Stereo sucks(not HK), does this even have the door speakers, can't hear anything. What are my simple stereo upgrades? Airbag light on, mechanic says the seat belt buckles fail but I've read it can be many things. Crappy hanging exhaust shield sound like a common problem. Little guibo vibration, that will have to wait till I need a clutch I guess. Super clean for 160k, looks like 60k. I'll have to get a picture. Thanks everyone.

Joe
slc,ut
98' M3 sedan manual of course
92' 535im
84' 4000q

[aron]

I'm about to order
31 12 1 126 254 outers and
0133-1626314 inners, all Lemforder.
For some reason no one on this thread is mentioning control arm bushings, at
a glance mine look fine but my car has 160k. Isn't this a "while I'm there" type of thing or do these not really wear out. I don't really want to spend the extra $80 but I will...
All this info should be a sticky somewhere instead of pouring through and deciphering all these posts.


IIRC the FCAB's come in pairs, it should be $40. They are easier to do with the control arms removed. Check out post #77 farther up this page.

[bimurtud]

Thanks for the info. The pic shows 2 where I am ordering but quantity says one, I think you are right though. Did I get those other part numbers correct? I think I did but there was some conflicting numbers on a few posts.
31 12 1 126 254 outers and
0133-1626314 inners, is what I got.
But someone mentioned
31 12 1 126 253 too, but I can't find those anywhere.

I'm sure I need
31 12 1 126 254 for the outer.
The question is do I need
0133-1626314 inners(post 59) or
31 12 1 126 253(that doesn't seem to exist anymore) (post 57)inners.

31 12 1 126 254 and
0133-1626314 both come up when shopping partsgeek as fitting an 88' M3, but only -08/31/88

Thanks again.

Joe 98' M3 sedan

[tuanathon]

I read through this whole thread and couldnt find the part number needed for a non-m e36 or are they the same as an m3? Or would it be better to upgrade to M3 control arms?

[dano670]

I read through this whole thread and couldnt find the part number needed for a non-m e36 or are they the same as an m3? Or would it be better to upgrade to M3 control arms?

I don't believe they are the same. If they were the people with E36 M3s would not be pressing in E30 ball joints, they would be pressing in ball joints from an E36 328.

The FCABs are different, but interchangeable. The M versions have more rubber in them and are a nice upgrade.

[JETninja]

Can the ball joints be replaced in the E30 M3 aluminum arms?

Alex.

Yes, but not recommended for street use, they have a fatigue factor and should be replaced every couple years.... that's why no one uses them.

[Pink]

Yes, but not recommended for street use, they have a fatigue factor and should be replaced every couple years.... that's why no one uses them.

And the weight you save vs. how much they cost is not worth it at all.

To someone else's question up above the Lemfoerder's are all metal as well. Only the e30 balljoints fit in the e36 m3 arms.

31 12 1 126 254
31 12 1 126 253

That's it, those are the part numbers. Order from autohausaz or call any bmw parts supplier and talk to him on the phone with those numbers.

Also Non-M control arms are different and use a larger outer ball joint.

[jamie123]

ive ordered these ball joints but when they arrived they have no alignment notches<how can i check they are in correctly when i fit them?
j.

[dano670]

I think the inners have a notch that you point towards the outside of the car. The inner joint I believe can only pivot in a certain direction. The outer can pivot 360. I am not 100% sure of this.

[alanilil]

There is a triangle cast on the non-notched ball joint for alignment

[PSURT]

So not to really bump an old thread, but do they sell replacement rubbers for the dust cover on the ball joints? I need to replace my outer ball joint on my car, but the inner one seems ok, but the rubber dust seal is a bit torn. Should I just bite the bullet and replace both or try to find a replacement dust cover? Thanks

[Hova]

So not to really bump an old thread, but do they sell replacement rubbers for the dust cover on the ball joints? I need to replace my outer ball joint on my car, but the inner one seems ok, but the rubber dust seal is a bit torn. Should I just bite the bullet and replace both or try to find a replacement dust cover? Thanks

If I recall correctly, no. You can clean the boot, and apply some RTV. The point of the boot is to keep the ball joint clean.

[alanilil]

So not to really bump an old thread, but do they sell replacement rubbers for the dust cover on the ball joints? I need to replace my outer ball joint on my car, but the inner one seems ok, but the rubber dust seal is a bit torn. Should I just bite the bullet and replace both or try to find a replacement dust cover? Thanks

I'd bite the bullet and do them both. We're talking about $50 in parts.

Removing the control arms isn't all that much work and it's MUCH easier to remove and install the ball joints with a press. Also a great opportunity to replace control arm bushings.

[PSURT]

Well I just ordered both from AutohausAZ. I've never used a press before, how hard is it? I've done motor mounts and brakes and other things like that before, so how does it rate on that scale? To be honest, it looks kinda easy.

[3MPowered]

And the weight you save vs. how much they cost is not worth it at all.

To someone else's question up above the Lemfoerder's are all metal as well. Only the e30 balljoints fit in the e36 m3 arms.

31 12 1 126 254
31 12 1 126 253

That's it, those are the part numbers. Order from autohausaz or call any bmw parts supplier and talk to him on the phone with those numbers.

