radiator fluid vs. H2O

[bigmansM]

ok basically my friend told me that radiator fluid is worthless becase water will the same job. he says

"Friend: about teh radiotor fluid
Friend: no need
Friend: H20 is as good as it gets
WcRiot: um u sure?
Friend: everything else anyone tries to sell you is BS
Friend: yeah
Friend: enviornmental science
WcRiot: whast your science bhind that
WcRiot: sounds like conservationist
WcRiot: bastards!
Friend water requires the most calories to raise the temperatue by one degree per gram, hence it is the one that absorbs the most heat, lol, and any other radiator fluids and antifreezes are to help it prevent freezing
WcRiot: u sure u want me to put all of this?
Friend you might argue that water had a low boiling point, and that other liquids have a higher boiling point
Friend: but then again, water will never reach its boiling point if your cr is running properly
Friend: put all this where?
WcRiot: o the bimmerforums:-)
Friend: lol
Friend: why not, i would like to see what arguments peopel can com up with
WcRiot: oh i think that on a dyno at least when tuning a car water would bebad because the rpm will be held at 6,500 ish for several mins
Friend: i still dont think so

ok guys u heard him, i wanna know what everyone thinks, i am sure there is an advantage to R fluid over water.

[Mantic]

It's there to keep the water from freezing and cracking blocks, hoses, lines, ect......... You can use water by its self in hot weather if you choose but i don't see the point unless you have cooling problems. I think anti-freeze also raises the boiling point of the mixture.

If you live where it freezes always use anti-freeze.

[Hyperion]

Water is not the best.

If water freezes over on a cold night a lot of good it does when you snap off your plastic impeler on your crappy BMW waterpump. Then you get the added enjoyment of fishing all those plastic parts out of the block... Oh Joy.

There are many additives that will both raiser the boiling point, and raise the freezing point while also increasing the R Value of the fluid, which means it will dissapate heat faster. Meaning that it will take heat out of the block faster and get rid of it faster though the radiator. Not to even mention the fact that many of the additives have special non corosive agents to help keep the water from rusting away any metal part.

So as for water being the absolut best, not by a long shot.

[ponq]

Everything Hyperion said,

ditto

[KC Ron Carter]

some needed lubricant for the water pump bearing.

Corrosion preventative to keep the cylinder head and radiator from being destroyed.

You friend in LA would have to do a drug test in most cities if that is a serious response.

Maybe the bolts in his nose are too tight.

Friends do not let friends do crack and lose brain cells.

Later,

[fast4d]

there's a reason why "coolant" is also called anti-freeze. it's just that, to prevent freezing. your cooling system is pressurized for a reason. to raise the boiling point.

water by itself is better in transferring heat. you need to use DISTILLED water to prevent corrosion/buildup. it's also advisible to use something that'll lube the water pump. I use 100% distilled water and water wetter year round since I live in so cal.

as for the reasons stated above your friend is a "little" off...

[Aren G]

NO
i used water for a long time becuse my water pump seal was broken and it kept leaking so i didnt want to keep buying anti-freeze because i didnt have enough time to get it fixed so it was cheaper for me to add water for the meantime... but yeah, when i opened up my water reservoir there was rust in there.

of course i drained my system when i fixed the water pump, and put in anti freeze but in all seriousness, dont use water.
and if you're forced to, use drinking water because it has less minerals.

[fast4d]

you people use tap water and get corrosion in the system. what did you expect?

[BMWGIRL]

Did you know that BMW factory coolant is Blue. My husband bought some the other day.....dont know why (it was hella expensive)....but thought it was weird that it was blue. He said it didnt have electrolytes in it, or something like that.:dunno

[hal9000]

Originally posted by BMWGIRL
Did you know that BMW factory coolant is Blue. My husband bought some the other day.....dont know why (it was hella expensive)....but thought it was weird that it was blue. He said it didnt have electrolytes in it, or something like that.:dunno

BMW coolant is supposed to be phosphate free.

[bigmansM]

other then water freezing in the system, the next thing that radiator fluid does, is protect from rusting and corrosion, and finally the boiling point is higher because of the added chemcials.

[John in Houston]

Originally posted by bigmansM
WcRiot: oh i think that on a dyno at least when tuning a car water would bebad because the rpm will be held at 6,500 ish for several mins

Here is where your frind WcRiot shows his IQ. Holding the RPMs at 6500 for SEVERAL MINUTES on a dyno run. Yeah, right:rolleyes:

I'm guessing assclown of the year award now has a new candidate:D

[Mark85]

Originally posted by John in Houston
Here is where your frind WcRiot shows his IQ. Holding the RPMs at 6500 for SEVERAL MINUTES on a dyno run. Yeah, right:rolleyes:

I'm guessing assclown of the year award now has a new candidate:D

hehe, i think that wasnt his friend who said that but him...but of course he was just exaggerating when he said minutes

as for your radiator rusting, they have some additives that turn your coolant a milky white color and protect against rusting, but they usually dont use it in the dealerships and throw the bottle away...but keep the tops because you get a dollar for each top, lol

[bigmansM]

actually "john in houston" that was mean that said that, and i am going to let that slide before this turns into a Dangerous thread. but during the "more advanced" tuning more like tec 3 style, all rpms are held for a few... maybe hours but i would say a "few" mins

[Balthazarr]

So he learned a little chemistry or thermodyn and now he can use the terms "specific heat" and "heat capacity".

There is more than one good reason that 100% H2O is not used to cool engines and they have been aptly pointed out.

