View Full Version : What is it, and do I need it??
89 bimmer
09-29-2010, 10:21 PM
I have seen this "brace" looking item that goes across the engine ay in a few e34s and BMWs in general. I have seen a good bit without it also. My question is what is it, and do I need one, or is it purely cosmetic?
I hope this is clear what I'm trying to indicate.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/th_untitled1.jpg (http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/?action=view¤t=untitled1.jpg)
Sorry about the bad picture. I just did a quick paint edit.
sbeckman7
09-29-2010, 10:55 PM
It's called a strut brace. It connects the tops of the strut towers and is designed to prevent body flex. As to how well it works, that is a highly controversial subject, but everyone says it's the last thing you should add to your car in terms of the handling department. In other words, get upgraded springs, shocks, sways, etc first
Hope that helps
Steve547i
09-29-2010, 10:58 PM
It's called a strut brace. It connects the tops of the strut towers and is designed to prevent body flex. As to how well it works, that is a highly controversial subject, but everyone says it's the last thing you should add to your car in terms of the handling department. In other words, get upgraded springs, shocks, sways, etc first
Hope that helps
I have stock springs and bavauto springs. Its super low. I picked up a knock off bar on ebay for cheap, and it ended up being racing dynamics. I noticed an immediate difference in handling (sp?). Im super happy with it.
89 bimmer
09-29-2010, 10:59 PM
It's called a strut brace. It connects the tops of the strut towers and is designed to prevent body flex. As to how well it works, that is a highly controversial subject, but everyone says it's the last thing you should add to your car in terms of the handling department. In other words, get upgraded springs, shocks, sways, etc first
Hope that helps
So if I follow you correctly it wont help me unless my car is under a good deal of stress. I do plan on getting a new suspension setup. That does help as far as what it is, and do I need it. Thanks!
ShapeShifter
09-29-2010, 11:09 PM
Just jewelry on a street car.
Steve547i
09-29-2010, 11:19 PM
Just jewelry on a street car.
not true. i feel a difference.
wiringwiz
09-30-2010, 01:20 AM
not true. i feel a difference.
:lol unless you are taking corners at 60mph they will not do anything.
Placebo
DUDMD
09-30-2010, 02:04 AM
Unless you do a lot of driving on curvy roads or take your car to autoX, the money could be used on another part that's more useful on the E34.
JoeFVaz
09-30-2010, 07:21 AM
Perhaps you should consider upgrading the suspension before trying one of those. It seems useless to install it in a stock car.
bolloc
09-30-2010, 07:39 AM
The average driver would have no idea whether that part is there or not, the average driver can't tell if a steering or suspension part is worn out by driving alone. In fact from what I have seen the average driver couldn't tell if he is running on a tire with 1/2 pressure.
Most of us are average drivers, if the strut brace has any real benefit, we will never realize it in a million years.
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 08:56 AM
Alright thanks, it'll be something I'll add as a final touch.
M30Stui
09-30-2010, 08:56 AM
Engine bay candy, spend your money elsewhere like a top mount turbo :D
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 09:01 AM
Engine bay candy, spend your money elsewhere like a top mount turbo :D
You have no idea how much I would LOVE a turbo. But a turbo is the gift that keeps on costing. Even if I could support the massive blow to my budget to buy and install it, I couldn't spport my daily driving with a turbo in my car.
I have a cold air intake planned for this christmas. I'm hoping it'll give me a wee bit more Horsepower without losing too much gas milage.
Busted Knuckles
09-30-2010, 09:06 AM
I was going to say that if you don't know what it is you don't need it, but other's have already covered it pretty well in their posts.
bolloc
09-30-2010, 09:08 AM
You have no idea how much I would LOVE a turbo. But a turbo is the gift that keeps on costing. Even if I could support the massive blow to my budget to buy and install it, I couldn't spport my daily driving with a turbo in my car.
I have a cold air intake planned for this christmas. I'm hoping it'll give me a wee bit more Horsepower without losing too much gas milage.
Yeah listening to my cold air intake I would estimate somewhere in the region of 30 or so extra horses.... In reality I suspect it doesn't loose more than around 10 hp.
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 09:11 AM
Yeah listening to my cold air intake I would estimate somewhere in the region of 30 or so extra horses.... In reality I suspect it doesn't loose more than around 10 hp.
So you're saying your intake actually loses horsepower??
zubbie
09-30-2010, 09:21 AM
So you're saying your intake actually loses horsepower??