Also Non-M control arms are different and use a larger outer ball joint.

Cheers for this, makes things easier to have it concisely put in one place :)

These are sold in pairs right? It says nothing on autohauz's description so I just wanted to make sure.
It does however say this under the description for the inner ball joints: "For models with Meyle HD replacement control arm only, cannot be used with stock control arm or other brand replacements. 2 per car."

Is this just to be ignored? Seems everyone here is having luck with the factory congtrol arms anyway?? :help

[Pink]

Yes, if you used those part numbers ignore that.

They're not sold in pairs, 2/side so like $120-$130 for all 4.

[3MPowered]

Does anyone have a good DIY for pressing out the control arm ball joints? I'm mostly looking for technique as I'll have access to a shop press on Wednesday. I tried searching Youtube and couldn't find anything useful.

[dano670]

I haven't seen one. Just remember that the inners have an alignment groove. Also, if you are new at using a press, consider buying an extra inner and outer. You can easily sell it here for a few bucks less than you paid for it.

[3MPowered]

So I went down to have a go at taking off the control arms (the first logical step :rolleyes) and noticed that I already have poly bushed FCABs - or at least they appeared to be poly underneath all the dust. While it's always nice to learn something new about your car (and the PO) this made me reconsider replacing the ball joints because I was planning on doing the FCABs at the same time.

Is there a good way of testing the condition of the ball joints without removing the control arm? If they're truely in need of replacing then I'll gladly do it.

[jayjaya29]

So I went down to have a go at taking off the control arms (the first logical step :rolleyes) and noticed that I already have poly bushed FCABs - or at least they appeared to be poly underneath all the dust. While it's always nice to learn something new about your car (and the PO) this made me reconsider replacing the ball joints because I was planning on doing the FCABs at the same time.

Is there a good way of testing the condition of the ball joints without removing the control arm? If they're truely in need of replacing then I'll gladly do it.


If the boots are torn on the ball joints thats a good indication they are on their way out. All 4 of the boots on my ball joints were torn but only one ball joint had excessive free play.

[3MPowered]

If the boots are torn on the ball joints thats a good indication they are on their way out. All 4 of the boots on my ball joints were torn but only one ball joint had excessive free play.

You could only notice the play once the control arm was off though, right? I don't recall seeing any torn boots but I don't know how loose the ball joints feel. Chances are, if the PO took the time to replace the FCABs he also replaced the control arms... at least, that's my hypothesis :shifty

[jayjaya29]

You could only notice the play once the control arm was off though, right? I don't recall seeing any torn boots but I don't know how loose the ball joints feel. Chances are, if the PO took the time to replace the FCABs he also replaced the control arms... at least, that's my hypothesis :shifty

I didn't really check for play before removing the CAs.

The play was in the Y axis...as if you pull the stud up and down the ball would move up and down in the cup. Perhaps you could feel play if you wedge a crowbar inbetween the CA and the spindle and try to move it around.

Its possible to just replace the FCABs without removing the CAs...

[Hova]

FYI

Inner (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G6T4WC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER)

Outer (http://www.amazon.com/Lemfoerder-W0133-1627524-LEM-Lemforder-Ball-Joint/dp/B001G6KHSW/ref=pd_bxgy_auto_img_b)

I just received these today.

The part numbers I ordered are different than what others here are mentioning.... Yet they still say they fit the same car, e30 m3.

01331626314

And:

01331626314


Thoughts?

[jayjaya29]

^ Same number...

[Hova]

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=2305&pictureid=12105

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=2305&pictureid=12104

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=2305&pictureid=12103

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=2305&pictureid=12102

Jon

This is exactly why this board is still alive.

[trahsub]

When I replaced the control arms in my 95 M3 I just bought ones for an e30 M3 (I think). According to Turner they are interchangable, but the e30 arms are $90 vs. $189.

EDIT: Savage217 has done the e30 arms as well.

Can we explore this again? E30M3 aluminum arms are marketed for 95M3s, this we know.

Now are steel E30 control arms DIFFERENT (in geometry) than the Aluminum ones?

What I'm getting at, is whether or not the steel E30arms would work on an E36, specifically the 95.

EDIT - Looking through threads, it does appear the non M-E30 steel arms are identical to the 95M3 arms, offering another cheaper option to 95M3 owners. $90 bucks for new arms vs. $200. If accurate, what is BMW doing, stamping different p/n's on these things as they come off the line to charge E36 people more money?

[M3GSX]

I just swapped in a E30 Inner ball joint into my 1998 E36 M3 Control arm. I used my air-hammer and my torch. Took me a little over an hour to get the job done.

E30 ball joint = $20 with my shop discount. They even drove it to my shop. Saved a bunch of cash. This saves $$$$$

Thanks to whoever figured this out.

[science86]

Sorry to bump an old thread but does anyone have the dimensions of the inner ball joint? Trying to see if 31121126253 will fit in a Non-M control arm. I'm aware the outer is larger but looking to see if this ball joint would fit.

