2009 328i: Should run flats and maintenance hold me back?

[Dashel27]

In looking for a new car I'm leaning strongly towards the 2009 BMW 328i (with or without AWD I haven't decided yet). The only two reservations I have with it are the run flat tires and possible maintenance costs. This would be my first car in this class although I had driven my wifes 2004 G35 extensively (horrible in the snow, but fun car) before we got rid of it last year.

Based on my current daily driver, a 2001 VW Jetta with 57k miles on it, I wont be putting a lot of mileage on the car. What I'm trying to determine is:

a) How are the run flats? How many times will I need to replace the run flats in 60k miles of "average" driving. Mostly back roads for my 12 mile a day round trip commute, a few small potholes here and there, not aggressive driving... and a bit of highway driving, plus the occasional "fun" driving if I can find a good place for that.

I've read various accounts of them being rough to ride on, needing to be replaced after 10k miles, begin to make noise after a short time riding on them etc. Not sure if this is true or if it's older generation rft's that had these issues or what.

b) What kind of maintenance costs am I looking at for say 3 years after the warranty putting on maybe 8,000 miles per year? 500.00 a year? More? I want to know what to expect here.

Thanks for any insight.

[mryakan]

Well with 4 years/50k miles of free maintenance, why should that be an issue. Ah I see, you are worried after 4 years. Well who knows, depends on what problems your car exhibits, but since you don't drive much, it should not be a big deal.
Many people jump on the "I hate runflats" bandwagon blindly, they are not half bad, especially the 16"/17" sizes. And those who replace tires after 10K must be doing lots of burnouts.

P.S. You should have posted this in the e90 section, but someone will eventually tow it.

[Dashel27]

P.S. You should have posted this in the e90 section, but someone will eventually tow it.

Ah whoops, just noticed that myself. Thanks for the input though.

[ceb]

Well with 4 years/50k miles of free maintenance, why should that be an issue. Ah I see, you are worried after 4 years. Well who knows, depends on what problems your car exhibits, but since you don't drive much, it should not be a big deal.
Many people jump on the "I hate runflats" bandwagon blindly, they are not half bad, especially the 16"/17" sizes. And those who replace tires after 10K must be doing lots of burnouts.

P.S. You should have posted this in the e90 section, but someone will eventually tow it.


...I've had the identical ContiPro runflats on other cars before and noticed little difference. My last ContiPro runflats got about 45k miles before I sold the car...

[Beer Goggles]

Yeah whoever gets 10K on a set is driving hard...But I think the RFTs are worse than non-rfts, but with that said. You probably won't know what they were if you didn't read about them.

[04yfz]

You are better off switching to non run flats, they offer a better ride and are much less expesnive to replace. Runflats do wear fast, 12-15k is a reasonable estimate. You can save a lot on maintenance by using an indy mechanic or doing simple jobs yourself. Things such as brakes are very easy to do and can be done with basic tools, and save u lots of money since dealerships charge an arm and a leg for them.

[mryakan]

You are better off switching to non run flats, they offer a better ride and are much less expesnive to replace. Runflats do wear fast, 12-15k is a reasonable estimate. You can save a lot on maintenance by using an indy mechanic or doing simple jobs yourself. Things such as brakes are very easy to do and can be done with basic tools, and save u lots of money since dealerships charge an arm and a leg for them.
Who are these people who are only getting 12-15K on their tires? If you don't drive like a maniac 24/7, don't track the car and keep your alignment in check, you should get 20K easily with the high performance rubber and possibly double that with the all season rubber.
I also wonder if indy shops will invest in the equipment to reprogram these cars since almost everything seems to require programming updates. Also I wonder where they would be able to get those updates!:shifty

[jrjinsa]

I bought an $80 warranty for my runflats at Discount Tire *after* I bought my car. I didn't do the dealer warranty because it was way too pricey. Anyway, the after market warranty covers them for the life of the tire. I breathe easy.... At 14,000 now and zero issues with the tires. Don't worry about them.

[vrbaba]

I bought an $80 warranty for my runflats at Discount Tire *after* I bought my car. I didn't do the dealer warranty because it was way too pricey. Anyway, the after market warranty covers them for the life of the tire. I breathe easy.... At 14,000 now and zero issues with the tires. Don't worry about them.

