e36 m3s with cams what did you run

[whitecord]

I am weighing out my options. i have most of a active turbo kit but need about 1800(most of that cost is a tune) to finish it. but as money is getting tight with work slowing down. i have been considering selling the stuff i have and picking up a set of cams. i have really been looking at the bw sunbelts as they seem to net more hp.

from what i have read from searching people with the sunbelts trap 105 to 106. and guys with schricks are around 103 to 104?

really my goal is around e46 m3 times. thanks

[luv4myE36]

just an FYI i tip toed on the highway on my buddies E46 M3 that ran a 13.3
i have intake M50 mani, and conforti software.
if youre a good driver and can get a good launch, E46 M3 times will not need cams.

[whitecord]

I am looking for e46 trap speed. As a healthy well driven e46 should have no problem with a e36. I have gotten a 1.9 60 so driving is not my problem.

[whitecord]

well i am not sure i would want to remove my rear seats as i use them often.(2 girlfriends) plus i dont have the fold down seats. so removing the back cushin and bottom would prob net half that. but you do have a point. most of the time i dont go over a 100 when i race.

i would like the extra power with out the gutting.

[OnUrleft]

Check the N/A standings for my time it was done along time ago. You'll be able to hold off stockish E46 M3's until about the top of 4th gear (120ish) with that set up at about 3200lbs w/ driver (seeing you've done seats/flywheel/exhaust weight reduction mods).

Not the best drag mod, but the power/torque shift made a helluva difference on the road course

[MrBlonde]

NA can't compare with FI ... find the money.

[bennyfizzle]

well i am not sure i would want to remove my rear seats as i use them often.(2 girlfriends) plus i dont have the fold down seats. so removing the back cushin and bottom would prob net half that. but you do have a point. most of the time i dont go over a 100 when i race.

i would like the extra power with out the gutting.

:rofl

[whitecord]

;)

[m3chaser]

Why not just sell your turbo parts and get a used S/C set up?

[jworms]

considering e46 M3 performance is typically low-mid 13s at around 105-106mph. you can get e46 M3 results without cams if you're willing to lose weight in other places...

lightweight battery - 30lbs saved
full exhaust (single pipe if you can) - 60-70lbs saved
no spare - 45lbs saved
wheels (get some nice 16lbs ones) - 25-30lbs saved
lighter front seats (reclinable for your girlfriends) - 50-70lbs saved

so that's a total weight savings between 210lbs and 245lbs without really sacrificing much. couple that with a 1/4 tank of gas (assuming gas is around 7lbs per gallon that's another 70lbs dropped) and i think you'll be able to easily get E46 M3 performance from your e36 M3 with most bolt-ons sans cams (around 240rwhp-250rwhp).

of course, your mileage may vary. you may end up needing cams for your specific situation...on the other hand, you may not need everything i mentioned to do it.

[whitecord]

i can deal with the fixed seats. but at that point i might as well put the turbo in with the money i would spend. i am considering swaping to obd1 if i can do it cheap enough as i have the tune for a aa stage2 turbo that made 420whp.

i had considered doing the used sc idea. but if it wasn't a strait trade i would rather put the turbo in as it will yield more power.

all and all i just want to see what people have ran because i like the idea of keeping it na and when money becomes more available turbo another car and not my dd.

[///M3 CRAZY]

NA can't compare with FI ... find the money.

+1 especially on the s50/52 engines. now worth wasting the money on N/A mods. just find more hours to work or get a second job but do not waste your time with N/A!

[e30polak]

Unless you can do cams for $500 with a tune, the power gains are not worth it compared to a turbo or blower. Plenty of supercharger kits sell for 2500-3000 used with a tune which will definitely get you trapping higher then an e46 m3. Or you could swap your motor into an e30, and beat e46 m3s without cams or FI. :stickoutt

[zenn0ne]

Unless you can do cams for $500 with a tune, the power gains are not worth it compared to a turbo or blower. Plenty of supercharger kits sell for 2500-3000 used with a tune which will definitely get you trapping higher then an e46 m3. Or you could swap your motor into an e30, and beat e46 m3s without cams or FI. :stickoutt

HAHA:lol Thats So True

[BrenM3]

just an FYI i tip toed on the highway on my buddies E46 M3 that ran a 13.3
i have intake M50 mani, and conforti software.
if youre a good driver and can get a good launch, E46 M3 times will not need cams.

i own both cars with the mods you listed, the e36 even has real m50 man software and i assure you you are smoking crack.