[JCooper]

Im so confused... Whats the point in doing all the extra work pressing in e30 balljoints. OEM arm bushings are good for 5ish years


And when they fail you can look forward to doing it again... You really aren't the first person to think of this...
+1

[hellrot328m]

What about a non M arm? Do regular e30 balljoints fit? I have centered lcab bushings and M3 spindles/brakes. Is it wrong that I'm using non M arms?

[dano670]

What about a non M arm? Do regular e30 balljoints fit? I have centered lcab bushings and M3 spindles/brakes. Is it wrong that I'm using non M arms?

The non-M arms use non M-arm ball joints. The M arms were considered not serviceable from the factory. But I believe most of the non-M people switch to the solid bushings of the m3.

[trahsub]

Can we explore this again? E30M3 aluminum arms are marketed for 95M3s, this we know.

Now are steel E30 control arms DIFFERENT (in geometry) than the Aluminum ones?

What I'm getting at, is whether or not the steel E30arms would work on an E36, specifically the 95.

EDIT - Looking through threads, it does appear the non M-E30 steel arms are identical to the 95M3 arms, offering another cheaper option to 95M3 owners. $90 bucks for new arms vs. $200. If accurate, what is BMW doing, stamping different p/n's on these things as they come off the line to charge E36 people more money?
Self bump. I'm planning to order new arms for my 95M3. I'm going to order steel E30 arms...which I think will net the same results as if I were to replace the ball joints on my currents arms with the E30 ball joints referenced on page 1??

[ThreeD]

Self bump. I'm planning to order new arms for my 95M3. I'm going to order steel E30 arms...which I think will net the same results as if I were to replace the ball joints on my currents arms with the E30 ball joints referenced on page 1??

Are the geometries of the arms themselves the same?

[conway]

Are the geometries of the arms themselves the same?

I believe they are the same geometry as the 95 arms, maybe some else can confirm as i'm not 100% sure.

[trahsub]

Geometry has been confirmed the same...pretty much. It's the composition of the ball joints. Lots of theories...with 95s>E30>96-99 being strongest in that order...but that is only what I have read. Only thing confirmed is that there is plastic in the ball joints the DIY guy cut open, which were from an E36 OBD2 M3 I believe.

[5speed300]

Just to continue adding data points, I'm at 20,000 miles on my e30 lemfoeder bushings. This includes about 70 autocross runs with sticky 245 tires all around. So far no complaints.

[M3Jokster]

Just called a local shop. They quoted me $120 labor to remove and press new ball joints for both control arm. (thats $30/ball joint Is this reasonable? What's the going rate?

[conway]

Just called a local shop. They quoted me $120 labor to remove and press new ball joints for both control arm. (thats $30/ball joint Is this reasonable? What's the going rate?
The harbor freight press is around $100. I'd buy the press and do it myself, plus you get a press out of the deal.

[alanilil]

Just called a local shop. They quoted me $120 labor to remove and press new ball joints for both control arm. (thats $30/ball joint Is this reasonable? What's the going rate?

That sounds very reasonable to me. All depends on how much time you have and if you want a press.

[anarekist]

so do the control arms minus the ball joints ever go bad? they look like pretty sturdy pieces of steel, if all you have to do is replace balljoints sounds like a good deal.

[jayjaya29]

so do the control arms minus the ball joints ever go bad? they look like pretty sturdy pieces of steel, if all you have to do is replace balljoints sounds like a good deal.

I doubt it, unless you really $%^& up the install and bend the arms...

[ForcedFirebird]

Just thought I would pass some more information along.

I own a small e30 specialty shop and keep e30 ball joints on hand. Had a 1995 318ti come in with bad outer ball joints. As always, I do a complete rebuild when replacing just the outers, since the control arms come out anyways, why not spend the few extra minutes to replace the CAB's and inner joints as well. Called my supplier to order all four, they told me that the inners don't exist - little did he know haha.

I peeled the boot off the inner joints, took measurements and low-and-behold, the inner joints are the very same 41mm diameter. Of course on the non-M e36, the outer joints are specific with the strange tab on the bottom and are e36 specific, but all in all, the 1995 e36 inner joints joints can be replaced with the e30 part.

To verify, pry the little circlip off the ball joint boot and use a digital caliper to verify, but something tells me BMW just wanted to sell the entire control arm.

I have been replacing the M ball joints for some time now, using e30, never knew this thread existed until I wanted to see if other people thought of doing this to the non-M arms.

[JETninja]

so do the control arms minus the ball joints ever go bad? they look like pretty sturdy pieces of steel, if all you have to do is replace balljoints sounds like a good deal.

The Aluminum ones do, but not the Steel ones. Many East Coast Tracks have a 2yr replacement policy on anyone running the Alum ones...

[Demon Speed]

For those using the E30 replacement inner ball joint, is a press fit of the ball joint shaft into the engine cradle maintained?

My car 98' M3.
I ordered Lemforder W0133-1626314-LEM (cross to this p/n 31121126253)and installed replaced the stock BMW ball joint with this one.

Once bolted in if you loosen the inner ball joint nut the ball joint the LCA fall down out of the engine cradle, ie. it is not a press fit.

