Check out the X7

[Aindriu]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b188/dubhghaill87/S5002131.jpg

:shifty Seriously though, how long does this stuff take to settle down? I just went out today to Mandurah and back which is 200km (180miles) worth of driving and it is still that high.

[mojocoggo]

It doesn't settle. "Settling" is what people expect when they spend 800 bucks on Bilsteins and H&Rs and their shit is still in the sky. It'll go down half a centimeter if that.

[Aindriu]

F**king hell so it's just gonna stay like that? That was way higher than the previous struts. I thought that it was just springs that controlled the height.

So basically that would mean the plate that holds the springs on the strut is higher than the OEM plate? My God this is definately the last time I will ever buy Bilsteins. It's just one issue after another with these damn things. How they have not managed to copy the measurements of the original struts is just beyond me.

[BMWe34CMM]

that sucks! i didnt even think about the height differences (regarding the perches where the springs sit)... I just put bilstein sports and i have a 740i sport and mine actually looks higher as well, and i have my stock sport springs on. That blows!

[bstar]

It's not the struts fault. The old ones you had on your car were so bad that the car was sagging.

If you wanted a drop, eibach or h&r should of been installed.

[BMWe34CMM]

id like to know the differences from OEM stock sport struts and shocks vs. Bilstein Sport. Perch heights, ride differences etc...

[bstar]

Plus your car is 15 years old. The springs should be replaced, it's like WTF?

[BMWe34CMM]

LOL yikes!

[joes95740]

Andrew, whats wrong with the car. All I see are bottle caps and the 4.4 everything else looks great!!

[Edwin NL]

sorry that sucks!

I would get some springs................. but B4's don't like lowering

[dophineh]

i say, bloody hell mate

[7series98]

That is a lot of............................gap

[tommyb2b]

Get 19 inch rims lol

[Chris V]

Are those gas struts? Often, gas charged struts will raise the car vs what springs alone will hold it at, as they are stronger than the springs. yes, springs normally control height (i.e. it's the same height whether the shock portion is installed or not), but if the gas charged strut is stronger (under presure) than the springs, it will raise the car. You'll never see struts let the car go LOWER than the springs will allow, but you can make them higher.

I've seen that on a lot of sports cars where people will put in lowered sport springs and gas charged struts/shocks and ended up at stock height or higher.

Anyone remeber teh old air shocks, like Gabriel Hi-Jackers? pickup trucks and drag racers used to use them on the rear to compensate for load or or hjack the rear of the car up? Same idea. The springs hold the car up, but the pressure in the air shocks could be adjusted to lift the car further (or raise it back up if it had a trunk/bed full of stuff).

[tommyb2b]

OMG I just realized what the title meant lol! I get it!

[1slo7fourOH]

[QUOTE=Chris V;17969797]Are those gas struts? Often, gas charged struts will raise the car vs what springs alone will hold it at, as they are stronger than the springs. yes, springs normally control height (i.e. it's the same height whether the shock portion is installed or not), but if the gas charged strut is stronger (under presure) than the springs, it will raise the car. You'll never see struts let the car go LOWER than the springs will allow, but you can make them higher.[QUOTE]

+1

[Baoser]

holy fail yacht

[jbimflyer]

holy fail yacht

:lol:lol....I'm sorry Drui, I'm sorry. This is a serious matter. I'm not sure but I think bigger wheels would kinda helpout.

[mojocoggo]

For the last time dammit a bad shock will have ZERO effect on ride height. You can have no shock at all and it'll still be at whatever height the spring makes it. The only thing a shock does is decide how fast the spring expands and contracts.

[Edwin NL]

sorry do not agree with you on that point!

[pizzaman09]

sorry do not agree with you on that point!
+1

Have you ever seen some one driving an old Cadillac or Lincoln and the back end is dragging because of bad shocks. It's a common sight with cars from Ohio.

[Chief Rocka]

holy fail yacht
ROFL:lol... Slap some 24's then check back!

[Aindriu]

I think eventually I will have to put some lower springs on the front. The back actually seems like its a little bit lower if anything.
Screw wether gas struts don't like being lowered or not I don't like the way it looks at the moment. Think it looks bad in the pic? Its worse in real life.

Just sucks that I used pretty much most of my spare cash to get these shocks in as the old ones were rattling my spine out.

[Aindriu]

:lol:lol....I'm sorry Drui, I'm sorry. This is a serious matter. I'm not sure but I think bigger wheels would kinda helpout.