[KnudsonsM3]

Im heading to the drags in a couple hours...Ill let you know what i do.

[Hova]

i own both cars with the mods you listed, the e36 even has real m50 man software and i assure you you are smoking crack.


:rofl


i dunno.... my m3 has m50 mani, SS headers, 3" straight pipe, 3.5" intake, and sw, and i know i cant "beat" an E46 m3, but below 100-110mph im def within a car length of just about any ive ran with.

over that speed though... u see the e46 just start walking away, slowly... but still does beat me.

[KnudsonsM3]

i had a good time at the drags....see sig for time :)

[whitecord]

what was your best trap speed. or was that it?

[KnudsonsM3]

best trap was 104.xx

[BrenM3]

ok so the fully bolted camed and tuned e36 trapped 3-4mph less then a stock e46 on average of 102-104, can we end this debate lol

ps your car is flawless love it.

[KnudsonsM3]

ok so the fully bolted camed and tuned e36 trapped 3-4mph less then a stock e46 on average of 102-104, can we end this debate lol

ps your car is flawless love it.

My car is flawless? or was that directed at someone else?

I had crappy tires as well. I couldnt launch above 2000 rpm so it KILLED my 60' time. With some good 255s ill get a 1.8 :D (my generals are 235 :( )

As for me being FULL NA, Not yet, I have 3 more mods to make me full NA, then i will be hoping for 13.2 :buttrock

[jworms]

ok so the fully bolted camed and tuned e36 trapped 3-4mph less then a stock e46 on average of 102-104, can we end this debate lol

ps your car is flawless love it.

there are E36 M3s with far less than "fully bolted cammed and tuned" setups that are trapping 102-104mph. i would not use those results as the standard.

knudson, what did you pull in the 1/8th (ET/trap)? weight reduction? weather?

[KnudsonsM3]

knudson, what did you pull in the 1/8th (ET/trap)? weight reduction? weather?

took out spare and rear seats.

I did an 8.7 1/8th mile. But like ive said a million times, i couldnt launch over 2000 rpms which KILLED me :(

It was 85 out and humid.

My friend went to the same strip last night and did .2 better(he had an auto) in his 1/4 as it was 20 to 30 degrees cooler. So i think there is room for improvement on my end.

My goal with a few more mods and good tires is 13.0ish

Edit: what is the benefit of 3.5" HFM (unplugged) (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=687627)???

read the thread but...

[jworms]

took out spare and rear seats.

I did an 8.7 1/8th mile. But like ive said a million times, i couldnt launch over 2000 rpms which KILLED me :(
what was your trap speed in the 1/8th?


It was 85 out and humid.

My friend went to the same strip last night and did .2 better(he had an auto) in his 1/4 as it was 20 to 30 degrees cooler. So i think there is room for improvement on my end.

My goal with a few more mods and good tires is 13.0ish
ahhh, ok. that explains why you weren't able to do much better. get back out there when it's colder and run those times!


Edit: what is the benefit of 3.5" HFM (unplugged) (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=687627)???

read the thread but...

there is no benefit. i only did it out of necessity because my tune is sh*t and that seemed to fix it.

[creeves328]

Best you finish your turbo kit with the cash. Don't purchase cams right now, as they may not be the best setup for your turbo.


there is no benefit. i only did it out of necessity because my tune is sh*t and that seemed to fix it.

Yep. Jon was pretty darn lean with it. Going by his dyno charts, seems his software was made for the original HFM. His larger HFM gave him more flow, less velocity which translated into a lower voltage output reading to the DME. Course he already knows this.

[m3chaser]

ok so the fully bolted camed and tuned e36 trapped 3-4mph less then a stock e46 on average of 102-104, can we end this debate lol

ps your car is flawless love it.

Huh? My M Coupe that weighs 3130lbs with me in it and M50 manifold only went 102mph in the 1/4. I would be a good run for most E46 M3's if they are in stock form or some minor bolt ons in the 1/4 but I would get beat up on the highway without a doubt.

[rpm620]

13.55 in my M3 full interior.. minus spare and jack. at 99.95

[jworms]

13.55 in my M3 full interior.. minus spare and jack. at 99.95

mods?

[savage217]

Ive done 101 in the 1/4 with some minor weight reduction, engine bolt ons and a 3.38 diff. I think 102 possibly 103 is the best I could do now.

[rpm620]

mods?


