yet another nail in runflat thread

[TwinTurboBMW]

I woke up this morning to a nail in the runflat. The pressure was at 27 psi, and book says it should be a 35 psi. Rear passenger tire. Tires have 8k miles, original factory tires. I plan to take it to a garage/gas station over lunch to get a plug.

Any recommendations before I do so from some people who have done this?

I know it's not recommended by BMW.

EDIT:

Just got it plugged. No issues with the shop doing it, no issues after they did it.

Money well spent.

[mryakan]

If your pressure never went below 24 or so, then you should be ok. The worry is that when the pressure drops below that and you drive on them, the sidewalls may get compromised due to the extra heat and there is no way to inspect for such damage. Thus manufacturers recommend against fixing runflats. In your case, it seems you are ok.

[samger2]

I would not trust it if you in fact did just get a "plug"...now if by "plug" you mean they dismounted the tire, inspected it for internal damage, then used a patch plug combo from the inside out...then yes, you're fine.

If you mean they just used a rope plug, then you have no clue what kind of damage may have been done to the interior of the tire...hence the reason BMW doesn't recommend repairing runflats.

[TwinTurboBMW]

I would not trust it if you in fact did just get a "plug"...now if by "plug" you mean they dismounted the tire, inspected it for internal damage, then used a patch plug combo from the inside out...then yes, you're fine.

If you mean they just used a rope plug, then you have no clue what kind of damage may have been done to the interior of the tire...hence the reason BMW doesn't recommend repairing runflats.

You obviously don't understand the mechanics behind a OEM BMW runflat tire do you? They have a stronger sidewall when compared to regular tires, hence they can be run on flat or no air, but when doing so, the tire loses its integrity, or is compromised as stated by Mryakan. This is why BMW doesn't recommend it since the tire can be severly damaged, if driven on flat. In both cases, neither happened as the tire held air, and will continue to hold air with the plug. There is no internal layer, or resealant as some run flats have. The "damage" you state that happens when a plug was placed into the tire doesn't matter since the tire is identical on the tread run flat vs non runflat.

See links for more information:

"Self-Supporting
Self-supporting tires feature a stiffer internal construction, which is capable of temporarily carrying the weight of the vehicle, even after the tire has lost all air pressure. To provide "self-supporting" capability, these tires typically attach rubber inserts next to or between layers of heat-resistant cord in their sidewalls to help prevent breaking the reinforcing cords in the event of loss of air pressure. They also feature specialized beads that allow the tire to firmly grip current Original Equipment and aftermarket wheels even in the event of air loss. Because self-supporting tires are so good at masking the traditional loss-of-air symptoms that accompany a flat tire, they require a tire pressure monitoring system to alert the driver that they have lost air pressure. Without such a system, the driver may not notice underinflation and may inadvertently cause additional tire damage by failing to inflate or repair the tire at the first opportunity. Typically, self-supporting tires maintain vehicle mobility for 50 miles at speeds up to 55 mph.
Examples: Bridgestone RFT (Run Flat Tire), Dunlop DSST (Dunlop Self-Supporting Technology) and ROF (Run On Flat), Firestone RFT (Run Flat Tire), Goodyear EMT (Extended Mobility Technology) and ROF (Run On Flat), Kumho XRP, Michelin ZP (Zero Pressure), Pirelli RFT (Run Flat Technology) and Yokohama Run Flat and ZPS (Zero Pressure System)."

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=56


"Self-supporting
Self-supporting run flat tires are fairly common on light trucks and passenger cars and typically provide for the vehicle to drive for 50 miles at around 50 miles per hour. However, if the tires are treated to this kind of punishment, they may still be irreparably damaged in the process. In addition, if the tire is punctured in the sidewall or at the edge of the tread, repair may be impossible or unsafe."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run-flat_tire

[mryakan]

I agree with samger2 on the plug vs patch issue. Plugs are highly discouraged by all tire manufacturers these days since they have a high failure rate/potential. Patches on the inside are the only way to go if you want to be safe. Also, regardless of the construction of the tire sidewalls (runflat or not), it is essential to inspect a puncture from the inside. Sometimes the damage is not apparent on the outside. Runflats and non runflats don't differ much when it comes to the tread section where it is the only are where punctures are fixable.
I believe samger2 speaks from years of experience dealing with tires and I would not discount his advice.

