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dan22644
10-06-2010, 12:40 PM
I wanted to start a new thread because the last one was just about getting some replacement fuel injectors, and now it has turned into a lot more. Here is the old thread for reference:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1467117

To update, I am still getting the following codes when the engine is above about 3200 to 3500 rpm for more than a second or two:

P1341 Multiple Cylinder Misfire With Fuel Cut-off
P1343 Misfire Cylinder 1 With Fuel Cut-off
P1353 Misfire Cylinder 6 With Fuel Cut-off
P1355 Misfire Cylinder 7 With Fuel Cut-off
P1365 Misfire Cylinder 12 With Fuel Cut-off


Since my last update, I took the intakes off and re-sealed to try and find a possible vacuum leak and to also reseat and check all connection and vacuum lines. Everything came out really nice, but the codes remained. I have also replaced the caps and rotors.

At this point I didn’t know what to do, so I took it to BMW and asked for a diagnostic. I authorized 1 hour of labor for their work. Three days later they called me and said that they performed a vacuum leak test and didn’t find anything, and checked the computer and all sensor data and didn’t see anything out of the ordinary. They were able to re-create the codes on demand, but were not able to identify a reason why.

They wanted me to authorize another hour of labor to do a more in-depth look at the ignition system. I agreed if they would also test my cats (and a couple other small unrelated issues). The test showed that my plug wires were good, my coils were good, fuel pressure was correct, and that my pre-cat backpressure was on 0.5 PSI which is perfect.

They had the car a total of 2 weeks and even brought in their technician trainer to look at it. His best guess was to replace the rubber boots on the intake manifolds (part number 8 and 9 below).

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=GJ03&mospid=48546&btnr=11_1515&hg=11&fg=40

Because they couldn’t tell me exactly what was wrong, they did not charge me for their work! They even told me to bring the car back if this didn’t solve the problem, and if it did to let them know that it worked.

Since then, I was able to locate the rubber boots for $100 each with a discount coupon, so I dropped $400 and tried to gear myself up to do this job again.

I took a day off of work and tore the thing apart. When removing the rubber boots from the cylinder head, I was surprised to see that there was no sealant used. The little rubber ridge didn’t look like very good on the end cylinders, so I thought I may be on to something. I used Hylomar to seal between the boot and the head, and the boot to the manifold runner. Reassemble everything and test drive, same misfire codes :(


To date, parts that have been replaced:

new OSVs
new OSV rubber grommets
new throttle body gaskets
new valve cover gaskets
new intake rubber boots sealed with Hylomar
new plugs
new caps and rotors
new camshaft position sensor
new pre-cat O2 sensors
new fuel filter
cleaned the MAFs
cleaned and tested the crank position sensor
cleaned and flow tested fuel injectors

One of the problems that BMW pointed out to me while I had it was that my Secondary Air pump hoses were all shot, one was actually worn through. I had planned on replacing them, but I had an idea last night. On startup the engine is a little noisy because the exhaust can be heard through the secondary air system hoses. If I had a valve stuck open on in the secondary air system (part 1)

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=GJ03&mospid=48546&btnr=11_1496&hg=11&fg=50

then I would have an air leak into the exhaust. Maybe that could cause the O2 sensor to get far enough out of range that I get a misfire??? To test this theory, I removed the hoses 20 and 21

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=GJ03&mospid=48546&btnr=11_1495&hg=11&fg=50

and plugged the valves with silicon plugs and taped them in place. When I started the engine it was perfectly quiet, but I still got the code above 3500rpm :(

I am really running out of ideas. I think my next test will be to swap some plug wires and see if the codes move to other cylinders. I need to replace them anyway since I’m over 100,000 but I would like to KNOW what the problem is before spending anymore money.

darkstarmedia
10-06-2010, 12:49 PM
the so called "rubber boots" are actually the intake gaskets....

And did you end up buying the special tool for the intake gaskets? I ended up getting some magnets and sticking them in the socket but I am thinking of getting the tool to make things easier in the future...

Richard

EDT: you might want to ask the dealer to consult BMWNA about it....

dan22644
10-06-2010, 01:05 PM
They didn't call them gaskets, and I think its just how you lookk at it. They are actually rubber coated aluminum and steel, pretty nice parts.

Nope, no special tool. I just use 3 1/4" ratchet extensions. When I'm installing the nuts, I put a dab of Lucas grease on the end of the socket and it holds the nut in place until I can get it started ;)

darkstarmedia
10-06-2010, 01:18 PM
I believe the parts manual calls them "Gasket-Flange" and seeing as how they are for the intake.... I maintain that the correct term should be "Intake Gasket-Flange" or simply shortened to "Intake gasket" :stickoutt:stickoutt:D

Do I hear a second?:buttrock

Anyhoo... please keep us updated I am intently interested.