Chip
intake
uuc underdrive pullys
uuc stage 2 flywheel
aa track pipe
uuc system u
missing trunk floor carpet, jack, spare tire.. but to add some of that back in my whole trunk was covered with dynomat extreme.
255/45/17 sumitomo tires



Car had Full interior minus what i said above and its weight was 3350 with me in it and a half tank of gas.

all times a speeds are in sig.

[jworms]

Chip
intake
uuc underdrive pullys
uuc stage 2 flywheel
aa track pipe
uuc system u
missing trunk floor carpet, jack, spare tire.. but to add some of that back in my whole trunk was covered with dynomat extreme.
255/45/17 sumitomo tires



Car had Full interior minus what i said above and its weight was 3350 with me in it and a half tank of gas.

all times a speeds are in sig.
ahh ok. i just wanted to make sure it wasn't with cams in regard to the main thread topic. that's pretty good with the mods you had.

Ive done 101 in the 1/4 with some minor weight reduction, engine bolt ons and a 3.38 diff. I think 102 possibly 103 is the best I could do now.
i assume this is also without cams?

i really feel that a cammed US spec e36 M3 should trap no less than 105-106 if driven properly and conditions allow it.

[rpm620]

ya i want to put cams in my motor but i think im going to go FI instead.

[MdMcoupe]

Cams were a waste of time, been there done that...at least for me.

Like MrBlonde said, find the money for FI.....;)

[OnUrleft]

Cams were a waste of time, been there done that...at least for me.

Like MrBlonde said, find the money for FI.....;)

Yes. If you are dragging, don't waste your time. It's mainly shifting power up, and adding give or take 12-18whp max.

[BrenM3]

Huh? My M Coupe that weighs 3130lbs with me in it and M50 manifold only went 102mph in the 1/4. I would be a good run for most E46 M3's if they are in stock form or some minor bolt ons in the 1/4 but I would get beat up on the highway without a doubt.

a stock 6spd m3 COUPE with a decent driver will trap 106 no problem in good conditions

what you described is called driver mod, they dont get an additional overboost on the highway




i really feel that a cammed US spec e36 M3 should trap no less than 105-106 if driven properly and conditions allow it.

i dont think evidence has supported this

[jworms]

a stock 6spd m3 COUPE with a decent driver will trap 106 no problem in good conditions

what you described is called driver mod, they dont get an additional overboost on the highway
i think he meant as far as ET was concerned (so a race from a stop). stock E46 M3s generally run in the low 13s -- similar to m3chaser. of course, with the trap speed difference, the E46 M3 is going significantly faster towards the end of the run and is on its way to passing him.



i dont think evidence has supported this

you're right, none has yet...but i also think that not many have tried with a car setup as such. also take into account that the bar for the E36 M3 platform in naturally aspirated form has undergone some adjustment in the last couple of years due to some key players coming out of the wood-work. i definitely don't believe we've seen all that these cars can do yet.

[BrenM3]

while i tune odb2 E36 M3's and tuned my own 3.2L + M50 + intake + exhaust car....

I can say I don't see anything short of nitrous/extreme weight reduction/gears getting these cars on par with a E46.

For whats its worth on the E36 I'd rather a cheap used 2k vf kit with water injection and a custom tune (odb2)

but jworms, your numbers are awesome below. Great driving.

[creeves328]

ahh ok. i just wanted to make sure it wasn't with cams in regard to the main thread topic. that's pretty good with the mods you had.

i assume this is also without cams?

i really feel that a cammed US spec e36 M3 should trap no less than 105-106 if driven properly and conditions allow it.

And you're probably going to be the one to do it Jon.


you're right, none has yet...but i also think that not many have tried with a car setup as such. also take into account that the bar for the E36 M3 platform in naturally aspirated form has undergone some adjustment in the last couple of years due to some key players coming out of the wood-work. i definitely don't believe we've seen all that these cars can do yet.

We haven't. Most tuner mods are 1 size fits all and they tend to target reducing restriction. This usually results in power gains, but not producing the best power result. Cam duration changes, changes in peak torque, and even ambient temp requires changes in intake/exhaust tuning (not talking s/w).

[jworms]

while i tune odb2 E36 M3's and tuned my own 3.2L + M50 + intake + exhaust car....

I can say I don't see anything short of nitrous/extreme weight reduction/gears getting these cars on par with a E46.

