Reliability/maintenance between E39 M5, M Roadster, and E46 M3...

[lkwinnipesaukee]

Yep, I searched! :buttrock

So I'm officially in the market for a bimmer (AT LAST).

It seems I can afford any (one--haha) of the following:

-S52 Z3M Roadster with less than 40k miles, maybe an S54 if I get lucky

-E46 M3 with more than 50k miles, or

-E39 M5 with more than 60k miles.

I'm going to college next year (in Maryland), have a nice safe parking space, etc etc.

I am worried about maintenance. I plan on keeping the car at least all 4 years, and logging maybe 10k miles per year.

I was wondering what kind of maintenance I could expect to be performing on these cars at these miles. I'll say I can and enjoy doing 90% of the work myself. I love all these cars, but am not sure I can afford to maintain them the way the need to be, especially the M5 with the double VANOS "thing"...

Oh yah, and...0-60...

M5: 5.1 sec
M3: 4.6 sec
S52 Z3Mr: 5.3 sec? :D

Any input? Thanks for responses

[E36BMW3series]

Save it until you get out of college. I am going to college as well and it will just be a PITA. If you insist on a BMW get a nice little e36 (1996-1998) and drive it around.

I am not taking my car to college, taking a Bonneville with 130k miles on it.

[ohnoes]

0-60 is a rather stupid metric, but the M3 and M5 are about tied to 60--4.7-4.8 typically. M3 might be a hair faster, but after 80 the M5 will start to walk away pretty hard. V8 > I6. The time for the S52 E36/7 sounds about right.

Maintenance will probably be cheapest on the S52 MC, but subframe failures are more common than on the M3 and certainly the M5 (where subframe failures are basically unheard of).

Personally, I'd go with the E46 M3, just because it's an amazing all-rounder, doesn't cost as much to maintain as the E39 M5, looks incredible, is very fun to drive, and still can fairly comfortably hold four adults (five if you squeeze one in the middle, but I said comfortably).

However, I'd recommend holding off altogether till after college... your car will get trashed in college even if you have a dedicated parking space--hopefully just by vomit once or twice, but perhaps keyed or otherwise permanently harmed.

[obnoxious2]

You going to College Park? If that is so and even if you have a parking place...PG County is shady and I wouldn't really want to drive around a nice car in that area. Especially with the chance of it getting dinged up and stuff.

[gtxragtop]

If your a decent looking male with a good rapport with the ladies I doubt you need a bimmer to secure services from said ladies. Save your money for fun stuff. You get to work full time for most of your life all too soon.

[jekaio]

I am worried about maintenance. I plan on keeping the car at least all 4 years, and logging maybe 10k miles per year.

I was wondering what kind of maintenance I could expect to be performing on these cars at these miles. I'll say I can and enjoy doing 90% of the work myself. I love all these cars, but am not sure I can afford to maintain them the way the need to be,


you answered your own question.

e39 m5 is going to be out of warranty.

m roadster def out of warranty.

e46 m3 could still be under warranty.


IMO buy an e36 m3 and rock that till you get out of school.

[BKarktic328i]

IMO buy an e36 m3 and rock that till you get out of school.

+1000

I could not imagine trying to maintain an e46M3 while in college... and NO WAY on the e39M5 (unless little things like unexpected 2-3k repair bills aren't an issue). Your scenario may be different than mine was (read: I was a broke college kid).

The S52 is far easier to maintain, and loads of fun.

[IslandS62]

I have had basically all 3. E39 M5, and S52 MCoupe and an S54 MCoupe. The S52 MRoadster is going to be far and away the cheapest of the 3 to maintain and to repair. In fact the MZ3 is very easy to do nearly everything yourself if you are so inclined. The S54 requires TWS oil, the parts are more i.e. fuel pump, water pump, etc, and requires valve adjustment. The M5 is in an entirely different league, probably double the S54 as far as running costs, and it has the POTENTIAL for massive bills.

[Serious]

e36 m3 is the perfect car for you.
Cheaper from the get go, most of the preventative maintenance is pretty cheap (cooling system etc.). s52's are very reliable if maintained correctly, and they are also fairly easy to work on (and dont require valve adjustments).

mz3's have alot of problems that have to be dealt with preventatively, cooling system, subframe, oil pump nut are the big ones. Going to be more expensive to start out, pretty small car for college (where are your friends/stuff going to be hauled?)

e46 m3's are pretty good reliability wise but if they bite they can bite hard... they also require alot of maintenance $$$ in the form of expensive oil changes, valve adjustments, and tires.

stay far away from e39 m5.

[lkwinnipesaukee]

Going to Loyola. Pretty psyched. I have friends with nicer than average cars there and have never had problems damage-wise.

I'm not too crazy about the e36 M3... Trying to get the most bang for my buck here, I feel like with the "only" 240hp/236ft-lb S52 engine, I'd want it in a lighter more nimble car. And the only potential additional problem with the Z3 vs the E36 is the subframe. I'll just make sure I check it before buying.

Exactly the opposite of what "gtxragtop" said, I want a bimmer for my own personal enjoyment, not to impress women or cart drunk "friends" around, so I think two seats might be better in that regard...and I really don't want to wait until after college to get a nice car. I want one now! :P

Anyway yeah I think the M5 is out. But again, I plan on doing most, if not all of the work on the car, minus anything involving like, pulling the engine, myself (bringing my tool set, haha). So what kind of work could I be looking at on a healthy E39 M5? An E46 M3?