[TwinTurboBMW]

I agree with samger2 on the plug vs patch issue. Plugs are highly discouraged by all tire manufacturers these days since they have a high failure rate. Patches on the inside are the only way to go. And also regardless of the construction of the tire, it is essential to inspect a puncture from the inside. Sometimes the damage is not apparent on the outside.
I believe samger2 speaks from years of experience dealing with tires and I would not discount his advice.

I agree a patch is 100 times better than a plug, if that is what samger2 is pointing out, I agree with him. But if samger2 is trying to tell me because it's a RFT it can only be patched, I disagree.

I also have rode on plugs on a few cars and it lasts long enough for me to replace the tire when the tread wears low enough to warrant buying a new tire.

I've never had a plug fail.

[STEALTHYZ4]

plugs=temp. fix
patch=perm. fix
tires should be unmounted to check for internal damage that may have occurred while run flat.
these are all just safety precautions-not set in stone rules.

[samger2]

You obviously don't understand the mechanics behind a OEM BMW runflat tire do you? They have a stronger sidewall when compared to regular tires, hence they can be run on flat or no air, but when doing so, the tire loses its integrity, or is compromised as stated by Mryakan. This is why BMW doesn't recommend it since the tire can be severly damaged, if driven on flat. In both cases, neither happened as the tire held air, and will continue to hold air with the plug. There is no internal layer, or resealant as some run flats have. The "damage" you state that happens when a plug was placed into the tire doesn't matter since the tire is identical on the tread run flat vs non runflat.

See links for more information:

"Self-Supporting
Self-supporting tires feature a stiffer internal construction, which is capable of temporarily carrying the weight of the vehicle, even after the tire has lost all air pressure. To provide "self-supporting" capability, these tires typically attach rubber inserts next to or between layers of heat-resistant cord in their sidewalls to help prevent breaking the reinforcing cords in the event of loss of air pressure. They also feature specialized beads that allow the tire to firmly grip current Original Equipment and aftermarket wheels even in the event of air loss. Because self-supporting tires are so good at masking the traditional loss-of-air symptoms that accompany a flat tire, they require a tire pressure monitoring system to alert the driver that they have lost air pressure. Without such a system, the driver may not notice underinflation and may inadvertently cause additional tire damage by failing to inflate or repair the tire at the first opportunity. Typically, self-supporting tires maintain vehicle mobility for 50 miles at speeds up to 55 mph.
Examples: Bridgestone RFT (Run Flat Tire), Dunlop DSST (Dunlop Self-Supporting Technology) and ROF (Run On Flat), Firestone RFT (Run Flat Tire), Goodyear EMT (Extended Mobility Technology) and ROF (Run On Flat), Kumho XRP, Michelin ZP (Zero Pressure), Pirelli RFT (Run Flat Technology) and Yokohama Run Flat and ZPS (Zero Pressure System)."

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=56


"Self-supporting
Self-supporting run flat tires are fairly common on light trucks and passenger cars and typically provide for the vehicle to drive for 50 miles at around 50 miles per hour. However, if the tires are treated to this kind of punishment, they may still be irreparably damaged in the process. In addition, if the tire is punctured in the sidewall or at the edge of the tread, repair may be impossible or unsafe."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run-flat_tire

Woah...hold on dude...I've worked for BMW for 5.5 years and been selling tires since before runflats even came out. I FULLY understand a BMW runflat tire.

Yes, the tire has self supporting technology and a stronger sidewall...I am by NO means referring to damage occuring due to the plug itself...I'm referring to the damage the tire MAY have incurred due to being run on flat...and if a plug was used IN PLACE of an internal patch where the tire was not dismounted to inspect for damage, then by ALL MEANS there could be internal damage that the OP has no clue about since someone blindly put a plug in the tire without proper procedure or inspection.


