TCarlisle
05-28-2009, 10:44 AM
Ok, so I am a pretty experienced dude. All the mods in my list were done with my own hands. Going back 20 years, I have rebuilt engines, transmissions, and done all the standard maintenance tasks for at least 20 years. Also, for 20 years I have been mod'ing cars with audio systems, and of course doing that also makes a person an electrical system expert.
Well, all that experience is chucked out the window as I am a certified dumb ass after what I did the past week.
Last friday, I drove home from work and then went to a restaurant to get a burger. Actually, I drove through the car wash first. When I got to the restaurant, I saw that the car wash didn't wipe off or rinse off the stuff they use to clean the wheels, and it left a haze on the wheels and looked like it was eating the paint! So I got back in the car to go to the car wash and get that taken care of. The car wouldn't start. Starter turned real slow and there was no way the starter was going to start the car.
So I looked at the battery and found that the cable was loose on the positive terminal. I was around the corner from my house, so I removed the battery, took it home and charged it for about two hours at 10A and took it back and re-installed and it started the car.
Ok, so at this point, I am thinking -- battery terminal came loose, affecting the ability of the alt to charge the battery, no big deal.
I put a mulimeter on the battery as the car is running and see the voltage in the low 12's. It seems the alt isn't doing a very good job charging.
Now I am thinking, well maybe the alt blew because of the battery terminal coming loose and causing spikes? Or the battery really isn't fully charged, but just quick charged. So I decide to put the battery on the charger overnight.
The next morning, I re-test and of course with a fully charged battery, as the car is running I am seeing voltage in the 13's. But as I turn on accessories, I see the voltage go down, and down, and down. Crap. It is starting to look like an alternator problem.
The alternator is just a year old. Crud. I removed the alternator to look at the voltage regulator, brushes, and visually inspect and "sniff test" the diodes. Nothing appears to be wrong. But I can't bench test the alt and the shop that could do that is closed and I wouldn't have transportation anyways. Note to self -- when I get this working, change the belt as it is really cracked and worn.
I put her back together and retest, and of course the voltage just keeps dropping. I run the car with the AC and headlights, etc for a long time and it pulls the voltage down and kills the battery and then the car doesn't start. Charged the battery again. As I was doing this test, I did rev the engine to about 2500rpm, and it was raining with high humidity, and I heard some belt squeal. I visually inspected and couldn't see the belt slipping and it was definately turning the alternor. Note to self again -- deal with that belt once this is sorted out.
So I order a new remanufactured alt and paid for next day shipping to the tune of about $350. I had errands to run that day so I had to drive the car. I was able to drive without AC or headlights and before I shut off the car I tested voltage and it was 13.3. So I knew I could shut off teh car and expect it to start again.
As I waited for the new alt to come in, I noticed I could drive without a load on the electrical system, and all was fine. But as soon as any loads were put on the system, it crapped out.
So the new alt came in, and I swapped it, and upon testing I find the same damn thing.
Now I am thinking maybe the battery was toasted as a reuslt of all of this? So I go buy a battery. I had an Optima yellow top, but I bought a parts store brand as this was getting expensive.
So now it is a weekday, so I put the old alternator in the trunk and drive to the alternator shop that can bench test the alternator and do an "in car" alt check. Well, the "in car" alt check was exactly what I had been doing, and the assessment of the shop was that it appeared the alt was not putting out, or something in the car was drawing. They bench tested the alt I had removed, and it tested fine. The guy said the new alt was probably fine too, and that the problem was elsewhere in the car.
So now I am stumped. In 20 years of experience, and a lot of experience with electrical systems, and actually kind of scared. What the hell could be loading down the system this much? I bypassed my audio system completely to rule that out -- it wasn't just turned off but was physically disconnected to rule it out. It turns hot and now I am no longer seeing voltaghe in the 13's, even with all accesories off. Is this car eating alternators? I am very scared now, because swapping alternators tryting to find out why the car is eating them would cost thousands.
I get out the Bentley and start pulling fuses of all the accesories that likely would draw a load. Nothing helps. All seems fine.
The next morning (today) I get up and test again, and the alt is putting out 13.3V with no accesories on. That is a good thing, as I didn't see 13's since it got hot yesterday.....
Also, I had noticed for the past month or so an issue with the AC. The blower goes down to low intermittently. I just figured that is a minor issue. Now I am thinking maybe the AC issue is loading the system?
I also noticed that when I shut down the car and put a battery charger on it, the battery charger indicates the battery is quite dead. But, if I disconnhect the car from the battery, the battery charger doesn't indicate dead battery. More evidence that something is seriously wrong with the car electronics.
Well, I gave up. I just was out of ideas. As I test and test, that belt is squeaking, so I figure I will just take a break form it, think about it for a few hours, and take some time to deal with that belt.
Installed belt, tested electrical system, checks fine. 14.2V at ilde and stays in the 13's with the electrical system loaded with accessories.
So charging system troubleshooting 101 is to check the belt. I knew that. Hell, I have done that to fix problems in the past on older cars. This problem was fixed in 20 minutes and $20 by changing the belt. But I spent $450 on an alternator and battery which wasn't needed.
So here is what I learned, besides change the damn belt.
1) There are things that continue to run after the car is shut off. We all hear that little blower motor sound. This creates a draw on the battery and is probably why my battery charger indicated a dead battery - because the charger was supplying power not just to charge the battery but to also supply this draw -- which is normal.
