Got A Ticket - Need Some Input

[BealeAss]

So, I got pulled over yesterday and the cop seemed to imply this was just a b.s. fine and won't affect my insurance, but someone referenced in the insurance industry is telling me different. Looking to see if anyone has some more input here before I send this ticket in:

The ticket is for "obedience to posted signs" $50 fine, but below says 70 in a 65 with the boxes checked for posted/clocked/estimated for my speed. Clocked is a little strange since radar definitely did not go off.

So what do I do? Mail it in and pay the fine or fight it??

[iamhydrogen]

Obedience to posted signs? Is that basically a reworded speeding infraction? What were the circumstances of the incident?

[///M3Augy]

Fight it, its only 5 over. You will win that when you talk to the magistrate.

[savage217]

Fight it no matter what.

[BealeAss]

Obedience to posted signs? Is that basically a reworded speeding infraction? What were the circumstances of the incident?

I kinda think that's the situation. Someone was telling me any speeding ticket under $100 doesn't do squat to insurance, but I'm hearing the opposite elsewhere.

Circumstances were I was in the right hand lane cruising along, guy comes out of nowhere following a speeding SUV, I get pulled over, travel 1/2 mile down the road on the shoulder to figure out wtf just happened. Get ticket, claims I got a big break on my ticket (never got me on radar), asks about the Lotus then sends me on my way. Kinda weird. I'm trying to figure out if its just some stupid fine like the one I got from a trooper last year for $40 and ignoring lane change signs.

So from a sales perspective I think he just re-wrote speeding, but it's only 5 over lol.


Fight it, its only 5 over. You will win that when you talk to the magistrate.

That's kinda what I'm thinking at this point. My only hesitation was the guy was so cool about the scenario and said he knocked it down..just pay the fine...etc etc.

Do troopers still show up to the hearings?

[///M3Augy]

Chances are it won't even go to that second court thing. You will meet with the magistrate and then and there he will throw it out.

That's what happened when I fought my ticket; never went into a court room, just a room with the magistrate and a different policeman.

[BealeAss]

Chances are it won't even go to that second court thing. You will meet with the magistrate and then and there he will throw it out.

That's what happened when I fought my ticket; never went into a court room, just a room with the magistrate and a different policeman.

That's kind of what I figured, just wasn't sure how it worked with a trooper pulling you over in Mass.

I'm looking it all up, but I guess I have to call and ask my insurance company the deal...although the last thing I want is to alert them.

[Itsablurr]

How fast were you actually going at the time?

a good link i've posted before:

http://www.motorists.org/ma/home.html

[///M3Augy]

WTF I didn't know this...
Even if charges of your civil traffic infraction are legally dismissed by a Court Magistrate or a Judge, the records of the charges stay in your driving history forever. And when you pay for a copy of your own records, those 'not responsible' dismissals will be hidden. But when a cop calls up a driver's records - for instance at a traffic stop - all the dispositions will be listed, even the legally found 'not responsibles.' If you ever beat a speeding ticket, the next time cops will make sure you won't get out of it that easy. However if you ever happen to beat a murder rap, those records will be expunged and when you get stopped the cops won't know about it. How about 'em, apples?

How credible is this information?

[BealeAss]

How fast were you actually going at the time?

a good link i've posted before:

http://www.motorists.org/ma/home.html

Honestly I don't really know, probably close to my ticket speed. I just called the state troopers and I guess it's just a re-worded speeding ticket so it will count against my insurance. Wicked lame. I guess I'm sending it in not guilty and heading to a magistrate meeting. It's worth taking a shot to have it dropped.

[Itsablurr]

welcome to sports car ownership :)

oh.... and I'd post in OT asking how to best fight. ;)

[iamhydrogen]

welcome to sports car ownership :)

oh.... and I'd post in OT asking how to best fight. ;)

:rofl

[BealeAss]

welcome to sports car ownership :)

oh.... and I'd post in OT asking how to best fight. ;)

Lol I might as well ask to be emo.

[JaredM3]

Cops srsly gargle balls

[tb0ne]

Chances are it won't even go to that second court thing. You will meet with the magistrate and then and there he will throw it out.

That's what happened when I fought my ticket; never went into a court room, just a room with the magistrate and a different policeman.

