Short shifter recommendations, please?

[GAGsTer]

The step of the 5 speed stick on my 528 is too long for my tastes. Could someone advise on a good replacement? I read about UUC's shifter a lot, but what are the other alternatives?

TIA

[RevHigh]

B&M racing is a very good one.

[GAGsTer]

Damn, I just missed one on eBay a few days ago, it was cheap too.

[Brandon J]

You could always buy a new e36 M3/e36 328 shifter. It shortens the shift a good amount and is an original BMW part. It is a common upgrade for BMW owners. Look into http://www.understeer.com/shiftlever.shtml for installation info. I don't believe bending the selctor rod is needed. I didn't in my e34 or e39 (has an old UUC one)

http://www.bmwtips.com/tipsntricks/e36_short_shifter_images_files/shiftgc.gif

[Evan e21]

UUC is vey nice. Excellent build quality and can be height adjustable.

[Rahul325]

Originally posted by Brandon J
You could always buy a new e36 M3/e36 328 shifter. It shortens the shift a good amount and is an original BMW part. It is a common upgrade for BMW owners. Look into http://www.understeer.com/shiftlever.shtml for installation info. I don't believe bending the selctor rod is needed. I didn't in my e34 or e39 (has an old UUC one)


i am not sure if it will work on the 528, IIRC that cheap SSK work for E30's and E36's only.

[Rob Levinson]

Any of the factory-sourced shifter "conversions" will be too low for comfort when installed in a 5-series.

Keep in mind that any of the factory parts are just as "disposable" in terms of the rapid wear and degradation of the shifter lower pivot and shifter body, resulting in the exaggerated amount of slop that all BMWs exhibit past 10K miles. Putting a new BMW shifter in, regardless of what the original model it came from was, will result in short-term improvement only.

For more on this idea, please see:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_product/bmw_shifters/uucshifter.htm

And for comparisons with other brands:
http://www.shortshifter.com/comparo.htm

For the entire UUC Ultimate Short Shifter experience:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_product/bmw_shifters/shifter_nav.htm

[GAGsTer]

Thanks for all recommendations!
My 528 has 35 K miles, and the shifter over all feels fine, but I still think that it is 3-4 inches too tall, and since my elbow moves during the shift, I think its step is too long. IMHO, and it is not necessarily correct one, when I shift with my wrist only it is most comfortable.
Thanks again.

[Brandon J]

I am sorry Rob, but I am going to have to say that replying to this subject is just a free plug for yourself. I understand you are a supporting vendor, but you have to get real.

The BMW shift knobs are very good for street. He never mentioned anything about taking the car to the track or it being a dedicated track car. Precision is good, as well as durable components. The tranny mounts are a good example. However, with added durometer, or hardness with tranny mounts, the potential for vibrations to travel through is also increased. Weighted metal shift knobs are good for shifting, but they get cold in the winter and hot in the summer. Stock leather shift knobs do not get as cold in the winter and not as hot in the summer.

Now, for street, these are very good. Heck they are good for years to come. Don't forget what your first shortshifters were made from Rob.

And yes, the shift levers will work on other models too besides the e30 and e36. I put the e39 M5/e46 M3 shift lever in my e34 and it works perfectly. That lever maintains the 5er height. The 3-series ones are shorter, but not by much. If it was an issue, there wouldn't be any adjustable height in levers now would there. Comfort varies between people. Generalizing comfort height is just that, a generalization. Another thing, generalizing shifter use by miles is another claim I personally would not do. Tires or bearing wear is on thing, but generalizing shift component wear by mleage is another. Can you vouch for that claim to the general public with hard data?For those that live un rural areas? in urban areas? :bs:

One last thing. The original poster asked about other shifters besides UUC. Don't self-disclaim UUC, I won't talk about the exhausts (b/c he never asked).:nono


So...
Other options to look into, besides UUC, are:

-BMW shift levers
-Rogue: http://www.rogueengineering.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?


Sorry guys, but if we want to ask a vendor about something I am sure we will clearly ask. One of the main reasons for a message board is to get real world data and testimonies from other consumers and enthusiasts like ourselves.

[Rob Levinson]

Brandon:

I have no idea what that rant about the different parts was all about - the replacements and upgrades exist for very specific reasons. Better is better - that is why you drive a BMW instead of a Kia.

I've been doing this for several years now. With all of our shifter testing and experience, I know what wears out faster or not. There is no discussion on this point, it is proven fact. If you want just a taste of what junk the OE components become after a short period of use (regardless of use on track, city, jungle, or the Sahara desert), see this pic:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/images/shifter/plastic_comparo.jpg

As a 5-series enthusiast, I would not want to see yet another person make a mistake with a too-short shifter. GAGster was asking about our product, and it is my duty to help out. I would be writing the exact same thing if I had no connection with UUC - please do not insult me by saying that economic desires are greater than my enthusiast desires - I'm here first and foremost because this is my passion. Do yourself a favor and review my post history here on the 5-series forum. Wanna bet that 85% or more has nothing to do with UUC?