Anyone experience this?

[jayjaya29]

You are probably not fully tightening the ball joint nut when you initially install them.

[Demon Speed]

Believe me it's tight. I thought the same thing at first. I am wondering if the taper on the shaft is different between the E30 and E36 ball joint. Or if somehow I got the wrong part.

[ForcedFirebird]

I measured them and the tapers are the same, perhaps you got the wrong part? I have ordered Moog ball joints and got Febi stamped parts in a box before. You never know.

[MMMGP]

The part numbers match from my Amazon order history.

http://amzn.com/B001G6T4WC

http://amzn.com/B001G6KHSW

[jayjaya29]

No problems here and I can also confirm the part numbers match.

When you reinstall them, place a floor jack on the underside of the ball joint while tightening to prevent the shaft from spinning.

[PITT M3 RR]

Just ordered the inners and outers by lemforder from amazon. They're having a 30 gift for new members signing up for their CC. I did that, and my total came to 97.00 bucks for all four to my door with 2 day shipping.

Already had the 12ton press from doing all my bushings and bearings so Im good to go. Cant wait.

[ForcedFirebird]

That's a good price. For future reference, blunttech.com has them for $117 shipped - regular price for the Lemforder. I personally aren't hyped up on the Lemforder, had a customer have us install Lemforder control arms and the ball joints didn't last 6mos on flat Florida roads as a street-only daily driver. We generally use Moog and have had several cars at Sebring and Homestead and they are still nice and stiff after the last few racing seasons.
Moog at blunttech.com are $114 shipped - regular price, couple dollars less than Lemforder, even.

[M3Jokster]

Should i invest in a 12-ton or 20-ton hydraulic press....
The price difference is about 75 bucks.... 199 (20T)compared to 129 (12T) and i get an additional 20% off too..

[Hova]

I was in this dilemma as well.
I went the cheap route and went with the 12 ton press.
There is A LOT of flex in the 12 ton press when trying to get the old ball joints out. The I-beam on the bottom and top both deflect at least 1cm. The 12ton press does work just fine though. Expect to hear a LOUD bang sound when the ball joint breaks free. Your local auto parts store (Autozone, Advanced Auto Parts, ETC.) should have this tool for rent: http://www.harborfreight.com/ball-joint-service-kit-for-2wd-and-4wd-vehicles-4065.html
It is a tool worth its weight in gold. Once you use it, you can return it back to the store for your deposit back. You can do the ball joint swap with just this tool on a vise BTW. You can just put the C-clamp in the vise, and press the ball joint out with a good sized breaker bar. Heat helps here. If you have a blow torch, use it. You could avoid buying anything if you wanted. Just a thought.

[ForcedFirebird]

12 ton will press ball joints, but the frame is kind of weak (as mentioned). If you have a welder, though, just weld it together and it will be a lot more stable.

[PITT M3 RR]

Yea and Just for the record, I did all of the rear ball joints with the 12 ton, all bushings and even wheel bearings.

[Jrrrrrrr]

Ad infintium on the amount of flex in the HF 12-ton press. It works for any sort of balljoint, bearing or bushing on light cars like these, and much much more, but I would have gone with the 20-ton if I were buying again.

Thoughts (and DIY) on pressing these balljoints with a HF 12-ton press:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=402063

[ForcedFirebird]

I use a bearing kit for bearings, so they can be done on the car.

[PITT M3 RR]

I got ya, I have an entire extra rear end I refreshed though! Easy out.

[ForcedFirebird]

Awesome. Only reason I'm in this thread is because of e30's lol. Just did a major restore on an entire e30 rear section. Some of our clients have e36's and that lead me here. It's kind of crazy that people buy new control arms, rather than have a local press them together.

[riverrats97]

I had originally planned to buy the BimmerWorld replacement front control arm set for the E36 because I was told by several reputable BMW shops that by 100k miles the stock arms would most likely have bent slightly from potholes and such, on top of the ball joints being shot. However I've also seen several claims that the stock steel E36 arms will not bend under any driving circumstances; Including years and years of racing, nasty potholes, etc, in which case replacing the joints would be the way to go. I haven't gotten to reassembling the front end yet but I'm still not sure which way to go. Seems like there haven't been any issues reported by the guys reusing the original arms though.

[RobertFontaine]

Silly question but it seems like a big clamp w/ an arbor and an impact gun would get the job done pretty quick.

[jayjaya29]

No way would that have enough force to push the ball joint out. You need a press.

[PHATassM3]

I worked for bmw as a tech and we have reused the arms numerous times...

[RobertFontaine]

So this would just be funny then?

http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8309338/Steering-%26-Suspension/Ball-Joint-Remover-%26-Installer-Set

this i mean

http://images.palcdn.com/hlr-system/WebPhotos/83/830/8309/8309338.jpg

[PHATassM3]

So this would just be funny then?

http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8309338/Steering-%26-Suspension/Ball-Joint-Remover-%26-Installer-Set

this i mean

http://images.palcdn.com/hlr-system/WebPhotos/83/830/8309/8309338.jpg

lol i have used one of those in a pinch before haha but a press works best :lol And to remove i used an air hammer

[RobertFontaine]

I'm unlikely to buy a compressor, air tools and a 20 ton press to get this done as much as I would like to.