That is generally correct. E34 CAI's are really HAI's
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 09:22 AM
That is generally correct. E34 CAI's are really HAI's
So theres nothing gained from putting a modified air intake in my car other than looks?
zubbie
09-30-2010, 09:24 AM
So theres nothing gained from putting a modified air intake in my car other than looks?
nope. ain't no Honda
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 09:27 AM
nope. ain't no Honda
Well since I have you for a bit, what small things can I do to gain a small bit of horsepower without losing too much gas milage? I just thought of this, and while I wait for you to respond I will be searching up on the forums.
BoldUlysses
09-30-2010, 09:28 AM
So theres nothing gained from putting a modified air intake in my car other than looks?
FYI, your car already has a cold-air intake in the sense that there's a snorkel underneath the airbox that pulls cold air from behind the passenger-side high-beam. Any intake you add that isn't a closed path to the outside air is, by definition, a hot-air intake, since it will pull warm air from under the hood.
If you really want to upgrade your intake, a drop-in filter is your best bet, and even those aren't universally-acknowledged to be beneficial. Most of us stick with the stock filter.
-Matt
bolloc
09-30-2010, 09:35 AM
So theres nothing gained from putting a modified air intake in my car other than looks?
I didn't say that, the gain is music to the ears... Best way to describe it I think is its like the sound you get when the secondaries crack open on a 4bbl.
The previous owner of my car installed one of these dumb ass things, I think he knew he lost hp, so he cut a bloody hole in the hood and scooped it, forcing cool air into the engine bay, it helped, probably enough to get it back to normal hp output. It sounded great too. But now we have a situation where the hood looks stupid, so he put a scoop on the other side.... oh yeah it looked more stupid.
This totally threw out the drag coefficiency of the car, so now we were back to stock horsepower, a loss of top speed due to increased drag, an unbalanced handling car because air was directed through the engine compartment underneath the car that even a strut brace couldn't over come, a gay looking hood that lost structural integrity and actually dented and warped the gay looking hood making it not only gay but shit, plus the hot air rising from the exhaust manifold decreased the integrity of the plastic tie wraps that holds this all in place... but man! it does sound good!
Well since I have you for a bit, what small things can I do to gain a small bit of horsepower without losing too much gas milage? I just thought of this, and while I wait for you to respond I will be searching up on the forums.
A proper tune up, and correctly inflated tires.
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 09:41 AM
FYI, your car already has a cold-air intake in the sense that there's a snorkel underneath the airbox that pulls cold air from behind the passenger-side high-beam. Any intake you add that isn't a closed path to the outside air is, by definition, a hot-air intake, since it will pull warm air from under the hood.
If you really want to upgrade your intake, a drop-in filter is your best bet, and even those aren't universally-acknowledged to be beneficial. Most of us stick with the stock filter.
-Matt
Ok, since you mention that I do have a seemingly silly question for you guys. When I look at the air intake it comes around to the left, when looking at the engine bay from the bumper. But when I look at the piece of plastic over my right headlight, theres a hole in the piece of plastic in the same place the air intake is on the left side. My question is, and I'm sure it's a simple "no you idiot", but can my car have two air intakes?
In the bottom left hand corner a small circle can be seen, and my air intake is at that height on the opposite side of my engine bay.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/Car/th_IMG_20100830_221018.jpg (http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/Car/?action=view¤t=IMG_20100830_221018.jpg)
Sorry if this is a stupid question.
wiringwiz
09-30-2010, 09:43 AM
nope. ain't no Honda
Let's not bullshit around and post a dyno proving your point please, other wise don't tally tale.
CAI with straight pipes will give you better response and some power gain on high end even for M60 and much more for other E34's.
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 09:44 AM
I didn't say that, the gain is music to the ears... Best way to describe it I think is its like the sound you get when the secondaries crack open on a 4bbl.
The previous owner of my car installed one of these dumb ass things, I think he knew he lost hp, so he cut a bloody hole in the hood and scooped it, forcing cool air into the engine bay, it helped, probably enough to get it back to normal hp output. It sounded great too. But now we have a situation where the hood looks stupid, so he put a scoop on the other side.... oh yeah it looked more stupid.
This totally threw out the drag coefficiency of the car, so now we were back to stock horsepower, a loss of top speed due to increased drag, an unbalanced handling car because air was directed through the engine compartment underneath the car that even a strut brace couldn't over come, a gay looking hood that lost structural integrity and actually dented and warped the gay looking hood making it not only gay but shit, plus the hot air rising from the exhaust manifold decreased the integrity of the plastic tie wraps that holds this all in place... but man! it does sound good!
A proper tune up, and correctly inflated tires.