Yes, ours are height-adjustable - but even the shortest setting on the 5-series units is still higher than the highest setting on the 3-series units.

Yes, our early shifters years ago were remanufactured BMW units - and the experience with wear in the bushings is exactly why we stopped using them. How much more obvious could it be?

The other "options" you list are second-tier choices - plastic components, wearing out quickly just like the pic link I posted above. If you wanted to list actual quality alternatives, you would say Autosolutions and the variations sold through BMP and Bavaraian Motorsport.

And the purpose of a mesage board is indeed to share data with enthusiasts like ourselves. I was doing this for a long time before it was a business and the day I stop being an enthusiast about it is the day UUC is up for sale. Don't push me on this - I live and breathe these cars and give advice for one reason only - I was tired of getting incorrect information from other people and suffering with misleading advertising. UUC is run with the perspective of the consumer, providing the kind of components I wish I had available to me when I was in you shoes. They did not exist, so I had to start making them for myself.

[Brandon J]

Rob,

Now I still don't completely believe you when you say you are speaking as an enthusiast. All your links are to your site. You did not link to any other sites or references. Now if you linked to European magazine and said look for yourself, that would be different. Do youself and others a favor and find third party information. That is clearly what I am eluding to. As is obvious, anyone can make calims on the internet....including you. So finding a THIRD/OBJECTIVE party evaluation would be smart business.

Why do you feel threatened? I know your history as well as many others around. "Don't push you" you say. What, cannot act in a professional matter when someone questions your products? As smart consumers we should question.

Why don't you stop plugging-in your company and STOP linking to YOUR website for YOUR personal claims. That would be smart as an enthusiast. As an enthusiast, I thought you would understand that.

Now if you really want to get into quality issues, why don't you talk about how crappy your exhausts are. Why don't you tell the public how you send replacements for free because they are sub-par. As an enthusiast, I feel other enthusiasts should know.

As for the other options, I also mentioned Rogue. Why don't you tell everyone where that guy came from huh?
:alright

[Rob Levinson]

Brandon, I don't feel threatened. Now I feel insulted.

And if you want to know where that "other guy" came from, I can direct you to the Middlesex County Courthouse docket, the charges against other parties, the police reports, and a caseful of evidence. Now, do you really want to bring up that ugly stuff in public? I have tried to be nice about that. But I think you should call me for the information you need so you don't keep pepetuating misconceptions. Let me know when you've got the desire to learn the truth. You can call me at 908-874-9092. My bet is that you won't call. Let's see if you do.

- Rob
writing as an enthusiast, always.

[Brandon J]

BIG COP OUT!!! :cop:

Hehe, you must be joking. Why can't you talk in public? What are you afraid of. Are you trying to get this out of the public eye?

This topic isn't of personal, but of public interest. If you are making claims to the public, BASH other brands and refer information ONLY on your website, then how is it just my concern. The web is open to the public. I want to inform others how biased your information is.

YOU made it personal when you said "Don't push me." I was speaking to you as you represent UUC. You always have links to information on YOUR websites. You still have not addressed those issues. To me, you are a vendor.

Plus, you as a vendor and me as a consumer, you are treating the consumer very poorly. I challenged your claims and your intent as a vendor. As a vendor, you poorly read the thread. LOOK CAREFULLY. Again, GAGsTer, asked for OTHER shifters besides UUC.

Other companies let their products and customers do the talking. Why must you get in everyones face about yours. As a big company, you understand that people everywhere will critique your business and its products. UUC as a vendor seems unprofessional.

[Rob Levinson]

Originally posted by Brandon J
BIG COP OUT!!! :cop:

Why did I know you wouldn't call?

Why are people afraid of the answers they think they already know?



Originally posted by Brandon J
Hehe, you must be joking. Why can't you talk in public? What are you afraid of. Are you trying to get this out of the public eye?

You are missing the point - it's not what I am afraid of. It's what I am too much of a gentleman to say about other companies and people. It has no place in the public for the most part, although the situation would make more than a few people think twice. When I choose to compete, I will do it one way: by excelling at what I do.


Originally posted by Brandon J
This topic isn't of personal, but of public interest. If you are making claims to the public, BASH other brands and refer information ONLY on your website, then how is it just my concern. The web is open to the public. I want to inform others how biased your information is.

You're mixing two things, I think. The information that is not product based has little concern to these technical discussions.

