Copper o-ring in the head w MLS?

[Sniz]

hey guys,
I'm about to pull my head, I was thinking that while its at the machine shop being cleaned up I coudl have copper o-rings put in the head.

I'm planning on o-rining the block w/ an MLS gasket....would it hurt or be beneficial to also o-ring the head?

da Sniz

[SiGmA]

I'm very curious Matt. I despise MLS spacers with a passion after blowing two very quickly, but I imagine that the oring will help the longevity. I still vote you pull the block out, swap in some stock-bore pistons, and call it a day :)

[BavarianLove]

sigma what are you using for pistons and type of headgasket right now

[SiGmA]

Stock headgasket, ARP2000 headstuds, and Wiseco 8:1CR pistons. I'd shoot for 8.5-9:1CR, but my order turned into 8:1 vs 8.5:1.. Oh well. I see 17psi by ~4200RPM running on just the wastegate spring, no boost controller. It floats my boat.

[highboostingm3]

DO NOT TRY TO DO BOTH RIGHT NOW!

It would be too much at this point. Double offset o-rings have to be precise or you will have problems and nobody I know of has tried the o-ring at all with the MLS 0.140 yet! I personally have had good luck with the 0.070 MLS and standard copper o-rings on the block only.

O-ring EITHER the block OR the head with COPPER O-RINGS period. :)

The only question you should be asking yourself is:
1) To figure-8 or not to figure-8?

Nevermind...you have the s52 so you MUST figure-8!

Are you going to do any work to the head? If not then it will cost way more to o-ring the head than to simply use the tool with grease to collect shavings for the block. So if the answer is, "No, the head will come off and go right back on." Then o-ring the block!

:eatpop:

[BadBoostedBmwM3]

DO NOT TRY TO DO BOTH RIGHT NOW!

It would be too much at this point. Double offset o-rings have to be precise or you will have problems!

O-ring EITHER the block OR the head with COPPER O-RINGS period. :)

The only question you should be asking yourself is:
1) To figure-8 or not to figure-8?

Are you going to do any work to the head? If not then it will cost way more to o-ring the head than to simply use the tool with grease to collect shavings for the block. So if the answer is, "No, the head will come off and go right back on." Then o-ring the block!

:eatpop:

I thought one would want to use steel o-rings with MLS and copper o-rings with OEM gasket like material....:confused

[highboostingm3]

I thought one would want to use steel o-rings with MLS and copper o-rings with OEM gasket like material....:confused
I edited my post a little but ninja edit was too slow. :shifty

Nope! You can't cut into steel with steel. One or the other must be copper. One molds around the other. So with MLS (steel) gasket you use copper o-ring and with copper gasket you use steel o-ring. :)

The two different combos above achieve two different things. It would seem that the steel o-ring cutting into the copper gasket would be ideal, but copper gaskets are usually not recommended for street use due to leakage (in most cases). In the other thread I stated my own experience. I was the only one I believe who used a copper o-ring with MLS gasket. With both engines I went to at least 26psi and never had any leakage. The first engine was to 32psi and that was after sitting in traffic with the stock water temp gauge in the red in Las Vegas, the next night after refreshing the coolant system driving 4 hours back from Vegas, then a week later 32psi = no leakage.

[SiGmA]

Cameron, you make a good point with the DIY block oring tool. I suppose I entirely know what I'm going to do once I have time to do it.

[futureroadracer]

I have (Bavarian Solutions Head) copper O-rings and .140 head gasket. I am making 19lbs of boost with my T-trim and the tune is pretty lean. I was only able to beat on it for two weeks, which I did.

I may have cracked the head with all my stupidity but the headgasket has stayed sealed....

[turnerNCM3]

Dude use a straight edge and a flashlight to check your block deck regardless of which route you go. It is of paramount importance.

[highboostingm3]

I have (Bavarian Solutions Head) copper O-rings and .140 head gasket. I am making 19lbs of boost with my T-trim and the tune is pretty lean. I was only able to beat on it for two weeks, which I did.