Kinda sounds like a ricer had your car. :o
bolloc
09-30-2010, 09:45 AM
Ok, since you mention that I do have a seemingly silly question for you guys. When I look at the air intake it comes around to the left, when looking at the engine bay from the bumper. But when I look at the piece of plastic over my right headlight, theres a hole in the piece of plastic in the same place the air intake is on the left side. My question is, and I'm sure it's a simple "no you idiot", but can my car have two air intakes?
In the bottom left hand corner a small circle can be seen, and my air intake is at that height on the opposite side of my engine bay.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/Car/th_IMG_20100830_221018.jpg (http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/Car/?action=view¤t=IMG_20100830_221018.jpg)
Sorry if this is a stupid question.
Not a stupid question at all.... yes that is another source of cold air. That is for the plumbing that connects to the alternator, you appear to be missing those parts. I was too, I bought them from pelican.
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 09:46 AM
Let's not bullshit around and post a dyno proving your point please, other wise don't tally tale.
CAI with straight pipes will give you better response and some power gain on high end even for M60 and much more for other E34's.
That pretty much answers my questions. Thanks!
Not a stupid question at all.... yes that is another source of cold air. That is for the plumbing that connects to the alternator, you appear to be missing those parts. I was too, I bought them from pelican.
Well I'll point to the original question in this thread. Do I need those parts?
bolloc
09-30-2010, 09:52 AM
Kinda sounds like a ricer had your car. :o
Some people would agree with you, those same people would probably label me as one because of what I have done to my car.
But the way I look at it is it was a young guy that was looking for some cheap easy bolt on hp gain, he fell for the hype. As for taste .. well thats an opinion, I didn't like the scoops from day one, most people here wouldn't like them, but it amazes me how many people have commented about their absence since I replaced the hood, then expanded on it by saying they liked them.
Generally speaking, if there is a cheap way of gaining 10 hp why didn't BMW already do it, are they too stupid when it comes to designing cars to come up with these ideas on their own.
Due diligence before cheque book (CC, paypal whatever) ....
That pretty much answers my questions. Thanks!
Well I'll point to the original question in this thread. Do I need those parts?
Ok back to my last post .. Did BMW think you needed those parts? Sure, thats why they are there.
Alternators don't like hot engine bays, they don't last as long in extreme heat, duct it, and get a longer life.
Do I think they need to be there, based on my experience (I own a fiero as well), absolutly!
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 10:04 AM
Some people would agree with you, those same people would probably label me as one because of what I have done to my car.
But the way I look at it is it was a young guy that was looking for some cheap easy bolt on hp gain, he fell for the hype. As for taste .. well thats an opinion, I didn't like the scoops from day one, most people here wouldn't like them, but it amazes me how many people have commented about their absence since I replaced the hood, then expanded on it by saying they liked them.
Generally speaking, if there is a cheap way of gaining 10 hp why didn't BMW already do it, are they too stupid when it comes to designing cars to come up with these ideas on their own.
Due diligence before cheque book (CC, paypal whatever) ....
Ok back to my last post .. Did BMW think you needed those parts? Sure, thats why they are there.
Alternators don't like hot engine bays, they don't last as long in extreme heat, duct it, and get a longer life.
Do I think they need to be there, based on my experience (I own a fiero as well), absolutly!
So what exactly is the part(s) that I need, and can you give me a time frame on when it needs to be replaced? So I dont have the debacle of a situation gi on with my control arms.
Steve547i
09-30-2010, 10:11 AM
Free rides in my car with and without the bar
wiringwiz
09-30-2010, 10:16 AM
Free rides in my car with and without the bar
:shifty
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_f3SZ5Tu916o/S8oMjXM7bVI/AAAAAAAAQfA/WHq5GqoU3vA/s1600/pedobear.png
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 10:22 AM
:shifty
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_f3SZ5Tu916o/S8oMjXM7bVI/AAAAAAAAQfA/WHq5GqoU3vA/s1600/pedobear.png
My gf just saw this picture and is oogling over it.
bolloc
09-30-2010, 10:30 AM
So what exactly is the part(s) that I need, and can you give me a time frame on when it needs to be replaced? So I dont have the debacle of a situation gi on with my control arms.
Sorry I did edit my last post, guess I didnt hit save, when I answered I thought you were asking about the alternator ducts, Yes you need those.
The original question was about the strut brace, no you don't need that.
Now go back edit your post and remove the picture of that stupid bear....
wiringwiz
09-30-2010, 10:35 AM
Now go back edit your post and remove the picture of that stupid bear....
You mad?
bolloc
09-30-2010, 10:37 AM
Free rides in my car with and without the bar
Ok I get it, you do notice the difference, that may very well be, good race car drivers notice subtle differences and are able to offer advice to engineers, you may fall into that catagory.