I agree a patch is 100 times better than a plug, if that is what samger2 is pointing out, I agree with him. But if samger2 is trying to tell me because it's a RFT it can only be patched, I disagree.

I also have rode on plugs on a few cars and it lasts long enough for me to replace the tire when the tread wears low enough to warrant buying a new tire.

I've never had a plug fail.

And no...I'm not telling you that it can't be repaired due to it being a runflat...yes if PROPERLY DONE a runflat can in fact be repaired...but BMW doesn't want the responsibility of assuming all their customers will in fact have it fully inspected and repaired properly...thus they make the blanket statement that a runflat cannot be repaired. And until fairly recently Bridgestone actually made the same claim in their literature that they didn't recommend it either...however the last time I read online info from Bridgestone's website they have changed their stance and actually say it's ok to repair it...if AGAIN...it's done properly and thoroughly inspected.

[mryakan]

I agree a patch is 100 times better than a plug, if that is what samger2 is pointing out, I agree with him. But if samger2 is trying to tell me because it's a RFT it can only be patched, I disagree.

I also have rode on plugs on a few cars and it lasts long enough for me to replace the tire when the tread wears low enough to warrant buying a new tire.

I've never had a plug fail.
You can always play the odds, but with so much riding on your tires (literally), I would not risk it. Personally, the way I drive agressively around corners and at high speeds, I would never take the risk. It is just not worth it to save a few bucks. Sure it is an extra safety measure, but so is putting the seatbelt on. When was the last time you needed your seatbelt! Hopefully never, but are you willing to risk it and play the odds!

[TwinTurboBMW]

plugs=temp. fix
patch=perm. fix
tires should be unmounted to check for internal damage that may have occurred while run flat.

these are all just safety precautions-not set in stone rules.

While I am not going to argue that a patch is better than a plug and vice versa, a plug is by no means a temp. fix. Remember there was a time when only plugs were used. Plugs have actually gotten a lot better since radial tires have been the norm, ie self-vulcanizing. and for a simple nail or screw, a plug is an inexpensive fix if the tire can still hold air. As mine was able to do. I had 25-27 psi on the reader before I noticed it. It was by no means FLAT and such, not driven on flat.



YI'm referring to the damage the tire MAY have incurred due to being run on flat...and if a plug was used IN PLACE of an internal patch where the tire was not dismounted to inspect for damage, then by ALL MEANS there could be internal damage that the OP has no clue about since someone blindly put a plug in the tire without proper procedure or inspection.



And no...I'm not telling you that it can't be repaired due to it being a runflat...yes if PROPERLY DONE a runflat can in fact be repaired...

My tire wasn't flat, pretty sure I explained that.


You can always play the odds, but with so much riding on your tires (literally), I would not risk it. Personally, the way I drive agressively around corners and at high speeds, I would never take the risk. It is just not worth it to save a few bucks. Sure it is an extra safety measure, but so is putting the seatbelt on. When was the last time you needed your seatbelt! Hopefully never, but are you willing to risk it and play the odds!

play the odds? Risk, that's a little much.

again, remember there was a time when patches didn't exist. And plugs were the only way to repair a tire. Yes, a patch is better, I am not arguing that, but you can repair a tire with a plug. It's funny how your story changes from "in your case you're fine", to "I wouldn't take on that risk."

[mryakan]

While I am not going to argue that a patch is better than a plug and vice versa, a plug is by no means a temp. fix. Remember there was a time when only plugs were used. Plugs have actually gotten a lot better since radial tires have been the norm, ie self-vulcanizing. and for a simple nail or screw, a plug is an inexpensive fix if the tire can still hold air. As mine was able to do. I had 25-27 psi on the reader before I noticed it. It was by no means FLAT and such, not driven on flat.

My tire wasn't flat, pretty sure I explained that.

play the odds? Risk, that's a little much.

again, remember there was a time when patches didn't exist. And plugs were the only way to repair a tire. Yes, a patch is better, I am not arguing that, but you can repair a tire with a plug.