How come DiscountTire put a warranty for your tires? I am assuming you didnt buy your tires from them and they are the ones that came with the car when you bought it. I cant seem to find anything on this online on their website. Seems worth it for $80 assuming they will replace the tire for free in case of a non-repairable flat?

[Dashel27]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I wont be driving like a maniac 24/7 so if I can get 30k miles out of them I'll be happy. I suppose if I also get snow tires that will prolong both sets.

[jrjinsa]

How come DiscountTire put a warranty for your tires? I am assuming you didnt buy your tires from them and they are the ones that came with the car when you bought it. I cant seem to find anything on this online on their website. Seems worth it for $80 assuming they will replace the tire for free in case of a non-repairable flat?

I don't think they advertise this insurance. Go in there *BEFORE* you have a problem and let them inspect your tires. See what they offer you. The fact I have been doing business with them for a decade may say something. I bought this same insurance on the Michelin tires that came with my truck.

[Jhunter]

How come DiscountTire put a warranty for your tires? I am assuming you didnt buy your tires from them and they are the ones that came with the car when you bought it. I cant seem to find anything on this online on their website. Seems worth it for $80 assuming they will replace the tire for free in case of a non-repairable flat?

I doubt they replace them for free. All tire warranties I have seen pay a portion of the replacement cost based on the remaining tread. The less tread you have left the less they pay. May have a deductible in there also. If you can afford a $40,000-$50,000 car there is no reason to pay to insure a couple hundred dollar item. Waste of money.

[mryakan]

I doubt they replace them for free. All tire warranties I have seen pay a portion of the replacement cost based on the remaining tread. The less tread you have left the less they pay. May have a deductible in there also. If you can afford a $40,000-$50,000 car there is no reason to pay to insure a couple hundred dollar item. Waste of money.
I do not understand this argument. Most people who have these 40-50k cars, are typically paying 400-800$ per month to lease/finance their car. One blown tire and a damaged rim is easily twice or more a monthly payment and some people may not be comfortable with that. It doesn't make sense for everyone, but if you live in an area with very bad roads and/or are susceptible to flats it may be a small price for peace of mind.
I bought one for this car and it already paid for itself. I am not sure if I will get it again for the next car, but it is a consideration.

[CHCcubs]

I was in the same boat as you when I was deciding on a car earlier this year. In the end, I chose my 328i xDrive. The tires feel fine to me in terms of ride and handling and I figure they should last me for most of my 4 year lease. I also got a tire/wheel warranty in case of any issues. Maintenance was also actually something that swayed me towards the 328i versus other cars as it is free for 4 years, while others (Mercedes, Audi, Infiniti, etc) do not offer this.

[Joeb427]

I was in the same boat as you when I was deciding on a car earlier this year. In the end, I chose my 328i xDrive. The tires feel fine to me in terms of ride and handling and I figure they should last me for most of my 4 year lease. I also got a tire/wheel warranty in case of any issues. Maintenance was also actually something that swayed me towards the 328i versus other cars as it is free for 4 years, while others (Mercedes, Audi, Infiniti, etc) do not offer this.



You probably won't get too many miles on the RFT before they start cupping,get loud etc.
A lot of people say that happens 10-15K miles.Other say 20-25K.
As far as free manitenance,it wasn't free.It was in the price of the car.
It basically amounts to a couple of sets of wipers,tire rotations,a brake fluid change and maybe 3-4 oil changes.
The free mantenance sounds better than it actually is.

[LeMans335xi]

I do not understand this argument. Most people who have these 40-50k cars, are typically paying 400-800$ per month to lease/finance their car. One blown tire and a damaged rim is easily twice or more a monthly payment and some people may not be comfortable with that. It doesn't make sense for everyone, but if you live in an area with very bad roads and/or are susceptible to flats it may be a small price for peace of mind.
I bought one for this car and it already paid for itself. I am not sure if I will get it again for the next car, but it is a consideration.

Right on the mark with this one. BMW offers a tire and wheel protection. This covers your rim as well as the tire. I will be buying this "warranty" because one flat and one bent rim means that it has already paid for itself for the most part.

