Don't shoot me, ford question.

[mlambert831]

So, my family picked up a '94 Ford Ranger with all kinds of issues for a couple hundred bucks as a beater.

It was taken in to the shop (not by me.) to get a few things fixed. I never drive the damned thing so I'm not sure what exactly was planned, but we got the car back with a new ignition, as well as what I'm told was a completely rewired wiring harness.

The wiring harness getting re-done was due to the blinkers not blinking. Just turning on, and staying lit. Could this have been just a Thermal Flasher? (3$ part...)

As far as the ignition goes, if I understand correctly they were starting the car with a screwdriver. The key broke off in the ignition. Could they not have pulled the key out? I swear with a set of the right tools I could have done it. If we got it out i'm sure we could get a spare made, it's not chipped.


To sum up the question, do I get to laugh at my brother for taking his ford to a dealer only to get ripped off in all different ways because he didn't let me go with him like I had asked to?

[BavarianFanatic]

Well it's possible the signals weren't working due to a grounding issue which could result from a harness issue.

By new ignition, do you mean new ignition switch? If that's the case, it's probably cheaper for the dealer to just swap the part than to have the tech try to fish the broken key out. It's also likely there was some other issue that caused the key to break on the first place.

In summary, yes go tell your brother that you could have done everything for $8.74 and about an hours worth of time.

[mlambert831]

They ended up spending about 800$ at the dealer for these repairs. It was the ignition switch that got replaced. I just looked at the thermal flasher and it looks brand new. Once i find a way to get the hood up without breaking it I'm going to see if they even did any work on the wires. (The pop latch for the hood is broken!)

[4500 RPM]

Dude, there's a whole Off Topic forum where this belongs.

[E34nication]

They ended up spending about 800$ at the dealer for these repairs. It was the ignition switch that got replaced. I just looked at the thermal flasher and it looks brand new. Once i find a way to get the hood up without breaking it I'm going to see if they even did any work on the wires. (The pop latch for the hood is broken!)

Don't mind Denton. He's new around here. Spending $800 on a '94 Ford Ranger at the dealership is ridiculous no matter what was done to it.

[Binjammin]

So, my family picked up a '94 Ford Ranger with all kinds of issues for a couple hundred bucks as a beater.

It was taken in to the shop (not by me.) to get a few things fixed. I never drive the damned thing so I'm not sure what exactly was planned, but we got the car back with a new ignition, as well as what I'm told was a completely rewired wiring harness.

The wiring harness getting re-done was due to the blinkers not blinking. Just turning on, and staying lit. Could this have been just a Thermal Flasher? (3$ part...)

As far as the ignition goes, if I understand correctly they were starting the car with a screwdriver. The key broke off in the ignition. Could they not have pulled the key out? I swear with a set of the right tools I could have done it. If we got it out i'm sure we could get a spare made, it's not chipped.


To sum up the question, do I get to laugh at my brother for taking his ford to a dealer only to get ripped off in all different ways because he didn't let me go with him like I had asked to?

Before this gets towed, I'll chime in. I've seen a few fords that have had flasher wiring harness fires. Nothing has electrical fires like a ford, it's amazing. People wonder why I hate them so much but really, go to the junkyard and look at all the burned out fords. Then get underneath the ones that aren't burned and see how rotted out they are. Ugh...

Anyway, it's entirely possible you needed a new dash harness due to a relay meltdown.

So far as the ignition goes, do you really need to feel that superior to your brother that you'd make him feel badly for taking car of his hooptie? You MAY have been able to get the broken off piece of key out, but it might have been difficult, especially if the broken part were twisted. If you couldn't get it out you would have had to drill the lock cylinder out, as you need the key to retract the locking pin inside the cylinder.

Be happy for him having a working truck. He could probably have saved a few bucks going elsewhere, but didn't. If he's ok with it, you should be too.

[zubbie]

I'm with Binj.

Owned an F150 once (just once)
rust, electrical issues, disposable suspension parts

$800 for a Ford at the dealer is a steal...(must be an honest dealer)

IBT Tow

http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/scott_lapachinsky/2004/apr/peterbilt_tow_truck_red03.jpg

[Trevor M]

I seriously think Ford hired the Antichrist to stand at the door and bless each and every vehicle's electrical system as they rolled off the line. Their engineers can't possibly be that stupid. Undersized wires, weak connectors that can't carry the current and the list goes on.
The only reason I still have a Ford is because the drive train is pretty bulletproof (knock on wood).