No you would have the same gap as the wheels would still have to have the same rolling radius.

[mojocoggo]

sorry do not agree with you on that point!

Brohon, there is no agreeing or disagreeing. You can't debate gravity, you can't debate this either.


+1

Have you ever seen some one driving an old Cadillac or Lincoln and the back end is dragging because of bad shocks. It's a common sight with cars from Ohio.

Yes, that happens when the air suspension fails. The air suspension adjusts (compensates, rather) based on the load the car is carrying. In the case of older Caddys and Lincolns, it is supporting the car, but they are not conventional shocks like our cars have.

You could remove the shock completely but as long as the spring is there, the car will be at the same height.

[GimmieSumMo72]

bilsteins naturally have a higher return rate than oem struts. therefore increased height.

i've got the HD struts on mine, the rear ones have "settled" but the fronts are still sky high...

maybe you should do a M73 swap!

[njdjh2o]

Strut/shock do not control/maintain ride height, that is controlled by the springs and/or torsion bars. In the situation of having airbags (which we don't have) do control ride height, we are dealing with E38 struts. Again, they do not control the height of the car.

I would check to make sure the spring is set correctly in and on the strut mounts. Did you make sure the strut is fully in the knuckle hole.

Take the tires off, take pictures and post them on the club, that will help us to help you.

[Aindriu]

To top off my headache the guy at this garage who 'deleted' my SLS said that there was gonna be a hose that was off which will just be leaking some remainding fluid out.
I was thinking this morning...isnt the booster fluid for my power steering for the SLS as well? I opened it up this morning and it was as dry as a bone. I barely had enough CHF to fill it back up. I'm gonna have to ring this guy back up and try and see where to go from here.

[bstar]

Your Indy doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground...

[Aindriu]

*sigh* He came highly recommended. I swore never to go to a garage again and do all my own work but thought I'd give this guy a chance. I feel like such a dickhead going to a garage now and my father is giving me a load of stick about it too.

[TxDarth]

+1

Have you ever seen some one driving an old Cadillac or Lincoln and the back end is dragging because of bad shocks. It's a common sight with cars from Ohio.

Sorry it was not the shocks....springs, torsion bars, air bags maybe - not shocks. You could shocks off a car(not with coil overs) and the ride height would not change.:nono

[IcemanBHE]

Your SLS needs to be rounted back into a loop.

Othewise.....

[bstar]

It will continue to pee pee fluid.

[Aindriu]

I just don't understand how a noob like me can know that the SLS fluid is also the power steering fluid but this guy who is ment to have worked at BMW and is highly reputable doesn't!

[IcemanBHE]

Easy to fix tho....about 5 bux in parts.

[bstar]

Many know nothing about the e-38

[SEVEN40iL]

Many know nothing about the e-38

true words

[mojocoggo]

Why not just take a look under there and see what they did? It's under the car right below the left front door. There should be 3 metal lines, 2 of them being connect by a rubber hose. If he was lazy (sounds like he was) then he didn't plug up the hoses that go to the shocks, so yeah there would be fluid leaking from those.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/mojocoggo/my_e38/diagrams/DSC_5086.jpg

SLS removal is not rocket surgery.

[Aindriu]

Okay so I pretty much don't know what I'm doing but I got the E38 on ramps to have a look at where this booster fluid is coming from

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b188/dubhghaill87/S5002159.jpg

You can clearly see in that circle that there is a gap between where a pump (I presume the power steering) and that line...there is obviously ment to be a bolt or something attaching the two and the line certainly didn't wobble before when you put your fingers on it....Just what the hell does this guy think he is doing?

[mojocoggo]

He disconnected the pressure line for the SLS. It's just gonna spray right on the ground next time you start the car.

[Aindriu]

Why would he do that though? Is there sort of any logic at all behind it?

[mojocoggo]

You told him to get rid of self-leveling. There's no procedure for that to look up. So he just disconnected everything associated with it.

[Edwin NL]

Dude PM me your home number and I'll call you or are you on skype?

[bstar]

Those kangaroos make the worst mechanics...

[Edwin NL]

I talked to Aindriu and man what a d$ck the guys is that fixed the car.

He told him I removed a line of the SLS and pulled the fuse, it will leak oil a little and after that you should be fine ?!?!!?!?!?

I also think he installed the shocks the wrong way!

[jbimflyer]

I talked to Aindriu and man what a d$ck the guys is that fixed the car.