I think you got lucky dude - I've never ever heard of a magistrate throwing a ticket out. Every time I've fought a ticket they cut the fine in half and that's about it. I don't bother even going to the magistrate anymore, unless it's a gigantic ticket it's not worth it.


welcome to sports car ownership :)

oh.... and I'd post in OT asking how to best fight. ;)

Absolutely - lots of great advice to be had there!

[325ciDriver]

I've had plenty of tickets thrown out by fighting them. If it's only a $50 fine -and it won't cause your insurance to go up- I would just pay it. It's probably better than waking up early and spending a few hours to go to fight it, taking the gamble of just having to pay for it anyway.

[bmwdrifta]

Not to take overt your thread, but i have a similar question and i got a ticket two nights ago.

I went by a cop going pretty fast on the highway, was going the same direction as me, but it was at ni9ght so i couldn't tell it was a cop until i had went by. So he obviously didn't have his radar on because mine never went off.

Also im 18 so i already have to go to court with a parent, most people say i just get community service, and that doesn't go against my insurance. But supposedly he put it down hat i was doing 75 in a 55 when he said and checked off on the ticket that he clocked me doing 91. I have a very goo radar and it never went off once.

but should i try and just fight it, seeming im already going there? and does the cop usually show up? this is my first speeding ticket. but i wouldnt believe, each indiviual cop wouldnt go to evey speeding ticket he gave out.

[ESMcBlurM3]

do NOT call your insurance company to ask them about the ticket and/or repercussions.

[edirtyfour]

WTF I didn't know this...

How credible is this information?

I would say pretty legit. When I got my license back I looked over the shoulder of the RMV employee when he pulled up my record and saw something listed that had been dropped by the magistrate.

[BealeAss]

do NOT call your insurance company to ask them about the ticket and/or repercussions.

This is f'ing stupid. Might as well sign it not guilty and just be done with it for awhile.

[edirtyfour]

Interesting wording on the ticket... what law did he cite you under? Chapter 90 § 17 or 18?

[Simmadown115]

Mass cops have there own forums online somewhere. There's a section called " Ask a state trooper" Simple google search should find it

[BealeAss]

Interesting wording on the ticket... what law did he cite you under? Chapter 90 § 17 or 18?

Looks like it says 73ocmR7o84a


Mass cops have there own forums online somewhere. There's a section called " Ask a state trooper" Simple google search should find it

Is this the one?

http://www.masscops.com/forums/

[///Mitch3]

Take ticket out of glove box
Place directly in toilet
Flush
???
Profit

[///M3Augy]

:laugh

[edirtyfour]

Huh... it's 730 CMR 7.08(1)(a)

Signs. The Authority erects signs on ways to implement the provisions of 730 CMR
7.00, for purposes of trial use, or in the event of an emergency. A person may not
disobey a sign unless a toll collector or Massachusetts State Police officer directs
otherwise. A person may not purposefully strike, move, deface, injure, obstruct, or
interfere with a sign. A person may not, in any manner or by any means, erect or
otherwise deploy any sign, signal, marking, or any other device that would be a sign if
the Authority deployed it, except with the approval, and at the direction, of the
Authority.

That's really interesting. Let me try to get some more info from a connection of mine.

[BealeAss]

Huh... it's 730 CMR 7.08(1)(a)

Signs. The Authority erects signs on ways to implement the provisions of 730 CMR
7.00, for purposes of trial use, or in the event of an emergency. A person may not
disobey a sign unless a toll collector or Massachusetts State Police officer directs
otherwise. A person may not purposefully strike, move, deface, injure, obstruct, or
interfere with a sign. A person may not, in any manner or by any means, erect or
otherwise deploy any sign, signal, marking, or any other device that would be a sign if
the Authority deployed it, except with the approval, and at the direction, of the
Authority.

That's really interesting. Let me try to get some more info from a connection of mine.

Lol so wtf does that mean? :confused

[Itsablurr]

Lol so wtf does that mean? :confused

it means dat be what you broke, skippy.

y'see dem tikkits sez what you be breakin. Dey tells you da numba of what it be. Now, we looks up dem numba and sees dem words what dem numbas mean. Dat be where you done wrong me brothar.

