Will Porsche 993 Brakes Fit E36?

[BMW M Power]

like the title says. will the brakes of a 993/6 carrera 2/4 fit the e36? not the big read turbo breaks, but the black calipers. i got a connection where i could get the parts cheap.

thanks in advance.
Brent

[///MCubed]

As long as you get custom caliper adapters and custom rotor hats made, yes they will fit.

[BMW M Power]

oh.....damn. with that kind of modifications, i might as well buy a stoptech or brembo kit.

[993TargaGuy]

talk to M triple, he has Porsche brakes...
They'll fit, stock 993s only have 17inch wheels, but I don't know what you'll need to modify.

[themadhatter]

you can call up ECIS for the 996 Carrera kit. I'm not too familiar with the 993 non-turbo setup but the 996 calipers are one piece calipers (brembo) and very stiff.

I have this type of kit on my car.

-Ron

[BMW M Power]

madhatter - so you have the 996 turbo (aka big reds) on your e36?

what exactly did you need to modify in order to mount the calipers, and make the rotors fit on the hubs?

[themadhatter]

I have 996 911 Carrera calipers front and rear. these are the monobloc calipers and are 4 pistons each. the rotors are E46 M3 Euro Rotors up front and Cross Drilled E38 750iL rear rotors in the rear.

let me dig up a picture for you.

-Ron

[BMW M Power]

how much did the rotors set you back?

how much are replacement pads?

how did you mount the calipers?

so the e46 m3 euro rotors are the same size as the rotors that porsche uses on the 996 911 Carrera, same as the 750il rears?

[themadhatter]

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you can find more pics of the full kit here: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147231&highlight=couple

I bought both the front and rear as kits. The front was from Rogue and the rear was custom fabricated by Rogue Engineering to use the larger 750iL rear rotor.

I don't think you can buy the kit from Rogue anymore but you can purchase the Front and a similiar Rear kit from ECIS. The ECIS rear will use a slightly smaller 740i rear rotor (I don't think it's too much of an issue).

the beauty here is that you retain your factory e-brake setup as the E38 and E36 M3 share the same e-brake setup including shoes.

How much? www.ecisbmw.com $1650 & $1200 for the kit and you're all set with a very nice matched set. :)

Swept space is dead on for both the front and rear rotors. There no part of the rotor surface that isn't in contact with the pad unlike some other kits I've seen.

the beauty here is that you don't have to buy your parts from one company, you aren't married to them for the life of your car. you simply go the dealer and buy new rotors and pads or you can order any of a billion specialized pads for the 996 calipers.

I'm running Hawk HPS pads front and back, I'm waiting for Axxis Ultimates to come out (if ever) since I'd prefer a quieter pad as these like to squeal when cold.

I already have a few thousand miles on the kit and I'm very happy with the results, stopping power is superior to anything I've driven and the balance is perfect, the car stops flat, no dive and no trailing. Stops from 140mph aren't an issue (I'm running without ABS), the brakes just ask for more. I've auto-x'ed the setup and I was very pleased with their performance as well, very easy to control and toss the car around.

oh yeah, I also get to enjoy the confused look on the guy next to me at the light or on the highway as they read the word " P O R S C H E" on my calipers. :d

-Ron

[themadhatter]

hmmm...pics didn't work, no big deal I guess - just use the link.

-Ron

[BMW M Power]

why dont you have the abs???

[themadhatter]

left front wheel speed sensor was damaged with over zealous use of a cutting tool :D

I want to change my front wheel bearings anyways so I'll have to change both speed sensors as it is.

-Ron

[Dan Wang]

Just a clarification here. The 993 TT calipers were originally known as "big reds". The 996 Turbo calipers are commonly known as "big red monobloc"

Dan


Originally posted by BMW M Power
madhatter - so you have the 996 turbo (aka big reds) on your e36?

what exactly did you need to modify in order to mount the calipers, and make the rotors fit on the hubs?

[BMW M Power]

thanks for the clarification.

so the big red monoblock are better than the big red??

[themadhatter]

Originally posted by BMW M Power
thanks for the clarification.

so the big red monoblock are better than the big red??

yes, all the monobloc calipers from brembo are 1 piece calipers. they are much more ridgid and less prone to flexing like many two piece kits.

as I mentioned before, I have the calipers from the 996 911 Carrera, not the Turbo models....but those would be nice (6 pistons - hmmmmmmm). :D

-Ron

[Dan Wang]

Ron is correct. The monoblocs are stiffer, however the caliper flex found in the "big reds" shouldnt be too bad compared to the monoblocs.

The monoblocs are better, but due to their increase width, there is a greater probability that fitment will be a greater problem.

Stick with the 993TT calipers. Pads are readily available.