[Joeb427]

Right on the mark with this one. BMW offers a tire and wheel protection. This covers your rim as well as the tire. I will be buying this "warranty" because one flat and one bent rim means that it has already paid for itself for the most part.
I believe there are limitations to the coverage.I don't have the coverage because I knew the RFT were coming off days after the purchase.
Anyway,I've read the coverage is limited to 4 tires and rims.Rims aren't replaced if bent unless they're leaking.I don't know how true those restrictions are but that's what I've read on other BMW forums.

[mryakan]

You probably won't get too many miles on the RFT before they start cupping,get loud etc.
A lot of people say that happens 10-15K miles.Other say 20-25K.
As far as free manitenance,it wasn't free.It was in the price of the car.
It basically amounts to a couple of sets of wipers,tire rotations,a brake fluid change and maybe 3-4 oil changes.
The free mantenance sounds better than it actually is.
Actually when you compare the price or a BMW to a similar car from competitors in its segment, you will see that the free maintenance is actually a very good deal. Many people also get a free brake job within their maintenance period (brakes are not available in the Canadian plan unfortunately). It starts to add up. And I bet you if the maintenance was not free, the car would still have been priced the same, they would not pass the savings on to you. The main reason BMW does this is 2 fold: 1- so that people (esp. ones who lease) don't run away from BMW for fear of maintenance costs and 2- Since the maintenance is free, more people will probably get it done and this benefits their CPO program.

[mryakan]

I believe there are limitations to the coverage.I don't have the coverage because I knew the RFT were coming off days after the purchase.
Anyway,I've read the coverage is limited to 4 tires and rims.Rims aren't replaced if bent unless they're leaking.I don't know how true those restrictions are but that's what I've read on other BMW forums.
Depends on your policy. Mine has pretty much no limitation as long as the tire/wheel leeks air. Any tire, any wheel and any damage. Curbing and accident damage is not included of course, it has to be a road Hazard such as pothole, nail, piece of metal, etc.

[Joeb427]

Depends on your policy. Mine has pretty much no limitation as long as the tire/wheel leeks air. Any tire, any wheel and any damage. Curbing and accident damage is not included of course, it has to be a road Hazard such as pothole, nail, piece of metal, etc.

Yeah,I mentioned the air leak.Does the policy have a time limit and/or tire and rim replacement limit?

[Dashel27]

You probably won't get too many miles on the RFT before they start cupping,get loud etc.
A lot of people say that happens 10-15K miles.Other say 20-25K.

This is what I'm concerned about. If I need to replace the tires every 10-15 or 20-25 that's a significant cost.




As far as free manitenance,it wasn't free.It was in the price of the car.
It basically amounts to a couple of sets of wipers,tire rotations,a brake fluid change and maybe 3-4 oil changes.
The free mantenance sounds better than it actually is.

True it's not free, but if you consider all cars need maintenance it's a hidden cost for other cars. It amounts to several hundred a year for 4 years which is substantial. You need to factor it in.

[Joeb427]

True it's not free, but if you consider all cars need maintenance it's a hidden cost for other cars. It amounts to several hundred a year for 4 years which is substantial. You need to factor it in.

Believe me,you'll already pay thousands for that several hundred.
BMW knows what they're doing.
Great advertising gimmick.:)

[mryakan]

This is what I'm concerned about. If I need to replace the tires every 10-15 or 20-25 that's a significant cost.

Unfortunately tire cost is something many people ignore when buying performance oriented cars. Unlike a Honda or Toyota or other non-performance oriented cars, tires on a BMW will never last as long. There are many factors that affect that and they are not specific to RFTs. Heck tires on my e36 never lasted past 20-25K miles and RFTs were not heard of back then. It is just something you have to account for. Now 10-15 is excessive and I have yet to find confirmed reports of someone getting this low a mileage from tires if they kept their aligment in check and did do burnouts on a regular basis. Typically you will go through a set of rears every 20K or so and a set of fronts every 30-40K depending on how you drive. Anything less is your fault not the tire's fault.

[Dashel27]

Believe me,you'll already paid thousands for that several hundred.
BMW knows what they're doing.
Great advertising gimmick.

