Hova`s super amazing E36 m3 build v1.0

[Hova]

.

[pbonsalb]

Is this thread premature for the FI forum? Lots of people do routine maintenance and think about ordering some turbo parts.

[milKt]

even a broken clock is right twice a day.


the intake cam cover seemed to have paint chipping off of it...


Good analogy. :)

Yeah,
what causes the cam cover to look like a haggard grandma hobo? :shifty

What part of Florida?

Heres the beauty of synthetic after 60,000 miles.

[HyperMikeD]

Should have known with a thread title like "Super Amazing"...

Kinda like Jumbo Shrimp or Kinda Pregnant...

[ltw97m3]

glad to see someone else consider, and what sounds like they may follow through with, a large turbo, higher compression and low boost.
as for that one image with the cam cover being distorted i'd imagine that was the result of excessive heat. cant really help you out on what event may have lead to that though=/

just some advice lek, spend your time sparingly around these parts or you might end up with a differential < 3.00 and a 100lb+ after market exhaust...j/king your not the credulous type.

for anyone inquisitive, that may want to try and understand why someone would deviate from what has become popular to the deprived bmw community i have included some graphs below.
these two graphs are similar engines and same psi with different sized turbos. the borg warner s368 has a 67.75mm compressor and flows ~ 88lbs/min while the garrette has a 70mm compressor wheel and flows ~ 85lbs/min. the bottom graph is utilizing a s362 with a 62mm compressor wheel(similar to 35r) and flows ~ 65lbs/min.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/sixtylbsofboost/42vs368.jpg
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o268/vietjdmboi/untitled.jpg

[milKt]

That GT42 is SO far out of its effficiency area,
the graph info is useless (for a proper power comparison.)

[chikinhed]

I wonder if tuners are less likely to help on a build that uses a cheap Chinese nock off turbo manifold over a build that uses a manifold by a company that does the R&D that makes our cars faster and supporting the BMW community instead of just taking from it for $$$?

[raoke]

I dont think they will deny anyone service just because a part isnt OEM or name brand, but they might not want to accept responsibility and liability for something that has a history of failing.

[Hova]

I wonder if tuners are less likely to help on a build that uses a cheap Chinese nock off turbo manifold over a build that uses a manifold by a company that does the R&D that makes our cars faster and supporting the BMW community instead of just taking from it for $$$?


I know Jon Volk charges around $1600 for his "remarkable manifold", which people HAVE had boost creep with, i don't see how paying a guy $1600 for around $200-300 in metal is "supporting the BMW community". Im sure he has a jig setup, and can knock out manifolds in around 10 hours or so. So after parts, were talking around Jon making over $140 an hour... thats beyond just supporting the community, that's a ripoff. At that point, i could buy my own tig welder and metal. His manifolds look great! and im sure they are of epic quality, but for the price? no thank you :)

And i don't think any tuner is going to care about the parts used, especially the manifold. The cars will continue running even with a cracked manifold. Just like anyother BMW enthusiest on this forum, they are obessed with the dollar, and i dont think ANY BMW tuner is going to say no.


I dont think they will deny anyone service just because a part isnt OEM or name brand, but they might not want to accept responsibility and liability for something that has a history of failing.

Most tuners wont accept the responsibility on any part no matter what. Brand new Garret turbos CAN fail, lines CAN clog up, waste gates CAN fail. Wether they are cheap knock offs, or top of the line parts.


Good analogy. :)

Yeah,
what causes the cam cover to look like a haggard grandma hobo? :shifty

What part of Florida?

Heres the beauty of synthetic after 60,000 miles.


Shes beautiful!

I have a M52 on an engine stand right now, and she has just over 40k on it, all synthetic oil and it looks just like that.

I wish i knew what happened to that cam cover... water damage maybe? i dont know how though lol.


Should have known with a thread title like "Super Amazing"...

Kinda like Jumbo Shrimp or Kinda Pregnant...