[PHATassM3]

honestly cheapest way is pull arms off bring arms and new parts to pepboys or any shop they willl usually press everything in for you for 20-30 bucks or find a local who has a press

[rohner88]

Anyone use the meyle non hd brand ball joints without any issues? They're like half the price?

[PHATassM3]

meyle is usually decent stuff

[rohner88]

any difference with meyle and meyle hd ball joints?

[PHATassM3]

difference is is the "hd" is heavy duty so i would imagine they may last longer but im not sure the difference between the 2 i personally use only bmw stuff but have installed many diff kinds in customer cars without incident..

[jayjaya29]

Meyle HD are full metal construction and will last a lot longer. Do it right the first time...

[RobertFontaine]

I borrowed a Ball Joint Remover/Installer kit from PartSource today. F**'ing ball joint just laughed at me. I'm going to have to pick up a big breaker bar at a minimum.

I may take the earlier advice and phone around and see if I can get a shop to press out the old ones and press in the new ones for me.

.... Picked up a 2 foot 1/2" breaker bar today and leaned on it. Success. The press is optional.

[Sniz]

Just did this on mine and saved a bunch of $$. Got MOOG balljoints, good quality.

broke my vise on the 2nd balljoint though, old thing couldnt handle the TQ of a 1/2 driver on the C clamp with a 4 ft pipe.

dropped it all off my to my local shop so he can press them. new vise on order.

The old balljoints were SHOT after 102k miles. real bad. also replacing all sway bar bushings/links front and rear, they are also real bad.

[conway]

Pressed mine out tonight, forgot to mark orientation. To confirm, this is the correct orientation?

[jayjaya29]

Yeah lining up the notches so they are parallel to the FCAB rod is fine.

That looks correct.

[mgoods50]

What's up with those lollies?

[conway]

What's up with those lollies?

http://www.treehouseracing.com/new/?wpsc-product=e30e36-eyeball-arms-control-arm-bushing-set-2

They are a nice alternative to those who don't want to press out the old fcabs. Although a bit pricy.

[mgoods50]

Hmm. I'd like to see alignment specs with them installed along side of fresh components. 'Ya gotta take the FCABS off anyway, and the offset vs. centered bushings deals with camber... hmm.. (thinking as I type) I'll bookmark that for later reference. Thanks for posting :)

Anyway- back to your control arms. How many miles are on those? The reason I ask is because they do tend to tweak a bit over the years. An alignment spec will reveal any wear.

[conway]

Those aren't actually mine, just googled a picture for reference. The ones i'm pressing new bushings into have 80k on them I assume, unless the PO replaced them at some point. The aluminum e30 ones I would be worried about, i'm not concerned with our steel versions.

[mgoods50]

Oh- okay.
But be aware, the steel ones do tweak. Just mind your alignment specs- that's where the facts are. I'd probably replace the arms on the next go-round for good measure.

GAWD those aluminum ones are expensive! I thought of using them, but the weight savings for my purposes (and potential for getting bent up) far outweighed any benefits for me.

[conway]

Pickle forks work great, I did mine yesterday with them. A few good whacks with a sledge hammer and they popped free.
I used these. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002SRG4S/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0002SRG4S&linkCode=as2&tag=carfibfibdiyh-20)

I think I used a 22mm socket to press the old ones out. I cut the ends of the ball joints off the second time I pressed them out, that way I wasn't pressing on the threaded rod.

[BigRed27]

I've been following this DIY as well as some others and have run into a problem. I have pressed in new inner ball joints but after getting them in, they are easily movable (essentially the same as the old ball joints). This has happened twice to the same control arm. The weird thing is that the other one worked the first time.

If I had to guess, I accidentally put the force of the press on the rubber boot instead of the control arm metal for the most recent one. Could this have done it? Has anybody experienced anything like this?

I'm getting the outer ball joints today and would like to not mess up so is there any trick? I need to get this right so I can get my car back on the road! Thanks in advance for any help.

Update---------------------------------------------------------

I pressed in the new one and the same thing happened. I also pressed in the outer ball joints and they were stiff. So there's something wrong with control arm.
Should I be concerned if everything else is ok? Will it wear out the other suspension components prematurely?

[mgoods50]

If you're talking about the friction of the ball in the [baljoint assembly] cup, I wouldn't be overly concerned. As long as there is no boot damage, and the balljoint is seated properly in the control arm you should be fine. There is no "slop" in the new joint, right? That said, I've not personally encountered this so I'm not sure what could have gone wrong- but I'm very careful to use the right sized arbors.