And if you think BMW has high prices for replacement parts, you've obviously never bellied up to a Ford parts counter.
The best thing about Fords is there are thousands in the bone yards and fixing them is very cheap if you do everything yourself.

[KBHumphrey]

I've had many Fords in my life, mostly Mustangs. Back in college (late 80s) I had a T-Bird as my winter beater. Driving it one day back to school, the thing died suddenly while driving. I thought the battery negative terminal had touched up against the body (happened one other time because I didn't have it strapped down.) Pull the car over on the side of a 4-lane, 40mph road. Pop the hood. Flames shoot up at me.

Instinctively I turned, ran about 20yards into the apt yards behind the road and did my best CHIPs/TJ Hooker barrel roll to avoid the explosion.

But it didn't blow up. It just burned steadily and after about 5 mins of sitting in someone's lawn I started to feel pretty stupid. So I stood up and waited for the fire truck to come, splash some powder on the engine, and drive away.

That's all I have to say about Fords. I wish Mustangs were made by someone else. Like Lexus.

[hellohi]

If I had a gun that would shoot through the internet, you would be shot, right now.

[Binjammin]

I've had many Fords in my life, mostly Mustangs. Back in college (late 80s) I had a T-Bird as my winter beater. Driving it one day back to school, the thing died suddenly while driving. I thought the battery negative terminal had touched up against the body (happened one other time because I didn't have it strapped down.) Pull the car over on the side of a 4-lane, 40mph road. Pop the hood. Flames shoot up at me.

Instinctively I turned, ran about 20yards into the apt yards behind the road and did my best CHIPs/TJ Hooker barrel roll to avoid the explosion.

But it didn't blow up. It just burned steadily and after about 5 mins of sitting in someone's lawn I started to feel pretty stupid. So I stood up and waited for the fire truck to come, splash some powder on the engine, and drive away.

That's all I have to say about Fords. I wish Mustangs were made by someone else. Like Lexus.

Just FYI, the negative side of the battery is connected to the body. You may be thinking of the positive terminal.

Also, if you ever suspect you have a fire underhood don't pop the hood. It allows a LOT more oxygen to flow under the hood and just feeds the fire.



If I had a gun that would shoot through the internet, you would be shot, right now.

Who?

[hellohi]

look at the title binj

[Chinman]

Ford has recalled more vechicles due to fires than BMW has even built.
After the wonderful cruise control issue (fire) in the trucks a couple of years ago, the DOT should have banned them from making vehicles.

[KBHumphrey]

Also, if you ever suspect you have a fire underhood don't pop the hood. It allows a LOT more oxygen to flow under the hood and just feeds the fire.


NOW you tell me? Where the hell were you when I was 20, rolling and diving like Ponch in some poor schmuck's lawn?

[Binjammin]

Ford has recalled more vechicles due to fires than BMW has even built.
After the wonderful cruise control issue (fire) in the trucks a couple of years ago, the DOT should have banned them from making vehicles.

Don't forget headlight switch fires, or fuel injector o-ring leak driven fires. Or the rest of the multitude of fire causes.

Even more amazing than their ability to burst into flame is the speed with which they rust. I've seen so many fords that we've tried to put on the lift, the lift goes up and the car doesn't. Crunch ensues.


NOW you tell me? Where the hell were you when I was 20, rolling and diving like Ponch in some poor schmuck's lawn?


Deprived of humor wherever I was :D

[BavarianFanatic]

I'm with Binj.

Owned an F150 once (just once)
rust, electrical issues, disposable suspension parts

$800 for a Ford at the dealer is a steal...(must be an honest dealer)



:lol THIS made me laugh! Because BMW suspensions are so bulletproof and last forever...uhh wait a minute...

A whole lot of Ford hatin' going on in here. In all seriousness, there is no question or shadow of a doubt that ALL of the American manufacturers built crap for many, many DECADES. No arguments there. BUT, I have to say that over the last few years they've all been making huge strides towards building not-crap again.