For whats its worth on the E36 I'd rather a cheap used 2k vf kit with water injection and a custom tune (odb2)

but jworms, your numbers are awesome below. Great driving.

my car doesn't have nitrous, extreme weight reduction, or gears and, according to my numbers (and real world interactions with them), it's pretty on par with an E46 M3 -- if not slightly faster... but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

if i had gears (i will soon, unfortunately -- just broke my diff) it would be even worse for the e46...then, with the addition of cams, headers, pullies, and traction control delete, the e46 M3 would be hurting pretty bad and i would expect my car to trap at least 107-108mph. that 105-106mph that i mentioned before for a cammed e36 M3 was pretty conservative in my opinion.

while my numbers might be impressive, the thing is... i know i'm not the greatest driver around and i know my car has some inherent flaws with it that make it not ideal for drag racing (difficult to shift -- probably tired synchros, lack of real tune -- thanks AA, etc.). my results should be reproducible without much trouble. i think the seemingly lackluster results for these cars thus far is due to the e36 M3 naturally aspirated community not being as interested in drag racing (rightly so, i doubt many people bought their E36 M3 for drag racing) and therefore doesn't put much effort into getting admirable results at the drag strip.


And you're probably going to be the one to do it Jon.



We haven't. Most tuner mods are 1 size fits all and they tend to target reducing restriction. This usually results in power gains, but not producing the best power result. Cam duration changes, changes in peak torque, and even ambient temp requires changes in intake/exhaust tuning (not talking s/w).

there are others who are are probably closer than i am to getting the results i'm looking for...but we'll see.

and i totally agree with the off-the-shelf stuff that is sold for these cars...hopefully we'll see more innovation on that front in the near future ;)

[whitecord]

well i ended up picking up some supercharger parts and am going to peice the stuff together. i would of done cams if i got as good as a deal as i did on the supercharger stuff. jworms what kind of weight reduction do you have.

watch his videos guys his car is a factory freak. very fast for what he has done.

[jworms]

well i ended up picking up some supercharger parts and am going to peice the stuff together. i would of done cams if i got as good as a deal as i did on the supercharger stuff. jworms what kind of weight reduction do you have.

watch his videos guys his car is a factory freak. very fast for what he has done.

pretty basic stuff:
removed front seats and installed a single fixed-back driver seat
removed rear seats (bench/backs)
removed spare wheel/tire
replaced stock battery with a lightweight battery - odyssey pc680
aftermarket exhaust
lightweight flywheel/clutch assembly
1/4 tank of fuel
D-Force LTW5 wheels

with all that the car is around 2860lbs (haven't weighed it since the addition of the wheels)

[BrenM3]

pretty basic stuff:
removed front seats and installed a single fixed-back driver seat
removed rear seats (bench/backs)
removed spare wheel/tire
replaced stock battery with a lightweight battery - odyssey pc680
aftermarket exhaust
lightweight flywheel/clutch assembly
1/4 tank of fuel
D-Force LTW5 wheels

with all that the car is around 2860lbs (haven't weighed it since the addition of the wheels)

it's all speculation till you actually do it.

every bolt on + tune + weight reduction to get pulled past 110 by a stock tired e46 m3 isnt really an accomplisment in my eyes.

Making 295whp-300whp in a E46 is a drop in filter/ebay headers or a custom tune nowadays. 108-110+ traps and that's full weight.

with the basic bolt ons I have I find it more interesting to run full weight 5-6psi s/c'd ODB2 M3's.

I really find the S52 a turd of a motor when N/A after all the work I did and tuning of the stock DME. It's really a tarted up base model motor to start. It doesn't do much for me with the current offerings on the market. It's great for boost though. Similar to the old VR6's.

like i said i own both cars and this is what I see when we drive/switch drivers

http://www.youtube.com/v/ejD_IHmocs4&hl=en&fs=1&


e36 has
cams
headers
m50 intake manifold
conforti intake
fuel injectors
high flow MAF
conforti software.

It's a 99 M3 and the engine was rebuilt 5000 miles ago.

e46 is all stock, minus a panel filter and muffler (eisenmann race, no power gains to be had from it)

these two guys (obidian and the stig) are two of the most well known racers in the M3FORUM.net community and both own e36/e46 as well.

your car is lightened and seems to make stout power and you are a good driver you can certainly set a benchmark, however this is what I see from day to day cars.