[Regamaster]

Big ups to this thread for all the helpful knowledge. I refreshed my FLCAs a few weeks ago with Meyle ball joints and Lemfoerder bushings, here are some photos:

Here's how an E36 M3's control arms look after 150K in the Midwest
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/mizzom3/1.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/mizzom3/media/1.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/mizzom3/2.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/mizzom3/media/2.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/mizzom3/3.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/mizzom3/media/3.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/mizzom3/4.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/mizzom3/media/4.jpg.html)

Worn joints and bushings removed
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/mizzom3/5.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/mizzom3/media/5.jpg.html)

Pressing in the new ones
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/mizzom3/6.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/mizzom3/media/6.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/mizzom3/7.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/mizzom3/media/7.jpg.html)

Arms cleaned up, wire brushed, and everything pressed
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/mizzom3/8.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/mizzom3/media/8.jpg.html)

Decided to hit them with some paint
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/mizzom3/9.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/mizzom3/media/9.jpg.html)

..And the final product. :buttrock
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/mizzom3/10.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/mizzom3/media/10.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/mizzom3/11-1.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/mizzom3/media/11-1.jpg.html)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/mizzom3/12.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/mizzom3/media/12.jpg.html)

I spent just under $80 in parts (not including tools or labor of course), so yeah I'm pretty satisfied. :)

Will be addressing my tie rods and RTABs next, thanks for viewing.

[shogun]

So even with a 12 ton press it works. I just bought a 20 ton press, so I can go ahead with doing it.

To summarize what I have read here and in other places (please correct me if wrong):

For my 02/98 M3:
2x 31121126254 outer ball joints. Meyle or Lemfoerder
2x 31121126253 inner ball joints
or equivalent to these part numbers

2 x 31129069035 control arm bushing set front (Bushings only, need to be pressed into bracket)

Comment on another board: "Those are indeed the part numbers I used for my 11/98 car - all of the 96+ control arms are the same and people have posted that these part numbers work with 1995 arms, too. I've never heard of control arms where the balljoints are integral, so they can all be pressed in and out."

[greentalks43]

I have a question, how does one replace the outer ball joints on the e36 325i that has the retaining clip?
502785

[flyfishvt]

You press the whole thing out from above. That clip doesn't play any part in it

[RRSperry]

When I did this for a friend, I cut the clippy thing off first, so I could get a socket over it.

[Genes1s]

For those who use LemF inner and outer ball joints from Amazon, did it come with lock nut?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G6T4WC/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=32S6N1O5ITLZ5&coliid=IUFEYB2KFW9PK
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G6KHSW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=32S6N1O5ITLZ5&coliid=I1MZDLGWXE84BI

If not, what size are they? M12 X 1.5? Anyone know where I can find ball joints with cotter pin instead of lock nut?

thanks

[flyfishvt]

Yes they come with a nut

[Genes1s]

Yes they come with a nut

Thanks.

I also been trying to source the hex bolts that secure the front control arm bushing holder to the body. Did you guys re-use or get new ones.

i wish the Bentley cross ref it with part number....

[flyfishvt]

Reuse them

[e46tknv]

I need to replace my ball joint on my 1998 e36 m3 coupe. I can literally shake the wheel back and forth and see the ball joint moving left and right.

I ordered the e30 m3 lemforder inner and outer ball joint. I just need to press old ones and press new ones in. Does the Autozone Loan-A-Tool Ball Joint press sufficient enough to do the job?

[jayjaya29]

Does the Autozone Loan-A-Tool Ball Joint press sufficient enough to do the job?

No. You are going to need a 12-ton press to do the job.

[emccallum]

12 ton wasnt enough to get mine out, but seems to work for most people. Sounds like you are just doing one side. I would do both. Remove the control arms and take them to a machine shop and have them pressed in, they shouldn't charge much.

[RRSperry]

Nope, you need at least a 12, 20 is better.

[flyfishvt]

Yea I just did this with my 20 ton. 12 ton would be a struggle.

[ForcedFirebird]

I have a 12ton press in my shop and have pressed hundreds of e30/36 ball joints over the past several years. It hasn't broken a sweat.

[jholder]

For the record I just bought the HF 20T press for a hair over $160 just the other day with that 20% coupon. I think It's good till the end of the month.
I literally just came in from pressing in the second set of bushings, the hardest thing for me was choosing how to arrange the arbor plates to press the new bearings in.
I'd say the first side took about 30 minutes to press out and get the new ones in. The second took about 15 minutes to press out and in.

And it just paid for itself.

That's exactly how I explained it to my wife. :p

[shogun]

I just found dimensions, thread, pitch etc on a German website, just for info:

31121126254 outer ball joints

Konussteigung/cone pitch: 1/10
Konusmaß/cone size [mm]: 14,4
Aussendurchmesser/outer diameter [mm]: 41,4
Gewindemaß/thread size MM12x1.5R
Höhe/height [mm]: 80

31121126253 inner ball joints

Aussengewinde/outer thread [mm]: M14 x 1,5
Konussteigung/cone pitch: 1/5
Konusmaß/cone size [mm]: 14,8
Aussendurchmesser [mm]: 41,4
Durchmesser/diameter [mm]: 14,8
Höhe/height [mm]: 135

[Alpine 318is]

I’m having trouble finding a shop to press these bushings in. My local Indy BMW shop wanted $285 which almost makes it not worth it. What kinda shops did you guys find that would be willing to do this. Thanks.

[emccallum]

I’m having trouble finding a shop to press these bushings in. My local Indy BMW shop wanted $285 which almost makes it not worth it. What kinda shops did you guys find that would be willing to do this. Thanks.

