Are the air conditioners really that bad?

[M3Nut]

Every other car I've owned has had colder AC than the M. Where's the weakpoint? Condenser too small?

A black car with black interior combined with 100+ degrees is probably not helping.

[Aludew5]

when i bought the car i was thinking "finally, a 6cylndr bmw sedan...this thing is gonna have awsome AC"

negative.

now it makes all kinds of noise and drains rpms off the motor when it's on. i think my compressor is on the verge of lock up or it needs a new clutch/bearing

[Ron97M3]

What year M3? I wish people would puit that in their Bio here.

Set the temp on lowest 60 degrees.
Go manual mode with the air out the front vents only.
The center vent on blue of course.

I take it your living in Spokane or inland Washington where it's 100 degrees.
Of course R-134a doesn't work as well as pre 1993 R-12.

Perhaps you need to take it in for a recharge service. Worth a try.
I know the local oil change places evacuate and recharge for about $100 here.

GM makes the coldest FRIGIDAIRE Auto AC in my opinion.
My son's 1995 Saturn works great :)
Othr son's 2002 Saturn also works great :)
No recharging or service on those ever.

[Chokingdogs]

Of course R-134a doesn't work as well as pre 1993 R-12.

Well........

That's a bit of a myth, an auto-urban legend, that got its start when the R134 retrofits started coming out.

I was in the automotive aftermarket back then, selling parts, and I remember all the shops complaining about that and how R134 SUX!

A "retro-fit" back then was nothing more than an evap and flush of the existing system, changing out the soft parts, receiver/dryer, expansion valve to R134 spec ones, then filling up with R134.

Wasn't long before the A/C aftermarket manufacturers ( Everco, etc. ) started sending out TSBs on how to properly retro-fit an R12 system to R134. Those indicated that the evaporator and condenser needed to be swapped as well. That really added to the cost of a retro-fit, and since a lot of people are cheap, they didn't opt for that. Thus the legend really took off.

My memory is not as good as it used to be, so the following could be the reverse of what it should be. IIRC, an R134 system in order to cool as close to an R12 system as possible ( in a retro-fit scenario ), needs more volume and to operate at a higher pressure. I could have that ass-backwards, but the end result is the same. For a given car, one system needs more coolant and higher pressure than the other. A proper retro-fit would get R134 to within a few degrees of the R12 system it replaced, not the double digit off catastrophies that were common early on.

All that said, a POORLY designed R134 wont be as good as even a marginal R12 one. When I first started looking at an E36 back in 99/2000, that was one single common complaint about them, the AC sucked! It really makes no difference that R134 is in our cars, rather it's the overall design of the system that makes it poor when compared to other cars.

[blak blur]

I'm about to change my cabin filter. Probably has origional. Maybe that is part of your problem.

[Estrl M3]

Put the AC on auto turn the car off then the next time you gotta go somewhere aim your remote start out the window 10 mins before you leave.

[Ron97M3]

I'm about to change my cabin filter. Probably has origional. Maybe that is part of your problem.

I had 95,000 on an original air filter, leaves and stuff came out with that filter.
It didn't seem to make any difference.

The cabin filter is a real pain to replace in a 96+ obd-II M3. Scariest part is where you must unclip (can't see clip) and move a junction-wiring patch panel.

There is a DIY thread recently where someone is saying they have an easier way by cutting some plastic to make the filter bend they change it without
removing the glove box and moving the wires. I would advise you do it that way. Otherwise paying somebody a $100 to change the air filter might be a good deal. Looks real scary with the glove box, air ducting out.

[hcaleman]

I always feel like mine is just too cold, go figure.

[Ron97M3]

I always feel like mine is just too cold, go figure.

R-134s doesn't cool all that well when the temp differential is more than 20 or 25 degrees.

At 90 outside ... 70 is just fine.
At 100 outside .... 80 isn't so good.
At 110 outside .... 85 really isn't so good .... unless you step outside.