Or... perhaps your car may have some worn parts, the extra rigidity the strut brace offers is masking them.
Would I get into a 15-20 year old car with someone who is going to demonstrate the difference in handling that a strut brace makes ...
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 10:39 AM
Sorry I did edit my last post, guess I didnt hit save, when I answered I thought you were asking about the alternator ducts, Yes you need those.
The original question was about the strut brace, no you don't need that.
Now go back edit your post and remove the picture of that stupid bear....
Sorry for the miscommunication. So I just need to search for e34 alternator ducts? BTW, nice car! :D
wiringwiz
09-30-2010, 10:44 AM
Sorry for the miscommunication. So I just need to search for e34 alternator ducts? BTW, nice car! :D
Buy them.. $10 from autohauzeaz
zubbie
09-30-2010, 10:51 AM
Let's not bullshit around and post a dyno proving your point please, other wise don't tally tale.
CAI with straight pipes will give you better response and some power gain on high end even for M60 and much more for other E34's.
It's common knowledge. (well I guess not that common :confused)
http://www.bmwe34.net/Wiki/tiki-index.php?page=Air+filter
bolloc
09-30-2010, 10:54 AM
It's common knowledge. (well I guess not that common :confused)
Nevermind that its common sense!
Sorry for the miscommunication. So I just need to search for e34 alternator ducts? BTW, nice car! :D
Thank you...
I don't know if some alternators come without the air duct, look at yours, if it has a 3 inch (approx) elbow on the top, then yours does have one, you need to buy two or three pieces to make the connection to the front.
wiringwiz
09-30-2010, 10:56 AM
It's common knowledge. (well I guess not that common :confused)
http://www.bmwe34.net/Wiki/tiki-index.php?page=Air+filter
No it's not; all of you quote that web site, we all know about that web site it was written in 2000 and it only addresses K&N DROP IN FILTERS not CAI's.
Get a clue before spreading same old recycled information, those two dudes can argue all day but without dyno both of them are retarded including you and everybody else.
DYNO OR GO HOME
M30Stui
09-30-2010, 11:04 AM
No it's not; all of you quote that web site, we all know about that web site it was written in 2000 and it only addresses K&N DROP IN FILTERS not CAI's.
Get a clue before spreading same old recycled information, those two dudes can argue all day but without dyno both of them are retarded including you and everybody else.
DYNO OR GO HOME
I would not take heed to anything this bloke has to say. Intentional misinformation :rolleyes
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 11:08 AM
Nevermind that its common sense!
Thank you...
I don't know if some alternators come without the air duct, look at yours, if it has a 3 inch (approx) elbow on the top, then yours does have one, you need to buy two or three pieces to make the connection to the front.
It has that elbow, So I'll try to find those parts. Thanks!!
wiringwiz
09-30-2010, 11:11 AM
I would not take heed to anything this bloke has to say. Intentional misinformation :rolleyes
Post a dyno graph proving me wrong, oh wait you can't. If this was a court case you would get laughed out.
bolloc
09-30-2010, 11:17 AM
No it's not; all of you quote that web site, we all know about that web site it was written in 2000 and it only addresses K&N DROP IN FILTERS not CAI's.
Get a clue before spreading same old recycled information, those two dudes can argue all day but without dyno both of them are retarded including you and everybody else.
DYNO OR GO HOME
Not all of us, I didn't post that site, why would I bother paying for a dyno test on something I know is stupid.
I think if you need to prove you're right and everyone else is wrong it is you who should post dyno results of your car with and without.
Of course, in todays age, I would only accept them as real if they were notarized.
M30Stui
09-30-2010, 11:20 AM
Post a dyno graph proving me wrong, oh wait you can't. If this was a court case you would get laughed out.
Just out of interest where in Holland do you live?
BoldUlysses
09-30-2010, 11:30 AM
Just out of interest where in Holland do you live?
I was wondering that myself, since he was interested in a car in AL:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=20412561&postcount=24
but it looks like we're too late to get a response! :rofl:
...at least until the many-headed hydra reemerges...
-Matt
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 11:44 AM
tried searching for alternator duct, and alternator in general, and got nothing of the sort that I need on pelican. Where else should I try?
BoldUlysses
09-30-2010, 11:48 AM
tried searching for alternator duct, and alternator in general, and got nothing of the sort that I need on pelican. Where else should I try?
Look through here until you find the parts you need:
http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E34/Sedan/USA/535i-M30/LHD/A/1989/november/browse/
Probably under "Engine Electrical."