For that money I would get a Harbor freight press and do it yourself.

I would think most any legit auto repair shop has a press.

I have used these types of bushing tools many times with good results:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27PC-Universal-Press-Pull-Sleeve-Tool-Bush-Bearing-Installer-Hand-Kit-for-Car-LC/382518228826?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[shogun]

get a c-clamp ball joint press, might work , HF has that too, here someone used them for trailing arm bushings, based on that result I also bought such a solid c-clamp http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/507089

[bluptgm3]

Linking -
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2400335-M-Roadster-Ball-Joint-Replacement-(validation)&p=30225440#post30225440

[persiandude]

Picked up a 20ton press from Harbor Freight this weekend for $140 after a coupon. I am going to remove the arms and press out the old ball joints. What size socket is everyone using to press them out / press new ball joints in? Ive see 3/4 socket mentioned once on this thread.

Did anyone cut the flange on the back of the existing ball joints to press them out from the bottom OR did you press the out from the top side (with the threaded part)?

https://www.eeuroparts.com/blog/5319/how-to-replace-press-in-ball-joints/

[bluptgm3]

Reading ALL of the related threads, the long shaft of the BJ is cut off and pressed out from upper side.


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[pbonsalb]

Watch your feet and shins when they are about to come out. They can come out fast and hard.

[Skunk]

I went and checked the socket, it was a 27mm deep impact socket from HF. Got a threaded coupling thing from Ace for a few bucks. You may need something stronger but Sprayed my ball joints with quite a bit of penetrating oil which did penetrate the rust from what I saw so the balljoint didn't explode out like crazy.
656047

656048

[BMWManiac]

I'm going to attempt this soon...my 24mm deep impact sock seemed perfect too....i read 30mm in another thread, but the outside diameter is too big. I figure 24 - 27mm would all work since they all apply uniform pressure on the interior of the joint

[bluptgm3]

I figure 24 - 27mm would all work since they all apply uniform pressure on the interior of the joint

Simply applying pressure to inner surface of BJ is not going to guarantee success. Need to be sure your applying outside column of the BJ.


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[JitteryJoe]

Don't forget to mark the orientation. BJs are directional (that sounds kind of funny).

[BMWManiac]

Simply applying pressure to inner surface of BJ is not going to guarantee success. Need to be sure your applying outside column of the BJ.


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I guess I'm not tracking....as long as the socket covers the metal part of the ball joint, then that sucker should have sufficient area to apply force....are you saying that the metal column will break in half?

[bluptgm3]

I guess I'm not tracking....as long as the socket covers the metal part of the ball joint, then that sucker should have sufficient area to apply force..

You can push the BJ shaft thru the BJ case if you are not applying force to the case side walls.


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[persiandude]

Reading ALL of the related threads, the long shaft of the BJ is cut off and pressed out from upper side.



It was a major major pain in the ass to get the passenger side outer ball joint out of the knuckle. I am going to cut off the threaded shaft and then try press out - picked up 24mm, 27mm and 32mm deep sockets.

I had to order some crowfoot wrenchs because that seems like the only way to torque the inner ball joint with that tiny area of clearance. Hopefully they work

[persiandude]

What do you all recommend to put under ball joint on the arm to allow it to sit perpendicular to the arbor press?

Marked the ball joint locations with a metal punch on the backside

[Cos270]

Not to deter anyone from getting their hands dirty, but what is the advantage of replacing the ball joints when I can (and just did) order a pair of new arms for less than $120?

[shogun]

A pair for $120 or less, original? Show us...
for example for my 02/98 p/n is 31122228461 left side, 31122228462 right side.
One MTC Control Arm 31122228461 per piece discounted online price $150/piece x 2 = $300

[Cos270]

They're Mevotech brand from RockAuto (I know, I know). After doing some quick searches after the fact, it looks like I've probably set myself up for premature failure. Unfortunately I don't have the time to wait until FCPeuro gets in more Lemforders. My M3 sedan just got relegated to daily duty (in MI nonetheless, although the roads I drive everyday aren't terrible) and I just put stainless steel brake hoses on the front and I'm getting ready to replace the front drivers caliper along with pads and rotors on both sides. The control arms look tired, so I figured I'd replace them while I'm in there. I don't plan on dailying the car for longer than 3 months, so hopefully the new arms last that long. It looks like the Mevotechs are the same part numbers as the ones that ECS Tuning sells with their refresh kit, so we'll see how long they hold up. They come with a 5 year warranty, so worse case scenario is that they fail and I replace them again with higher quality parts.

656692 <-- Click to zoom in. These are the ones I ordered from RockAuto.

[JitteryJoe]

When pressing out the balljoints, I find it easier if I first cut off the rubber boots and wiped away the grease. Then I can get a better view of seating the press socket on the balljoint. BTW, I love the cardboard "safety shield" on the earler post :)

[BMWManiac]

I bought some Meyle HD ones from ECS for $200....which I thought was decent

[bluptgm3]

A pair for $120 or less, original? Show us...
for example for my 02/98 p/n is 31122228461 left side, 31122228462 right side.
One MTC Control Arm 31122228461 per piece discounted online price $150/piece x 2 = $300

I believe the MTC Forward Lower Control Arm have the geometry of the 1995M3 (and all non-M E36), not the geometry of the 1996+M3.