When you really need it ... it isn't so good.

[M3Nut]

Last month a new compressor was installed with a new expansion valve and new dryer. System was flushed and recharged and a new cabin filter installed.

It's as cold as it's ever was which is...not very (as compared to say GM as Ron has mentioned above or either of our other cars a Lexus and Acura).

Would the FDM have an impact on AC cooling efficiency?


R-134s doesn't cool all that well when the temp differential is more than 20 or 25 degrees.

At 90 outside ... 70 is just fine.
At 100 outside .... 80 isn't so good.
At 110 outside .... 85 really isn't so good .... unless you step outside.

When you really need it ... it isn't so good.

That might explain things perfectly. The E36 system just isn't well designed for environs where the temps are well north of 90 deg, like yesterday when we hit 107.

[E30wheelman]

I just replaced the micro filter on my 97 M3 (what a PITA) now i have better air flow. However, the COLD is still not what I expect (also just evacuated and recharged). In comparison the A/C in my wife's 2000 528 is so much better, cools up really quick even on the hottest days. I also don't feel as much engine load w/ the 528 as opposed to the M3.

[Ron97M3]

What does FDM mean?
There is a effective temperature differential for sure.

My wife has a 2004 pt cruiser turbo. We bought that car new.
It's airconditioning was super cold until a MONKEY that changed the oil at the dealership must have leaned on the AC hoses causing the AC to leak out.
Had to wait for new AC hoses and then the the system was recharged but it isn't as good now. Cold but not super cold.

I have a rattle from my M3 AC compressor area. I believe it's my AC clutch but it may be the compressor. I actually have studied the idea of learning to DIY our AC system. Here is the deal ...

If someone cracks your virgin AC system and leaves some moisture in it the water combines with the R-134a to form acid and slowly eats the system from the inside out. Two years later or more it's disaster?

If someone adds too much compressor-system oil then that displaces r-134a for cooling and results in no so much cool (80% max cool?). Of course too little oil and your compressor can fail early.

In days of old AC experts apparently charged AC system by measuring heat differentials in working system ... now maybe they rely on a machine, so perhaps the machine under charges it a little or maybe it's overcharged?

A lot of ways to be less then perfect perhaps and for a AC system to not be it's best. Guess when we buy a new car we should do a AC cold measurement on a known temperature day. Then years later after AC service use that as a reference of perfection?

So what I know is having your virgin-oem AC system cracked is risky and likely it will not be as good as from the factory. Go figure.

[DBVille]

Would the FDM have an impact on AC cooling efficiency?

Uhh....if you mean Fan Delete Mod....Well, yeah. I would think that at low speeds, less air flow across the condenser would, sort of, negatively impact the AC performance.

At speed (15 mph?), not so much.

[Ron97M3]

I just replaced the micro filter on my 97 M3 (what a PITA) now i have better air flow. However, the COLD is still not what I expect (also just evacuated and recharged). In comparison the A/C in my wife's 2000 528 is so much better, cools up really quick even on the hottest days. I also don't feel as much engine load w/ the 528 as opposed to the M3.

Is your wife's AC system a virgin? I bet it is!

[Skunk]

I just said eff it and dont even use A/C. its about 116 out today and for another 6 weeks i think.
I have the old a/c whine and weak cooling.
I dont like to run it mainly because the car strains pretty bad and i dont want anything to go pop. gotta really nurse this thing until i can start going outside again in 2 months.

[E30wheelman]

Is your wife's AC system a virgin? I bet it is!

could be, the car was a CPO. anybody here have an M3 with a virgin A/C system?

[Ron97M3]

Well........
That's a bit of a myth, an auto-urban legend, that got its start when the R134 retrofits started coming out.


A perfect R-12 system will cool better on the hotest days than a perfect r-134s system. R-12 is a better cooling agent ... a scientific fact. They went with R-134a for the ozone layer. No dubt retrofitting a R-12 system wasn't the best use for R-134a because it wasn't designed for it.