[BMW M Power]

madhatter - do the calipers use the stock mounting brackets? or does the kit come with the mounting brackets? do you think ecis would just sell me the bracket?

[themadhatter]

BMW M Power - you need custom mounting brackets, I don't believe ECIS will sell them to you as it would probably undermine their business. The kit they sell is very easy to install as everything bolts right up. the only serious work is when cutting off the dust shields as you know from my previous post. :D

just make sure to buy some fluid, I used ATE Super Blue that I picked up from Rogue.

Dan Wang - I have to respectfully disagree: I had a set of 993tt calipers in hand when buying the bbk for my car, they were heavier and MUCH wider then the calipers I have now. the 993tt caliper is massive, a very impressive caliper but not applicable for what I was looking for. :)

Pads are readily available for all of Porsche's fitments and the fact that they use an industry standardized pad sizing (thank you brembo) makes buying pads a breeze. My favorite thing about these calipers are that you can "hot swap" pads without even pulling off the wheel in some cases.

their kit consists of Calipers, brackets, the special SS lines, pads (Hawk HPS), and a nice cardboard box. ;)

-Ron

[alexd]

I had the black calipers and could not make them work - noone had a bracket and to get one made was going to be too expensive. Good thing I didnt have to buy them first to find that out (they came off my dads car).

I ended up going with the Stop Tech kit.

[themadhatter]

stop tech makes a great kit.

[Dan Wang]

Stoptechs are great kits, and unlike what most people think out there, they are not copies of brembos brakes.

Sorry for the confusion. The monoblocs were designed for a couple purposes: to save weight and to reduce caliper flex. With the 1 piece design they were able to save weight over the 2 piece design because it does not use bolts to hold the 2 pieces together. The one piece is also more rigid.

[carcrazed4life]

Sorry to bring up this old thread, but what is different from this kit versus the Rouge kit? Looks like the same rotors, same physical calipers, except the rouge kit offers rears cross drilled.

Is the E46 M3 rear rotor hub-centric? If so, can an E46 M3 caliper fit on an E36 M3 hub out back. If I go with the Rogue/ECIS kit, can I honestly take a cheap way out and balance the rears out with E46 M3 rears on a floating rotor (versus solid E38 rotor?)

Also, From my understanding, the rear E46 M3s are 328x28 which make them bigger and as light as the E38s?

Comments?

[themadhatter]

you mean the Rogue kit?

you're best bet is to call up Rogue or ECIS (www.rogueengineering.com www.ecisbmw.com) to get the right answers from them since they are the guys that produce the kits, they would have the best answers for you.

here's another shot of the Rogue/ECIS kit on the front of my E36 332is:

[carcrazed4life]

Agreed on the Rouge vs ECIS....but what aobut just regular E46 M3 Calipers + rotors out back on an E36 M3? do-able?

[themadhatter]

Charlie,

I am using the E38 750iL rear rotors on my car with a Rogue supplied bracket and porsche caliper. This retains the factory e-brake setup for an E36 m3 since they use the same e-brake setup.

you may want to investigate some more by calling up a couple of salvage yards for 750iL rear rotors/calipers or 740i rotors and calipers to do some test fitting. Make sure you can get your hands on the caliper carrier as well. Who knows, it may be a direct bolt up or an easy bolt up with a little modification.

I do not know much about the E46 M3 rear setup but a 330i rear setup is rumored to bolt up there.

Good luck!
Ron

[fast4d]

I have a BBK with brembo F40 calipers now. It uses E46 M3 rotors. The rear is stock.

do you guys think I can benefit from a rear BBK?

I've done a few track events and I've never felt the rear ABS kick in. I don't see too much wear on the rear pads either.

[themadhatter]

Alan,

how is the pedal feel and balance with your kit?

thanks,
Ron

[fast4d]

pedal feel is good as stock and balance seems ok. The front ABS will kick in before the rears so it may not be perfectly balanced. I'm used to non-abs with an adjustable proportion valve on my other car. This will probably protect me from a spin if I do something stupid.

I did heat the fluid up pretty good with HPS pads and no air ducting on the track. The pedal got a little spongy till I bled it again.

[M3 GT Ben]

Originally posted by fast4d
do you guys think I can benefit from a rear BBK?

I've done a few track events and I've never felt the rear ABS kick in. I don't see too much wear on the rear pads either.

The only benefit from an upgraded rear kit is that it would change the balance of your current setup (modified front, stock rear) to become more balanced. This means that the front ABS won't prematurely come on to increase you stopping distances.

The only issue with may BBK (front, rear or even both) is that most kits have issues with stock master clyinders and their ability to push the fluid required with the additional pistons of the fixed calipers.