My eclectic taste and inability to stop buying new vehicles means I now have two Fords in the fleet. An '07 Mustang and an '07 Expedition EL. Both have been largely trouble free. The Expedition required a trans program software update (my request) because it was hunting a bit too much for my taste. It was a first year trans so that's to be expected. Turns out it was optimized for CAFE which was a bit too conservative for my liking. It now has 37k and hasn't had a single other issue. The Mustang is about to roll over 30k hard-driven miles and had a bad brake master reservoir level sensor. That's it. 67k miles in two years and technically only a single minor failure. Not too shabby. Granted my sample is very small but it's very different from past experiences with many different makes.

And be careful with any sort of hating of non-BMWs since we all live in a big old glass house with our beloved cars that require replacement of the entire cooling system as a maintenance item, have automatic transmissions that take a shit if you idle your engine for more than 30 seconds, that require bodywork because the trim intended to protect the bodywork rusts and causes the bodywork to rust, that have wire harnesses that fall apart because they bind when they're supposed to flex, etc., etc. I love 'em for sure but they're far from perfect. :stickoutt

And don't forget that the majority of the components and systems in the domestics are outsourced to third party vendors. Those bits and pieces were spec'd out by their engineers but were built under contract by someone else...

[Chinman]

Don't forget headlight switch fires, or fuel injector o-ring leak driven fires. Or the rest of the multitude of fire causes.


Yeah, my 88 EXP had the headlight switch start acting up. You'd hear this clicking sound come from the switch as the headlights flickered on/off. (outsourced to Lucas?) I pulled the switch to find a connector the size of a friggin' pack of cigarettes with 24 wires coming out of it. 24 FREAKIN WIRES! Come on, how many wires does it need to turn the headlights on? In the middle of that mess was a melted spot the size of a nickel and one wire terminal turned black. Replaced the switch, put on a new terminal and shoved it through the hole in the connector.

The only ford I give any cerdit to is the Fusion. Really nice car. Although I hear it's mostly a Volvo, which would be the reason it doesn't suck.

[ShapeShifter]

The BMW transmission problem goes back to the general.

At least Ford circeled the problem right on their emblem.

[BavarianFanatic]

The BMW transmission problem goes back to the general.

At least Ford circeled the problem right on their emblem.


Actually, they don't fail in "The General's" own applications. I think they fail in BMWs due to insufficient cooling. That's never really discussed but the only logical explanation.

[ShapeShifter]

In all fairness, even the ZF 4HP-22? (I forget it's been along time since my last E24)
blows hydraulic pumps when reved in nuetrual.

[Chinman]

Actually, they don't fail in "The General's" own applications. I think they fail in BMWs due to insufficient cooling. That's never really discussed but the only logical explanation.

Yeah, that puny side-tank cooler (that never lets the trans fluid get below 200 F) is SOOOO much better than the one in front of the radiator on the BMW. The 4L30E is grossly undersized for the weight of the car and the power these engines put out. Dodge found that out in '92 when they put the new Magnum V-8's in front of transmissions built for much lower output. Epic Fail ensued.

[e34armour]

Yeah, that puny side-tank cooler (that never lets the trans fluid get below 200 F) is SOOOO much better than the one in front of the radiator on the BMW. The 4L30E is grossly undersized for the weight of the car and the power these engines put out. Dodge found that out in '92 when they put the new Magnum V-8's in front of transmissions built for much lower output. Epic Fail ensued.

lol ChryslerCo transmissions

[BavarianFanatic]

Yeah, that puny side-tank cooler (that never lets the trans fluid get below 200 F) is SOOOO much better than the one in front of the radiator on the BMW. The 4L30E is grossly undersized for the weight of the car and the power these engines put out. Dodge found that out in '92 when they put the new Magnum V-8's in front of transmissions built for much lower output. Epic Fail ensued.

So how is the fact that the trans is undersized for the application the fault of the trans? Throughout the course of automotive history GM has been the benchmark by which all other automatics have been measured. Did you ever stop to think why BMW opted to buy them from GM vs. someone else? The 4L80E in my Suburban still shifts like butter and pulls like a mule after spending 193K miles behind a 500+lb.ft. torque producing diesel lump.