Well the thing is if you're comparing say a BMW 328i and an Infiniti G37 and the costs come out to be 2500 apart, the question isnt "Is the BMW worth 2500 more than the Infiniti?" it's "Is the BMW worth 1000.00 more than the Infiniti" due to the free maintenance.

I have no doubt the cost is built into the price of the car and they're making money off of it, but at the end of the day you factor all that in when you make a decision.

[mryakan]

Well the thing is if you're comparing say a BMW 328i and an Infiniti G37 and the costs come out to be 2500 apart, the question isnt "Is the BMW worth 2500 more than the Infiniti?" it's "Is the BMW worth 1000.00 more than the Infiniti" due to the free maintenance.

I have no doubt the cost is built into the price of the car and they're making money off of it, but at the end of the day you factor all that in when you make a decision.
Well stated :buttrock.

[Joeb427]

Well the thing is if you're comparing say a BMW 328i and an Infiniti G37 and the costs come out to be 2500 apart, the question isnt "Is the BMW worth 2500 more than the Infiniti?" it's "Is the BMW worth 1000.00 more than the Infiniti" due to the free maintenance.

I have no doubt the cost is built into the price of the car and they're making money off of it, but at the end of the day you factor all that in when you make a decision.
For me free maintenance isn't a big deal.It's nice but not a decision maker for me.
I have to like the vehicle for other reasons.
Most people think the free maintenance is worth a lot more than it is.

[mryakan]

For me free maintenance isn't a big deal.It's nice but not a decision maker for me.
I have to like the vehicle for other reasons.
Most people think the free maintenance is worth a lot more than it is.
That may be true, but if someone likes both cars and they are close in cost, then it becomes a big influence in their decision. Maybe you or I are not in that boat, but many are.
To me, the free maintenance is just like a PS3 bundle. If it costs the same as a standalone PS3 at another store, but comes with a free game, I will take it, even though I may not like or play that game. What it actually cost the store or supplier is not part of my decision making process nor does it affect me.

[Joeb427]

That may be true, but if someone likes both cars and they are close in cost, then it becomes a big influence in their decision. Maybe you or I are not in that boat, but many are.
To me, the free maintenance is just like a PS3 bundle. If it costs the same as a standalone PS3 at another store, but comes with a free game, I will take it, even though I may not like or play that game.

No doubt you're correct but I buy the vehicle because of the vehicle characteristics and not the added fluff.:)

[mryakan]

No doubt you're correct but I buy the vehicle because of the vehicle characteristics and not the added fluff.:)
Me too, but would you rather have that fluff or not assuming you would pay the same anyway? That is how I look at it. The price of a BMW is more driven by its competitors and the market rather than what it costs, so if they didn't see an advantage in having the free maintenance, they will remove it in a heartbeat and not reduce the MSRP by a penny.

[Joeb427]

Me too, but would you rather have that fluff or not assuming you would pay the same anyway? That is how I look at it. The price of a BMW is more driven by its competitors and the market rather than what it costs, so if they didn't see an advantage in having the free maintenance, they will remove it in a heartbeat and not reduce the MSRP by a penny.

Actually the 3 Series is higher priced than any other cars in it's class.
I'd rather have the cheaper cost than free maintenance.You do realize if BMW is saving you say $800 in free maintenance,you're probably paying much more than that in the cost of the car.People get sucked into that free maintenance.
For me the only other issue that's important is low cost financing and/or rebates which can save a buyer thousands in interest cost and purchase cost.That's not fluff.That 1.9% is meat whether you can pay cash or not! :)

[mryakan]

Actually the 3 Series is higher priced than any other cars in it's class.

That's news to me. Who are you considering as competitors in the same class and how are you configuring and comparing the cars. Things may be different in Canada, but I am sure last time I shopped around, the Bimmer was on the lower end, esp. compared to Audi, MB. Maybe Acura or Infinit was a bit cheaper but you had one engine choice and you had to compare to a 335, not what I was looking for.

[Joeb427]

That's news to me. Who are you considering as competitors in the same class and how are you configuring and comparing the cars. Things may be different in Canada, but I am sure last time I shopped around, the Bimmer was on the lower end, esp. compared to Audi, MB. Maybe Acura or Infinit was a bit cheaper but you had one engine choice and you had to compare to a 335, not what I was looking for.