Yeah I also remember (or more accurately read about) a time when seatbelts didn`t exist and many many people died because of that, then someone clever thought let`s try and have less people killed. It is called evolution, and it is for the better. But hey, if you don`t care about your own safety, I don`t care either as long as you don`t crash into someone and hurt them. A tire blowout at speed is a scary thing and even professional race car drivers crash sometimes due to it.



It's funny how your story changes from "in your case you're fine", to "I wouldn't take on that risk."
Actually I missed the plug part at first until samger2 brought it up, I assumed you patched it properly. Look up my previous posts on this section, I have consistently recommended against plugs. Go ahead do a search and prove me wrong, not that you can.

[TwinTurboBMW]

Yeah I also remember (or more accurately read about) a time when seatbelts didn`t exist and many many people died because of that, then someone clever thought let`s try and have less people killed. It is called evolution, and it is for the better. But hey, if you don`t care about your own safety, I don`t care either as long as you don`t crash into someone and hurt them. A tire blowout at speed is a scary thing and even professional race car drivers crash sometimes due to it.


Actually I missed the plug part at first until samger2 brought it up, I assumed you patched it properly. Look up my previous posts on this section, I have consistently recommended against plugs. Go ahead do a search and prove me wrong, not that you can.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare a plug to not wearing a seatbelt. A more accurate comparision would be driving on a flat tire and filling air in it daily, but continuing to drive letting air out.

It's not like there was something prior to a seatbelt, like say a rope. It was seatbelt or no seatbelt. The plug is a fix to a flat tire in this case your seatbelt analogy. A patch happens to be better than a plug, in your analogy maybe a 3way harness seatbelt is more accurate (but how many of us drive with that kind of seatbelt?), but a plug has also been improved since the first time they have been out. You know what's better than a patch? A new tire. It goes on and on. Why not just argue a new tire if you want to talk about safety?

[samger2]

To the OP...why do you come to this forum and ask questions of the experts around you...then when you don't like the answers try to insult our intelligence and experience?

Those of us giving you recommendations are doing this because we have years of experience in the industry or with these particular vehicles or technologies. As Mryakan has stated, if you choose not to err on the side of caution, that's your own choice. But if you don't care about what we have to say and you want to challenge our knowledge and expertise...then why post your question at all?

[STEALTHYZ4]

To the OP...why do you come to this forum and ask questions of the experts around you...then when you don't like the answers try to insult our intelligence and experience?

Those of us giving you recommendations are doing so because we have years of experience in the industry or with these particular vehicles or technologies. As Mryakan has stated, if you choose not to err on the side of caution, that's your own choice. But if you don't care about what we have to say and you want to challenge our knowledge and expertise...then why post your question at all?
I did not come on here to debate the merits of plug vs patch.Only to give informational support.I only gave recommendations that i myself would follow,and do follow.If i gave recommendations that i do not follow myself,then how could i give them to others in good faith,and not worry about their safety? What if somebody was hurt/died from your post? I just try to give the best advice i have,and my experiences dealing with a particular situation!

[samger2]

I did not come on here to debate the merits of plug vs patch.Only to give informational support.I only gave recommendations that i myself would follow,and do follow.If i gave recommendations that i do not follow myself,then how could i give them to others in good faith,and not worry about their safety? What if somebody was hurt/died from your post? I just try to give the best advice i have,and my experiences dealing with a particular situation!

My apologies if you thought my post was aimed at you...by no means was it! I agree with what you said! My post was toward the original creator of the thread...he created a thread asking our advice...you, Myrakan and myself have all given him good advice based upon our experience and he's making it a point to argue us and question our knowledge.

So I'm on your side my friend!

[STEALTHYZ4]

My apologies if you thought my post was aimed at you...by no means was it! I agree with what you said! My post was toward the original creator of the thread...he created a thread asking our advice...you, Myrakan and myself have all given him good advice based upon our experience and he's making it a point to argue us and question our knowledge.

So I'm on your side my friend!
I am sorry also,as my response was directed at twinturbobmw.I am also giving MHO!

[mryakan]

lol @this thread. Group hug everyone, we are all friends here, right? :D