The other info is not biased -when it is a valid technical exposition, there is no such thing as bias. There is relevance, which can be (and often is) abused, but I try (and I feel succeed) in presenting the important and meaningful technical details and differences.

As to why it is on the website instead of posting it? Why would I waste bandwidth re-posting info that my website already hosts? I could take up 17 pages here on the message board, or give you a one-line link to follow.


Originally posted by Brandon J
YOU made it personal when you said "Don't push me." I was speaking to you as you represent UUC. You always have links to information on YOUR websites. You still have not addressed those issues. To me, you are a vendor.

I feel you made it personal when you questioned my motives. I may be "just a vendor" to you, but you are not "just a customer" to me. I have more respect for you as a person than to see you only with dollar signs in my eyes. I would appreciate if you (and everyone else) would return the favor.

The point you missed, which I will repeat, is that you can do a post analysis on the 5-series board here and see that most of my posts have absolutely nothing to do with UUC or our products. Don't "cop out" and let that slip by. Does it make me a vendor when I give the definitive and extensive answer on the confusing issue of wheel offsets and tire sizes? Control arm issues? Technical specs and engine/tranny swap possibilities? Tire brand experience? Brake pad experience? All those things that are the bulk of what I post about have nothing to do with the products we manufacture and sell. Do the math - am I a vendor or an enthusiast?

I've got news for you - I spend about 10% of my day talking people out of putting certain UUC products on their cars, knowing that for their intended use, it's not the right item. Where is my heart when I take money out of my own pocket that way?


Originally posted by Brandon J
Plus, you as a vendor and me as a consumer, you are treating the consumer very poorly. I challenged your claims and your intent as a vendor. As a vendor, you poorly read the thread. LOOK CAREFULLY. Again, GAGsTer, asked for OTHER shifters besides UUC.

Yes, he was asking for opinions on them. That's what I answered about in response to a suggestion to use a factory shifter. Were you going to tell him that? Should I have waited?


Originally posted by Brandon J
Other companies let their products and customers do the talking. Why must you get in everyones face about yours. As a big company, you understand that people everywhere will critique your business and its products. UUC as a vendor seems unprofessional.

Let it seem what it will. I'm an enthusiast and enjoy interacting with other enthusiasts. If that's too "in your face" then I'm sorry, I'll focus on grinding money out of customers with false advertising and cheaply-made product. That I spend time helping people as I can is something I like to do, and perhaps helps in the tiniest way to stop the continual flood of the same questions over and over.

This thread has gone way off-topic and I will not reply to this sort of commentary any further here.

Brandon, if you have legitimate interest in pursuing this, you will do the mature thing and accept my offer of a constructive phone conversation. Without a phone call, I can only assume you are looking to stir up trouble.

Talk to you tomorrow!

- Rob

[Brandon J]

You are missing the point - it's not what I am afraid of. It's what I am too much of a gentleman to say about other companies and people. It has no place in the public for the most part, although the situation would make more than a few people think twice. When I choose to compete, I will do it one way: by excelling at what I do.
So that is why you mention other comapnies in YOUR comparisons and not just leave it to basic shift lever designs.


You're mixing two things, I think. The information that is not product based has little concern to these technical discussions.

The other info is not biased -when it is a valid technical exposition, there is no such thing as bias. There is relevance, which can be (and often is) abused, but I try (and I feel succeed) in presenting the important and meaningful technical details and differences.
The newspaper and evening news are medias for technical information. What information is revealed or said can determine biases. Nobody can tell another person everything in their head. The lack of other information and the information chosen to give yields biases.


As to why it is on the website instead of posting it? Why would I waste bandwidth re-posting info that my website already hosts? I could take up 17 pages here on the message board, or give you a one-line link to follow.
Again, you have not given us any objective/third party info or links. Find us other relevent literature other than yours. Don't post 17 pgs of information from your own website. Instead show us validation from outside sources.


I may be "just a vendor" to you, but you are not "just a customer" to me. I have more respect for you as a person than to see you only with dollar signs in my eyes. I would appreciate if you (and everyone else) would return the favor.
I agree. That is why out of all people I thought you would understand someone questioning techinical information, even if it comes from reputable sources.