[jworms]

it's all speculation till you actually do it.
agreed. though the speculative evidence for my car is pretty overwhelmingly in favor of my car trapping at least 105mph. check the 1/8th mile results in my sig for more on that.

also, how many stock E46 M3s trap as much as i do in the 1/8th? from what i've found, very very few do. and even fewer (if any?) trap higher.


every bolt on + tune + weight reduction to get pulled past 110 by a stock tired e46 m3 isnt really an accomplisment in my eyes.
i don't get pulled past 110. here's a video of my car vs a stock e46 M3 SMG detailing that very scenario 60mph to 130mph. notice that he starts off a bit ahead of me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U7l_MTN1iQ

here's some more detailed numbers from another experience at a local crappy drag strip:
stock e46 M3 6spd timeslip driven by a person i know to be a pretty good driver (left side):
http://whatjonsaid.com/m3/in.car.times.and.dyno/strip/07.11.2007-calispeedway/small/DSC01685.jpg

my car (left side, same day, same track):
http://whatjonsaid.com/m3/in.car.times.and.dyno/strip/07.11.2007-calispeedway/small/me.calispeedway.timeslip.jpg

notice that i trap higher than the e46 M3 and that i gained more mph in the back half than the e46 M3 did. so at 100mph, i'm still going faster...




Making 295whp-300whp in a E46 is a drop in filter/ebay headers or a custom tune nowadays. 108-110+ traps and that's full weight.
agreed. and even though i was talking about stock e46 M3s, here's some more videos to represent that modified e46 M3 scenario...

in this video, a modded E46 M3 SMG (a member on here and other forums) with 3.91 Diff, Streamline Panel Filter, Stebro Section 1 mid pipe, BHS Under Drive Pulleys, Back seats removed, and Drag Radials runs at a local drag strip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyzUKTuFNC8
he pulls a 13.395@102.1mph

note: the drag strips around socal are absolutely horrible (elevation/conditions/etc.) so don't judge the cars too harshly (it's the sole reason i haven't been to a 1/4 mile drag strip to achieve what i have set out to accomplish). this exact same E46 M3 with the same mods ran at a good sea level track with good conditions and pulled 12.8@108mph

now, here's what my car ran the exact same day at the same track that the e46 m3 pulled 13.395@102.1mph:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNupAgo0Yh4
i pulled 13.73@101.1mph

don't look at the ET because the E46 had DRs. look at the trap speeds...they don't lie... i trapped only 1mph less than the modded e46 M3. can you imagine what i might run at the same sacramento drag strip the e46 pulled a 108mph trap? how about if i added cams, headers, etc. to my car? also, my car is a bit faster than it was for those runs (replaced some bent valves which actually yielded a bit of power and added lighter wheels).

for fun, here's a stock e46 M3 vert SMG on the same day, same track:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsHzcNLT_-U
he pulls 14.36@96.9mph



with the basic bolt ons I have I find it more interesting to run full weight 5-6psi s/c'd ODB2 M3's.
me too, my friend. me too ;)


I really find the S52 a turd of a motor when N/A after all the work I did and tuning of the stock DME. It's really a tarted up base model motor to start. It doesn't do much for me with the current offerings on the market. It's great for boost though. Similar to the old VR6's.

like i said i own both cars and this is what I see when we drive/switch drivers

http://www.youtube.com/v/ejD_IHmocs4&hl=en&fs=1&


e36 has
cams
headers
m50 intake manifold
conforti intake
fuel injectors
high flow MAF
conforti software.

It's a 99 M3 and the engine was rebuilt 5000 miles ago.

e46 is all stock, minus a panel filter and muffler (eisenmann race, no power gains to be had from it)

these two guys (obidian and the stig) are two of the most well known racers in the M3FORUM.net community and both own e36/e46 as well.

your car is lightened and seems to make stout power and you are a good driver you can certainly set a benchmark, however this is what I see from day to day cars.
not sure what to say about your results other than "your mileage may vary".

if you check the thread they made on m3forum you'll see the controversy that the races between obidian and the stig stirred up. Serious (a member on here) even made a thread in the e36 M3 section on here about the guys on m3forum and their race results...Serious is an e46 M3 owner that has butted heads with me before on this very topic and even he admitted that those results were not quite right. that thread is here if you're interested: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=971237

you may be right about the "day-to-day" cars analogy and i'm not saying my results are typical...but there's nothing preventing people from reproducing them with cars that are even better setup than mine. this is exactly what i meant by the bar being adjusted by the few who have come out of the wood-work recently.

[BrenM3]

so wait your car did 101 as is?

See thats normal for your mods, maybe 102-maybe a freak 103. Thats a far cry away from 106-107-108. Modded vs. stock is a silly argument - but you are aware their are documented E46 M3's that have done 12s and trapped 108+. I feel like your fighting an uphill battle here.