I believe the caster loss can be made up by using offset (1995M3) FLCABs.
Not sure if there is a camber loss or how to make it up.

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[ForcedFirebird]

It was a major major pain in the ass to get the passenger side outer ball joint out of the knuckle. I am going to cut off the threaded shaft and then try press out - picked up 24mm, 27mm and 32mm deep sockets.

I had to order some crowfoot wrenchs because that seems like the only way to torque the inner ball joint with that tiny area of clearance. Hopefully they work

Best $20 I ever spent

https://www.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-inch-forged-ball-joint-separator-99849.html

Used pickle forks for years, but if you want to re-use the ball joint, have to be very careful of the boot. The HF tool makes it a snap and saves the boots if the arm is going back in without new ball joints. Don't use an impact on it, I boogered up the threads first one doing that. Just get the tool tight on the ball joint threads and tap the knuckle with a hammer and they come out in about 15sec, takes longer to undo the nut hehe.

[Cos270]

So are the MTC ones good quality? I’m having buyers remorse after the Mevotech ones came in and am thinking about playing it safe and getting the MTCs.

[bluptgm3]

Ultimately you want a solid outer ball joint for “M” applications, so perhaps Lemforder for 1995M3 or E36 Meyle HD.


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[persiandude]

I went and checked the socket, it was a 27mm deep impact socket from HF. Got a threaded coupling thing from Ace for a few bucks. You may need something stronger but Sprayed my ball joints with quite a bit of penetrating oil which did penetrate the rust from what I saw so the balljoints

Pretty much followed this exact set up - let the ball joints sit with penetrating oil for a bit then press 3 of the 4 out with no issue - used a 2” galvanized coupling to allow the arm to sit flush and then on the last one I f*cked up and damaged the arm by pressing at an angle, it shifted While pressing - now I need to find a donor arm :/

Do Z3 Control Arms work with 96+ E36 M3??

656819

656820

[Cos270]

Well, I ended up chickening out on the Mevotech's from RockAuto. Figured I'd save myself the time and future headaches and just get decent parts. I ordered this kit from Bimmerworld instead:
https://www.bimmerworld.com/Front-Control-Arm-Bushing-Package-PF-E36-M3-96-99.html

Mevotech's are getting returned.

[golgo13]

I will be doing this soon for my '98 E36M and I found that the Lemforder parts are more expensive than the OEM BMW parts.

I mean, please correct me if I'm missing something here.

Curious why this might be the case.

https://www.autopartsway.com/search.cfm?allveh/allb/allct/allsct/search:w0133~1626314

$26.62

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-front-inner-ball-joint-e30-lemforder-31121126253l?

$18.22

[bluptgm3]

Well, I ended up chickening out on the Mevotech's from RockAuto. Figured I'd save myself the time and future headaches and just get decent parts. I ordered this kit from Bimmerworld instead:
https://www.bimmerworld.com/Front-Control-Arm-Bushing-Package-PF-E36-M3-96-99.html

Mevotech's are getting returned.

Note that the non-1996+M3 Forward Lower Control Arms (geometry) combined with 1995M3 Offset FLCA Bushings (geometry) may or may not fully replicate the 1996+M3 FLCAs with Centered FLCA Bushings.
Get an alignment and report back, it may well be close enough.


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[bluptgm3]

Do Z3 Control Arms work with 96+ E36 M3??

Yes the Z3 “M” FLCAs are the same as the 1996+M3 FLCAs.


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[Cos270]

Note that the non-1996+M3 Forward Lower Control Arms (geometry) combined with 1995M3 Offset FLCA Bushings (geometry) may or may not fully replicate the 1996+M3 FLCAs with Centered FLCA Bushings.
Get an alignment and report back, it may well be close enough.


Will do. One of the 7(!) prior owners replaced the LCA bushings with centered purple poly ones that appear to be in good shape, so I think it's safe to say that either these are probably the original control arms, or they were replaced with OEM 96+ M3 LCA's. Will keep everyone updated once the parts come in and I get them fitted.

[persiandude]

Is there a "standard" length (or approximate length) I can use for the new tie rods? Will an alignment shop dial in the lengths of the tie rods?

When I took the tie rods off I had to break them into parts - inner and out and then remove due to some issues etc... so I can't reference my old tie rods when adjusting the length of the new ones.

[bluptgm3]

I will be doing this soon for my '98 E36M and I found that the Lemforder parts are more expensive than the OEM BMW parts.

I mean, please correct me if I'm missing something here.

Curious why this might be the case.

https://www.autopartsway.com/search.cfm?allveh/allb/allct/allsct/search:w0133~1626314

$26.62

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-front-inner-ball-joint-e30-lemforder-31121126253l?

$18.22

Both appear to be Lemforder parts.


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[bluptgm3]

Linking to more current discussion

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2454932-96-Front-Control-Arm-Solutions