/threadjack

[Chinman]

It isn't the transmission fault. GM sold them a unit that didn't fit the bill for the application. GM was the benchmark for automatics When they made the Powerglide and Turbo 350 and 400. The latter being what the 4L80E in your 'Burban is based off. They made some real mistakes in the late 70's through the early 90's.
Turbo 200. Dad had one of these in his '79 Cutlass w/ 260 V8. Undersized for the car. Replaced w/ a Turbo 350.
200R4. Even worse. My last car 1984 Delta 88 307 V8 had one of these. Again, undersized for the cars weight and power. Died at 150K. Car replaced by my E34.
700R4. Put into large trucks (3/4, 1 ton, and Suburbans) behind a 454 or Diesel and expected to tow. Later replaced by the 4L80E. Essentially a Turbo 400 with overdrive and lockup. Excellent tranny only bested by the Allison.

Why did BMW use them? Probably price. GM makes more automatics than anyone, so they can do it cheaper. Why else would you use it instead of ZF, a brand they have been using for years.
And for the record, I'm not anti-GM. Over half the cars I've owned were GM. Like the 90 Seville I use as a beater. Got it for free. If you saw the condition, you'd understand.

[WolfStrong]

Ben speaks the truth guys; Fords of the 90s are HUGE piles...though I don't know how my mom's boyfriend got away almost trouble free on his mid 90s F250 with 200k+ miles. We have gone through a few Fords and have had NOTHING but problems with them, and you won't find another one in our family now. We actually had to schedule an extra day or two on our brand new Explorer when they first came out because we knew it would break down.

Honestly, I would get rid of the thing; those Rangers are KNOWN to randomly catch fire due to wire harness problems.

[hellohi]

those Rangers are KNOWN to randomly catch fire due to wire harness problems.

WTF!!!:eyecrazy
:flamethro:mechstuck

[Binjammin]

:lol THIS made me laugh! Because BMW suspensions are so bulletproof and last forever...uhh wait a minute...

A whole lot of Ford hatin' going on in here. In all seriousness, there is no question or shadow of a doubt that ALL of the American manufacturers built crap for many, many DECADES. No arguments there. BUT, I have to say that over the last few years they've all been making huge strides towards building not-crap again.

My eclectic taste and inability to stop buying new vehicles means I now have two Fords in the fleet. An '07 Mustang and an '07 Expedition EL. Both have been largely trouble free. The Expedition required a trans program software update (my request) because it was hunting a bit too much for my taste. It was a first year trans so that's to be expected. Turns out it was optimized for CAFE which was a bit too conservative for my liking. It now has 37k and hasn't had a single other issue. The Mustang is about to roll over 30k hard-driven miles and had a bad brake master reservoir level sensor. That's it. 67k miles in two years and technically only a single minor failure. Not too shabby. Granted my sample is very small but it's very different from past experiences with many different makes.

And be careful with any sort of hating of non-BMWs since we all live in a big old glass house with our beloved cars that require replacement of the entire cooling system as a maintenance item, have automatic transmissions that take a shit if you idle your engine for more than 30 seconds, that require bodywork because the trim intended to protect the bodywork rusts and causes the bodywork to rust, that have wire harnesses that fall apart because they bind when they're supposed to flex, etc., etc. I love 'em for sure but they're far from perfect. :stickoutt

And don't forget that the majority of the components and systems in the domestics are outsourced to third party vendors. Those bits and pieces were spec'd out by their engineers but were built under contract by someone else...

The problems BMWs have are largely due to owner negligence, even if you do make some valid points. The trouble is that I can think of 1 problem that causes fires on BMWs, and while it's not uncommon, it's certainly not common. Fords are KNOWN for fires, from multiple different causes.

The also rot out faster than anything Japanese in the 80s.


In all fairness, even the ZF 4HP-22? (I forget it's been along time since my last E24)
blows hydraulic pumps when reved in nuetrual.

It doesn't blow the pump, it's a stator shaft seal that causes drag on a set of clutches, wearing the clutches out almost instantly.

[ShapeShifter]

Yea, that's what I'm sayin. .
It's only been 10 years since I blew that trans.

[ross1]

Actually, they don't fail in "The General's" own applications. I think they fail in BMWs due to insufficient cooling. That's never really discussed but the only logical explanation.