Richard

andre14
10-06-2010, 03:01 PM
bad gas? old fuel filter?
you seem to have covered pretty much everything...

dan22644
10-06-2010, 06:46 PM
bad gas? old fuel filter?
you seem to have covered pretty much everything...

Nope, new fuel filter, its in the list.

This is the crazy part, I have put about 5000 miles on the car since this whole thing started. If I stay below 3000rpm it runs PERFECT. In fact it idles perfect and I get about as good of mileage as possible 22mpg at cruise 60 to 65mph. I have driven it for weeks at a time without getting a CEL, as long as I limit myself to 3000rpm (which is really not hard, if you are not screwing around there is no reason to go over 3000rpm).

So to answer your question, no its not bad gas as I have goon through at least 12 tank fulls of gas since this started! It's crazy...

darkstarmedia
10-06-2010, 06:53 PM
Scratch that...

richard

andre14
10-06-2010, 10:43 PM
Nope, new fuel filter, its in the list.

This is the crazy part, I have put about 5000 miles on the car since this whole thing started. If I stay below 3000rpm it runs PERFECT. In fact it idles perfect and I get about as good of mileage as possible 22mpg at cruise 60 to 65mph. I have driven it for weeks at a time without getting a CEL, as long as I limit myself to 3000rpm (which is really not hard, if you are not screwing around there is no reason to go over 3000rpm).

So to answer your question, no its not bad gas as I have goon through at least 12 tank fulls of gas since this started! It's crazy...

given the fact that you have more than one cylinder, I would rule out an electrical issue.
Try a new MAF, I know you cleaned yours but maybe it's gone. (maybe you can swap one out from a working car)
You said fuel pressure was fine... did they checked that at 3000 rpms?
The other thing would be loosing compression... but in all those cylinders?

MAF or Fuel pump.

dan22644
10-07-2010, 10:54 AM
Almost certain its not the MAFs for a couple reasons.

1. This started suddenly, it hasn't gotten worse (or better) since onset
2. When BMW had it they said the signal from the MAFs was good
3. Bad MAFs would affect cruise more than WOT (and cruise seems perfect)
4. This is the V12, so I have two MAFs, and it doesn't make sense that BOTH would fail in the exact same way to effect both cylinder banks
5. I tested them by disconnecting both MAFs and test driving the car. It actually ran fairly well, but I still got the misfires!

Fuel pump is still a possibility; they checked fuel pressure, but I doubt they checked it at high RPMs.

Thanks for all the feedback so far, if we keep talking about it, I think we will find it!

Timm
10-07-2010, 11:13 AM
Make 100% sure that you have the plug leads in the right order. I know this is one thing that often gets checked, but make absolutely sure, as the lead order on the distributors is quite confusing. Here is the correct order:

http://www.meeknet.co.uk/E32/V12_Distributor_Leads.htm

darkstarmedia
10-07-2010, 01:09 PM
I would defiantly get a long fuel pressure gauge and hook it up and tape it to the windshield. and drive the car and see if it remains stable...

Richard

andre14
10-07-2010, 01:25 PM
Hey. Does your engine have variable timing? (Sorry man, I know nothing about the V12). I believe that early VT systems alter the cam angle according to rpms and not load... this might explain why this comes up only over 3000rpm.

darkstarmedia
10-07-2010, 01:37 PM
no... the first v12 with any kind of variable valve train was the e66

dan22644
10-07-2010, 03:30 PM
What about ignition timing? Is there any way that I'm not getting any or enough ignition timing? I would think I would have a noticeable loss of power, and this thing still goes like it should, and smooth as can be.

I just checked the fuel filter to make sure I didn't put it in backwards or something stupid, and everything looks good. Something caught my eye while I was in there; the fuel pressure regulator is vacuum controlled. I pulled the fuel pressure regulator and checked to make sure it wasn't frozen or anything. I could move it by pushing on it with a flat punch, but it seemed pretty stiff. I gave it a squirt or two of WD-40 and put it back. Test drive seemed to be the same though, same codes.

dan22644
02-14-2011, 07:39 AM
Just so others don't come looking for what I did to fix this abomination, I didn't fix it, I traded it in on a great car.

These cars are a joke, don't waste your life on them, or BMW.

End of story.

shled
02-14-2011, 08:52 AM
Some are clever enough to own these cars.
Others, not so much.