Get the part number from the chart below the image (BMW part numbers look similar to this: 07 11 9 912 535).
Plug the part number into the search field on the Pelican website. Much easier than searching by name.
-Matt
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 11:53 AM
according to this chart I need 3 and 5, but what about 4? Is that a secondary option?
Edit: on the link provided i would be cheaper to buy it there than from pelican.
zubbie
09-30-2010, 11:54 AM
I was wondering that myself, since he was interested in a car in AL:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=20412561&postcount=24
but it looks like we're too late to get a response! :rofl:
...at least until the many-headed hydra reemerges...
-Matt
license revoked. another troll bites the dust. perhaps porshe? yet again?
according to this chart I need 3 and 5, but what about 4? Is that a secondary option?
been through this. You need 1,2,3, and 5. Not sure what 4 is for. In my case part 5 had to come from germany and took a few weeks.
http://static.bmwfans.info/images/epc/NTczNDJfcA==.png (http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E34/Sedan/Europe/535i-M30/LHD/A/1989/july/browse/engine_electrical_system/alternator_cooling/)
Alternator cooling (http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E34/Sedan/Europe/535i-M30/LHD/A/1989/july/browse/engine_electrical_system/alternator_cooling/) - BMW parts catalog (http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/)
jfj707
09-30-2010, 12:00 PM
Ok, since you mention that I do have a seemingly silly question for you guys. When I look at the air intake it comes around to the left, when looking at the engine bay from the bumper. But when I look at the piece of plastic over my right headlight, theres a hole in the piece of plastic in the same place the air intake is on the left side. My question is, and I'm sure it's a simple "no you idiot", but can my car have two air intakes?
In the bottom left hand corner a small circle can be seen, and my air intake is at that height on the opposite side of my engine bay.
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/Car/th_IMG_20100830_221018.jpg (http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z292/usedsk8r/Car/?action=view¤t=IMG_20100830_221018.jpg)
Sorry if this is a stupid question.
Is it the alternator cooling duct?
bolloc
09-30-2010, 12:01 PM
according to this chart I need 3 and 5, but what about 4? Is that a secondary option?
Edit: on the link provided i would be cheaper to buy it there than from pelican.
Figures, I already bought and installed mine.... mind you I have to make sure when I order stuff I combine as much as possible because of shipping costs. Pelicans' shipping costs are reasonable, their response is fast and they invariably have what I want.
# 4 looks to me like a one piece alternate to the 2 pieces required for the alternator with the vent on the right side. (as you face the front of the car)
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 12:56 PM
license revoked. another troll bites the dust. perhaps porshe? yet again?
been through this. You need 1,2,3, and 5. Not sure what 4 is for. In my case part 5 had to come from germany and took a few weeks.
http://static.bmwfans.info/images/epc/NTczNDJfcA==.png (http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E34/Sedan/Europe/535i-M30/LHD/A/1989/july/browse/engine_electrical_system/alternator_cooling/)
Alternator cooling (http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E34/Sedan/Europe/535i-M30/LHD/A/1989/july/browse/engine_electrical_system/alternator_cooling/) - BMW parts catalog (http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/)
I have 1 and 2 on my alternator already. pelican has both of these parts, but when I search for 5, I get the item without a picture. I just wanna make sure I'm buying the right part.
bolloc
09-30-2010, 01:26 PM
I have 1 and 2 on my alternator already. pelican has both of these parts, but when I search for 5, I get the item without a picture. I just wanna make sure I'm buying the right part.
I bought that part, however I don't have the back of the headlights yet (on there way) to confirm 100% that it is correct, I have it installed using wire tie at front, it does look correct to me...
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 01:31 PM
I bought that part, however I don't have the back of the headlights yet (on there way) to confirm 100% that it is correct, I have it installed using wire tie at front, it does look correct to me...
I dont have the plastic piece of the back of th headlights on the left side, facing the engine bay from the bumper, and the air intake doesn't have a problem setting where it needs to be. But now that you mention it, how much did you pay for the plastic piece? I have the one that should go on there. Well... Half of it. I found it in the trunk among a few other pieces.
bolloc
09-30-2010, 01:33 PM
I bought it in a package of items used, from ybyless, in the classified section here, didn't pay much.
I thought pelican had them for something like 11 bucks... could be wrong isn't the first time wont be the last...
89 bimmer
09-30-2010, 01:39 PM
I bought it in a package of items used, from ybyless, in the classified section here, didn't pay much.
I thought pelican had them for something like 11 bucks... could be wrong isn't the first time wont be the last...
Ok, thanks!
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