Smoking !!!

[AquilaBMW]

I really hate to start a whole new thread on this car, but I need to get all possible thoughts, opinions and feedback and I know it gets tiresome to read the whole "Heidi" Diaries thread.

I had just had a great day with all the things sorted out on Heidi. I was in So cal and had just met with LouieD (Thanks Man - made it home). I started up the car and it blew smoke out the exhaust. It was whitish gray smoke. Louie checked the exhaust and noted quite a fair amount of moisture.

It stopped smoking once I drove it back to my hotel. Well, today while in LA... it started smoking again on the freeway. It was at times a nice billowing trail of white / gray smoke.... then it stopped. I decided to head back home asap. I left Los Angeles and had driven about 150 miles - just north of Santa Barbara when I noticed smoke in my mirrors. I pulled the freeway and examined it. When I stopped, the car's idle stumbled for a moment and then leveled out. However, it was definitely smoking out the exhaust. I was in the middle of nowhere and so decided to continue.

The smoke reduced significantly once I got back on the freeway. In San Luis Obispo (about an additional 100 miles), I had to stop for gas. Again, the car idled a little erractically when I pulled into the station. When I started it up... it now gave a huge cloud of smoke.... I mean HUGE! I pulled it into a parking lot and talked with a few people.... all conversations all the conversation seemed to suggest Piston rings, Blown Head Gasket, or unseated valves or bad valve seals, etc.

I checked the oil and it seemed low - not completely, but at about the first notch on the dip stick. I added 10W30 Shell oil to the car and carried on up north. The car smoked for the next 80 - 100 miles, not heavy once on the freeway, but still present.

It then seemed to stop again... I was doing 70 MPH all the way. When I reached Salinas (cooler temperatures) the car stopped smoking altogether. It ran fine with all the power pretty much there. Crazy thing is when I got home.... there no sign, no hint of smoking anywhere at all. Car was also idling fine at home.

Could the 80 - 90 degree heat in LA have contributed to this? Is the engine possibly dead? All feedback is greatly appreciated. I have come far with this car and don't feel like giving up yet. Especially after going through all the work to get it sorted out so far.

Thanks!

[e34moneypit]

see if the oil and coolant are mixing. if so, popped HG. but it doesn't really seem like that. it hasn't been overheated has it?

blown HG "smoke" is a thick white smoke, and it smells sickly sweet, just like coolant.

[AquilaBMW]

see if the oil and coolant are mixing. if so, popped HG. but it doesn't really seem like that. it hasn't been overheated has it?

blown HG "smoke" is a thick white smoke, and it smells sickly sweet, just like coolant.

The car did not over heat even once - not even in LA which was between 80 - 90 degrees in stand still traffic. Smoke smells like burning or burnt oil... nothing sweet about it.

[SC David]

The intermittency of it is odd. Sounds like it was smoking more when the car was under stress, aka the mountain passes on 101 getting out of San Luis Obispo, and the heat + traffic of LA?

[AquilaBMW]

The intermittency of it is odd. Sounds like it was smoking more when the car was under stress, aka the mountain passes on 101 getting out of San Luis Obispo, and the heat + traffic of LA?

That sounds about right. However, when it smoked in LA, it was on the 170 Freeway when it started, which is pretty flat. But it also smoked a couple of times on start up.

[skylinergtr]

check under the oil cap, and at the bottom of the dipstick. Any chocolate milk oil? that indicates oil and coolant mixture (aka a blown headgasket). Otherwise if you saw black smoke, it might have been carbon that was blown out from the exhaust if you really stepped on it. It could also indicate faulty o2 sensors because i was getting some smoke from my car when my o2 sensors became faulty. Blue smoke indicates oil consumption. Intake gaskets & PCV can cause the car to smoke and consume oil (i believe those are on your to-do list?). 10w-30 oil seems too thin for a motor like the m60 (especially with some mileage). I suggest a good 5w-40 synthetic or 15w-40 conventional. Hopefully it's nothing serious. Best of Luck.

