STX motor swap

[ding]

Is it legal to have a motor swaped car in STX, say an e36 325 with a m52 engine, and if so, could you then use the m50 manifold. And if it is legal could you then take a e30 325 and drop in a m52, and still run stx. Just wonder, was thinking about an e30 project.

[Corky325]

Hmmm

[rpob5t]

your answer lies within:

http://cms.scca.com/documents/Solo_Rules/2009_Solo_Rules.pdf

[ding]

Hmmm

haha, just wondering, and I was wondering about a e30 today.

[HotDoggin]

I think it's not possible, unless the engine that you race with is a "stock option" in the car other than the permitted mods in STX...

Like rpob5t said -- Check the rules for specifics...

[Mooobunnny]

If you could not get that exact motor with that exact intake manifold on it in the year car it is going into, it is not legal...

[ding]

If you could not get that exact motor with that exact intake manifold on it in the year car it is going into, it is not legal...
this is kinda what I thought, so an 93 918 could have a m50 in it

[fsmtnbiker]

Only if it was converted 100% to a 6-cylinder car (trans, diff ratio, interior trim, options, etc.)

[joenationwide]

If you could not get that exact motor with that exact intake manifold on it in the year car it is going into, it is not legal...

Yep, and thats why you cant run a 95 M3 with a 3.2L engine in STU. FML. :(

[GotCone?]

Only if it was converted 100% to a 6-cylinder car (trans, diff ratio, interior trim, options, etc.)

that wouldn't be legal still. For STX.

[Mike S]

I believe it would be legal under the Stock rules. The version you convert to would have to be available in your model year and the conversion would have to be absolutely positively 100%. The slightest thing wrong would be grounds for protest.

It would be far easier and less costly to sell the current car and buy one of the models you prefer.

Mike

[GotCone?]

the post above said '93 918 which I assume he means 318... which never came w/ a 6 cyl and conversion wouldn't be legal in stock or st*

you can only ud/bd in SP or further up the class ladder.

[325racer]

There is a difference between UD/BD and a "FULL CONVERSION". UD/BD is combining things that never Existed together, by taking the best of each model. "Full Conversion" is completely taking one car and converting it into another model that did exist. The Conversion option is LEGAL in Stock class. However, as Mike said it Must be EVERYTHING, down to the same Parking brake cable.

[Corky325]

Only if it was converted 100% to a 6-cylinder car (trans, diff ratio, interior trim, options, etc.)
So if you had a stock 94 325, and you put an m3 3.23 lsd in it. You cant run stx?


the post above said '93 918 which I assume he means 318... which never came w/ a 6 cyl and conversion wouldn't be legal in stock or st*

you can only ud/bd in SP or further up the class ladder.

What if you had a 93 318, and put the 325 engine in it. Could you not just enter it as a 325 (presuming its a stock m50), and not a 318?
It wouldnt be any faster, except maybe because of the diff.

[John in Houston]

So if you had a stock 94 325, and you put an m3 3.23 lsd in it. You cant run stx?

Nope. Not unless a 3.23 was available in that exact 94 325 model (as LSDs are open, but gear changes are not).


What if you had a 93 318, and put the 325 engine in it. Could you not just enter it as a 325 (presuming its a stock m50), and not a 318?
It wouldnt be any faster, except maybe because of the diff.

Everything from the 325 would have to come over. All interior, body and chassis differences have to be resolved. A complete conversion, not partial.... and you better have documentation.

[GotCone?]

can someone quote the rule number from the book that gives this conversion allowance for stock?

I'd like to read up on it.

Thanks - Jon

[Corky325]

Nope. Not unless a 3.23 was available in that exact 94 325 model (as LSDs are open, but gear changes are not).



Everything from the 325 would have to come over. All interior, body and chassis differences have to be resolved. A complete conversion, not partial.... and you better have documentation.

Thanks, i guess im stuck in DSP.

[BrianGT]

can someone quote the rule number from the book that gives this conversion allowance for stock?

I'd like to read up on it.

Thanks - Jon

From page 59, on the first page of the stock class allowances:


Option package conversions may be performed between specific
vehicles of a particular make and model, but only between configurations
from within a particular model year. Such conversions must
be totally complete and the resultant car must meet all requirements
of this Section. These requirements are not met by simply
pulling a fuse to disable a feature which distinguishes one model
from another.

As for the referenced conversion, 318 -> 325 might be nearly impossible to do while keeping everything legal. You would need to make sure that the actual chassis is identical, as well as all other components. If the 325 had different internal chassis bracing or metal thicknesses, it would be impossible to use the 318 chassis.

I wouldn't go to Nationals with a converted car without knowing and documenting every aspect of the legality. It is much easier and cheaper to just sell the 318 and buy a 325. Even with complete documentation, the car would be suspect and open to protest IMO. If the car is just for local events, just check with your competitors in your class, and if they are fine with what you have, run it.

[GotCone?]

Option package conversions may be performed between specific vehicles of a particular make and model, but only between configurations from within a particular model year.

I read this as saying one can convert option and/or package configurations between like vehicles of the same year, make, and model.

I.E. package A on a 325 to a package configuration B of a same year 325.

I don't read this saying you can convert a 318 to 325 or vice versa even if same year parts are used. As it clearly states make and model not make and chassis.

I.E. 318, 325, 328, etc. as models... not a broad '3 series' model.


Such conversions must be totally complete and the resultant car must meet all requirements of this Section. These requirements are not met by simply pulling a fuse to disable a feature which distinguishes one model from another.

The use of model here is confusing... should probably state 'option package' verses 'model' or something similar.

Am I really the only one reading the rule this way?

Thanks - Jon

[325racer]

Think outside BMW. This rule is to allow someone to "Build" a limited production car. Say there was some super hot car that on X were made. This rule would allow someone to Build that car,as long as every part was the same as the way it would come from the factory.

[GotCone?]

limited production cars aren't eligible for autocross in stock class. There are series produced requirements.

[Mooobunnny]

limited production cars aren't eligible for autocross in stock class. There are series produced requirements.

NC Miata MS-R package, AP2 S2000 CR etc...

[John in Houston]

FS- Shelby GT is the big one right now.

[GotCone?]

do you all consider those 'readily available' cars as limited production?

I think of something that you can't just go down and order as being 'limited' I.E. only 500 will be sold in US, etc.

[BrianGT]

For the 2007 Mazda MX-5 MS-R, there were only reportedly a few of them built, but at least a handful of people have been able to create their own from Miata MX-5 SV or Sport model. It is not that hard of a conversion, taking a 5-speed car, adding the LSD, oil cooler, bracing, rear swaybar, springs, SV steering wheel if starting from Sport model, and putting some 17" wheels on the car.

As for converting a 318 -> 325, I would not feel comfortable in making the conversion and expecting the car to be legal for Stock or a Street Touring class.

[fsmtnbiker]

R-Package Miatas for ES also come to mind.

[ding]

well in any mater, I'm not doing any of the above, I was just wondering, because the wording it kind of vag, but in the meaning of the class, Street Touring, I would think its not legal.

[GotCone?]

For the 2007 Mazda MX-5 MS-R, there were only reportedly a few of them built, but at least a handful of people have been able to create their own from Miata MX-5 SV or Sport model. It is not that hard of a conversion, taking a 5-speed car, adding the LSD, oil cooler, bracing, rear swaybar, springs, SV steering wheel if starting from Sport model, and putting some 17" wheels on the car.

As for converting a 318 -> 325, I would not feel comfortable in making the conversion and expecting the car to be legal for Stock or a Street Touring class.

agreed.

package conversion -vs- complete drivetrain conversions

way different IMHO.