But ... there are all kinds of factors beyond the r-134a and r-12.

One is how well the system is designed, another is if the system is correctly
filled with oil and charged. One can assume they do this right at the factory and then there is the imperfect refill elsewhere.


anybody here have an M3 with a virgin A/C system?

Good question!

[hcaleman]

R134a held up fine for me in Dubai in my Audi. 130+ outside in the summer. Here in VA it doesn't really top 100 so no worries for me here I suppose.

[blak blur]

I must admit I've been dissappointed in my A/C in comparison to my past (newer) BMWs.
I have a DIY thread bookmarked but I don't think it's the easiest way to change filter in '98 E36. If someone has the easier way mentioned above please post.

[JETninja]

Mine works fine, maybe I have more tolerance (I am at 50 still a skinny dude! :D ) but even in 111 degree summer days, A/C is nice and cold. Did a 108 degree Auto-X last Summer and it was a life saver between rounds. I do run FDM and did charge it myself early last year.

[TillRodsFly]

Granted, I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've used my A/C as I usually like to drive with the windows down reguardless of how hot it is, the few times I have used it (being stuck in traffic on a uber hot day), it always seemed to cool the car down fine.

[kornkid8600]

Mine worked flawlessly on a 118 degree day.

[Balthazarr]

I run mine just to keep the system workable, so we're talking about half a dozen times during the summer and less during the winter.

[Hugo]

Mine was cold but blew as hard as a mouse with lung cancer. Changed the cabin filter and thought it was a new car.

[JJCTHE1]

who has a link to the easy DIY cabin filter change for an OBDII car??

[fun2drive]

My M3/4 worked fine in Tampa today with an outside temp on the payment of 100 F and extremely high humidity.
Stock car I have owned since 2000 and the AC has always worked well.
Plenty cold after overcoming a heat soaked car...

[M3Nut]

Has anyone taken a reading from a digital thermometer to their AC vent? If so, what were your readings and what was the outside air temperature? Of course it'd should make a difference too if you were at idle or moving.

[Ron97M3]

Has anyone taken a reading from a digital thermometer to their AC vent? If so, what were your readings and what was the outside air temperature? Of course it'd should make a difference too if you were at idle or moving.

Think I read that 45 degrees was a good temp in the vent after the AC has been running for 10 minutes.

I have a multiimeter with a temp probe perhaps that will do it. I will try reading the 3 cars I have tomorrow and post the results. I will do it like in the middle of the day if possible too.

[fun2drive]

Your AC is supposed to read 38-42 F with the fan on high after it is cooling down.
Ambient temps should have an affect on that but that is out of the book on car AC systems for R-134. I have checked mine a couple times and it will easily hit the 42 F number. Not in this heat today I don't think but at 80 F I recall it doing so...

[LAvision]

Mines works well and cools down the car nicely, but it certainly isnt a powerful A/C.

[M3Nut]

Here are my numbers I took tonight both at 40 mph.

56.7 degrees - outside temp 96 degrees - @ idle 58.5 degrees

then later

51.4 degrees - outside temp 84 degrees

[WK446]

Hugo: You made my sides hurt with that comment. Bravo! :)


Mine was cold but blew as hard as a mouse with lung cancer. Changed the cabin filter and thought it was a new car.

[RRSperry]

The E36 ac is adequate, nothing more. I had a Toyota 4 Runner that could freeze meat. There just seems to be something about German engineers. They just don't get air conditioning, and cup holders...lol

[najnad]

I am currently having issues with my A/C not performing well when outside temp rises above 90 or so. I am installing a mishimoto aluminium radiator and 16" spal fan in hopes of helping the A/C (and engine) keep cool.

Part of my problem (I think, besides old radiator) is that I have a euro 6-speed trans installed => lower cruising rpms on the highway = poorer A/C performance?

Did the euro cars have a different A/C compressor to compensate for lower cruising rpms with the 6-speed?