[iamhydrogen]

it means dat be what you broke, skippy.

y'see dem tikkits sez what you be breakin. Dey tells you da numba of what it be. Now, we looks up dem numba and sees dem words what dem numbas mean. Dat be where you done wrong me brothar.

so, if i understand correctly, a thing was broken by the actions of another thing which made a third thing write the second thing a thing telling said thing the thing that they did to break the first thing?

[edirtyfour]

To my understanding speeding is usually cited under MGL Chapter 90 § 17 or 18. The MGL is Massachusetts General Law. Instead of writing you up for this, he wrote you a citation for violating a regulation from the Code of Massachusetts Regulations, specifically 730 CMR 7.08(1)(a). Title 730 deals with the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority.

http://www.masspike.com/pdf/cmr/708.pdf

I'm waiting for confirmation from a contact that I have, but it sounds like he wrote you up for violating the instruction of a sign on the Massachusetts Turnpike which happened to be a speed limit sign. This was instead of citing you for speeding under Massachusetts General Law. Hence no larger fine, head surcharge, etc. It may also not be a moving violation which would show up on your insurance. The state police are under "orders" to write around $1.5 million more in speeding tickets and this sounds like a decent strategy. A $50 fine that you probably won't fight, especially if it won't show up on your insurance.

Ain't it a grand state that we live in?

[snek]

First of all, thanks for visiting my NMA MA website. (http://www.motorists.org/ma)

There is a lot of misinformation flying around here. In MA, every conviction goes on your insurance. You cannot skip the magistrate hearing; no show = automatic conviction. One Junior Operator speeding ticket is automatic 3 month suspension, $500 reinstatement fee and mandatory attendance of two different classes. OP got charged with (730 CMR 7.08(6)(c)) (http://www.motorists.org/ma/730CMR.html#speed) speeding on MassPike roads, tunnels or bridges.

Don't ask the cops or your insurance company, they have a vested interest in your conviction. (Would a cop honestly tell you how to beat a ticket?)

Read the website, starting here: http://www.motorists.org/ma/tic.html

And yes, even the tickets that you beat stay on your record. Write to the Governor, write to the Registrar, but better yet, join the NMA (http://www.motorists.org/). The stronger the organization, the better change of making an impact.

And I'll be able to guide you through the process personally. (No, I don't get paid for it...)

[edirtyfour]

You don't have to worry about the OP being a junior operator. I think greenleaf is the only junior operator on the NE boards. He's still working on learning stick someday.

BealeAss got written up for "obedience to posted signs" with something that looks like "73ocmR7o84a" on the ticket. Not sure how you're getting (6)(c) from that, especially if you read (1)(a):

...A person may not disobey a sign...

BealeAss - can you decipher the officers scribbling any better?

Also note that a driving offense is only surchargeable if it is listed in Appendix A of the Safe Driver Insurance Plan Regulation (211 CMR 134)... which this happens to be if it's 7.08(1)(a) :stickoutt

[///M3Augy]

I think greenleaf is the only junior operator on the NE boards.

:rofl2

[snek]

BealeAss got written up for "obedience to posted signs" with something that looks like "73ocmR7o84a" on the ticket. Not sure how you're getting (6)(c) from that, especially if you read (1)(a):

...A person may not disobey a sign...

BealeAss - can you decipher the officers scribbling any better?

Also note that a driving offense is only surchargeable if it is listed in Appendix A of the Safe Driver Insurance Plan Regulation (211 CMR 134)... which this happens to be if it's 7.08(1)(a) :stickoutt

I was just reacting to speeding; that would be the charge on the Pike. And you are right about a surchargeable offense, speeding always counts. If his charge is indeed 730CMR7084a as he thinks, that has to do with parking violations. It would be sweet, but his ticket wouldn't be marked "clocked" and "estimated."

[55fanatic]

Bealeass.. Call George, fight ticket... done deal...

I would bet there is NO ONE on this board with more speeding tickets then I... I would bet a night of beers on it. George is a life saver!!!

[BealeAss]

I was just reacting to speeding; that would be the charge on the Pike. And you are right about a surchargeable offense, speeding always counts. If his charge is indeed 730CMR7084a as he thinks, that has to do with parking violations. It would be sweet, but his ticket wouldn't be marked "clocked" and "estimated."