You know I have both cars right? Roll race them against each other all the time, its NOT pretty.

you are familiar with these videos right? With a guy that actually gave a shit about dragging an M3

BONE STOCK - down to the tires

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYq19YRTGL4

thread where he chimed in

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=145836


stock with DR's and weight reduction (pass seat out, lw flywheel)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be_-ePfpH_Q&feature=related

got in some random camera guys m3 with muffler axle back with his DR's (we all know this does nothing)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY1cNrkY5cU&NR=1

he end up doing the best of 12.29@112 with filter/underdrive/4.10/dr

[jworms]

so wait your car did 101 as is?

See thats normal for your mods, maybe 102-maybe a freak 103. Thats a far cry away from 106-107-108. Modded vs. stock is a silly argument - but you are aware their are documented E46 M3's that have done 12s and trapped 108+. I feel like your fighting an uphill battle here.

You know I have both cars right? Roll race them against each other all the time, its NOT pretty.

you are familiar with these videos right? With a guy that actually gave a shit about dragging an M3

BONE STOCK - down to the tires

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYq19YRTGL4

thread where he chimed in

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=145836


stock with DR's and weight reduction (pass seat out, lw flywheel)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be_-ePfpH_Q&feature=related

got in some random camera guys m3 with muffler axle back with his DR's (we all know this does nothing)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY1cNrkY5cU&NR=1

he end up doing the best of 12.29@112 with filter/underdrive/4.10/dr

You totally missed the part about how bad the track was that the videos i posted are from (1100ft elevation, headwind, low traction track) and the fact that the modded SMG e46 M3 that ran at the same track i trapped 101.1mph only trapped 102.1mph where he has previously trapped 108mph with an ET in the 12s at a better track. does that make sense?

and yes, i am extremely familiar with lee (mathews) rutters' drag results and his remarkable 1.7 60ft times on stock tires. they are far from common in the E46 M3 community... in fact, there isn't one other instance of anyone reproducing it as far as i know. feel free to correct me on that. and still, even with mathews, he only trapped 107mph stock. 107mph is really the max for any stock e46 M3 with them generally in the 105-106 range for decent drivers at decent tracks. again, feel free to prove otherwise, but trap speed just doesn't lie...even with a famous drag racing figure behind the wheel power-shifting the hell out of the car.

what you're missing from your modded results mathews was able to accomplish is that he ran weight reduced. i remember a thread where he mentioned his car weighed in the 3000-3100 lbs range...not exactly stock. that, combined with his mods, doesn't surprise me too much that he was able to pull 112mph trap speeds. his ET is simply a testament to his driving ability.

and believe me, i know what an uphill battle it is to convince people on something they assumed for many years wasn't possible...that's why i come prepared with numerous points of reference as outlined in my previous reply. how can you dismiss everything else i put on display? and it's not like i'm the only one doing this...if you look around hard enough you'll notice more people are beating E46 M3s with their lightly modded e36 M3s. it's becoming the norm. the bar is being raised. increase your skill or accept it.

also, if you want more mathews footage (including an in-car one!), i have a bunch that i saved here a while ago:
http://whatjonsaid.com/m3/videos/
look for the videos with lee in the front of them.

...if you look even more closely you'll find more footage (including some in-car) from my runs at the crappy drag strip where i pulled 13.7@101.

[MrBlonde]

Jon what is your best ET to date in your modded E36 M3?

[jworms]

Jon what is your best ET to date in your modded E36 M3?

1/8th mile is the best comparison i can provide (in my sig). everything else is from a high elevation track with bad conditions (as mentioned above).

[MrBlonde]

1/8th mile is the best comparison i can provide (in my sig). everything else is from a high elevation track with bad conditions (as mentioned above).

You've only had passes on poor drag strips, I get that. But what's your best ET, short time and trap speed in the 1/4 mile to date? You can post the DA and atmospherics as well as the track if you want.

[jworms]

You've only had passes on poor drag strips, I get that. But what's your best ET, short time and trap speed in the 1/4 mile to date? You can post the DA and atmospherics as well as the track if you want.

i don't see the relevance with using a basically bogus 1/4 mile timeslip, but i'll take the bait. my best to date is in the video i posted above:
13.7@101.1mph with a 2.22 60ft.

[creeves328]

you are familiar with these videos right? With a guy that actually gave a shit about dragging an M3

BONE STOCK - down to the tires

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYq19YRTGL4

Bone stock down to tires, eh? Looks like aftermarket wheels to me. Not to mention the launch, looks like he's running some very sticky stock tires.