I may have cracked the head with all my stupidity but the headgasket has stayed sealed....

Oh snap 0.140 MLS + copper o-ring in da house! :wow

Thanks for chiming in with that! :buttrock

[Sniz]

DO NOT TRY TO DO BOTH RIGHT NOW!

It would be too much at this point. Double offset o-rings have to be precise or you will have problems and nobody I know of has tried the o-ring at all with the MLS 0.140 yet! I personally have had good luck with the 0.070 MLS and standard copper o-rings on the block only.

O-ring EITHER the block OR the head with COPPER O-RINGS period. :)

The only question you should be asking yourself is:
1) To figure-8 or not to figure-8?

Nevermind...you have the s52 so you MUST figure-8!

Are you going to do any work to the head? If not then it will cost way more to o-ring the head than to simply use the tool with grease to collect shavings for the block. So if the answer is, "No, the head will come off and go right back on." Then o-ring the block!

:eatpop:

thanks man, so figure 8 in the block it is


Stock headgasket, ARP2000 headstuds, and Wiseco 8:1CR pistons. I'd shoot for 8.5-9:1CR, but my order turned into 8:1 vs 8.5:1.. Oh well. I see 17psi by ~4200RPM running on just the wastegate spring, no boost controller. It floats my boat.

id love to build the motor, but time and availability of equipment are limiting that right now. I'm doing just about all the work myself and I just dont have the ability.

In the future, IF the MLS and oring setup fails, it will happen and I will have wasted more money and time....ahh the joys of F/I.


Dude use a straight edge and a flashlight to check your block deck regardless of which route you go. It is of paramount importance.

I will CERTAINLY be doing this. If I see anything weird, the engine will come out.

[SiGmA]

I have (Bavarian Solutions Head) copper O-rings and .140 head gasket. I am making 19lbs of boost with my T-trim and the tune is pretty lean. I was only able to beat on it for two weeks, which I did.

I may have cracked the head with all my stupidity but the headgasket has stayed sealed....Cracked head due to lean conditions?? Or overheating...

But good news regarding the copper orings+0.140MLS!
Dude use a straight edge and a flashlight to check your block deck regardless of which route you go. It is of paramount importance.+100!
thanks man, so figure 8 in the block it is

id love to build the motor, but time and availability of equipment are limiting that right now. I'm doing just about all the work myself and I just dont have the ability.

In the future, IF the MLS and oring setup fails, it will happen and I will have wasted more money and time....ahh the joys of F/I.

I will CERTAINLY be doing this. If I see anything weird, the engine will come out.I'd make friends with someone who can help you build the motor. Its not hard, and honestly all you need is a set of pistons/rings, and maybe a bore/deck. If you plan to stick with a 35R setup and NOT make north of 550whp, I think you'll be safe on the stock rods even.

For $1500-2000 you can get everything you need... An engine stand & hoist (CL or Harbor Freight), machine work (bore/hone, deck, fit rings), bearings, headstuds, main/rod bolts (stock), and you'll not have to go into it again... Just my $0.02, being I went through two MLS's before I decided to never do that again. My stock headgasket is holding up to more power with no issues now that I am running low compression pistons.

That said, I bet with the orings, you won't have issues with the head.

[futureroadracer]

I assume detonation... It was never overheated!

I found a fair amount of coolant in cylinder 2 and 3 spark plug holes. The only way that can happen is with a crack. No?

Still runs great and I hope to have a revised TRM tune SOON! The head will stay on until is absolutley HAS to come off, at which time i will build the engine and have the head repaired! She runs great and has no negative impact other than a little coolant in the plug holes every 1-2k or so miles, this is with extended beatings.

[QUOTE=SiGmA;18337833]Cracked head due to lean conditions?? Or overheating...

But good news regarding the copper orings+0.140MLS!

[sirzepp]

Sigma, you have exactly the setup I'm going after...maybe overbuilding a bit more than you did...but the same basic idea.

I am more limited in boost with the 9:1 setup, though...don't think I'd be able to hit 17psi w/o race or meth.