:) not at all. I never want this build to end. So its going to be in labor for as long as i own the car.


glad to see someone else consider, and what sounds like they may follow through with, a large turbo, higher compression and low boost.
as for that one image with the cam cover being distorted i'd imagine that was the result of excessive heat. cant really help you out on what event may have lead to that though=/

just some advice lek, spend your time sparingly around these parts or you might end up with a differential < 3.00 and a 100lb+ after market exhaust...j/king your not the credulous type.


:rofl yeah let me go ahead and put a higher diff and slow my car down because i cant get traction....



for anyone inquisitive, that may want to try and understand why someone would deviate from what has become popular to the deprived bmw community i have included some graphs below.
these two graphs are similar engines and same psi with different sized turbos. the borg warner s368 has a 67.75mm compressor and flows ~ 88lbs/min while the garrette has a 70mm compressor wheel and flows ~ 85lbs/min. the bottom graph is utilizing a s362 with a 62mm compressor wheel(similar to 35r) and flows ~ 65lbs/min.


Yup, Gt35r is too small for my liking, gt40 or gt42 is more like it, even if it is outside of its efficiency range. Im not planning on a high boost application, simply low boost, high flow. I dont plan on spooling the turbo until 3k regardless, and i am fine with that :) When im below 4k anyway im not exactly expecting my car to be "flying", hell shes already a "torqueless" monster below 4k because of the m50 manifold swap :rofl

[BadBoostedBmwM3]

71mm is pretty big. I remember reading one of your post several months back.... it was something like this: "One day I want a reliable gt30 turbo setup making about 420whp."

[Hova]

71mm is pretty big. I remember reading one of your post several months back.... it was something like this: "One day I want a reliable gt30 turbo setup making about 420whp."

hmm dont remember ever saying Gt30, maybe gt35... Nonetheless, after a few months of thinking/research those little guys just aren't going to cut it.

[BadBoostedBmwM3]

hmm dont remember ever saying Gt30, maybe gt35... Nonetheless, after a few months of thinking/research those little guys just aren't going to cut it.

I wish I could remember the post.... it was around the time you became a member. Im thinking like september '08....

[Hova]

I wish I could remember the post.... it was around the time you became a member. Im thinking like september '08....

Hmm.. again, maybe i did say that, but as time passes, ideas and decisions change :)

[M///BMW]

Can't wait to see this come together. My e30 will still be faster..

[BadBoostedBmwM3]

Hmm.. again, maybe i did say that, but as time passes, ideas and decisions change :)

I think its great how people adapt their ideas...

[tman1299]

not bad man...just not a fan of 4door

[milKt]

not bad man...just not a fan of 4door

Four doors
can fit the whores.

[dcvee]

I think that's sludge that has "petrified" so to speak on your cam cover. If I'm not mistaken, the area is directly under the oil cap?? Also, cams usually don't have any issues on the lobes...it's under the caps where you see the typical scoring.

Good organization using the bags!!

Don

[someguy2800]

Yup, Gt35r is too small for my liking, gt40 or gt42 is more like it, even if it is outside of its efficiency range. Im not planning on a high boost application, simply low boost, high flow. I dont plan on spooling the turbo until 3k regardless, and i am fine with that :) When im below 4k anyway im not exactly expecting my car to be "flying", hell shes already a "torqueless" monster below 4k because of the m50 manifold swap :rofl

Your in for a harsh wake up call when you realize that physics disagrees with you.

[ltw97m3]

^care to explain yourself

[milKt]

^

A GT40 or GT42 is NOT going to do well in a low boost situation.

[Uraharasan]

Tell ya what...start out with a GT35, then if you really don't like it you can just send it to me and never worry about it again.

Then you'll have room for your GT40!

[HKWe36]

^

A GT40 or GT42 is NOT going to do well in a low boost situation.


Some people have to learn the hard way.:rolleyes

Just because it sounds great in theory doesn' t mean its gonna work or get you to your goals because they are many unseen factors. Take the advice from the experts who have experience in "tried and true methods" of the goals your wanting to achieve.