The point you missed, which I will repeat, is that you can do a post analysis on the 5-series board here and see that most of my posts have absolutely nothing to do with UUC or our products. Don't "cop out" and let that slip by. Does it make me a vendor when I give the definitive and extensive answer on the confusing issue of wheel offsets and tire sizes? Control arm issues? Technical specs and engine/tranny swap possibilities? Tire brand experience? Brake pad experience? All those things that are the bulk of what I post about have nothing to do with the products we manufacture and sell. Do the math - am I a vendor or an enthusiast?
Again, YOU missed the point. In this thread you kept on posting links to YOUR websites. Now what does this make you. Do the math


I've got news for you - I spend about 10% of my day talking people out of putting certain UUC products on their cars, knowing that for their intended use, it's not the right item. Where is my heart when I take money out of my own pocket that way?
That's great. I took money out of my own pocket to organize and hold the e34 gathering. I actually have done so the last 3 years. I have personally helped more than a dozen other BMWs in my local area over the summer without asking for a dime. From brakes to control arms to engine work, I also help others. If your heart is in the right place, then take this thread into consideration about how, as a person of the BMW community, I feel you took advantage of the topic.


Yes, he was asking for opinions on them. That's what I answered about in response to a suggestion to use a factory shifter. Were you going to tell him that? Should I have waited?

Would you have waited if he chose not to change the original BMW lever. You take this kind of thing seriously and that is good. But a shifter that isn't as precise isn't going to make the engine detonate. Plus, you could have only mentioned experience about the BMW shiftlever and not plug-in your site.


Let it seem what it will. I'm an enthusiast and enjoy interacting with other enthusiasts. If that's too "in your face" then I'm sorry, I'll focus on grinding money out of customers with false advertising and cheaply-made product. That I spend time helping people as I can is something I like to do, and perhaps helps in the tiniest way to stop the continual flood of the same questions over and over.
Glad you are sorry. It takes a mature person to say that. Helping people is good. You don't have to plug-in your site though.


This thread has gone way off-topic and I will not reply to this sort of commentary any further here.

Brandon, if you have legitimate interest in pursuing this, you will do the mature thing and accept my offer of a constructive phone conversation. Without a phone call, I can only assume you are looking to stir up trouble.

Talk to you tomorrow!

- Rob [/B]
It looks like you are trying to protect yourself from negative publicity. Who wouldn't anyone want to do that? I can only assume that.

I am a skeptic as most people here. That skepticism drives people to choose, buy, make, build, fix, develop with higher quality standards.

I am not a person hiding behind a computer. I have also been posting to numerous boards. I also give valuable technical information. Just look at the e34 meet I organized. Why don't you come to the next e34 meet I will organize. It will be in the summer. Then you can tell me as well as other owners what you want to say.

I am glad you did take off that big advertisement in your sig.

[JaredTown]

OK, now that this subject has kind of gotten off track, I have a "real" question pertaining to this subject. I had a '98 540i 6-speed that I sold three months ago. I just picked up an '02 540i 6-speed last weekend and am looking for a short shift kit. I had the UUC put on the last one, but did notice some gear whine coming thru to the cabin, as well as feeling VERY precise. I have done some reading and found the the Rogue unit has a weighted selector rod, and some noise dampening properties that the UUC does not have. Does anyone have any experience with these two units? Rob do you have any experience with the Rogue unit?

[Rob Levinson]

Originally posted by JaredTown
OK, now that this subject has kind of gotten off track, I have a "real" question pertaining to this subject. I had a '98 540i 6-speed that I sold three months ago. I just picked up an '02 540i 6-speed last weekend and am looking for a short shift kit. I had the UUC put on the last one, but did notice some gear whine coming thru to the cabin, as well as feeling VERY precise. I have done some reading and found the the Rogue unit has a weighted selector rod, and some noise dampening properties that the UUC does not have. Does anyone have any experience with these two units? Rob do you have any experience with the Rogue unit?

You had our EVO2 shifter, I can safely assume. In some of the V8 applications, certain frequencies could come through.

What I can tell you is that you will not experience any of that with EVO3... EVO3 has a thoroughly revised acoustic isolation inner component that has been effectively tuned and tested with all possible engine combinations. Should be as quiet as stock.

As far as the other brand, I ask you to do an appropriate comparison, specifically with the technical data we have on the website about shifters with plastic bushing components. Remember how your original BMW shifter was sloppy and mushy? That's due to 1) the plastic bushings wearing out, and 2) the molded-in rubber center section. The point being that any aftermarket shifter incorporating that same design, regardless of whatever "special" plastic, will shortly exhibit the same wear characteristics. See this comparison pic (http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/images/shifter/plastic_comparo.jpg) of a low-mileage plastic-component shifter.

There are threads going on right now on a few of the message boards about these replacement selector rods coming apart. I have personally had half a dozen customers who got this part have it happen to them. I strongly advise not using it whatsoever for safety reasons, as well as the frequent consensus that the resulting feel is often undesireable.

- Rob

[GAGsTer]

Um-m-m, I didn't mean for this thread to go into bickering, sorry.
So, to sum up, I have the following choices:
-B&M;
-Rogue;
-UUC. (in alphabetical order)

It looks like e39 cannot be fitted with other stock sticks.

Thanks everyone.