Seems you're interested in discrediting Worms. I can understand pride in the e46, the S54 is just a lovely wonder, everything about it is far superior to the US S52. The only tech it missed out on is valvetronic (no throttle bodies).

Course, a street race isn't a true measure of 1/4 performance, but Worms did perform well vs the e46 M3 (video he posted). Also, your vid post of the modded e36 M3 performed pretty poorly I'd say vs a "stock" e46 M3. My modded 328 performs better than that against a local e46 M3 6spd w/exhaust/intake/SSK.

Looking forward to your next 1/4 mile Jon, it'll clear up the doubts.

[jworms]

Bone stock down to tires, eh? Looks like aftermarket wheels to me.

Seems you're interested in discrediting Worms. I can understand pride in the e46, the S54 is just a lovely wonder, everything about is far superior than the US S52. The only tech it missed out on is valvetronic (no throttle bodies).

Course, a street race isn't a true measure of 1/4 performance, but Worms did perform well vs the e46 M3 (video he posted). Also, your vid post of the modded e36 M3 performed pretty poorly I'd say vs a "stock" e46 M3. My modded 328 performs better than that against a local e46 M3 6spd w/exhaust/intake/SSK.

Looking forward to your next 1/4 mile Jon, it'll clear up the doubts.
that's because, in those runs, mathews wasn't running bone stock. i think he was even weight reduced for that run (i can't really see the passenger seat sitting next to him in the car). again, he was able to weight reduce his very lightly optioned e46 M3 to something in the 3000-3100lbs range.

and believe me, i'm looking forward to my next run in with the drag strip...especially with a new diff :evil2

[BrenM3]

Bone stock down to tires, eh? Looks like aftermarket wheels to me. Not to mention the launch, looks like he's running some very sticky stock tires.

Seems you're interested in discrediting Worms. I can understand pride in the e46, the S54 is just a lovely wonder, everything about it is far superior to the US S52. The only tech it missed out on is valvetronic (no throttle bodies).

Course, a street race isn't a true measure of 1/4 performance, but Worms did perform well vs the e46 M3 (video he posted). Also, your vid post of the modded e36 M3 performed pretty poorly I'd say vs a "stock" e46 M3. My modded 328 performs better than that against a local e46 M3 6spd w/exhaust/intake/SSK.

Looking forward to your next 1/4 mile Jon, it'll clear up the doubts.

I'm not discrediting anybody, I'm simply offering a more realistic perspective. Who tries to maximize BOTH cars for bolt on performance/acceleration.

If you would take a closer look at the thread - which you kindly omitted from you response, of Mathews talking about how those were indeed stock tires on those wheels.

I wouldn't be interested in a video of your 328 racing an M3, no offense.

E36 guys tend to be in la la land that they are a shark injector and cai away from hanging with E46's, it's not possible sorry.


that's because, in those runs, mathews wasn't running bone stock. i think he was even weight reduced for that run (i can't really see the passenger seat sitting next to him in the car). again, he was able to weight reduce his very lightly optioned e46 M3 to something in the 3000-3100lbs range.

and believe me, i'm looking forward to my next run in with the drag strip...especially with a new diff :evil2

do you have a scale weight on his car? that's all speculation. He removed the front seats for the modded pass, the other one is done stock - this has been documented - as much as the previous poster wants to put his head in the sand. Mathew was a stand up guy. With less mods then you and mild weight reduction he eventually cracked off a 12.2@112. An E36 will need a rocket booster to do that, or weigh 1900lbs

ET aside You are about 6-7 mph short of a capable stock vehicle, not sure how a diff is going to change that. Even less so with a few mods. It's a far more capable car. As the E92 is to the E46 (some trapping 116-117 with tune/pulley) It's the natural progression of advancement.

Work within your own boundaries of progressing the E36 M3 without making silly benchmarks and apples to orange conversations.

[jworms]

do you have a scale weight on his car? that's all speculation. He removed the front seats for the modded pass, the other one is done stock - this has been documented - as much as the previous poster wants to put his head in the sand. Mathew was a stand up guy. With less mods then you and mild weight reduction he eventually cracked off a 12.2@112. An E36 will need a rocket booster to do that, or weigh 1900lbs
it's not speculation. mathews straight up admitted it in a thread on m3forum, but thanks for playing.

edit: here you go - http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?p=500008#post500008

and i quote:


I put it on the scale at the track, I think it was 3050 lbs. with no driver.
and another post in that same thread: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?p=500041#post500041

My car is lightly optioned. I also have ssr comps on it. The passenger seat and rear seat backs out. I take all the tools and tire inflation kit out also. I run with about 3 gallons of gas when I race. What else, no mats or spare change in the car.