I hope everything works out great and i'm looking forward to seeing this build finished.:buttrock

[Quicksilver328i]

A gt40 is goig to be hard to contol at such low boost levels, a smaller turbo would make nearly identical power with easier surge control and earlier spool. Also no need to O-ring a low boost high compression stock head stud build.

[7808]

i love 4 door m3's .. they look "right" . not like they quit trying past the front doors

[ltw97m3]

.

.
because the graphs i provided failed to evoke much enlightenment id imagine any attempt to further explain, on my part, would be an exercise in futility; so i ask you to explain yourselves along with someguy2800.

some advice for all with an open mind.
when ideas contradict what you have accepted in your mind its wise to look into the subject matter before discrediting so hasty as credibility can quickly be lost.

lek, id request this thread be locked as learning is contingent upon an open medium.

[milKt]

because the graphs i provided failed to evoke much enlightenment id imagine any attempt to further explain, on my part, would be an exercise in futility; so i ask you to explain yourselves along with someguy2800.

some advice for all with an open mind.
when ideas contradict what you have accepted in your mind its wise to look into the subject matter before discrediting so hasty as credibility can quickly be lost.

lek, id request this thread be locked as learning is contingent upon an open medium.


What?

[HKWe36]

What?

X2

[milKt]

I think (s)he just asked the OP to have the thread locked.
Santa Smilie is about to throw a finger at ya.

:nono

[jfdmas]

man, everyone must be ballers if they can afford a 35r now then maybe a 40r later.lol Lets be honest here. with a small turbo or large turbo runnin low boost is gunna be slow regardless. If you think you may wanna turn up the wik later then go with the larger turbo so you have headroom and your not maxing out a smaller turbo efficiency.

[Hova]

man, everyone must be ballers if they can afford a 35r now then maybe a 40r later.lol Lets be honest here. with a small turbo or large turbo runnin low boost is gunna be slow regardless. If you think you may wanna turn up the wik later then go with the larger turbo so you have headroom and your not maxing out a smaller turbo efficiency.

Your little 2.8L was spinng the Sc61 pretty damn well... iirc 30psi by 5k? or around there? And that was with less compression (u were on a .140 mls), and .4L less.

And some say even that turbo is too big for these cars.... :shifty

[HKWe36]

Your little 2.8L was spinng the Sc61 pretty damn well... iirc 30psi by 5k? or around there? And that was with less compression (u were on a .140 mls), and .4L less.

And some say even that turbo is too big for these cars.... :shifty

:lolYou are not understanding at all......

GT40 can and has been used on these engines and work wonderfully for big/high boost apps. but your wanting to use a GT40 for your "low boost/ high flow" goal and thats not gonna work out to be all that great as it sounds good only in thoery.......

[milKt]

I suppose a good question that hasn't been asked yet might be,
"What do you consider low boost?"

For some built 4 cylinders, 25psi is low ...

[HKWe36]

I suppose a good question that hasn't been asked yet might be,
"What do you consider low boost?"

For some built 4 cylinders, 25psi is low ...

x2...Once again

[GG///M3]

my question is why hasn't anyone used a gt30r besides Mr.Blonde who smashed the 1/4 record and held it for yearssssssssssss?

[BadBoostedBmwM3]

my question is why hasn't anyone used a gt30r besides Mr.Blonde who smashed the 1/4 record and held it for yearssssssssssss?

I didn't know kenny used a gt30. BTW, I know Cam (highboostingm3) used a gt30r in one of his builds.

[milKt]

ARe you sure Kenny used a GT30r to hit his high 10 sec pass?

[GG///M3]

ARe you sure Kenny used a GT30r to hit his high 10 sec pass?

Pretty sure it was a gt30r 1.06 hot side. http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13954060&postcount=39 Mrblonde also makes some good points in this post http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13974651&postcount=61 OP I'm not posting this to down your choice of turbo, and the same goes for ltw97. I look foward to seeing what you guys end up doing.