Thanks again

[IslandS62]

The S52 MZ3 is actually a very fun and entertaining car to drive. Lots of tourque and character. Bang for the buck it's a hands down winner. The subframe is an issue but get it checked before you buy and once in a while after and it will be fine.

S54 and S62 require more tools and more know how and a lot more cash flow.

[vw203]

e46 m3 gets my vote

[Serious]

The only reason to get a z3 M coupe is because you have to have the looks.

Logically its a completely worse car then the e36 m3.

Alot more expensive, worse rear suspension, bigger subframe issues, same cooling system/oil pump nut issues, 2 seats, and little utility.

BTW you could supercharge an e36 m3 for the around the same price its going to cost you to get get into a similar condition/mileage M coupe.

[lkwinnipesaukee]

I'm looking for the roadster. I drive a huuuuge truck now and am so sick of it I want a fast, nimble go cart. But the S54 M3 or S62 really appeal to me too, especially since I'll be doing a lot of highway miles.

Don't both the Z3M and E36 M3 have the same S52 engine? I haven't compared engine bays etc, but if I can FI an M3, can't I do the same to a Z3M Roadster? And the Z3M's handling characteristics are far superior to the E36, right?

I understand brake rotors for the E39 are about $300 a piece, and I need an M-certified tech to play with VANOS once it starts making noise. I understand I wouldn't be able to touch the VANOS myself because of the extremely high oil pressure in its parts. It practically drinks oil and the clutch can go bad which isn't cheap. Anything else? It seems that the big problems can be prevented by a good PPI and not abusing the car...

Still not sure. I mean I think I'll end up getting the roadster, but also wouldn't mind more of a bigger, torquier car more suited for the highway...

[IslandS62]

The only reason to get a z3 M coupe is because you have to have the looks.

Logically its a completely worse car then the e36 m3.

Alot more expensive, worse rear suspension, bigger subframe issues, same cooling system/oil pump nut issues, 2 seats, and little utility.

BTW you could supercharge an e36 m3 for the around the same price its going to cost you to get get into a similar condition/mileage M coupe.

blasphemy :D

Actually Serious has some valid points, but I just love the MZ3.


I'm looking for the roadster. I drive a huuuuge truck now and am so sick of it I want a fast, nimble go cart. But the S54 M3 or S62 really appeal to me too, especially since I'll be doing a lot of highway miles.

Don't both the Z3M and E36 M3 have the same S52 engine? I haven't compared engine bays etc, but if I can FI an M3, can't I do the same to a Z3M Roadster? And the Z3M's handling characteristics are far superior to the E36, right?

I understand brake rotors for the E39 are about $300 a piece, and I need an M-certified tech to play with VANOS once it starts making noise. I understand I wouldn't be able to touch the VANOS myself because of the extremely high oil pressure in its parts. It practically drinks oil and the clutch can go bad which isn't cheap. Anything else? It seems that the big problems can be prevented by a good PPI and not abusing the car...

Still not sure. I mean I think I'll end up getting the roadster, but also wouldn't mind more of a bigger, torquier car more suited for the highway...

Stock for stock, the M3 on a track will probably best an MZ3. Despite being a bit heavier, the M3 is a better handler. That said, swapping out the suspension on an MZ3 pays big dividends and it handling is raw, livelier and more entertaining than the M3s. imo. On the street there is little difference, its your preference.

M5 suffer from basic 5 series maladies. Wiper wash motors, electronic gremlins, bad window regulators, bad pixels, failing rearview mirrors. And big things, like VANOS, carbon build up...imo clutch life is not too bad. Brake rotors are not that $$$ and are not done that often. I guess the cost of rotors and such would not be the reason I would not buy an M5 is what I'm saying.

[mattjw916]

none of those cars are reasonable for someone who isn't even in college yet...

get a 3-series with a warranty and focus on school

[Serious]

I'm looking for the roadster. I drive a huuuuge truck now and am so sick of it I want a fast, nimble go cart. But the S54 M3 or S62 really appeal to me too, especially since I'll be doing a lot of highway miles.

Don't both the Z3M and E36 M3 have the same S52 engine? I haven't compared engine bays etc, but if I can FI an M3, can't I do the same to a Z3M Roadster? And the Z3M's handling characteristics are far superior to the E36, right?

I understand brake rotors for the E39 are about $300 a piece, and I need an M-certified tech to play with VANOS once it starts making noise. I understand I wouldn't be able to touch the VANOS myself because of the extremely high oil pressure in its parts. It practically drinks oil and the clutch can go bad which isn't cheap. Anything else? It seems that the big problems can be prevented by a good PPI and not abusing the car...

Still not sure. I mean I think I'll end up getting the roadster, but also wouldn't mind more of a bigger, torquier car more suited for the highway...

Roadsters have a tendency to leak water from the convertible tops.

Rear suspension is inferior to multi link (e36,e46) setup... Mz3's have a reputation for being twitchy when driven fast (ie on a track)... whereas e36 m3's are much more docile.

IMO mz3's should only really be bought by people that won't have anything but an mz3... the car really is unique but with its issues you need to have some dedication to the car. Benefit is that there is really nothing else on the road that has the character of an mz3 coupe.