He told him I removed a line of the SLS and pulled the fuse, it will leak oil a little and after that you should be fine ?!?!!?!?!?

I also think he installed the shocks the wrong way!
Ofcourse, that's why the poor guy is having trouble. I don't know what bimmers he was recommended to work on, but it sounds like he doesn't know d$ck about e38s.

[Aindriu]

Thanks again Edwin for the call and the pointers. I feel alot more confident to take this guy on now, does he decide to lock horns.

I definately will be looking for some form of compensation for the botch up work that he did on top of the CHF 11S that needs to be filled up...but I want to put that stuff in myself. I'm buggered if I'm gonna trust him to put Dextron 2 in there.

[bstar]

Sorry to hear about this but not surprised by your posts. Punch the f**ker out for f**cking up your car.

[Chris V]

For the last time dammit a bad shock will have ZERO effect on ride height. You can have no shock at all and it'll still be at whatever height the spring makes it. The only thing a shock does is decide how fast the spring expands and contracts.

You can take the shocks completely out and have the minimum height the springs will hold at, but if the shock is pressurized, it can increase the height of the car by adding pressure to what the spring is providing.

So, a shock can't let the car sit lower than the spring will allow, but it CAN make the car sit [i]higher[i] than the spring alone will allow.

[bstar]

Both the spring and shock are pushing up.

[Aindriu]

Okay my father apparently just spent half of an hour on the phone with this guy and because he sounds like a nice guy I think he has puddled my fathers head. Apparently the 'procedure' played out like this.

Took out the banjo bolt and put in this special plug that's very hard to come by to into the side of the pump. That was supposed to seal the pump off from the system. They tried to flush out as much of the oil that they could from the remaining pipes and that is the lines that they stated would need a day or two to leak excess fluid.

Apparently this guy thinks that these black Bilsteins are bottom of the range and that there was nothing wrong with my old suspension...not that they were bouncing like hell, especially the rear. He reckoned that yeah there was a little leak but all struts do that and there was loads of compression in there.
He also stated that the front struts were the wrong fit and if they had ordered them, he would have sent them back to the supplier, but because it was a customer supplied item they modified it to install it.
Then he went into saying he charged me rock bottom $450 quoted after spending what was more like a grands worth in labor trying to make these fit.

Now my father is even on his side it seems because he does sound like a nice guy and was explaining that he has done this procedure many of times to cancel out SLS.

Thing is, when I try and push down on the front of my car...there is no compression at all. Car will not bounce, what would that mean?
I told my father what Edwin said about the springs needing to be in the groove in the rubber to sit down properly and he reckons it looks like they have been installed properly.

F**k the headache continues. At least he said they are happy to do what they can to fix the problem and send someone out to the house...but I don't have much confidence.

[bstar]

No reason to install wrong or defective parts.

[imola740i]

For the last time dammit a bad shock will have ZERO effect on ride height. You can have no shock at all and it'll still be at whatever height the spring makes it. The only thing a shock does is decide how fast the spring expands and contracts.
amen.

[Edwin NL]

Have them stop by and look/fix it on the spot

[Aindriu]

They are going to send tow truck to transport it down to the garage. Hopefully this will be nightmare over. :(

However at least it's less stress the fact that he is quite willing to fix his mistake and is not looking for an extra charge.

[mojocoggo]

If I may clear up this thread real quick:

Removing (bypassing) the self leveing DOES NOT require anything to be disconnected from the pump. It requires $5 US ($25,000,000 AU) of hose and hose clamps, and 5 minutes of time.

Shocks don't support the car.

Oprah IS cancelling her show.

The Giants won the pennant.

[Edwin NL]

:woowoo::woowoo::woowoo::woowoo:

LOL!

[Chris V]

Shocks don't support the car.



Normally, no. But gas pressurized ones can raise the car slightly, and air shocks are designed to raise the car or truck back to stock ride height if loaded (or jack the car way up if empty, as wannabe drag racers have been doing for years)

http://www.monroe.com/products/maxair.asp

Not saying that the gas pressurized strut is the cause here (as there's obviously a lot going on in his case) just that they can indeed raise the car slightly vs a stock strut/shock.

[bstar]

If I may clear up this thread real quick:



The Giants won the pennant.


What year did this happen?

A pennant is won in baseball, so you must be speaking of the San Francisco Giants?

[Kihon]

I see the height. Wow. Did it ever settle down?

[Showtime22]

How long have they been in they car? I think it may take a while but it will come down a bit. Also I think it looks fine.

