87 635csi 5 speed turbo build

[e345401]

Hey everyone new to the 6er world, just bought a 87 5 speed. 200k on it in fairly good shape. the car is gold with dark tan interior. I have tried hard to find any pics of it and NO luck!! This might be a rare combination?
Looking at doing a TCD turbo stage 2 on it in the near future! There must be someone on here with a m30 turbo? Just wondering if this kit is worth the buck? any info would be great!!
thanks

[Roku35]

What color is the dash? If it is not black, but brown, you may have a Nutria color interior. Which are around but not many in good condition. Post some pics of your new car inside and out. We love to talk about each others 6ers (at least I do). Love everything about the 6er.

You came to the right place. Lots of experts here for turbo upgrades, especially with the TCD system. I'm also planning to take on a TCD Stage 2 upgrade in 2010 (summertime). Start a thread on your progress, I'll be one of the interested people in watching your progress and lessons learned with your project.

Welcome to the 6er-ddiction:D

[Taylor Marshall]

There must be someone on here with a m30 turbo?

I'm one of the someones, I guess :)
but there are very few other folks posting here running forced induction on their M30's.



Just wondering if this kit is worth the buck?


It's the only soup to nuts modern kit I know of that was designed from the ground up specifically around the m30 engine so it's difficult to put together useful comparison pricing. I don't doubt that it could be done cheaper if you were willing to spend the time shopping around for individual components and adapting them all both to your car and to each other but you better know what you're doing especially if you want to run some serious boost.

Considering the same question subjectively only you can answer that. I love the look and feel of driving these handsome old beasts but they're just too damn slow and sluggish off the mark for my taste so now I have what is, for me, the best of both worlds and it was worth every penny. Being able to accelerate breathtakingly quickly up to warp speed gets me (to steal a phrase from the wise & witty Lars OBG) 'grinning like a sated baboon' every time.
Too bad you're probably not in Montreal or I'd take you for a spin so you could see what I mean.
My experience with the kit is that it has been totally reliable and doesn't overheat the car . Todd from TCD has always cheerfully and enthusiastically helped me with whatever boneheaded question I have and is there when you need him.

You must take into account though that you cannot just install the kit on a stock car without doing some other upgrades. These include a turbo capable exhaust system, much stronger clutch, better head gasket and head studs, a limited slip diff and W6DC or the equivalent spark plugs.

Here's a list of the necessary's and prices I paid in US dollars back in the Spring of 2006 when I purchased the kit (I had an LSD already). I am not including labour charges as I'm not sure if you plan on doing the work or part of it yourself :

449.00 Clutch - Performance organic 485 ft-lbs holding 219.00 MLS Head Gasket 219.00ARP Head Studs 695.00 Single 3" Hi Flow Exhaust System 5,125.00 Stage II Turbo 46.00 Boost Gauge 35.00 Water Temp Gauge 90.00 High tension wires & plugs
6878.00 TOTAL

and here's a list of other stuff I did at the time of purchase/install that could be considered optional:

135.00 15 lb Flywheel 70.0 0Engine mounts x 2 150.00 Powder Coating Turbo manifold 195.00 MSD Controller 35.00 MSD Coil
585.00 TOTAL

Hope this helps.
Taylor

[Jahcure]

You live in montreal sweet i bearly saw any sixer in montreal actually i saw 2 one red one with the euro bumpers i beleive in outremont and one white one in east end like iberville and st joseph.

Can i see let alone be passenger in your 635 turbo im looking to get a 633 in the near futur and was wondering how does a sixer ride and feel with a turbo .

[tau166]

There is a lot of forced induction information available in the forced induction section of mye28. Suggest you check it out. In case you don't know yet, the e28 and e24 (after June 83 I think) are essentially identical mechanically...just the body and interior that are different. TheSixerKid also has a turbo'd 6. He mostly posts on bigcoupe but he has been absent for a while...I think he's been working on a supercharger for his recently acquired e34 (also with an M30 I believe). You could try to PM him here or on bigcoupe for some info on his system.

[Taylor Marshall]

Can i see let alone be passenger in your 635 turbo im looking to get a 633 in the near futur and was wondering how does a sixer ride and feel with a turbo .


Sure, but you'll have to wait until next Spring when it comes out of storage. PM me then if you're still interested.

There are damn few Sixers left in Quebec that the tin worms haven't reduced to ferrous oxide. If I can offer some advice, buy your 6er in the US South and drive it or transport it here. Cars more than 15 years old are a breeze to import into Canada. I've brought in two (an E12 528i and an Audi 4KQ) from the States over the years.

[JRanmann]

In case you don't know yet, the e28 and e24 are identical...just the body and interior that are different.yeah there's theory and then there's practice, for instance have you ever dated a boxy girl with a face that you didn't really wish to look at while in the sack?