[AquilaBMW]

check under the oil cap, and at the bottom of the dipstick. Any chocolate milk oil? that indicates oil and coolant mixture (aka a blown headgasket). Otherwise if you saw black smoke, it might have been carbon that was blown out from the exhaust if you really stepped on it. It could also indicate faulty o2 sensors because i was getting some smoke from my car when my o2 sensors became faulty. Blue smoke indicates oil consumption. Intake gaskets & PCV can cause the car to smoke and consume oil (i believe those are on your to-do list?). 10w-30 oil seems too thin for a motor like the m60 (especially with some mileage). I suggest a good 5w-40 synthetic or 15w-40 conventional. Hopefully it's nothing serious. Best of Luck.

I checked the dipstick a number of times, and there was no sludge like oil. Oil actually smelt sufficiently burnt. I have the new O2 sensors ready, and just got a spare intake manifold to rebuild with a new PCV and Intake Gaskets. I was getting that funny noise at the back of the engine some other owners mentioned, so I am wondering it that contributed. The car did not loose any power other than the occasional stumbled on cruise control. I used the only oil I could find where I was.... it do intend to change it to like full synthetic. If bad gaskets, PCV / ICV and such can cause the car to smoke and burn oil ... those are suspects I would definitely add to my list. The smoke as whitish gray. Definitely not black... and it smoked on start up and at real low relaxed speeds.

[skylinergtr]

I checked the dipstick a number of times, and there was no sludge like oil. Oil actually smelt sufficiently burnt. I have the new O2 sensors ready, and just got a spare intake manifold to rebuild with a new PCV and Intake Gaskets. I was getting that funny noise at the back of the engine some other owners mentioned, so I am wondering it that contributed. The car did not loose any power other than the occasional stumbled on cruise control. I used the only oil I could find where I was.... it do intend to change it to like full synthetic. If bad gaskets, PCV / ICV and such can cause the car to smoke and burn oil ... those are suspects I would definitely add to my list. The smoke as whitish gray. Definitely not black... and it smoked on start up and at real low relaxed speeds.

never really seen whitish/grayish smoke to determine what it is. If everything seems normal it could be just you gave the car a good run for it. It's an automatic, has some mileage on it, and it was originally in japan (lots of idling). It could just be carbon build up that's been released through the exhaust. Did you step on it at all?

[garrettpier]

MY brother an I expiereinced a similar problem in his E21. It has a tiny m10 but the symptoms were the same. It turned out that the Head gasket had a tiny tear in it and coolant was getting into one cylinder. The tell tale is one clean spark plug. Also if you put your hand infront of the exhaust condensation will built and drip.

[Binjammin]

PCV. You should have a diary thread, and the mods should merge all your threads into that.

[Sir Montalbon]

PCV.

This. Your symptoms sound exactly like the ones I had before replacing my PCV.

Try this test.... from a stop, take a hard left turn, preferably onto a hill, and get on the gas kinda hard. If you hear a rattling followed by a smoke screen, it is most porbably your PCV.

[AquilaBMW]

Thanks for the feedback guys - really appreciate it.

The PCV makes sense to even my mechanically challenged mind as the idle was also erratic during this events.

Anyone know the Part Number for the PCV? Got maybe a RealOEM diagram of it and the best place to buy one? Also... how difficult is it to replace?

All in all... the car performed magnificently, all things considered.

[gilby]

Mike, check if you have a vacuum leak at the pcv valve hoses that might be causing your eratic idle sometimes or that your pcv valve could be clogged creating too much pressure and also causing your smoke and eratic idle. just a hunch. This pcv valves are one way valves.

[ShapeShifter]

Can't you go to realoem and search for the part number and find the diagram yourself?
Just say'in

[ESSSupreme]

Could be stuck plastic bag/etc on your exhaust.

[AquilaBMW]

Mike, check if you have a vacuum leak at the pcv valve hoses that might be causing your eratic idle sometimes or that your pcv valve could be clogged creating too much pressure and also causing your smoke and eratic idle. just a hunch. This pcv valves are one way valves.

I will get to it probably Saturday. I think it is possible the PCV is dead or something - not sure yet. Seems all fingers point in that direction though. Any ideas what can cause PCV's to clog up? Or is it just something that happens over time.


Could be stuck plastic bag/etc on your exhaust.

Seriously?

[ESSSupreme]

Seriously?

Yes seriously.


I think it is possible the PCV is dead or something - not sure yet.

Is your car showing poor idle now? If not your PCV is probably OK.