[Phore]

Drove my friend's brand new honda the other day and found a Max A/C button, so I pushed it and was the happiest person ever.

The AC in my car is meh, but it helps out a lot on ridiculously hot summer days. Still gotta change out my cabin air filter.

[slowerE30]

Guaranteed swamp ass every drive. Its been that way since the early 90s.

[Chokingdogs]

The E36 ac is adequate, nothing more. I had a Toyota 4 Runner that could freeze meat. There just seems to be something about German engineers. They just don't get air conditioning, and cup holders...lol

Last February my neighbor bought a Mercedes S550, and that thing's A/C will put frost on the windows.....

Maybe it was residual Chrysler influence? I did notice several cupholders......

[hcaleman]

Maybe it was residual Chrysler influence? I did notice several cupholders......
HA... big gulp sized?

[E36BMW3series]

I'm about to change my cabin filter. Probably has origional. Maybe that is part of your problem.

My thoughts exactly.

Mine works fine, blows cold air whenever I need it to.

I hardly ever use it though. . . .

[Ron97M3]

Last February my neighbor bought a Mercedes S550, and that thing's A/C will put frost on the windows.....


Well the S550 is a high end car and she is :)a Virgin in her prime. Got to blow hot and cold very well of course.

It's 73 degrees near the coast in SoCal here at 9:18am.

I just got done testing the AC temp on my 97 M3 and my son's 2002 Saturn SL.
They both showed similar numbers.

Using the coldest possible settings and vents ....

When I first started my M3 the AC temp was 45 after 5 minutes or so it rose to 48. Opening all vents cost 2 more degrees at the center vent so 50 then.

My son's Saturn was a constant 48 or 49, seemed his fan blows a bit more air perhaps.

[JJCTHE1]

I never use my AC only to cycle it to keep it going, Im going to change my cabin filter this weekend, my car only has 60k miles so I bet its original. I am wondering if its going to do anything. The AC in the car is weak, but its weak in all of them i think not just mine.

[Ron97M3]

I never use my AC only to cycle it to keep it going, Im going to change my cabin filter this weekend, my car only has 60k miles so I bet its original. I am wondering if its going to do anything. The AC in the car is weak, but its weak in all of them i think not just mine.

Maybe it's that the blower isn't that strong. On hot days I close off the two passenger vents and have the central vent on me. I have driven up the central valley here when it is 100 degrees outside and it's like 78 in the car, it's
a lot better then outside but not super cold.

I think most car AC is like this ... r-134a isn't that good when it's hot ... and BMW AC design isn't that good either.

[geoffm3]

My car's black/black. When it's heat soaked for a bit it takes forever to cool off. If I remember to do it, putting up a window shade on the windshield makes a big difference.

[Ron97M3]

My car's black/black. When it's heat soaked for a bit it takes forever to cool off. If I remember to do it, putting up a window shade on the windshield makes a big difference.

I won't have a black car for that reason. A heat sink.

[geoffm3]

I won't have a black car for that reason. A heat sink.

It looks so good when it's clean though! Which these days is almost never since it's a DD. When I had another car to drive on wet days it could stay looking good for months at a time. :(

[slowerE30]

A e36M3 is no car to be driven in Tampa.

[Hugo]

who has a link to the easy DIY cabin filter change for an OBDII car??

Remove glove box.
Remove trim around it.
Get under dash.
Pull filter tray.
Bust your knuckles in the process.
Put new filter in.
Reinstall glove box.
Enjoy mucho cfm.

[JJCTHE1]

A e36M3 is no car to be driven in Tampa.

lol why not?????

[slowerE30]

Becuase the AC is too damn weak for Tampa.

My dad has a E36 M with 50k original miles and in perfect condition.

There isnt enough "juice" coming out those vents no way to cut it.

Cars need cooling in multiple directions not only the dash.

Leather seats guaranteed to induce SWAMP ASS.

A 1998 Corolla has a equally as good AC system.