[Splitdog]

True. ^^^ I had an old Lincoln. Factory air bags. Andreiu, bite the bullet and get bilstein sports with H&R or Eibach like the rest of us. You'll love it!!!

[jbimflyer]

True. ^^^ I had an old Lincoln. Factory air bags. Andreiu, bite the bullet and get bilstein sports with H&R or Eibach like the rest of us. You'll love it!!!

+1

[Aindriu]

They should be working on it today as they towed it towards the close of yesterday.
I have told them if they cannot install the suspension properly then just put the old ones back in and I'll just get a refund from the place I got them from as they were not OE fit like advertised.
Still best part of $500 worse off from this experience.

[IcemanBHE]

Um. Just thinking...I believe Bilstiens have internal bump stops. If they installed these using the OEM external bump stops, this would make the shocks/struts ride HIGH.

Check this.

[Aindriu]

I think it is just going to be best to have them put everything back as was. By the sounds of it they just took out loads of hydrolic pipes and when I push on the front it doesn't bounce, push on the back and it squeeks like mad...I just want my car back as it was at try to limit the damage.

God I just never thought this would eventuate from something as simple as swapping some bars over and looping a pipeline.

[Edwin NL]

Um. Just thinking...I believe Bilstiens have internal bump stops. If they installed these using the OEM external bump stops, this would make the shocks/struts ride HIGH.

Check this.

B4 shocks do need the bump stops ;)


I think it is just going to be best to have them put everything back as was. By the sounds of it they just took out loads of hydrolic pipes and when I push on the front it doesn't bounce, push on the back and it squeeks like mad...I just want my car back as it was at try to limit the damage.

God I just never thought this would eventuate from something as simple as swapping some bars over and looping a pipeline.

I hope they get her back the way she was!!

[Aindriu]

I hope they get her back the way she was!!

You and me both. The job has been unsuccessful in every single way it could without the struts actually falling off.
I just hope there are no problems taking the struts back because that is really going to stress me having a set of struts that don't fit my vehicle that I have paid for.

God this experience makes me just want to get my aircon sorted and sell the car on for profit and get a LS400 for a reliable daily until I can get my E60. :( I love my 7 however if you want to always stay OEM like I do, it ends up costing alot of money when things go wrong...which being a 7, they do.
At least if I had an old Lexus for the daily and an E60 for the weekend at least when something was wrong with the BMW I don't HAVE to get it fixed as soon as possible.
Plus it would be nice to have an easilly intergrated bluetooth head unit again.

As much as I like E28's I don't actually feel that safe driving one at the moment after being in my rock solid E38.

[Edwin NL]

it's not the car just the guy that is working on the car!

[Aindriu]

it's not the car just the guy that is working on the car!

I know...but you know what it's like when something ruins the overall experience of the car. It's actually been very reliable to be honest and the running costs have been very good. I think the fuel gauge goes down faster in the E28 535i than my big heavy V8 cruiser.

[Edwin NL]

Here is a car that I did with B4's

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/homerraas/BMW7/IMG_7303.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/homerraas/BMW7/IMG_7302.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/homerraas/BMW7/Bilstein.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/homerraas/BMW7/IMG_7103.jpg

[Chris V]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

If you (generic "you," not "you" specifically) are at the mercy of a shop to do work on your car, ANY car, you are likely to get screwed. Especially if you want a 5/10/15 year old car to be a new car, factory correct and factory perfect.

A friend had his older Miata in for MD state inspection this past February and they told him the high-pressure line and inner tie rod boot needed replacing. They wanted $856 for both. Parts cost: $65 and it only took about an hour of his time to fix.

Moral of the story: if the car is out of warranty, always learn how to do your own work, so that you can either do it yourself OR be able to deal with the shop from a position of knowledge. Do research on anything new to you before doing any work, so you understand the job thoroughly. And don't expect an old car to be new or perfect, especially on a budget.