[KyleCleveland]

I have a spare PCV valve in Napa if interested. If you happen up this way I'll hand it over for $10 bucks and I can have the gasket that needs replacement ordered (just reimburse me at cost) if you want to pick them all up.

I replaced mine last winter with only a single flashlight to see by (Inside garage, power went out 5 minutes into the job) and didn't have a very difficult time.

[ESSSupreme]

I have a spare PCV valve in Napa if interested. If you happen up this way I'll hand it over for $10 bucks and I can have the gasket that needs replacement ordered (just reimburse me at cost) if you want to pick them all up.

I replaced mine last winter with only a single flashlight to see by (Inside garage, power went out 5 minutes into the job) and didn't have a very difficult time.

I found that little mirrors can help alot when getting bottom bolts out :shifty

[KyleCleveland]

I found that little mirrors can help alot when getting bottom bolts out :shifty

But I only have 2 hands. I did 50% of that job by feel alone.

[ESSSupreme]

But I only have 2 hands. I did 50% of that job by feel alone.

Nice, one of the bottom bolts got stripped it was a PITA for me

[Sir Montalbon]

Like others said, there is a pretty good chance that you will strip those bolts while trying to remove the PCV. I'd give it a shot, but once they strip, you'll probably have to remove the entire intake to get it off.

There are a few benefits to this though...
1. It is much easier to work with out of the car
2. You can replace the original, easily stripped, torx bolts with hex heads
3. You were already going to redo your intake, now you have no excuse not to ;)

[ross1]

PCV. You should have a diary thread, and the mods should merge all your threads into that.

^^^
Determine it you are getting smoke or steam. If smoke about the only thing that will be intermittant would be the PCV.
I had one that had puddled oil in the intake and upon a long hard turn it started to smoke like a mother and continued to for quite a while then cleared right up. Some nervous moments since the car was being driven VERY hard at the time but that's all it was.

[AquilaBMW]

I have a spare PCV valve in Napa if interested. If you happen up this way I'll hand it over for $10 bucks and I can have the gasket that needs replacement ordered (just reimburse me at cost) if you want to pick them all up.

I replaced mine last winter with only a single flashlight to see by (Inside garage, power went out 5 minutes into the job) and didn't have a very difficult time.

I actually have a spare PCV on an intake I am rebuilding at the moment. But, I don't want to take it out of that one. I also have a mind like a NASA engineer and love redundancy, so I will take you up on your offer - maybe by Saturday? It's always nice to meet other BFC members anyway.... I wonder if Maxsteel is available, maybe we can have a small E34 get together? I will pm you my number.


I found that little mirrors can help alot when getting bottom bolts out :shifty

I have mirrors :D


Like others said, there is a pretty good chance that you will strip those bolts while trying to remove the PCV. I'd give it a shot, but once they strip, you'll probably have to remove the entire intake to get it off.

There are a few benefits to this though...
1. It is much easier to work with out of the car
2. You can replace the original, easily stripped, torx bolts with hex heads
3. You were already going to redo your intake, now you have no excuse not to ;)

I most certainly will be working on my intake manifold - I am ordering the new gaskets as we speak and I will also be cleaning it out completely. Where can I get the replacement bolts from? Does anyone know what size torx bolt that is? Usually BMW uses 12mm or 13mm there - I have a 13mm one, but the area is tight. Are there curved torx drivers availlable I wonder?


^^^
Determine it you are getting smoke or steam. If smoke about the only thing that will be intermittant would be the PCV.
I had one that had puddled oil in the intake and upon a long hard turn it started to smoke like a mother and continued to for quite a while then cleared right up. Some nervous moments since the car was being driven VERY hard at the time but that's all it was.

Definately getting smoke - no water. I actually suffered the exact same symptons you are mentioning.... long hard drive, and then smoke and then it cleared up itself.

[AquilaBMW]

Well, after another two days of acting normal and okay, Heidi started smoking AGAIN! :(

It was pretty bad on the freeway yesterday - I left a huge smoke trail. I pulled over and was later able to nurse the car home doing 50 MPH all the way. Again... it stopped smoking after a while. I checked the oil level and it was not low enough to cause any alarm, the temperatures stayed constant and the car did not over heat. The temperature actually did not go beyond the 1/2 way mark.

