Ok another HFM thread.....reducers?

[///Mr. Three]

I want to do the 540 HFM on my car.....but in order to put a kit together what exactly do I need other than the software if I already already have the ECIS intake? I was assuming the 3.5 inch upgrade pipe for the intake and maybe a bigger filter to fit the 3.5 inch pipe? Also what about from the HFM to the throttle body pipe? Do I need some sort of reducer? If so where can I get that sperately?

Thanks,
Alex

[BGM3]

I'm planning on doing the same thing mod so I'd also like to know.

[Sean@ECIS]

Our 3.0" intake will NOT work with any 3.5" piping...cutting it will only destroy the shield and will not be lined up right. Just and FYI...

[///Mr. Three]

SO how does your kit go together the? Do you have to buy a whole new heat shield, piping and filter as well as the HFM and the reducer?

Thanks

[jmargo]

You will need a reducer. M3jokster makes a nice one for a good price.
You will need a 3.5 intake also.

[Sean@ECIS]

We have a seperate Euro HFM kit. It has all the 3.5" pieces and the reducer in the kit.

[M3Jokster]

Yes....to connect the 540 HFM...aka Euro HFM...you'll need a reducer kit.

the purpose of this reducer kit is to attach the HFM to the throttle body hose.

if you need more information on this...feel free to email me... and i can send you more info.

jokster@socal.rr.com

As you can see in the pic, the Reducer kit (3.5" to 3.0") is between the HFM and the throttle body hose.

to achieve the best out of the mod...It's required to have a 3.5" ID intake system..w/ a 3.5" filter....ie K&N or foam filter which ever you prefer.

also, Software is required. It is also necessary..to upgrade the injectors to 21.5 lbs or 24lb injectors. software is dependent on which injectors you use.

[mens rea]

the reducer necessary on a dinan TB?

[M3Jokster]

yes....the HFM is connected to the throttle body hose...not the TB.

the throttle body hose is 3.0"

[///Mr. Three]

Thanks guys!

[paul e]

Dumb question here, but isnt one of the reasons the bigger HFM ups the performance quotient a little is its greater flow due to its bigger diameter? What then happens if you step it back down the size of the Stock hfm, ie, 3", by using a reducer, just so it can fit the TB we have? I mean, wheres the advantage going to come from if you are ultimately stepping it back down to the same size you had to begin with?

[Sean@ECIS]

Paul,

Dynos don't lie... :)

http://www.ecisbmw.com/dyno_files/95M3HFMdyno.htm

Your question is a good one, but to make a new elbow for the TB you have to incorporate two coolant line hoses. Complete PITA.

Trust me, even with the step down to 3.0" the euro hfm cai mod is tremendous. Ask those of us that have lived through it with our 95 M3's. Not only is the euro hfm an advantage, but the Hot Film Reader inside it, coupled with the custom software, really make a difference.

LONG LIVE OBD-I!!!!:buttrock

[BGM3]

Anyone know of a dyno sheet where it shows the result of a Euro HFM on an OBDII car. I'd like to see what JUST the HFM does for an OBDII car.

[M3Jokster]

also...you do not want to have an elbow...made for the throttle body...due to the fact the our motor have so much TQ..that it will twist at every acceleration. w/ a permanent elbow, there are no..."flexibility/play" thus u can damage your TB and or the HFM/CAI.

so that's why you can't have a "solid" one piece elbow from the HFM.

example
if you open up your hood...and accelerate your engine via pushing down on the throttle body...you noticed at the "accordian" area on the Throttle body hose goes in and out.
and that your engine...flexes from side to side.

If i'm wrong..please chime in...

btw. I have a prototype right now...for the reducer kit w/ elbow to the TB. It's no good. too stiff.

[incubus]

Originally posted by M3Jokster

also, Software is required. It is also necessary..to upgrade the injectors to 21.5 lbs or 24lb injectors. software is dependent on which injectors you use.

Is this true? I've read conflicting info. Many kits are available (AA, TMS, ECIS) and I think only one has the option to upgrade injectors and the accompanying software.

[arkie6]

Larger injectors are not required to run the Euro HFM - many people run stock injectors with this setup. I am running the Jim Conforti Euro HFM intake kit with stock injectors on my 95 M3 and the car runs great. There might be some advantages to running the larger injectors if you have more mods than just a 3.5" HFM, but larger injectors are not a necessity with just a 3.5" Euro HFM intake kit.

[ca415playa]

what diameter is the conforti intake?

[mic_poo]

I ran into a little snag when hooking up my Euro HFM, Euro airbox and the TMS reducer. The Euro airbox moved the HFM forward just enough that the elbow wouldn't reach the back end of the HFM/reducer.

It was Saturday evening and I was starting to worry that I'd have to abort, but I found a little plasic adapter at Autozone that made up the distance perfectly.

[M3Jokster]

AA uses 21.5 lb injectors
JC uses 24lb injectors.

i should not have you have to upgrade...but was recommended for me i needed it due to the fact that i have schrick cams.