I'm going by car magazine articles and edmunds.com who has one of the cons as pricey for the 3 Series.
The 335 is even worse.Even a higher cost than the '10 S4 comparably equipped.

[mryakan]

I'm going by car magazine articles and edmunds.com who has one of the cons as pricey for the 3 Series.
The 335 is even worse.Even a higher cost than the '10 S4 comparably equipped.
Don't go by information from reviews, they configure their cars in ways not many people do. I don't see many people here have every single option selected on their 335s. Who needs adaptive cruise or active steering or even HD radio. Configure your car yourself for what you want and I'd be surprised if you find the Audi or MB cheaper for comparable options and engine choice. As I said, Acura and Infiniti are a bit cheaper since they only offer you one choice of engine so their manufacturing costs are less, that is how they compete. But if you are not willing to pay for a high end model, then you are out of luck with them. You can still get a C230 or A4 2.0T or 323/328 with just the options you want and put the rest of your money into your 401K.

[Jhunter]

I do not understand this argument. Most people who have these 40-50k cars, are typically paying 400-800$ per month to lease/finance their car. One blown tire and a damaged rim is easily twice or more a monthly payment and some people may not be comfortable with that. It doesn't make sense for everyone, but if you live in an area with very bad roads and/or are susceptible to flats it may be a small price for peace of mind.
I bought one for this car and it already paid for itself. I am not sure if I will get it again for the next car, but it is a consideration.

Basic principle of insurance, you pay a premium that is greater than the expected benefit based on probability in order to protect yourself against the remote chance of a catastrophic loss. The cost of a new wheel or tire while a PITA, should not be that big a deal for someone who can afford an expensive car, therefore, not something you need to buy insurance for. With any type of insurance, the vast majority of customers pay more than they receive back through claims, that how insurnance companies pay commissions and make lots of money.

[mryakan]

Basic principle of insurance, you pay a premium that is greater than the expected benefit based on probability in order to protect yourself against the remote chance of a catastrophic loss. The cost of a new wheel or tire while a PITA, should not be that big a deal for someone who can afford an expensive car, therefore, not something you need to buy insurance for. With any type of insurance, the vast majority of customers pay more than they receive back through claims, that how insurnance companies pay commissions and make lots of money.

Thanks for the free "How Insurance works" course, but I think everyone knows it by heart by now. In fact we probably should be paying you since you have been giving it on a regular basis here for the past few years ;).

Anyway jokes aside :) (and please do not be upset, I like to joke with some you guys), I understand what you are saying, but you may be missing a couple of points here:
1- It is sometimes not completely about the money. I mean people who are buying a BMW are not buying it out of necessity, it is a luxury item and they pay > 500$ per month for it mainly because it makes them feel better/happier/etc. To some, insurance has the same effect. So spending 500$ over 3 years to feel good is nothing compared to spending that much a month for the same reason. Heck some people pay that much in one night :shifty.

2- From a financial perspective, if you study statistics, you will learn that there are always outliers. Some people know from experience that they are more susceptible to certain events, some call it bad luck, others call it karma, call it what you wish. Those people will actually benefit from insurance. Now neither I nor you can judge if anyone here is an outlier, but each person can judge for themselves and thus can use insurance to their advantage.

I will give you an example. I learned from experience that for some reason, bluetooth headsets do not last more than a year with me for some reason. Maybe because I am unlucky, or maybe because I am clumsy and drop them all the time. Anyway, after replacing a couple at my own expense, I decided to get the extended store warranty on my next one. Sure enough it fell apart after a year. I paid 10$ for the extended warranty and after a year I got a brand new 50$ headset. I also purchased the extended warranty at that time. Now this headset is falling apart and soon enough I will cash my 10$ warranty for another 50$ headset. And no I am being fraudulent or abusive, these are things that are happening through normal use. But I figured out I can benefit from a program the store offers. Now I know some other people are paying for replacing my headset because they never cash in on their warranty, but that is as you explained very well how insurance works. Some people can end up with the advantage.

In conclusion, I do not recommend that someone buy or not buy insurance, I always recommend that they study their own case and make their own decision. The world goes on.