I read some other posts and threads where it was indicated that this situation occurred after loaded Left Turns.... weird, I made a right sweeping turn onto the freeway when this occurred again - so I don't know if that theory holds water.

I am now pretty sure it is something like the PCV that is causing this, so the time has come when I have to open Heidi up and fix this thing. I got ridiculous quotes from dealers and shops - one as high as $2400 to fix everything. I don't mind spending that kind of money on the car, but not for stuff I can fix myself - which other members here have fixed also.

So, starting this weekend, I am going to be taking off the intake manifold and having a go at this. Kyle - thanks for the offer of the PCV, but I am just going to get a new one while I am at it. This one is supposedly barely a year old and does not have even 100K miles on it and has already gone bad.

While I am at it, can you guys please recommend what other things should be replaced besides the intake gaskets, the PCV gasket. Where can I get injector gaskets or rubber seals, etc.?

Also, can anyone tell me what screws or bolts they used to replace the T bolts on the Manifold and the PCV? Their length, thread and diameter would be a great help.

[jab1111]

I have these same symptoms apparently. My idle is quite rough.

I also have an exhaust leak though, as the shop that fixed up my car told me this as I picked it up:confused(Why they didnt address it is beyond me).

Would an exhaust leak or the PCV cause a slight hesitation at WOT?

[KyleCleveland]

So the plate is used, I thought it wasn't working but ended up not being faulty at all. The gasket that fits between the plate and the intake manifold was very brittle though. That was causing my issues.

I can meet up Saturday prior to 2:30pm, I have to work at 3:30 though. Let me know asap if you want the plate and the gasket so I can have it available to you by Saturday. I'm not sure of the price of the gasket but it shouldn't add much more than then $10 I want for the PCV plate.

You can get ahold of me here, email, or text message. I'm available at almost all times of the day.




As it turns out, I won't be able to make it Saturday as I am hosting an event for the USA World Cup match.

I do want it though, so please hold on to it for me if you can. We can arrange another day to meet up - you are not far away.

Cheers,

Michael


And the $8.29 I just paid for a gasket I don't need?

[K Fox]

About replacement bolts - the easiest way to get the right sizes is to take the intake apart and get the PCV plate off, then decide which bolts you want to replace (usually the plate bolts). Take the old bolts with you and go to one of the local hardware stores like Home Depot, McGuckins, ect. I actually prefer Ace for things like bolts and screws, as they usually have a lot (at least around here). Regardless, if you have the old bolts with you you can make sure you get the right thread pitch and size, as well as the right lengths. Makes life so much easier. :) Good luck!!

Fox

[jab1111]

And the $8.29 I just paid for a gasket I don't need?


I'll take it if he doesn't want it.

[AquilaBMW]

If it requires shipping, I will cover it for you Jab... or I will still buy it from you Kyle. I try to keep my word as much as possible.

[jab1111]

If it requires shipping, I will cover it for you Jab... or I will still buy it from you Kyle. I try to keep my word as much as possible.

No worries. If Kyle lets me go get it from him, I'd like him to see my car so he could maybe give me advice on a few things, in terms of what I want to do to my car.

[AquilaBMW]

No worries. If Kyle lets me go get it from him, I'd like him to see my car so he could maybe give me advice on a few things, in terms of what I want to do to my car.

Why don't we all have a mini - meet, Starbucks are on me.


UPDATE: Heidi HAD to go into the shop. I will keep you updated. Wish me luck...

[KyleCleveland]

I'm free early Saturdays or almost any Sunday. Where in NorCal are you? I feel like I've asked this before.

[AquilaBMW]

I'm free early Saturdays or almost any Sunday. Where in NorCal are you? I feel like I've asked this before.

I am in SFO. Free usually Saturday afternoons or Sundays between 1 - 6 PM.

[KyleCleveland]

Jab is from Eureka, and when I had asked him that he mentioned he needed to go to Santa Rosa (30 min north of me) eventually and would be down to meet up sometime.

Lets pick a Sunday and meet at this great burger joint in Cotati. (literally right off 101) It's called Mike's at the Crossroads.

I have BruinBimmer's and MaxSteel's numbers so I can give them a buzz if this will pan out.

[AquilaBMW]

Jab is from Eureka, and when I had asked him that he mentioned he needed to go to Santa Rosa (30 min north of me) eventually and would be down to meet up sometime.