2) Having done the fan delete mod, my AUX fan comes on more frequently than a stock car. This is normal, and is why I was not seeing good voltage even when accessories were turned off once the ambient temperatiure raised and after I had been running the engine to test -- my aux fan was on and was creating the load that pushed my "unhealthy" charging system over the edge.
Well, all that experience is chucked out the window as I am a certified dumb ass after what I did the past week.
Last friday, I drove home from work and then went to a restaurant to get a burger. Actually, I drove through the car wash first. When I got to the restaurant, I saw that the car wash didn't wipe off or rinse off the stuff they use to clean the wheels, and it left a haze on the wheels and looked like it was eating the paint! So I got back in the car to go to the car wash and get that taken care of. The car wouldn't start. Starter turned real slow and there was no way the starter was going to start the car.
So I looked at the battery and found that the cable was loose on the positive terminal. I was around the corner from my house, so I removed the battery, took it home and charged it for about two hours at 10A and took it back and re-installed and it started the car.
Ok, so at this point, I am thinking -- battery terminal came loose, affecting the ability of the alt to charge the battery, no big deal.
I put a mulimeter on the battery as the car is running and see the voltage in the low 12's. It seems the alt isn't doing a very good job charging.
Now I am thinking, well maybe the alt blew because of the battery terminal coming loose and causing spikes? Or the battery really isn't fully charged, but just quick charged. So I decide to put the battery on the charger overnight.
The next morning, I re-test and of course with a fully charged battery, as the car is running I am seeing voltage in the 13's. But as I turn on accessories, I see the voltage go down, and down, and down. Crap. It is starting to look like an alternator problem.
The alternator is just a year old. Crud. I removed the alternator to look at the voltage regulator, brushes, and visually inspect and "sniff test" the diodes. Nothing appears to be wrong. But I can't bench test the alt and the shop that could do that is closed and I wouldn't have transportation anyways. Note to self -- when I get this working, change the belt as it is really cracked and worn.
I put her back together and retest, and of course the voltage just keeps dropping. I run the car with the AC and headlights, etc for a long time and it pulls the voltage down and kills the battery and then the car doesn't start. Charged the battery again. As I was doing this test, I did rev the engine to about 2500rpm, and it was raining with high humidity, and I heard some belt squeal. I visually inspected and couldn't see the belt slipping and it was definately turning the alternor. Note to self again -- deal with that belt once this is sorted out.
So I order a new remanufactured alt and paid for next day shipping to the tune of about $350. I had errands to run that day so I had to drive the car. I was able to drive without AC or headlights and before I shut off the car I tested voltage and it was 13.3. So I knew I could shut off teh car and expect it to start again.
As I waited for the new alt to come in, I noticed I could drive without a load on the electrical system, and all was fine. But as soon as any loads were put on the system, it crapped out.
So the new alt came in, and I swapped it, and upon testing I find the same damn thing.
Now I am thinking maybe the battery was toasted as a reuslt of all of this? So I go buy a battery. I had an Optima yellow top, but I bought a parts store brand as this was getting expensive.
So now it is a weekday, so I put the old alternator in the trunk and drive to the alternator shop that can bench test the alternator and do an "in car" alt check. Well, the "in car" alt check was exactly what I had been doing, and the assessment of the shop was that it appeared the alt was not putting out, or something in the car was drawing. They bench tested the alt I had removed, and it tested fine. The guy said the new alt was probably fine too, and that the problem was elsewhere in the car.
So now I am stumped. In 20 years of experience, and a lot of experience with electrical systems, and actually kind of scared. What the hell could be loading down the system this much? I bypassed my audio system completely to rule that out -- it wasn't just turned off but was physically disconnected to rule it out. It turns hot and now I am no longer seeing voltaghe in the 13's, even with all accesories off. Is this car eating alternators? I am very scared now, because swapping alternators tryting to find out why the car is eating them would cost thousands.
I get out the Bentley and start pulling fuses of all the accesories that likely would draw a load. Nothing helps. All seems fine.
The next morning (today) I get up and test again, and the alt is putting out 13.3V with no accesories on. That is a good thing, as I didn't see 13's since it got hot yesterday.....
Also, I had noticed for the past month or so an issue with the AC. The blower goes down to low intermittently. I just figured that is a minor issue. Now I am thinking maybe the AC issue is loading the system?
I also noticed that when I shut down the car and put a battery charger on it, the battery charger indicates the battery is quite dead. But, if I disconnhect the car from the battery, the battery charger doesn't indicate dead battery. More evidence that something is seriously wrong with the car electronics.
Well, I gave up. I just was out of ideas. As I test and test, that belt is squeaking, so I figure I will just take a break form it, think about it for a few hours, and take some time to deal with that belt.
Installed belt, tested electrical system, checks fine. 14.2V at ilde and stays in the 13's with the electrical system loaded with accessories.
So charging system troubleshooting 101 is to check the belt. I knew that. Hell, I have done that to fix problems in the past on older cars. This problem was fixed in 20 minutes and $20 by changing the belt. But I spent $450 on an alternator and battery which wasn't needed.
So here is what I learned, besides change the damn belt.
1) There are things that continue to run after the car is shut off. We all hear that little blower motor sound. This creates a draw on the battery and is probably why my battery charger indicated a dead battery - because the charger was supplying power not just to charge the battery but to also supply this draw -- which is normal.
2) Having done the fan delete mod, my AUX fan comes on more frequently than a stock car. This is normal, and is why I was not seeing good voltage even when accessories were turned off once the ambient temperatiure raised and after I had been running the engine to test -- my aux fan was on and was creating the load that pushed my "unhealthy" charging system over the edge.