The Bavarian wizards also told customers they are filled with "lifetime" fluid. We all know which lifetime the term refers to.

[BavarianFanatic]

The Bavarian wizards also told customers they are filled with "lifetime" fluid. We all know which lifetime the term refers to.

Technically it's a true statement. That fluid will certainly work as designed as long as that transmission continues to function. Unfortunately it's a circular reference which, in the end, leads to a shorter than expected lifetime of said transmission, or differential, or xxx. :eyecrazy


The problems BMWs have are largely due to owner negligence, even if you do make some valid points. The trouble is that I can think of 1 problem that causes fires on BMWs, and while it's not uncommon, it's certainly not common. Fords are KNOWN for fires, from multiple different causes.

The also rot out faster than anything Japanese in the 80s.



It doesn't blow the pump, it's a stator shaft seal that causes drag on a set of clutches, wearing the clutches out almost instantly.

I definitely agree Bin. There's been some real shit pumped out over the years. And fires are certainly a far more common outcome than they should be. I'm simply saying great strides have been made in the last several years. Mainly because they're finally leveraging the talent and equipment they have in other markets around the world. Same with GM. All of GM's nicest, highest quality products available currently were sourced from either Europe or Australia. And they are actually pretty nice. Go drive a G8 GXP. It'll make you think twice about getting into an E39 M5. I personally can't wait for Ford to start bringing in some of the goodies they produce down under. It'll never happen, but they have quite a stable full of high horsepower, rear drive oddities down there.

And as a somewhat comical aside, the E34 M5 I just picked up had a dash fire. :rolleyes

[Binjammin]

Technically it's a true statement. That fluid will certainly work as designed as long as that transmission continues to function. Unfortunately it's a circular reference which, in the end, leads to a shorter than expected lifetime of said transmission, or differential, or xxx. :eyecrazy



I definitely agree Bin. There's been some real shit pumped out over the years. And fires are certainly a far more common outcome than they should be. I'm simply saying great strides have been made in the last several years. Mainly because they're finally leveraging the talent and equipment they have in other markets around the world. Same with GM. All of GM's nicest, highest quality products available currently were sourced from either Europe or Australia. And they are actually pretty nice. Go drive a G8 GXP. It'll make you think twice about getting into an E39 M5. I personally can't wait for Ford to start bringing in some of the goodies they produce down under. It'll never happen, but they have quite a stable full of high horsepower, rear drive oddities down there.

And as a somewhat comical aside, the E34 M5 I just picked up had a dash fire. :rolleyes


Blower motor huh?

[mlambert831]

If I had a gun that would shoot through the internet, you would be shot, right now.

Ya live in the same town as me buddy. :) Honestly, there's a lot of idiots on these forums outside of the e34 section. A lot of good people, but a lot of idiots.


Be happy for him having a working truck. He could probably have saved a few bucks going elsewhere, but didn't. If he's ok with it, you should be too.

He didn't spend his own money :( He spent our mothers money, not to mention partially with out her permission, long story behind that one though.


Ben speaks the truth guys; Fords of the 90s are HUGE piles...though I don't know how my mom's boyfriend got away almost trouble free on his mid 90s F250 with 200k+ miles. We have gone through a few Fords and have had NOTHING but problems with them, and you won't find another one in our family now. We actually had to schedule an extra day or two on our brand new Explorer when they first came out because we knew it would break down.

Honestly, I would get rid of the thing; those Rangers are KNOWN to randomly catch fire due to wire harness problems.

Getting rid of these cars isn't my decision. I just do what I can to help keep them running for the family.

By these cars I mean, the 2002 Ford Taurus, the 1994 Ford Ranger, and the 2001 Dodge/Chrysler Caravan Sport.

Taurus sucks money out of my mother, but her choice. Neither of my Bimmers have been anywhere near as bad of a problem as these two fords. Power steering is out on the Ranger now, too. Taurus had a fuel pump replacement, head job, new ECU, all in about a month and a half. (Mind you, at 160k miles.)


Surprisingly enough, even with all the neglect, the caravan just keeps truckin! Mind you the tranny is shit.

[BavarianFanatic]

Ya live in the same town as me buddy. :) Honestly, there's a lot of idiots on these forums outside of the e34 section. A lot of good people, but a lot of idiots.