[incubus]

Originally posted by M3Jokster
AA uses 21.5 lb injectors
JC uses 24lb injectors.

i should not have you have to upgrade...but was recommended for me i needed it due to the fact that i have schrick cams.

ok, I'd heard that as well. That it's a necessity if you're running cams.

euro HFM + Euro intake = no need for larger injectors

euro HFM + Euro intake + schrick cams = need for larger injectors

each scenario requires it's accompanying software of course.

[Sean@ECIS]

euro HFM + Euro intake = no need for larger injectors

Not 100% true. Some 95 M3's with higher mileage will experience fuel problems due to the small 17.5lb injectors being maxxed out. Also, if the car sees any track schools, the motor can be at risk for lean conditions as well.

Larger injectors are cheap insurance.

[incubus]

Originally posted by Sean@ECIS
Not 100% true. Some 95 M3's with higher mileage will experience fuel problems due to the small 17.5lb injectors being maxxed out. Also, if the car sees any track schools, the motor can be at risk for lean conditions as well.

Larger injectors are cheap insurance.

Good to know. But is there any truth to larger injectors spoiling plugs sooner (inexpensive by-product) and/or ruining your cats (expensive by-product)?

[M3Jokster]

well,

if you run lean...then you can experience the process of rebuilding a new motor.....I know that from experience...it's a lot of money! go w/ larger injectors...some say 21.5 is sufficient if you don't have cams.

[Sean@ECIS]

But is there any truth to larger injectors spoiling plugs sooner (inexpensive by-product) and/or ruining your cats (expensive by-product)?

I don't know where you got this from, but it is completely false.

[paul e]

>>Dynos don't lie<<

Sean, I know it works well for the '95s. I think results are not nearly so pronounced with the OBDIIs. But my comment was about 'does' it work, but rather 'why' it works. Its been drummed into us that its the largest restriction along an input line is the one that rules the day. If the input and output to a device is 3", but the device itself is 3.5", isnt it the 3" i/o which determines the ultimate throughput?

If not, then we need some serious reschooling in fluid dynamics :) Could it be that the gains are NOT due to the 3.5" diameter of the hfm, but rather to the software and injectors used? In addition, could it be that the bigger hfm is using a different voltage output scale, and this, combined with the software and injectors is whats producing the results; not the added diameter?

[incubus]

Originally posted by Sean@ECIS
I don't know where you got this from, but it is completely false.

This is taken from your site:

"M3 Euro Kit includes: Euro custom heat shield, 3.5" mandrel bent piping, 9" ECIS cone filter, custom chip, OEM Euro HFM, billet reducer, silicone connection hoses, brackets, clamps and instructions. "

So is the 'custom chip' that's included programmed to work with larger injectors only they're not included in the kit?

If so, why not? Considering you're such a strong supporter of larger injectors...

[AvusMPower]

The JC intake is 3", but e-mail Doug at Turner Motorsport and ask him about getting a 3.5" one. He should give you a # to call. I'm going to be putting in my order tomorrow.

[Sean@ECIS]

Paul,

It is all of the above...larger air flow meter, better reader and the chip. Package deal all around.

Incubus,

We offer it either way. Injectors are only $225 more. Chip price is the same, just which one is needed is up to the customer.

I am not going to force my views on others by making them buy the injectors, but give them a choice. I can only tell them of our experiences (dyno time / road testing) and let them make their own choices.

[Croak]

http://www.activeautowerke.com/turbo/parts/default.asp

Scroll down and look at both the OBDII and OBD1 elbows. Works on a turbo application, should work just as well for a NA. Nice bling, if nothing else. I keep thinking I'm going to order one, and keep forgetting about it.

Notice they don't make one in 3.5"?

I suspect there's some fluid dynamics/velocity reason for the 3" elbow. If it was truly beneficial to increase the diameter of the factory elbow, you'd think AA at least would have done it, since they sell 3.5" HFM kits.

[DrZiplok]

Originally posted by paul e
>>Dynos don't lie<<

If not, then we need some serious reschooling in fluid dynamics :) Could it be that the gains are NOT due to the 3.5" diameter of the hfm, but rather to the software and injectors used? In addition, could it be that the bigger hfm is using a different voltage output scale, and this, combined with the software and injectors is whats producing the results; not the added diameter?

The actual cross-sectional area of the HFM is less than that of a piece of open tubing of the same diameter.

The extra diameter in the case of the 3.5" HFM makes up (to some degree) to the loss introduced by the grids (both areal loss and also turbulence).

[vjlax18]

Well I'm getting my OBD-II dyno'd Saturday... I think as long as Isabel didn't beat them up.

FYI - Dinan S/W, 540 HFM, Dinan CAI, ASCectomy, Dinan BB TB.:D

[axcE36M3]

Originally posted by DrZiplok
The actual cross-sectional area of the HFM is less than that of a piece of open tubing of the same diameter.

The extra diameter in the case of the 3.5" HFM makes up (to some degree) to the loss introduced by the grids (both areal loss and also turbulence).

exactly. also, there is a large sensor in that hfm as well, reducing the cross sectional area even more. so even though you have a 3" hfm, you only have, say, 2.5" of usable area. in a 3.5", you could have closer to 3".

[Elusive303]

what year of the 540 hfm would I need to get to fit on a 95 m3?
or are they all the same?

[Croak]

Pre-96