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh93/JRanmann/19.jpg

'nuf said?

lol!

[e345401]

Hey! Thanks for the info!!! I'm excited for this build. just waiting for the e34 540i to sell then I'm on my way :) Your car sounds like a rocket! I realize things can be quite a cost! your exhaust is high priced!! was it custom? also what psi are you running? and what type of engine management did you go with? Pics to fallow! the car is in calgary and in storage for the time being.

[tau166]

Well, I wasn't quoted precisely...way to edit what I said without indicating the change. "Essentially" does not mean they are exactly the same thing. Still, as long as we all agree that the e24 is "theory" and the e28 is "practice" per the below scientific diagram I won't be offended :) :eyecrazy


yeah there's theory and then there's practice, for instance have you ever dated a boxy girl with a face that you didn't really wish to look at while in the sack?

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh93/JRanmann/19.jpg

'nuf said?

lol!

[JRanmann]

Hey Tau no worries as I saw the opening and took it...for some reason I got the impression that you were a five series lover and thought that the cars were 'essentially' identical...hence my comparison diagram above that, used in the right circumstance can erase all doubt as to the difference between theory and practice...I'm glad you are enough of a sport and clever enough, to see my slight misquote and then to catch me out at my own game...

That savvy could only come from a sixer owner ... anyone driving and emphasizing the beauty of the BMW five series would have missed that subtle change entirely!

Cheers!

Ran

[e345401]

I'm one of the someones, I guess :)
but there are very few other folks posting here running forced induction on their M30's.



It's the only soup to nuts modern kit I know of that was designed from the ground up specifically around the m30 engine so it's difficult to put together useful comparison pricing. I don't doubt that it could be done cheaper if you were willing to spend the time shopping around for individual components and adapting them all both to your car and to each other but you better know what you're doing especially if you want to run some serious boost.

Considering the same question subjectively only you can answer that. I love the look and feel of driving these handsome old beasts but they're just too damn slow and sluggish off the mark for my taste so now I have what is, for me, the best of both worlds and it was worth every penny. Being able to accelerate breathtakingly quickly up to warp speed gets me (to steal a phrase from the wise & witty Lars OBG) 'grinning like a sated baboon' every time.
Too bad you're probably not in Montreal or I'd take you for a spin so you could see what I mean.
My experience with the kit is that it has been totally reliable and doesn't overheat the car . Todd from TCD has always cheerfully and enthusiastically helped me with whatever boneheaded question I have and is there when you need him.

You must take into account though that you cannot just install the kit on a stock car without doing some other upgrades. These include a turbo capable exhaust system, much stronger clutch, better head gasket and head studs, a limited slip diff and W6DC or the equivalent spark plugs.

Here's a list of the necessary's and prices I paid in US dollars back in the Spring of 2006 when I purchased the kit (I had an LSD already). I am not including labour charges as I'm not sure if you plan on doing the work or part of it yourself :

449.00 Clutch - Performance organic 485 ft-lbs holding 219.00 MLS Head Gasket 219.00ARP Head Studs 695.00 Single 3" Hi Flow Exhaust System 5,125.00 Stage II Turbo 46.00 Boost Gauge 35.00 Water Temp Gauge 90.00 High tension wires & plugs
6878.00 TOTAL

and here's a list of other stuff I did at the time of purchase/install that could be considered optional:

135.00 15 lb Flywheel 70.0 0Engine mounts x 2 150.00 Powder Coating Turbo manifold 195.00 MSD Controller 35.00 MSD Coil
585.00 TOTAL

Hope this helps.
Taylor

Hey! thanks for the info! I would love to see your shark! just what wondering what psi your running? Also what management system you went with? fuel pump/injector size? thanks for all your info! I'm interested learning more here! If you know anyone in the calgary area who would like a mint E34540i with some nice mods? that would great, The care is in storage now, pics to fallow!

[Taylor Marshall]

My pleasure. I had a feeling you were out West somewhere.
Running 14 ~ 15 psi (depends on ambient temp).
Stock fuel pumps and they are up to the job but I don't track the car.
37 lb injectors.
Stock motronic augmented with the TCD chip to get the fuel mapping right + MSD
ignition controller & coil (see pics to show where I installed it). TCD does offer a stand alone system as their Stage III but I'm just a tearass cruiser and don't really need it . Todd will happily fill you in on the details of it or anything else if you give him a call.

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=4618


http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=5787http://

[e345401]

My pleasure. I had a feeling you were out West somewhere.
Running 14 ~ 15 psi (depends on ambient temp).
Stock fuel pumps and they are up to the job but I don't track the car.
37 lb injectors.
Stock motronic augmented with the TCD chip to get the fuel mapping right + MSD
ignition controller & coil (see pics to show where I installed it). TCD does offer a stand alone system as their Stage III but I'm just a tearass cruiser and don't really need it . Todd will happily fill you in on the details of it or anything else if you give him a call.