[Brandon J]

Other stock shiftlevers can be fitted. Many e39 540i owners use the e39 M5 shift lever.

[Dark Helmet]

ok guys, I know I'm a little late to this party... but lets get along here.

Rob's been round and round this bush a million times...

I don't know how many miles are on the UUC in my E28, but the car has 145K+ and with the sole exception of the second-gear synchro being fried, it short, tight, PRECISE, and imprevious to my abuse (can't say that for pitman arm... or what's left of it!).

you don't have to agree with him, but you do owe it to yourself to weigh his opinions and information vs. your own and make your own decision. every time I see this it makes me ill. support the hobby as a whole and we all win... don't play favorites and undermine a good thing.

oh, and rob: I used to be as enthusiastic as you... then I turned 21! :D:D remember to keep a level head.

[Rob Levinson]

Originally posted by dasMafia
oh, and rob: I used to be as enthusiastic as you... then I turned 21! :D:D remember to keep a level head.

Heh!

The trick in my position is to not lose my enthusiasm... that's when things get boring and we stop figuring out newer and better methods to improve our BMWs. Whenever that starts to happen, I just remember that I am fortunate to be doing what I do. :)

- Rob

[Brandon J]

Another plug. Could the moderator please move the above comment to the Vendor/Dealer Comments & Supporting Vendor Announcements board.

I am actually serious.

I respect Rob. I just don't respect his busines ethics of plugging-in his products (especially if it wasn't asked for). People who sell parts should post on the for sale board. Vendors who want to plug their products (or make announcements) should post in the Vendor board.

Now back to shift levers. For the DIY person who just wants to get rid of a long throw and not concerned about anything more than a stock feel should try other BMW shift levers. This could be beneficial for several reasons. 1) if you have a leased car, you could leave it in there and no one will know the difference because it is a BMW part, so you don't have to change it later 2)For warranty issues. If something ever happens to your tranny and you bring it into the dealer, they might deny coverage. I had this happen when my e39 540i had an issue with a bushing in the shift linkage causing 3rd gear to pop out. Before the SI bulletin was issued, BMW replaced trannies. At least that is what they did with mine. I had an M5 shift lever in mine and the dealership changed my tranny w/o any questions. I am sure there would be questions if there was an aftrmarket shiftlever. Many of us know how dealerships feel about aftrmarket products. They may deny warranty even if the law (look at SEMA's website for reference) protects the consumer. However, I had zero difficulties with the dealership on this matter with my BMW shift lever.

For others who have the drilled CDV, it is the same principle. One could easily just remove the CDV and not have to replace it with a drilled unit. The fact that it appears stock to dealers is what many of us want just in case a day comes where the factory or extended warranties have to cover tranny problems.

As far as shifting...I heard great results using the Rogue weighted shift rod (WSR). It comes from testimonies of other people of how the shifting feels (now this may also include using UUC shift levers).

Just some things to consider for ya'll.

[Rob Levinson]

Originally posted by Brandon J
Another plug. Could the moderator please move the above comment to the Vendor/Dealer Comments & Supporting Vendor Announcements board.

I am actually serious.

I respect Rob. I just don't respect his busines ethics of plugging-in his products (especially if it wasn't asked for). People who sell parts should post on the for sale board. Vendors who want to plug their products (or make announcements) should post in the Vendor board.

Brandon, just for you, I edited the post. Heaven forbid in the succession of discussing what happens with E28s as they age I comment that I am happy that we are still supporting them - through my personal passion with the older cars.

And I still feel insulted at this "vendor aspect" you throw at anything I do. I am actually serious.


Originally posted by Brandon J
Now back to shift levers. For the DIY person who just wants to get rid of a long throw and not concerned about anything more than a stock feel should try other BMW shift levers. This could be beneficial for several reasons. 1) if you have a leased car, you could leave it in there and no one will know the difference because it is a BMW part, so you don't have to change it later 2)For warranty issues. If something ever happens to your tranny and you bring it into the dealer, they might deny coverage. I had this happen when my e39 540i had an issue with a bushing in the shift linkage causing 3rd gear to pop out. Before the SI bulletin was issued, BMW replaced trannies. At least that is what they did with mine. I had an M5 shift lever in mine and the dealership changed my tranny w/o any questions. I am sure there would be questions if there was an aftrmarket shiftlever. Many of us know how dealerships feel about aftrmarket products. They may deny warranty even if the law (look at SEMA's website for reference) protects the consumer. However, I had zero difficulties with the dealership on this matter with my BMW shift lever.

You may have had no difficulties, but a dealer who feels like busting balls will do so if even you have an alternate BMW lever.