He didn't spend his own money :( He spent our mothers money, not to mention partially with out her permission, long story behind that one though.



Getting rid of these cars isn't my decision. I just do what I can to help keep them running for the family.

By these cars I mean, the 2002 Ford Taurus, the 1994 Ford Ranger, and the 2001 Dodge/Chrysler Caravan Sport.

Taurus sucks money out of my mother, but her choice. Neither of my Bimmers have been anywhere near as bad of a problem as these two fords. Power steering is out on the Ranger now, too. Taurus had a fuel pump replacement, head job, new ECU, all in about a month and a half. (Mind you, at 160k miles.)


Surprisingly enough, even with all the neglect, the caravan just keeps truckin! Mind you the tranny is shit.

That is a bit of a different story if your brother is spending your Mother's money. Not so cool if she didn't know it would be so much.

That work on the Taurus at 160k isn't that horrible. Back in the day it would have needed it at 60k. Also, don't forget you're at the mercy of the shop recommending the repairs. A lot of shady shops will come up with their own reasoning for problems that are far more extensive than the actual culprit and use the high mileage to justify it. My mother has a '00 Taurus with 130k on the clock and it runs like a champ.

Caravan tranny. Good luck with that!

[skylinergtr]

I have a 2002 Explorer EB V8 and so far (knock on wood) no problems at all. With almost 100k miles it has been a true champ. The car hauls with its V8 engine. Thank god for no transmission problems. The 4X4 works wonders, and honestly it is the most confortable car i've been in. I know for has its flaws but I like their trucks. Out of all these american companies I like Ford the best.

[BavarianFanatic]

I have a 2002 Explorer EB V8 and so far (knock on wood) no problems at all. With almost 100k miles it has been a true champ. The car hauls with its V8 engine. Thank god for no transmission problems. The 4X4 works wonders, and honestly it is the most confortable car i've been in. I know for has its flaws but I like their trucks. Out of all these american companies I like Ford the best.

Just keep your tires properly inflated. ;-)

I still can't believe Ford ended up holding the bag for that one.

[Binjammin]

Just keep your tires properly inflated. ;-)

I still can't believe Ford ended up holding the bag for that one.

Why not? There are plenty of other vehicles that ran those tires that didn't have massive rollover issues, it wasn't Firestone's fault that people can't drive their fords with the dirty side down.

[BavarianFanatic]

Why not? There are plenty of other vehicles that ran those tires that didn't have massive rollover issues, it wasn't Firestone's fault that people can't drive their fords with the dirty side down.

And how is it Ford's (or Firestone's for that matter) fault that the morons driving them were running them with 10lbs. of pressure? I'd blame the tires before I'd blame the vehicle they're on. Some have argued that Ford's recommended pressure was too low, but I don't think any of the failures were with tires at the recommended pressure...

No matter the make, an SUV will flop over in an instant if you overact to something. It's all Mr. Newton's fault really.

And are you sure there were really other vehicles with those specific tires? Usually the OEMs are application specific - at least the variants fitted at the factory. There might be others with the same moniker from the same manufacturer, but they're usually different.

[Binjammin]

And how is it Ford's (or Firestone's for that matter) fault that the morons driving them were running them with 10lbs. of pressure? I'd blame the tires before I'd blame the vehicle they're on. Some have argued that Ford's recommended pressure was too low, but I don't think any of the failures were with tires at the recommended pressure...

No matter the make, an SUV will flop over in an instant if you overact to something. It's all Mr. Newton's fault really.

And are you sure there were really other vehicles with those specific tires? Usually the OEMs are application specific - at least the variants fitted at the factory. There might be others with the same moniker from the same manufacturer, but they're usually different.



The statistics don't bear out your argument. The explorers were experiencing rollover rates like quadruple that of every other SUV made since the Sidekick. So you've got the same tires on every SUV, not just fords, and only fords are rolling over. Inflation issues are pretty unlikely, as people get flat tires all the time and they just drive to the side of the road and put the spare on.

[BavarianFanatic]

The statistics don't bear out your argument. The explorers were experiencing rollover rates like quadruple that of every other SUV made since the Sidekick. So you've got the same tires on every SUV, not just fords, and only fords are rolling over. Inflation issues are pretty unlikely, as people get flat tires all the time and they just drive to the side of the road and put the spare on.