Lets pick a Sunday and meet at this great burger joint in Cotati. (literally right off 101) It's called Mike's at the Crossroads.

I have BruinBimmer's and MaxSteel's numbers so I can give them a buzz if this will pan out.

Let's git 'er done. I bought springs from Bruin and I believe I got my cup holder from Max - met him in Marin? As long as the Lady (Heidi) is running... I can make it out there.

[KyleCleveland]

Pick a date. Saturday I have to be done before 2pm. Sunday I'm free.

[AquilaBMW]

Pick a date. Saturday I have to be done before 2pm. Sunday I'm free.

I can do a Sunday afternoon, just need to be back in the city by 7 PM.

[jab1111]

Why don't we all have a mini - meet, Starbucks are on me.


UPDATE: Heidi HAD to go into the shop. I will keep you updated. Wish me luck...

My car went in too:( This shop that did a bunch of work after I bought it, sure didn't go over everything like they said, they missed a ton of problems.


Jab is from Eureka, and when I had asked him that he mentioned he needed to go to Santa Rosa (30 min north of me) eventually and would be down to meet up sometime.

Lets pick a Sunday and meet at this great burger joint in Cotati. (literally right off 101) It's called Mike's at the Crossroads.

I have BruinBimmer's and MaxSteel's numbers so I can give them a buzz if this will pan out.

Isn't this Sunday 4th of July? Or are you talking about the Sunday after?

I might actually be down there on the 4th. After that I have to go to St.Louis for a week or two.

Definitely would like to do it sometime soon though.

[AquilaBMW]

IF they finish Heidi today, I can do this Sunday - 4th or not.

Here is my Shop tale so far:

New Day... New Drama.

So, what with all the recent smoking with Heidi, I decided it was time to change the PCV, intake manifold gaskets and the lot. However, time and space are always against me and I figured this was something I had better get done right away.

So.... I was referred to a shop that seemed to have fair prices. They have been around for over 15 years and supposedly know their stuff.

We agreed to do the whole Intake Manifold, including all gaskets, the PCV, cleaning the manifold, replacing all four knock sensors, plugs, Svc II, etc. This was to be done for under $1K. Seemed fair enough to bring Heidi up to better condition.

Well.... I just checked in on the car, and now I was told they had to remove the Water Pump to get to the pipes that sit above the intake pan to replace it and it's gasket. I never heard any having to remove the water pump just to do this. Now I am concerned. Seems they did not know what was involved in this job.... :eek:. I am very scared at this point.

I think I am going to be asking to see my old parts and such when I go back for the car. Hope this does not become a nightmare. Sheesh! Why can't this shyte just be simple!

As of ten minutes ago, add a new tensioner / pulley, new water pump, gaskets, belts, and we are fast approaching a bank breaking bill... :eek::(

[KyleCleveland]

I'm free on the 4th.

[AquilaBMW]

I'm free on the 4th.

If the car is done, I can roll out.

[5tre5i]

If I had a job or money, I'd love to join in, never been to a bimmer meet lol

Should'a replaced them on your own lol, way cheaper than the over 1k you'll be spending :P

[Grim Reaper]

Should'a replaced them on your own lol, way cheaper than the over 1k you'll be spending :P

+1

Should have used all the time posting and instead scheduled a wrenchfest and learn to diy all this from a local BMW enthusiast who if very familiar with a wrench. You could have saved yourself a ton of $$$ and all these headaches. This stuff is not difficult at all.

[jab1111]

If I had a job or money, I'd love to join in, never been to a bimmer meet lol

Should'a replaced them on your own lol, way cheaper than the over 1k you'll be spending :P

What would you charge to do this job and a valve gasket for me?

I would do the job with you if that is possible too.

EDIT: You don't need money or a job to sit around and chat cars with some guys from a forum.


+1

Should have used all the time posting and instead scheduled a wrenchfest and learn to diy all this from a local BMW enthusiast who if very familiar with a wrench. You could have saved yourself a ton of $$$ and all these headaches. This stuff is not difficult at all.

While all that is true, the smart guys kinda have to initiate the wrenchfest or else the less knowledgeable would feel like moochers I think.