About busting balls - dealership support or denial of warranty is only in part to what may be modified on the car. For everyone's reference, a good part of it (unfair as this may sound) has to do with your relationship with the service writer. Punks who come in and demand service tend to find they don't have as much "luck" as those who work with their service writer and treat him with the courtesy and respect that we all expect. I get these stories every day from the various BMW dealers we speak with... BMW dealers who are UUC dealers and see no warranty concerns with the product.

The point being that a service writer a customer has p*ssed off (again, as unfair as this sounds, this is how the world works) can deny a warranty claim for any reason he feels like. He can claim "customer abuse" based on how he guesses you drive. No aftermarket parts required, he can flag your driving habits as the cause of the problem.


Originally posted by Brandon J
For others who have the drilled CDV, it is the same principle. One could easily just remove the CDV and not have to replace it with a drilled unit. The fact that it appears stock to dealers is what many of us want just in case a day comes where the factory or extended warranties have to cover tranny problems.

That sort of thing amuses me. I understand customer concerns about that sort of thing, but see above - a dealer who denies warranty service due to that is looking to bust balls. Most lexicons define undue concern as paranoia. I'm not saying that word applies here, but darn close.

On a technical note, the modification or removal of the CDV can, in no way, cause a tranny problem. All it is doing is slightly slowing the clutch engagement rate. Even funnier, the same transmissions that are equipped with the CDV in some models ('96-'99 M3) are not equipped with it, even when coupled with the exact same motor (equivalent-year M Coupe/Roadster). If it won't create tranny failure in a factory installation within the exact same power combination, how could it in the another?

(It's okay if I post about CDVs, Brandon? I don't make any money off the free tech tip that I supply nor the public knowledge about the effects that I disseminate.)


Originally posted by Brandon J
As far as shifting...I heard great results using the Rogue weighted shift rod (WSR). It comes from testimonies of other people of how the shifting feels (now this may also include using UUC shift levers).

Just some things to consider for ya'll.

Some more things to consider with quite a bit of experienced customers and dealers weighing in:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126635

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=153737

See you at the summer E34 meet, since I can't get a phone call.

- Rob

[AutoCouture]

arite guys,


I'm not a modorator, but this back and forth bickering is just rediculous.


JUST FOR THE RECORD- I AM NOT TAKING SIDES PEOPLE!!


Brandon J -

Think of it this way: if you were Rob, well not even. Lets say you own a company that makes performance parts right. Wouldnt you try to sell your products? Hell, if your products were quality like UUC, theres no doubt you wouldnt!!! Its like going to a DINAN retailer and asking them what chip is better..theirs or Jim Conforti. What you think they are going to say?

Even if Rob does "plug-in" his website.....wtf is the big deal? Why get so mad? Who cares dude? Thats like PEOPLE TYPING IN CAPS, yeah its kinda annoying, but not to the point to base your entire arguement over.



Rob Levinson-

3rd party info would be super. I have no doubt that your shifters are kickass, but if you really think they are better than the others, post a REAL comparo b/w all the competition and yours on your website.

You gotta see where Brandon is coming from- he's the kind of guy that wants to SEE the info, not just have a biased (i say biased bc as a retailer you def. have to have somewhat of a biased attitude towards others' products) but somewhat of a public view of it. He wants to see reviews.

Btw, i wouldnt expect a phone call either


come on now :nono ..........get along people!

I look forward to seeing BOTH of you at this summer meet!



good night,


sal

[Rob Levinson]

Originally posted by Acbimmer
Rob Levinson-

3rd party info would be super. I have no doubt that your shifters are kickass, but if you really think they are better than the others, post a REAL comparo b/w all the competition and yours on your website.

You gotta see where Brandon is coming from- he's the kind of guy that wants to SEE the info, not just have a biased (i say biased bc as a retailer you def. have to have somewhat of a biased attitude towards others' products) but somewhat of a public view of it. He wants to see reviews.

See. that's a quandary, isn't it? If it's on my website, guys like Brandon will not believe it is legitimate... despite the fact that every technical comparison is easily provable, has been proven, and continues to be supported by reviews in various form of media.

However, that's what the two links in my last post were all about... disinterested 3rd-party commentary on the components referenced.


Originally posted by Acbimmer
Btw, i wouldnt expect a phone call either

Why not? Have we all become eight year olds that would rather "neener-neener" than discuss something like mature adults? Note that in these kind of back-and-forths, the salient points are overlooked in favor of irrelevant and distracting counter-accusatons.

Frankly, that really is something bad about the internet in general - it lets everyone be a "keyboard sociopath" without regard to their actions and no accountability... even to the point of having a reasonable phone conversation like two adults. What is the fear, that someone could reach through the phone cord and strangle the caller? Sheesh! :D

Sorry for the OT, this has gotten out of hand. I am unsubscribing from this thread to eliminate the temptation of another reply.