Edirty and I did some more research yesterday, the ticket is definitely for what I posted an o84a...which in the Mass law books doesn't exactly exist when used in conjunction with speeding.

What's making the scenario even dumber is that the boxes are checked for clocked/estimated/posted and the 90/17 and 90/18 check box area just has a single line through both words/boxes so who even knows...strangest ticket I've ever seen.


Bealeass.. Call George, fight ticket... done deal...

I would bet there is NO ONE on this board with more speeding tickets then I... I would bet a night of beers on it. George is a life saver!!!

George?

[///M3Augy]

Supercharged 330 George

[Itsablurr]

What's making the scenario even dumber is that the boxes are checked for clocked/estimated/posted

means he paced and also estimated? that'd be my guess.


and the 90/17 and 90/18 check box area just has a single line through both words/boxes so who even knows...strangest ticket I've ever seen.

Not strange, makes pretty decent sense.

90/17 and 90/18 don't apply to your ticket... thats why they were crossed out.


90/17 - Speed Greater Than Resonable and Proper- Used for clocking and establishes required distances -ie, you, Used for unposted zones, Construction zones, etc. 90/17 can also be applied if youre going the speed limit in incliment weather where you shouldve been driving slower.
*Some courts seem differ as to interpretation. Some say under this that even if you were over the limit but your speed was still "Resonable and Proper" you have a defense under 90/17, while in contrast, others feel (as the statute states) violation of posted speed is prima facie that you were in violation.


90/18 - Absolute limit - You go ANY faster than the sign, you're speeding. Clear and cut.


George?

beanfree

[BealeAss]

means he paced and also estimated? that'd be my guess.

Not strange, makes pretty decent sense.

90/17 and 90/18 don't apply to your ticket... thats why they were crossed out.


Clocked is a bs maneuver at that point b/c he was wayyyy back and by the time he was anywhere near I was definitely not speeding.

Actually I think for speeding tickets that does apply, Nick can correct me if I'm wrong here but one applies to state wide and the other certain sections. So theoretically for it to be a speeding ticket I think one of those needs to be checked.

[Itsablurr]

Clocked is a bs maneuver at that point b/c he was wayyyy back and by the time he was anywhere near I was definitely not speeding.


That may be true... but it doesn't mean that he can't say he did. ;)


Actually I think for speeding tickets that does apply, ....So theoretically for it to be a speeding ticket I think one of those needs to be checked.

Technically, your ticket is a general sign ticket... based off of how you said the officer presented it to you, "Obedience to posted signs". Anything speed related on there would be for reference as to what the root cause for the citation was (say if you were to appeal it), not the classification of ticket. Its a slap on the wrist.

So yes, crossing out of the 90/XX boxes would be appropriate and in line with that.


Nick can correct me if I'm wrong here but one applies to state wide and the other certain sections.

Best get on google then to verify... my quick search turned up what I posted off of the state police boards. Get down with some homework. ;)

[BealeAss]

That may be true... but it doesn't mean that he can't say he did. ;)



Technically, your ticket is a general sign ticket... based off of how you said the officer presented it to you, "Obedience to posted signs". Anything speed related on there would be for reference as to what the root cause for the citation was (say if you were to appeal it), not the classification of ticket. Its a slap on the wrist.

So yes, crossing out of the 90/XX boxes would be appropriate and in line with that.



Best get on google then to verify... my quick search turned up what I posted off of the state police boards.

We've got the question in to a local trooper who might help out. I need to call the station again for a bit more verification now that I know what the o84a doesn't exist.

[edirtyfour]

Word is back from the state trooper, and the ticket has been deciphered a little more. I'm still at work, will update soon.

Okay - after looking at the ticket and talking to a trooper, Corey got a lucky break. While his speeding is referenced on the ticket he is not cited for speeding, he was cited for a violation of 730 CMR 7.08(4)(a), which is parking in a marked no parking area under the turnpike's jurisdiction. This is not a surchargable offense, although it will end up on his record if he pays the ticket.

State troopers have the authority to enforce both MGL Chapter 90 and CMR Title 730, so they can write citations for violations of both. The trooper said sometimes he personally will do something like this when a driver does something wrong but is very courteous, has a clean record, etc.

[BealeAss]

Word is back from the state trooper, and the ticket has been deciphered a little more. I'm still at work, will update soon.