[KyleCleveland]

Be aware: My brain is better at mechanic work than my hands are. Do not let me anywhere near a part that has 15+ year old plastic clips. They never seem to survive.

I also don't have time to get dirty. My days 'free' are spent looking after my baby.

That said, 1pm on July 4th? http://www.mikesatthecrossroads.com

[5tre5i]

What would you charge to do this job and a valve gasket for me?

I would do the job with you if that is possible too.

EDIT: You don't need money or a job to sit around and chat cars with some guys from a forum.



I'd help at most, at your place lol, I've got a manager that bitches when me or the neighbors work on our cars.

I do need money actually, unless I can barter with the gas station attendant, I need money to pay for it, which means I need a job so I can make that money :stickoutt

[jab1111]

I'd help at most, at your place lol, I've got a manager that bitches when me or the neighbors work on our cars.

I do need money actually, unless I can barter with the gas station attendant, I need money to pay for it, which means I need a job so I can make that money :stickoutt

I'm too far away for that(eureka), but if you figure something out, let me know. I'd love to learn.

[KyleCleveland]

I'm too far away for that(eureka), but if you figure something out, let me know. I'd love to learn.

You able to make it to Cotati on Sunday? PM me a name/phone number if you can.

Aquila: Are we good for Sunday? Did you get the car back? I was able to return that gasket with no restocking fee. We're in the clear there.

[jab1111]

You able to make it to Cotati on Sunday? PM me a name/phone number if you can.

Aquila: Are we good for Sunday? Did you get the car back? I was able to return that gasket with no restocking fee. We're in the clear there.

Not sure on Sunday, I am doubtful. I have been a recluse as of late, I think I need to be partying on Sunday up here. I can make it your way at some point though. Sorry to kinda initiate it. I will still drop by and get that part.

[AquilaBMW]

You able to make it to Cotati on Sunday? PM me a name/phone number if you can.

Aquila: Are we good for Sunday? Did you get the car back? I was able to return that gasket with no restocking fee. We're in the clear there.

Hey Man - I am good for Sunday, I can make it there around 2 PM or so, but need to be back in the city by 7PM. Let me know if we are on. Glad to hear you were able to return the part.

[KyleCleveland]

I think it's just us then unless Jab shows up. Bruin is busy and Maxsteel didn't respond to my text.

[AquilaBMW]

I think it's just us then unless Jab shows up. Bruin is busy and Maxsteel didn't respond to my text.

So be it... :buttrock

[jab1111]

damn.....

[jel]

Michael, It's great to see the car coming along. You'll really be in love with her on this trip enjoying the benefits of her recent shop refurb. Watch the speedo or you'll be cruising well above 100 mph. Mike's looks like a great joint for an Independence Day burger & brew.

[5tre5i]

Well I just got a job yesterday at a pizza shop, finally, so cash is coming in, and I'll be able to do something for next time at least...unless I get paid today for yesterdays work :D

[KyleCleveland]

Damn, now I have to wash my car. You should come 5trei5. I bet you can get Aquila to spot you $10 bucks. :stickoutt

Aquila, it's me you and my daughter. Maybe you should make an invite thread for everyone else in the area. When I do that nobody ever responds. :(

[5tre5i]

lol not going out yet, the 535 needs a major tune up, first pay check is going to make sure of that

[AquilaBMW]

Damn, now I have to wash my car. You should come 5trei5. I bet you can get Aquila to spot you $10 bucks. :stickoutt

Aquila, it's me you and my daughter. Maybe you should make an invite thread for everyone else in the area. When I do that nobody ever responds. :(

Too late for a thread. Guess it's just the three of us for July 4th Burgers.:buttrock


Damn, now I have to wash my car. You should come 5trei5. I bet you can get Aquila to spot you $10 bucks. :stickoutt

Aquila, it's me you and my daughter. Maybe you should make an invite thread for everyone else in the area. When I do that nobody ever responds. :(


Michael, It's great to see the car coming along. You'll really be in love with her on this trip enjoying the benefits of her recent shop refurb. Watch the speedo or you'll be cruising well above 100 mph. Mike's looks like a great joint for an Independence Day burger & brew.

Thanks man... much appreciated. The car is coming along slowly. There are a couple more nice things lined up for it. However, next thing on the Immediate To Do List is the suspension - control arm, etc.