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=4618


http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=5787http://

M30 looks soo good with that tubo on it!!! Cant wait to start the build! Your exhaust system was quite pricy, was it a full custom job from the down pipe? or is there a pre- fabricated option? Car must be a rocket on 15psi :) must be a joy to drive and one hell of a sleeper!!! you should be quicker then a e39 m5? thanks again for all the info! hope to get the car ready for the build here soon! also any recommended diff

[JRanmann]

I suppose Photobucket has been now elevated to the decider of the end-all definition as to what constitutes 'theory' and what is actually 'practice'....

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh93/JRanmann/19.jpg

God, what has we stooped to now...and where is Webster's when we need them the most?

:D

[e345401]

Hey Tau no worries as I saw the opening and took it...for some reason I got the impression that you were a five series lover and thought that the cars were 'essentially' identical...hence my comparison diagram above that, used in the right circumstance can erase all doubt as to the difference between theory and practice...I'm glad you are enough of a sport and clever enough, to see my slight misquote and then to catch me out at my own game...

That savvy could only come from a sixer owner ... anyone driving and emphasizing the beauty of the BMW five series would have missed that subtle change entirely!

Cheers!

Ran

lol I figured that! I still love old 5 series don't get me wrong! I have owned my e34 for 6 years now and had nothing to complain about, except a few minors. E24s are beautiful cars that turn more heads then any new bimmer! That is why the 5 is for sale and the 6er gets BOOST!!!!
Thanks,


What color is the dash? If it is not black, but brown, you may have a Nutria color interior. Which are around but not many in good condition. Post some pics of your new car inside and out. We love to talk about each others 6ers (at least I do). Love everything about the 6er.

You came to the right place. Lots of experts here for turbo upgrades, especially with the TCD system. I'm also planning to take on a TCD Stage 2 upgrade in 2010 (summertime). Start a thread on your progress, I'll be one of the interested people in watching your progress and lessons learned with your project.

Welcome to the 6er-ddiction:D

Hey! thanks for the info! gold seems like rare color for this car? No luck on any internet pics! The dash is brown, pics are coming! the car is in storage at the moment!

[Taylor Marshall]

Your exhaust system was quite pricy, was it a full custom job from the down pipe?


Here it is. I wanted a plug and play car and was prepared to pay for a set up designed for the kit and proven true.

http://www.turbochargingdynamics.com/product-64-12-11-e24_chassis_633csi_635csi.php

I'm very happy with my stock 3.46 LSD but a 3.64 LSD would be fun too.
One day (that would be the day after I win the lottery) I'll replace mine with a Quaife. With this much power even overdrive is a power gear :)
I'm OC about keeping an eye on the drive train and change gear oils yearly and inspect the guibo, diff & trannie mounts regularly since I've more than doubled stock HP.
I will stress here that you need to start with a good strong car and motor before doing this as all that extra power will tease out any inherant problems in a hurry. I busted a motor mount at 200 km/h and it was an interesting experience.

Here's some pics of the new exhaust I took at TCD's old shop in Ohio where Todd did the whole install for me.

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=6551

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=6552

[jmitro]

if the exhaust is stainless it will be more expensive than mild steel, as the SS tubing is more expensive. I built a custom SS exhaust for my racecar, and the pricing was as much as a supersprint prebuilt exhaust (if you include the $400 Y pipe I had custom made)

[Jahcure]

That is awsome. Mr Marshall you would definatly be getting a pm from me next spring.

but in the mean time can you post more pics of your 6ixer and turbo too even a vid if you have one ;) Thanks .

Jesse

[rbodor3]

True about the SS exhaust. Correct me if I'm wrong but Marshall's looks like mild steel or possibly the aluminum coated you can get from Summit. You can easily double the cost of making your exhaust by going with all SS components. When I map out the exhaust path for my 6er I'll be using aluminized steel because of how cheap it is, and it's a PITA to MIG stainless.

Marshall - was there no room to jump over the rear driveshaft and you went under? Do you have problems with it scraping ground over bumps or anything?

[Taylor Marshall]

Good eye, Senor Rbodor...it's aluminized steel.

Over the driveshaft ? I doubt there's room but I never measured or considered doing that. Unless I was driving on hideously corduroyed roads I didn't have a problem with ground clearance until I lowered the car (about 1.4 inches) a couple of years ago. Now I do have to be careful but what tings is the bottom of the muffler due to its sideways mounting rather than the cat to muffler pipe.



but in the mean time can you post more pics of your 6ixer and turbo too even a vid if you have one


Sorry, Jesse, but I don't have any vids to post unless you want to see some of my exquisite collection (European art films, you understand) of naked Bulgarian dwarves mud wrestling.
I'm not going to bore everyone with posting pics of the car itself (well, maybe just one :) ) as it's just another e24 and by no means concours quality.....don't get me wrong; it's a nice solid car that I take good care of it and I love it all to death but there are many cosmetically nicer ones out there.