Okay - after looking at the ticket and talking to a trooper, Corey got a lucky break. While his speeding is referenced on the ticket he is not cited for speeding, he was cited for a violation of 730 CMR 7.08(4)(a), which is parking in a marked no parking area under the turnpike's jurisdiction. This is not a surchargable offense, although it will end up on his record if he pays the ticket.

State troopers have the authority to enforce both MGL Chapter 90 and CMR Title 730, so they can write citations for violations of both. The trooper said sometimes he personally will do something like this when a driver does something wrong but is very courteous, has a clean record, etc.

Nick=the man.

Welp looks like I'm out $50 which is just fine considering. It's not worth fighting like hell over $50 and I don't want to bite the hand that did me a big favor.

[Itsablurr]

Slick. It all makes sense now.


Yes, Nick does = the man.

[BealeAss]

Slick. It all makes sense now.


Yes, Nick does = the man.

Still sorting this out...

[edirtyfour]

Nick=the man.

Welp looks like I'm out $50 which is just fine considering. It's not worth fighting like hell over $50 and I don't want to bite the hand that did me a big favor.


Slick. It all makes sense now.


Yes, Nick does = the man.

Meh, when you go through all the bullshit yourself you start learning about the system and how fucked up it is.


Still sorting this out...

Dispatch likely has no clue. I presume a lawyer will concur with the surchargeable assessment... I don't see how it could be as it's not listed in 211 CMR 134.


Roffle @ this being #5 on google for a search for 211 CMR 134.

[FredK]

sooo handsome right now

[SatanVsJesus]

Roffle @ this being #5 on google for a search for 211 CMR 134.

Google knows all. It knows the results you are getting are all asking the same question without any answers, it just doesnt care.

[snek]

He won't get an insurance surcharge (or more correctly loose his good driver discount), but it will go on his record. Next time, he won't get a break.

The cops are very proud of the fact they have the discretion of dispensing warnings instead of just citations. The fact the OP did get a ticket and not a warning says only one thing: it's all about money.

Know your rights. Support the NMA. (http://www.motorists.org/ma)

[BealeAss]

Well the saga continues, I have a call in to an attorney to see exactly wtf is the deal with this ticket as I also believe the dispatcher doesn't necessarily know the truth.

[edirtyfour]

sooo handsome right now

;)

[edirtyfour]

update?

[BealeAss]

update?

Put a call into Beanfree, nothing back in a few days over the holiday weekend.

[55fanatic]

He may be traveling, I think I read somewhere he was in India, or headed to

[dophineh]

fight it. any method known to mankind of detecting speed has a 5 mph error in court.

[BealeAss]

fight it. any method known to mankind of detecting speed has a 5 mph error in court.

I'm starting to lean that way and just send it in not guilty.

[edirtyfour]

Might be a good call... if worst comes to worst you can always pay at some point in the process and be done with it. Might be worth keeping your options open.

Coming up on the time limit though... don't you have 7 days?

[BealeAss]

Might be a good call... if worst comes to worst you can always pay at some point in the process and be done with it. Might be worth keeping your options open.

Coming up on the time limit though... don't you have 7 days?

Apparently 20 days according to the ticket

[edirtyfour]

Apparently 20 days according to the ticket

Mail it in and contest it then. At least you keep your options open.

[NHskibm]

Deb just got a letter from MA saying she needs driver re-education... 90 days from this hearing date and no course means suspended license for her!!!

5 tickets in 3 years!!!

3 Speeding
1 Expired Inspection
1 Took the left before Harvard St. in Brighton during the no left turn time and got caught....

She's none too pleased...

[Itsablurr]

^ Yea, I got that letter a couple years back.... its a bullshit scheme, esp when the tickets work out like debs.

[NHskibm]

yeah... MA is ridiculous...

I on the other hand have only lost my license 3 times... all before 18... haha...

[55fanatic]

^ Yea, I got that letter a couple years back.... its a bullshit scheme, esp when the tickets work out like debs.
Ive gotten that a couple times... easy peasy

[edirtyfour]

Been there done that

3x no inspection sticker (long story but it was only a dime size hole of body rot)
1 speeding
1 other super minor infraction that I can't even remember


It's all a bunch of horseshit.