Personally, I don't feel that there's enough value to these cars in keeping them factory perfect or factory original. If the factory did it right the first time, we'd never be replacing parts... For these cars, it's more about the balance between keeping it enjoyable and keeping it useable, and I think a lot of owners lose sight of that balance in the effort to keep them factory perfect and factory new, which costs so much that it stops being enjoyable. I bought mine 3 years ago with 143k on it. if I wanted a new on, I'd have bought a new one. if I tried to make mine factory new and factory perfect, I could have spent 10 grand or more on everything it might need to reach that point, from bodywork and paint to new suspension all around, to fixing the MID pixels, to fixing all the tiny little leaks around the engine, to little things on the trim and interior, to... well, you get the picture. As it is, I've spent a grand over the last three years on repairs, some preventative. It's never stranded me, it's been fun to drive all over the east coast. it's not perfect, it's not all original, and it's not new. It is, however, fun, fast, stylish, comfortable, and enjoyable. I'll perfect things as I have the time and as I determine that it's worth it to do. But I'm not gonna sweat it unless it's almost undriveable (like the shimmy that went from 50 mph to 60 mph after changing the traction struts, that turned out to be tie rod ends).

[Aindriu]

Yeah well thats why I went for the Bilstein B4's, okay it's not the original struts but I don't want to be pay a fortune for suspension on a car this old. I thought to be honest in the current heat that we have had that I would really love just to pay $450 out and have someone who is experienced and knows what he is doing take the car off me and then when I pick it up...it's done.

Obviously not.
Again though, at least he is trying to do the right thing. He certainly isn't going to be making money off this job.

[IcemanBHE]

Ok Thanks Edwin. I know some Bilstiens do have internal stops. Wasnt sure about B4s or any for the E38. Just was remembering something from the E31s.

[Aindriu]

Okay so an update: Guy has got back to me. He is switching over the front suspension to the old ones because he cannot get the others to fit. He has 'appropriately' deleted the SLS without leaks.
I get to be re-united with my baby this afternoon.

[Splitdog]

Bilstein 'Sports' do have internal stops. Don't use any with them.

[jbimflyer]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

If you (generic "you," not "you" specifically) are at the mercy of a shop to do work on your car, ANY car, you are likely to get screwed. Especially if you want a 5/10/15 year old car to be a new car, factory correct and factory perfect.

A friend had his older Miata in for MD state inspection this past February and they told him the high-pressure line and inner tie rod boot needed replacing. They wanted $856 for both. Parts cost: $65 and it only took about an hour of his time to fix.

Moral of the story: if the car is out of warranty, always learn how to do your own work, so that you can either do it yourself OR be able to deal with the shop from a position of knowledge. Do research on anything new to you before doing any work, so you understand the job thoroughly. And don't expect an old car to be new or perfect, especially on a budget.

Personally, I don't feel that there's enough value to these cars in keeping them factory perfect or factory original. If the factory did it right the first time, we'd never be replacing parts... For these cars, it's more about the balance between keeping it enjoyable and keeping it useable, and I think a lot of owners lose sight of that balance in the effort to keep them factory perfect and factory new, which costs so much that it stops being enjoyable. I bought mine 3 years ago with 143k on it. if I wanted a new on, I'd have bought a new one. if I tried to make mine factory new and factory perfect, I could have spent 10 grand or more on everything it might need to reach that point, from bodywork and paint to new suspension all around, to fixing the MID pixels, to fixing all the tiny little leaks around the engine, to little things on the trim and interior, to... well, you get the picture. As it is, I've spent a grand over the last three years on repairs, some preventative. It's never stranded me, it's been fun to drive all over the east coast. it's not perfect, it's not all original, and it's not new. It is, however, fun, fast, stylish, comfortable, and enjoyable. I'll perfect things as I have the time and as I determine that it's worth it to do. But I'm not gonna sweat it unless it's almost undriveable (like the shimmy that went from 50 mph to 60 mph after changing the traction struts, that turned out to be tie rod ends).

+1 or atleast know which parts to replace oem and which parts you really don't need to but will still maintain the integrity of the car.

Well said Chris.

[Edwin NL]

When you get the car back take pics of the shocks!

[Aindriu]

Will do. However things it now looks like I will not get the car back until tomorrow now. What a pain in the arse.

[Edwin NL]

Any news?

[Aindriu]

Spoke to the guy today. Couldn't finish up the job today but it sounds very likely to be ready tomorrow. He said he fixed the leak. Apparently he didn't know that there was a return line on these cars for the SLS :eek:.

He is taking the front suspension out and leaving the rears in. If the fronts don't fit they don't fit and it was really the rear that was the problem with the ride quality in the first place.

[Edwin NL]

And? 2 days later

[Aindriu]

It was ready at the end of yesterday. However, due to arrangements I was unable to pick it up due to not being able to get a lift down there. The girlfreind will give me a lift Monday morning after I've finished the night shift.
Also hoping to find a letter from the Vic Police at my door tomorrow too. So may be a good day. I've been so long without my E38 :(.