- Rob

[Brandon J]

See you at the summer E34 meet, since I can't get a phone call.
Great, I'll call you when the date and location are finalized.

And thanks for deleting your plug.

One last thanks for linking to another source, besides your own site, for reference.

Other members follow general rules about posting parts for sale, even if they feel excited.


(It's okay if I post about CDVs, Brandon? I don't make any money off the free tech tip that I supply nor the public knowledge about the effects that I disseminate.)
hehe, neither do I [and most BMW enthusiasts] That is what makes our community great.

You described how dealerships are accurately. Many people just don't want to deal with jumping through hoops if the dealership (or extended aftermarket warranty) ever denies a claim. A dealership can do anything they want. People just don't want to give them a reason to deny the claims.

I have a great relationship with a couple of BMW techs that look at my car. I even went to the same automotive tech school as they did, UTI. The norm (practice) should be to get approval for warranty claims. Small claims are usually done without the approval (or don't need them). When those claims are big, such as a tranny, then the dealership looks over the car much more closely and the dealership (as well as BMW) is much more willing to deny a claim because of the expense. So, I can still get a large claim denied because it is overlooked by someone higher.

The question about the CDV is not wether it causes damage or not. The question is if it looks stock or not. If it looks stock, then most techs (and BMW personel) who look at it will not question it. Some BMWs came with it and some not. (All ///Ms did not) The main concern for the dealership is if (everyting that is suppose to be there is there and if) it looks stock and not tampered with. Atermarket shift levers do not look stock.

The funny thing is that there are numerous dealerships out there that are Dinan dealers. These dealerships install the Dinan products to the factory warranted cars themselves. Yet, these same dealerships still deny warranty claims because of those Dinan parts, even if those parts did not cause something to break. It happens. It just sucks.

This information is for others to [re]consider when putting anything aftermarket, including shift levers.

I have absolutely no affiliation with the other shift lever company. I am just an enthusiast. I don't have any products of that brand in my cars. I know about some brands' quality so that is why I did not mention them. (hehe, can it get any more vague)


You gotta see where Brandon is coming from- he's the kind of guy that wants to SEE the info, not just have a biased (i say biased bc as a retailer you def. have to have somewhat of a biased attitude towards others' products) but somewhat of a public view of it. He wants to see reviews.

Thanks Acbimmer for repeating my intentions.

In the professional field, research has guidelines (and standards)to follow. The main intent to documenting everything is to verify the findings. If research is done, others can replicate the study to verify it's claims. That is called external validity.

Just because a company claims horespower for a chip doesn't mean we believe them. We look to dyno our cars with the chips and software (just like the companies do) to verify the HP claims.

[RevHigh]

The WSR is not a good mod imo. It adds weight on the bottom of the shifting mechanism. Thus creating greater effort to select gears. Your forearm gets a really good work out.

I have a UUC Evo2 kit and enjoy it. The heavy RK3 knob, the ADJUSTABLE height shift lever and a quick easy install have served their purpose well. The UUC kit is very good w/o gimmickey (sp?) rod levers.

I've heard excellent reviews as well on the B&M shifter (more expensive).

To complicate matters, there is also an autosolutions.net SSK for the E39.

Remove the CDV from your tranny and install the short shifter of your choice. UUC being the most common while being an excellent product and offering a great value.

Good luck!

[MaloventEvil]

I have a UUC Evo2 kit and enjoy it.

Brandon, looks like Rob got his plug after all because you know what, you cant argue with a great product.

-Aurash
:redspot

[Brandon J]

Well, it is not a plug-in if someone else gave it. Other people's comments are whats important.

Hey, I even have a UUC shift lever in my e39. I also have a BMW e39 M5/e46M3 shifter in my e34 without any problems. imo it is not sloppy at all and for the price it is a great product.

[DZeckhausen]

Originally posted by RevHigh
The WSR is not a good mod imo. It adds weight on the bottom of the shifting mechanism. Thus creating greater effort to select gears. Your forearm gets a really good work out. What the heck are you basing that comment on? On the E39 platform, the WSR produces the same effect as Rob's nice heavy shift knob. It adds smoothness to the shifter and it does NOT make it harder to shift gears. It does just the opposite.

You were even there as an invited guest at the Rogue WSR clinic (installing your CAI kits) and had a chance to listen to the feedback from all the happy 5-Series owners. Not one of them ever mentioned anything about increased shifting effort.
I have a UUC Evo2 kit and enjoy it. The heavy RK3 knob, the ADJUSTABLE height shift lever and a quick easy install have served their purpose well. The UUC kit is very good w/o gimmickey (sp?) rod levers. Why is it a gimmick for Rogue to add weight below the shifter, yet it's not a gimmick for UUC to add weight at the top of it? The effect on shift feel is the same in both cases.

