Blown Engine

[rickslade]

was told today that my 2000 528i would require a new engine. Quoted price for engine and labor was $11,000.00. Engine blew to over-heating while driving on Interstate. I was told today that the guages were working properly, although i never saw any indication there ws an over-heating problem. I guess its possible i missed it but unlikely.

Anyway, I was told it was preventable so warranty will not cover. I am not a car expert so I need help. What other options do I have other than to replace with a new engine.

thanks for your help in advance!

Rick

[nsk223]

The warrenty should cover anything besides a missed shift resulting in an over rev.

[toussi1]

Drop in a V8, might as well if you are going to buy a new engine.

[rickslade]

the dealer called today and told me the warranty would not cover because the problem was determined "preventable". :(

[Mblaster]

I'd like to know how all the lights,bells and whistles could be missed?

[Brandon J]

Yeah, you will most likely not win in this occasion. If I were you, I would shop for a used M3 engine with ECU and drop that in. That would be a much cheaper option with a lot of benefits. A V8 isn't cost effective because you will have to re-do the whole steering system as well as tranny etc. An e36 3.2L M3 engine will drop right in using all your electronics, fuel injectors/system, etc. Just need to change the ECU to an M3 one, use your oil pan/pick up/pump underneath to fit the e39 subframe, your flywheel, maybe exhaust headers.

[Theodore]

I'd get a second opinion from a good independent garage first of all. Second, if they say it is blown and will cost a lot, I'd take Brandon J's idea seriously. If you aren't into upgrading, I'm sure you could find a low mileage 2.8 and have an independent garage put it in for well under $11000.

[Greco540]

I'd get a print out of the DME Fault codes. Normally this should have registered a fault on your DME. If no faults were recorded you could fight this as a non-preventable item.

[rickslade]

Thank You! What is DME an acronym for?

[Malcolm]

Originally posted by rickslade
Thank You! What is DME an acronym for?

Digital Motor Electronics (or something close to that) - the computer that runs the motor.

Don't let them get out of warranty coverage without a fight.

[Ali]

You can find a good used 2.8L motor for less than $2,000 if you do a good search (your motor came on the 328, 528, and the z3 2.8 so you have a good chance of finding it)

[bmwpower]

You still never mentioned WHY it overheated. A 2000 engine should not overheat unless something drastic was done to it.

You may be able to fight the dealer or BMW on this. I would start there first. If you can get a new engine for free, that's the best deal.

[rickslade]

The service manager told me they thought it was a busted radiator hose. Very strange. i am absolutely sure i never got a red flashing "Engine Overheat" message.

thanks to a lot of the respnses on this board, i have a lot of good questions when i meet with the regional BMW rep on Tuesday. i'm very appreciative for all the help.

I have also learned of a good local BMW shop - Carr Industries. they have been very helpful as well.

Rick

[Ali]

yes that is BS, if your radiator hose messed up then the engine blowing is because of the radiator hose busting and making the engine overheat. How could it have been prevented by YOU when they're supposed to find a weak radiator hose. Get a good lawyer and take them to court, sue for the engine and lost time. This is BS. Oh yeah you can use the $11000 to get a used engine and keep the rest for yourself if you don't mind having a used motor.

[aceves]

Sorry to say that you are probably not going to win this one. Of corse it's preventable, you say you didn't get any indication of overheating well wouldn't the ass loads of smoke coming from under the hood clue you in ?
Not trying to be mean but if your expecting a "red flashing" message, well ....

[rickslade]

you may be right, but I stopped the car the second I saw the first sign of smoke...

[rickslade]

I'm certainly no expert, but i've been told that I should have received a red warning light indicating the over-heating condition prior to seeing the smoke. Can anybody confirm?

thanks,

[aceves]

Originally posted by rickslade
I'm certainly no expert, but i've been told that I should have received a red warning light indicating the over-heating condition prior to seeing the smoke. Can anybody confirm?

thanks,
Yes, if you look just to the right of your temp. gauge there is a little red square that illuminates red when the car gets hot, it is by no means though large, flashing, or anything of that sorts.

If you stopped as soon as you saw smoke, I certainly don't see how this could have burned up the engine, I think they are trying to shaft you, get a second opinion.

[BlackIce]

On my e36 there is no message. My car use to overheat once a month cause I had issues with my water pump and radiator. I wouldnt notice it at first but when it gets to 3/4 overheat you feel the car is sluggish. I guess that and looking at the guage is your only warning. Also you can smeel coolant burning.