[acmaui]

I think a lot of people miss the point. I'll generalize here, but most of us are not so well off and it's a stretch to reach a BMW 3 series. We can all afford a Honda and what ever maintenance comes it's way, but what we want is the car that makes are blood stir, the BMW. So the value of the warranty is a factor when we buy, because we can at least know what our payment is four years and not have to worry about the extra cost of the unknown and those forth year parts failures. I actually paid cash for my 335icv and I love that the fact that all I have to worry about for the next four years is not wrecking it on a hot corner. Many here are saying that BMW added the cost of service into the price, but what about that forth year failures that other manufacturers' warranties don't cover? I like to think, and feel free to insert your unsubstantiated facts and opinions here, that BMW offers the warranty not as a gimmick, but because they know they built them right. Obviously, since other manufacturers' aren't doing the same say much about their products maintenance/warranty cost versus their price.

[CHCcubs]

That's news to me. Who are you considering as competitors in the same class and how are you configuring and comparing the cars. Things may be different in Canada, but I am sure last time I shopped around, the Bimmer was on the lower end, esp. compared to Audi, MB. Maybe Acura or Infinit was a bit cheaper but you had one engine choice and you had to compare to a 335, not what I was looking for.

Agreed, when I was shopping for a car, the 328i xDrive was similarly priced to the other cars I was looking at (Audi A4 2.0T, MB C300 4matic, G37X, Acura TL-SH AWD) in spite of it having free maintenance. Had it been significantly more I may have thought twice about the free maintenance being a benefit.

[Jhunter]

Thanks for the free "How Insurance works" course, but I think everyone knows it by heart by now. In fact we probably should be paying you since you have been giving it on a regular basis here for the past few years ;).

Anyway jokes aside :) (and please do not be upset, I like to joke with some you guys), I understand what you are saying, but you may be missing a couple of points here:
1- It is sometimes not completely about the money. I mean people who are buying a BMW are not buying it out of necessity, it is a luxury item and they pay > 500$ per month for it mainly because it makes them feel better/happier/etc. To some, insurance has the same effect. So spending 500$ over 3 years to feel good is nothing compared to spending that much a month for the same reason. Heck some people pay that much in one night :shifty.

2- From a financial perspective, if you study statistics, you will learn that there are always outliers. Some people know from experience that they are more susceptible to certain events, some call it bad luck, others call it karma, call it what you wish. Those people will actually benefit from insurance. Now neither I nor you can judge if anyone here is an outlier, but each person can judge for themselves and thus can use insurance to their advantage.

I will give you an example. I learned from experience that for some reason, bluetooth headsets do not last more than a year with me for some reason. Maybe because I am unlucky, or maybe because I am clumsy and drop them all the time. Anyway, after replacing a couple at my own expense, I decided to get the extended store warranty on my next one. Sure enough it fell apart after a year. I paid 10$ for the extended warranty and after a year I got a brand new 50$ headset. I also purchased the extended warranty at that time. Now this headset is falling apart and soon enough I will cash my 10$ warranty for another 50$ headset. And no I am being fraudulent or abusive, these are things that are happening through normal use. But I figured out I can benefit from a program the store offers. Now I know some other people are paying for replacing my headset because they never cash in on their warranty, but that is as you explained very well how insurance works. Some people can end up with the advantage.

In conclusion, I do not recommend that someone buy or not buy insurance, I always recommend that they study their own case and make their own decision. The world goes on.

I know I may have posted my "don't insure a risk you can afford to bear" argument more than once. :) But I constantly see new threads and questions on buying warranties for whatever. I am a financial professional so that is how I look at things. Believing you are an outlier aside, there is no way you can financially justify these products. The risk of hitting a pot hole and damaging a tire tomorrow isn't going to keep me up tonight. Getting paid for financial advice is what I do, so feel free to send payment and I'll keep the advice coming!;)

[mryakan]

I know I may have posted my "don't insure a risk you can afford to bear" argument more than once. :) But I constantly see new threads and questions on buying warranties for whatever. I am a financial professional so that is how I look at things. Believing you are an outlier aside, there is no way you can financially justify these products. The risk of hitting a pot hole and damaging a tire tomorrow isn't going to keep me up tonight. Getting paid for financial advice is what I do, so feel free to send payment and I'll keep the advice coming!;)

Fair enough, your cheque is in the mail :) :shifty