Don't make stuff up about a product just because you have an agenda or because you have a relationship with another vendor. I know Rob and he wouldn't want that sort of publicity.

If you want something to critize about the WSR, then how about this: There was an issue with the wrong Loctite being used on the early WSRs and Rob correctly pointed out that some of them came apart. It happened to me too and it would have been a real pain had I been far from home. But Rogue changed the Loctite formula and fixed the problem. It's no longer an issue.

To be fair, you would then need to mention the noise problems in the early UUC shifters. Rob went to great lengths to correct the issue by sending out hush kits and revised the isolation design. Problem solved. Both vendors had issues and both addressed them like professionals.
Remove the CDV from your tranny and install the short shifter of your choice. UUC being the most common while being an excellent product and offering a great value. We agree here on both counts. The CDV must go and the UUC shifter is a fine product. Either the Rogue or the UUC will feel much better than stock. (I've had both in my car.)

At the risk of pissing off BOTH short shift vendors, the use of a factory BMW shifter replacement (e.g. swapping a 540i shift lever with an M5 lever) is less expensive and is better than doing nothing at all. The stock shifter throw on most BMW models is very much in need of shortening and there is more than one approach for improvement. Personally, I would go with one of the SSK vendors.

[Rob Levinson]

Disclaimer: I have great respect for, and personally like, Dave Z.

But I'm a detail freak...


Originally posted by DZeckhausen
... the WSR produces the same effect as Rob's nice heavy shift knob.
...
Why is it a gimmick for Rogue to add weight below the shifter, yet it's not a gimmick for UUC to add weight at the top of it? The effect on shift feel is the same in both cases.


But technically the use of a heavy knob is completely optional. WSR is mandatory for the Octane to sit in the correct position.

And, more technically, it's not the same effect. The physics of the mass' distance from the pivot is a significant factor.


Originally posted by DZeckhausen
If you want something to critize about the WSR, then how about this: There was an issue with the wrong Loctite being used on the early WSRs and Rob correctly pointed out that some of them came apart. It happened to me too and it would have been a real pain had I been far from home. But Rogue changed the Loctite formula and fixed the problem. It's no longer an issue.

Tell that to the customer who called me last week. He was stuck on the side of the road.


Originally posted by DZeckhausen
At the risk of pissing off BOTH short shift vendors, the use of a factory BMW shifter replacement (e.g. swapping a 540i shift lever with an M5 lever) is less expensive and is better than doing nothing at all. The stock shifter throw on most BMW models is very much in need of shortening and there is more than one approach for improvement. Personally, I would go with one of the SSK vendors.

Better than nothing, definitely... but what some people miss entirely is the longevity of the component. Primary shifter complaint for most people with a BMW over 10K miles is the sloppy feel, and then the long throw. Replacing a sloppy and worn shifter with a fresh unit makes it crisper... until the next 10K miles roll by and you're back where you started. For the regular guy paying a shop 2 hours' labor for installation, the shifter should not be considered a "consumable" with annual replacement.

Note that the best-feeling transmissions in the world (Acura NSX, Mazda Miata) do not have external linkage/shifter assemblies. The shifter itself goes right into the transmission at the top, has a beefier pivot mechanism, and is kept constantly lubricated. With the external BMW linkage, the mechanism's plastic bushings are exposed to dirt and wear quickly. Plastic is a cheap material, and very frustrating to find in a BMW. Getting rid of the plastic is the reason why the only other shifter I would recommend as a legitimate comparison to UUC is the only other shifter that gets rid of plastic bushings... Autosolutions. (Do I get credit for an anti-plug? :D )

- Rob

[DZeckhausen]

Originally posted by Rob Levinson
Disclaimer: I have great respect for, and personally like, Dave Z.And I for Rob. Group hug! ;)


And, more technically, it's not the same effect. The physics of the mass' distance from the pivot is a significant factor. True. I didn't mean to imply that X grams of weight distributed along the selector rod would have the exact same effect on the feel as the same amount of weight on the shift knob. Anyone designing a solution that uses one or the other approach will need to take the mass CG to pivot distance into account when deciding how heavy to make a knob or a selector rod. My point was that the addition of a weighted selector rod improves the feel and ease of shifting, rather than making it harder, as RevHigh claimed. I was reponding to what I felt was a deliberate misrepresentation.
:nono

[sl0moti0n]

Holy Shit! I thought there would be some info on other SS when I opened this, whats all the bitchin about! I aplaud Rob for plugging into this thread w/ his product it's his freakin job.


Oh, btw, I have the Evo3 and it's the shiznizzle my nizzle.:)