[rickslade]

This just seemed to happen so fast. I was driving the interstate, things appered to be fine, then I heard what sounded like valves clicking. i then noticed a loss of power. I became concerned, looked at my instrumentation and saw no indications of problems. about 30 seconds later, i heard the clicking again and really started to feel the power loss. i looked in rear view mirror and saw the first sign of blue smoke from the rear of the car. i immediately pulled off the highway and thats when i saww all the blue smoke coming from under the hood.

i dont want BMW to pay for my ignorance, but i dont want to be mistreated either.

I'll let this group know what happens!

thanks again for all the help,

[tinman]

nightmare situation...what we all fear...I would think you could escalate this one until they cover the work. Would like to know how this ends up.

[BlackIce]

Originally posted by rickslade
This just seemed to happen so fast. I was driving the interstate, things appered to be fine, then I heard what sounded like valves clicking. i then noticed a loss of power. I became concerned, looked at my instrumentation and saw no indications of problems. about 30 seconds later, i heard the clicking again and really started to feel the power loss. i looked in rear view mirror and saw the first sign of blue smoke from the rear of the car. i immediately pulled off the highway and thats when i saww all the blue smoke coming from under the hood.

i dont want BMW to pay for my ignorance, but i dont want to be mistreated either.

I'll let this group know what happens!

thanks again for all the help,

Wait are you saying the guage that shows eng temp looked normal the whole time?

[rickslade]

yes, that it is my position. The dealer's position is that there diagnostics indicate the guages were working properly. I'v been told the DME fault codes will reveal actuality....

[bmwpower]

Originally posted by rickslade
yes, that it is my position. The dealer's position is that there diagnostics indicate the guages were working properly. I'v been told the DME fault codes will reveal actuality....

I would be very careful with taking your car back to the same dealer to read these codes. I'm sure they could "clear" them in an instant and then you'd have no data to back up your claim.

The ONLY thing that will prevent you from getting a new engine under warranty would be your knowledge of a potentially bad/old hose. For instance, you take the car in for service. The dealer informs you that your rad. hose looks bad, but you refuse to have them change it... then it bursts on the interstate. You car is very new for something like this to happen. It sounds like (1) a defective hose or (2) an idiot mechanic cranked down on the hose clamp enough to split the hose. In either case, it's not your fault. Fight it.

If your hose ruptures at that speed, there's not much you can do. Coolant is coming out so quickly that the engine heats up to dangerous levels very qiuckly. The best reaction time in the world would have a tough time noticing that change in temp.

[aceves]

If the smoke was indeed blue, that doesn't seem like coolant smoke but rather oil burining, this could be a clue that it was engine failure. It of course could of happened after loosing all the coolant.

[abakos]

When it first happens you should smell coolant and maybe see steam, not so much smoke...you might get some if antifreeze gets on the exhaust manifold.

If your first clue is loss of power and blue smoke, you're screwed. Blue smoke is oil, and if you're burning oil that fast, the motor is probably dead.

If the gauges are reading fine and this is happening, I don't see how it can be your fault.

Get a second opinion.

BTW- Brandon is right, those motors are relatively cheap. Don't let them screw you out of 11k.

[rickslade]

UPDATE: BMW and settled. We decided to split the cost of putting a new engine in the car along with new coolant system, etc, etc...

Rick

[joekannooks]

Good deal... I was going to say... fight it, fight it, fight it and take it to BMW NA if you have to. And always stick to your guns. Lawyer up if you have to. Just general advice in any case. I think they'd have <b>prove</b> that you screwed up for it to be out of warranty. And man, overheating resulting in you needing a new engine? I don't know, sounds a bit excessive, but who knows.

Splitting it is better... but I suppose it depends on the split.. ?

[bmwpower]

Originally posted by rickslade
UPDATE: BMW and settled. We decided to split the cost of putting a new engine in the car along with new coolant system, etc, etc...

Rick

You split the cost ?!? That still sounds like a lot of $$$. They wouldn't go for 100%, eh?

[rickslade]

yea, we were able to prove the red engine warning light did NOT illuminate because the circuitry burnt out and prevented me from getting the "glaring" message but they contend i should have seen the temperature gauge and prevented the engine from getting that hot. i still contended the temp gauge did not indicate it was over-heating but it came down to my word versus theres. Total cost was a little over $12k. I paid 6, BMW paid the rest. I got a new engine, 2 year warrantry, etc etc. I'm not real happy but felt it was the best deal I could get.... never know, but its over with and at days end I still love the car!

thanks for all the help to everbody,

Rick