Here however are a few pics of the turbo related stuff that you might find interesting. The turbine is buried under the intercooler and not visible from the top side at all .

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=13302


http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=7050

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=8013

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=9693

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=9789

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=12169

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=12209

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=12212

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=12211

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=13809

[e345401]

Here it is. I wanted a plug and play car and was prepared to pay for a set up designed for the kit and proven true.

http://www.turbochargingdynamics.com/product-64-12-11-e24_chassis_633csi_635csi.php

I'm very happy with my stock 3.46 LSD but a 3.64 LSD would be fun too.
One day (that would be the day after I win the lottery) I'll replace mine with a Quaife. With this much power even overdrive is a power gear :)
I'm OC about keeping an eye on the drive train and change gear oils yearly and inspect the guibo, diff & trannie mounts regularly since I've more than doubled stock HP.
I will stress here that you need to start with a good strong car and motor before doing this as all that extra power will tease out any inherant problems in a hurry. I busted a motor mount at 200 km/h and it was an interesting experience.

Here's some pics of the new exhaust I took at TCD's old shop in Ohio where Todd did the whole install for me.

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=6551

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=6552

looks very clean! I think the cat would be off my set up! Your car is auto? that is a tone of power to be playing with on a 24 year old torque converter! must be scary when she drops a gear!!! I'm getter my 6er looked at closely here when the roads are nice. snow is coming this week :( just curious... How many km on your car now? what has the total build cost come to besides the up keep? thanks again http://images.bimmerforums.com/vb3images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://images.bimmerforums.com/vb3images/icons/icon6.gif

[Taylor Marshall]

Why would you eliminate the cat ? Your car will stink and it won't add a lick of power...bad idea.
That's a Getrag 265 5 sp not an AT.
Car now has 204,xxx km's on it and I installed the turbo 31,xxx km's ago.
I don't know how I could possibly be more detailed on the turbo related build cost than the figures I provided already in this thread.

[rbodor3]

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=7050
hard to tell, but is this tapped into the side of the pan? picture contrast is killing my eyes :stickoutt

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=12169
Sorry if this is a repost question, but where'd you get the inlet body?

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=12209
Oil cooler, tank, and catch can?

sorry if these are obvious to some of you bimmer guys, but I'm used to cars that came stock turbo'd :stickoutt

:(

I feel like an idiot, I just realized you have an air/water IC
:(:(:(

[Taylor Marshall]

hard to tell, but is this tapped into the side of the pan? picture contrast is killing my eyes


Yes. That's the oil return line from the turbine to the pan. Here's a more comprehensive photo that shows both ends. This photo shows the original set up which was leaking at both ends as you can tell from the ugly oil traces so I tightened up the hose clamp at the top end and replaced the brass tap with the luridly coloured elbow and it hasn't leaked since.
It's interesting you mention an oil catch can as I do get some very minor oil blowby whichI think is to be expected from a 25 year old motor so once a year I open up the throttle body and clean off any oil that has accumulated on the throttle plate.


http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=14042



Oil cooler, tank, and catch can?
I feel like an idiot, I just realized you have an air/water IC


Don't feel dumb...it's not clear at all in my first shot what that is as it was taken during the initial install.

Here are a couple of better shots I took last summer when I was installing world bumpers. You can see the two heat exchangers, the middle reservoir (where I bleed the system from) and the Bosch continuous cycle pump. The only downside to this set up is that there is now simply no room to install an oil cooler rad/heat exchanger. I don't have any problems with the oil overheating but I impulsively picked up an oil cooler from a 745 as a kind of just in case insurance and then realized I couldn't use it. I guess I'll sell it.

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=14041

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=14040




but where'd you get the inlet body?



The throttle body is stock that I had powder coated. I bought the chromed spring/lever assembly bits from Steve B. (aka The Sultan of Bling) over at Roadfly. I had the extra length of pipe you see tig welded on as the silicon sleeve from the intercooler kept blowing off under boost which is about the worst time in the world to develop the world's biggest vacuum leak ! Now the connection is rock solid and never blows.

[rbodor3]

very comprehensive install man!

Not sure age of your motor is the only contributing factor to oil blow by. I get oil blow by on my 01 turbo volvo and have since the day I got it. It had gotten so bad before I had noticed it that when I first removed my IC plumbing it had a gross amount of oil built up on it - took me forever to flush out all the IC plumbing (only for me to replace all of it with a FMIC).