The primary issue with the whole Firestone/Explorer debacle was delamination of the tread from the tire carcass caused by under inflation. The delamination was causing rapid deflation and folks were over-correcting and cartwheeling off the highway. The tires weren't the same on all SUVs. The Firestones on the Explorer were specific to the Explorer, as most cars on the road today have a tire that was specified for that specific application or the car was tuned to a specific tire.

Also remember that the Explorer was really the first mainstream SUV that folks were buying up in large numbers. It dominated the segment for many years so there were tons of them out there in the hands of folks who previously drove minivans and station wagons and had zero understanding of physics.

[Binjammin]

The primary issue with the whole Firestone/Explorer debacle was delamination of the tread from the tire carcass caused by under inflation. The delamination was causing rapid deflation and folks were over-correcting and cartwheeling off the highway. The tires weren't the same on all SUVs. The Firestones on the Explorer were specific to the Explorer, as most cars on the road today have a tire that was specified for that specific application or the car was tuned to a specific tire.

Also remember that the Explorer was really the first mainstream SUV that folks were buying up in large numbers. It dominated the segment for many years so there were tons of them out there in the hands of folks who previously drove minivans and station wagons and had zero understanding of physics.

Yes, the tire was OE on the explorer. Yes, it had tread seperation issues due to underinflation, but those tires were all available to the aftermarket as well, in the same sizing, and the rollover issues weren't present on non-ford suvs. That's the whole reason for the large debate in the first place. If it were "Firestone tires seperate and the tire goes flat, leading to SUV rollovers" it would be a dead issue. The fact that it's "Firestone tires seperate and the tire goes flat, leading to a massive amount of fingerpointing between firestone and ford" means there's a lot more in the way of funky vehicle handling dynamics at work. From what I recall it was the left rear which was most prevalent in a blowout. If it were just the tires, it should be statistically even left or right.

[BavarianFanatic]

Yes, the tire was OE on the explorer. Yes, it had tread seperation issues due to underinflation, but those tires were all available to the aftermarket as well, in the same sizing, and the rollover issues weren't present on non-ford suvs. That's the whole reason for the large debate in the first place. If it were "Firestone tires seperate and the tire goes flat, leading to SUV rollovers" it would be a dead issue. The fact that it's "Firestone tires seperate and the tire goes flat, leading to a massive amount of fingerpointing between firestone and ford" means there's a lot more in the way of funky vehicle handling dynamics at work. From what I recall it was the left rear which was most prevalent in a blowout. If it were just the tires, it should be statistically even left or right.

You're missing what I'm saying about the tires. The specific tires that were put on the trucks at the factory were not the same as the tires you would find in the aftermarket even if they were the same model and/or size. They were specifically built by Firestone to be put on Explorers. As I said, this is very common. The tires are engineered by the tire manufacturer based on specs and parameters that the suspension and handling engineers at the vehicle manufacturer are shooting for. Yes, you can walk into a tire dealer and buy a tire with the same model name and of the same size, but it's not necessarily the exact same tire. Tires a such a key component to vehicle handling and dynamics. The engineers have to know exactly what they're going to be working with to achieve the desired outcome.

It's akin to the fact that you can walk into Walmart and buy a Sony DVD player that looks exactly like the one in the Best Buy next door, but it's not. It's a unique model manufactured specifically for Walmart to hit an agreed upon price point. It's not common knowledge, but it's reality. There's a reason Walmart can sell stuff as cheaply as they do.

The finger pointing was basically Ford saying Firestone built a sub-par tire (they did) and Firestone saying Ford specified an inflation pressure that was too low for the load (also true in an effort to soften the ride). The single most significant issue with regard to rollovers is the center of gravity. Yes, you could jerk the wheel in the Explorer regardless of the tires that are mounted and it'll jump up in the air to the amazement of all around. The issue with crappy/underinflated tires was merely a catalyst to bring this little trait to light.

[Binjammin]

It doesn't matter whether or not it was the tires on the explorers were explorer specific or not, the recall went to MANY different tires, both aftermarket and OE, because they all had issues. However, only fords had rollover issues.