[KawBoy]

:lolYou are not understanding at all......

GT40 can and has been used on these engines and work wonderfully for big/high boost apps. but your wanting to use a GT40 for your "low boost/ high flow" goal and thats not gonna work out to be all that great as it sounds good only in thoery.......

To reiterate, many large frame turbo's don't "come alive" so to speak until subjected to higher boost levels.

For low boost you're going to want a smaller turbo that's more efficient at that boost level, regardless.

[HKWe36]

To reiterate, many large frame turbo's don't "come alive" so to speak until subjected to higher boost levels.

For low boost you're going to want a smaller turbo that's more efficient at that boost level, regardless.

I agree 100% thank you.

[7808]

To reiterate, many large frame turbo's don't "come alive" so to speak until subjected to higher boost levels.

For low boost you're going to want a smaller turbo that's more efficient at that boost level, regardless.
this must be true, my holset was a dog until i cranked it up to 20psi then it started to pull and it sounded like a garabge truck

get the right sized turbo if your goin for low boost

[5mall5nail5]

The only time a low pressure turbo works well is on a very large displacement motor.

[KawBoy]

this must be true, my holset was a dog until i cranked it up to 20psi then it started to pull and it sounded like a garabge truck

get the right sized turbo if your goin for low boost

Thanks for the holset example!

My HX40 with bep .70 a/r on a 2.0 4 cylinder (4G63) didn't impress me much until 28-30 psi. All of the guys making big numbers with them are running 33-40 psi on the 4G63.

Perfect example in point of how a big turbo is inefficient with little boost. It needs the air flowing through it that running more boost will provide. Low boost and a 3.x liter are simply not enough...

[BMWSOB]

Hows that O-ringing coming Lek?

[someguy2800]

because the graphs i provided failed to evoke much enlightenment id imagine any attempt to further explain, on my part, would be an exercise in futility; so i ask you to explain yourselves along with someguy2800.

some advice for all with an open mind.
when ideas contradict what you have accepted in your mind its wise to look into the subject matter before discrediting so hasty as credibility can quickly be lost.

lek, id request this thread be locked as learning is contingent upon an open medium.

I go through this about every three days and its always like throwing eggs at a rock so I'm not getting into it. Go find the answer yourself. Hint: the answer is in your "high flow, low boost" theory.

[MrFunkengruven]

GT42R + M3 does NOT go well together with low boost... go with the 'smaller' 35R or 37R... completely pointless unless you plan on running 9's or 8's at the track with over 25 Psi...

Take a look at how much ON/OFF power this M has... wheelspin city, then hits 2nd, bog... then wheelspin again... i mean after 3rd it really starts moving, but this car had drag radials on the back... :eyecrazy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSIT_dBPbMw&feature=related

[Colby Colbs]

wow, thats a fast 4dr

[M3GSX]

That car could be much faster. The guy was obviously either just messing around or just not taking his shifts seriously. He could enable that anti-lag in between shifts and keep the throttle planted and I bet that puppy would be rediculous!

[MrFunkengruven]

That car could be much faster. The guy was obviously either just messing around or just not taking his shifts seriously. He could enable that anti-lag in between shifts and keep the throttle planted and I bet that puppy would be rediculous!

very true. i think there was another vid but he took it off youtube, with only 14 psi... thing really didnt move at all... i mean it was def faster than any stock M3 lol but he had power for like 500 rpm then shifted, then blahhh turbo lag :D thing is nasty though

[BadBoostedBmwM3]

I can't remember whose car that it is, BUT he is on here.

BTW, it is a china gt42 not a real garrett.

[niks325i]

This thread is super amazing.

Nik

[MrFunkengruven]

this must be true, my holset was a dog until i cranked it up to 20psi then it started to pull and it sounded like a garbage truck

Damn makes we wanna go boost :D