[Hyperion]

Earlier in my first post I said that Antifreeze raises the freezing point.

That was a typo on my part, and I just want to clear that up. Antifreeze lowers the freezing point meaning that it has to be even colder for the liquid to freeze over. Sorry for the mix up.

[sevdawg13]

HEY GUYS, THIS IS THE "FREIND" THAT WAS REFERRED TO IN THE ORIGINAL POSTING. I DECIDED TO REPLY MYSELF, CAUSE I NOTICED SOME PEOPLE, John in Houston, NOT TO MENTION ANY NAMES, ARE BIG PRICKS WITH NO LIGIT ARGUMENTS, DONT YOU THINK JOHN. ANYWAY, I DO ACCEPT THE FACT THAT REGULAR TAP H20 MAY CAUSE SOME CORROSION PROBLEMS, BUT LIKE fast4d MENTIONED, WHAT THE HELL DO YOU GUYS EXPECT, AND DITILLED H20, OR DEIONIZED H20 CAN BE USED ALONG WITH SOME LUBRICATION (1/2 A CUP OF COOLANT CAN BE ADDED IF YOUR SO WORRIED ABOUT CORROSION). AND I WAS TALKING TO BIGMANSM KNOWING THAT HE LIVES IN AN AREA WHERE THE TEMPERATURE HASENT DROPPED DOWN BELOW FREEZING IN HIS LIFETIME, SO NO NEED TO WORRY ABOUT FREEZING. AS FOR THE R VALUE (HEAT INSULTION/TRANSFER VALUE) OF COOLANTS BEING HIGHER, THAT PART IS NOT TRUE. THOUGH THE BOILING POINT OF COOLANTS MIGHT BE HIGHER, IT TAKES LESS CALORIES TO RAISE THE TEMPERATURE TO THE BOILING POINT THAN IT WOULD TO RAISE THE TEMPERATURE OF WATER TO ITS LOWER, YET MORE RESISTANT BOILING POINT. H20 ALSO HAS EXCELLENT HEAT TRANSFERING PROPERTIES. IF ANYONE HAS ANY LIGIT ARGUMENTS UNLIKE THE POMPOUS PRICK John in Houston, PLEASE REPLY, I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THEM

[fast4d]

I agree with your points but STOP YELLING!

[dinomite]

This is really just a case of sevdawg13 wanting to sound smart by applying the simple thermodynamics that he was recently taught in high school chemistry. Yes, water does have a very high specific heat, much higher than that of the coolant we all add to it but that isn't the whole case. You absolutely need coolant to keep the block and cooling system components to keep from corroding. Using just water will allow said components to rust, period. You simply cannot get that entire system to a pure sanitary state in which the metal will not rust. Sure, it might work in Science Experiment Land where rope is inelastic, tables are frictionless and cows are spherical but it can't happen in the real world.

Don't be a high school dumbass.

[John in Houston]

Originally posted by bigmansM
actually "john in houston" that was mean that said that, and i am going to let that slide before this turns into a Dangerous thread....

Yeah... dangerous... m'kay :rolleyes: Who is Mean? Is there a 3rd person in your post? ;)


I DECIDED TO REPLY MYSELF, CAUSE I NOTICED SOME PEOPLE, John in Houston, NOT TO MENTION ANY NAMES, ARE BIG PRICKS WITH NO LIGIT ARGUMENTS, DONT YOU THINK JOHN

Oh... legit (spelling corrected for you) arguements? I mistakenly thought that if a poster (you or your friend) posted an intelligent question or comment, then it was supposed to be discussed. But, since neither you or your friend did.... well, I took the liberty of declaring you an 'Ass-Clown'. My guess is that I hit the bullseye on this one.

Now for water vs. coolant......

If you notice, most real racecars utilize straight water, H2O, either distilled or otherwise. Does this make it a better coolant? Or is it simply a matter of safety? If you follow racing, you'll see that coolant on the track is a major cause of accidents. As such, water (H20) is the required coolant of choice.

With that being said, is it the 'better' coolant. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If you live in a climate where weather extremes are not the norm (freezing / high heat) and your driving patterns are not described as other than normal, then water will work fine for you. You should most likely stick with distilled water as many of the corrosive contaminates are removed... but it will work.

On the topic of 'No'.... if you live in the extremes, then a coolant (ie: antifreeze) or water plus an additive would be the preferred method of cooling. These additives help raise the boiling point and lower the freezing point. Big issues if you live in the desert or in Alaska. Most of these additives / coolants also have anti-corrosives to them to help stave off corrosion in the coolant chambers and waterpump.

I hope this helps resolve your little issue. Sorry if I got your tampon strings in a knot over my first reply.:bawl

[SeattleE30///M3]

I think what he is trying to say is that water is better at dispersing heat than coolant. There are very few compounds that have the same waste dispersing ability of water. The coolant is actually not as good at "cooling" the radiator system, but does help lubricate the water pump and keep hoses in good condition.

If you live where you don't see FREEZING TEMPS, the best thing to use is water and Redline Water Wetter.

[sevdawg13]

thanx for the legit reply John, an explanation as such is what i was looking for. Though good point Seattle.

[bigmansM]

these threads crack me up, the only reason i posted is becuase Sev couldn't. i honestly have lost much respect for most people on this boad except the FI guys, i have been reading their "intelligent" remarks compared to the people that start fights over a technicallity.

As to John, that tampon joke has got to be the oldest one on these boards. No one cried just thought that u should be clear one who u call an "ass clown." Ill leave it at that...