ET aside You are about 6-7 mph short of a capable stock vehicle, not sure how a diff is going to change that. Even less so with a few mods. It's a far more capable car. As the E92 is to the E46 (some trapping 116-117 with tune/pulley) It's the natural progression of advancement.

Work within your own boundaries of progressing the E36 M3 without making silly benchmarks and apples to orange conversations.
sigh, you just don't get it. reading comprehension > you.

reread the context of my 101.1mph trap and the modded e46 M3 that trapped 102.1mph that same day, same track then come back and form a valid response. while you're at it, let the rest of the evidence i provided soak in :thumbup:

[BrenM3]

it's not speculation. mathews straight up admitted it in a thread on m3forum, but thanks for playing.

edit: here you go - http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?p=500008#post500008

and i quote:


and another post in that same thread: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?p=500041#post500041

interesting he quoted here they are stock tires on his stock run

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=145836

you are mix and matching two videos, STOCK + ssr comps + full weight video vs. modded + which had weight reduction etc and going for better times.

Are you really going to argue lack of options as a means of speed? One could argue 01-02 vs. other years M3's put down different stock numbers due to VANOS maps as demonstrated by M54B32 the tuner - so he did this on the "inferior" year.

Thanks for backing up his weight though I didn't see that.


sigh, you just don't get it. reading comprehension > you.

reread the context of my 101.1mph trap and the modded e46 M3 that trapped 102.1mph that same day, same track then come back and form a valid response. while you're at it, let the rest of the evidence i provided soak in :thumbup:your sample of data would make even the most feeble scientist cry. That does not mean nor prove anything.

When your car goes 104-105mph full weight on 91 oct, you will have my attention - outside of that its nothing more then EVERY other E36 I see including my own w. a decent driver.

Still not sure what you're arguing about as you readily admitted these driven E46's are 105-106 cars - which they are with a freak at 107-108 here and there. Your car is not even close to that - not weather, not jesus, maybe something outside of a rocket strapped to your rear decklid may produce that speed as your car sits and traps. Let that soak in.

[jworms]

interesting he quoted here they are stock tires on his stock run

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=145836

you are mix and matching two videos, STOCK + ssr comps + full weight video vs. modded + which had weight reduction etc and going for better times.
i never said they weren't stock tires. can you show me where i said that?

and he was obviously not bone stock down the the tires in that run. the wheels are not stock, furthermore:

Only mod on his car are underdrive pulleys.

from here: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=1385241#post1385241

what else is interesting about that run is that he only trapped 106mph -- a pretty standard stock E46 M3 trap speed. that leads me to believe his car may not have been weight reduced at that time (hard to say based solely on the video and i didn't see it mentioned in the thread). this does not disqualify the fact that he did weight reduce his car on other runs.



Are you really going to argue lack of options as a means of speed? One could argue 01-02 vs. other years M3's put down different stock numbers due to VANOS maps as demonstrated by M54B32 the tuner - so he did this on the "inferior" year.


Thanks for backing up his weight though I didn't see that.
i never argued it. i was merely pointing out facts. feel free to argue with the facts though; i won't take part in that.


your sample of data would make even the most feeble scientist cry. That does not mean nor prove anything.

When your car goes 104-105mph full weight on 91 oct, you will have my attention - outside of that its nothing more then EVERY other E36 I see including my own w. a decent driver.

Still not sure what you're arguing about as you readily admitted these driven E46's are 105-106 cars - which they are with a freak at 107-108 here and there. Your car is not even close to that - not weather, not jesus, maybe something outside of a rocket strapped to your rear decklid may produce that speed as your car sits and traps. Let that soak in.

you really don't get it. do you really believe that different tracks don't produce different results due to elevation, weather conditions, track prep, etc.? mathews would not achieve the same results at a crappy socal track that he was able to at e-town (a known fast track at sea level with DAs known to get into the negatives).

how did that E46 M3 SMG trap 108mph at the sea level drag strip in sacramento, yet only trapped 102.1mph at california speedway with the same mods? explain that one.

i have a feeling you have very little drag racing experience. it would benefit you to do some reading on external factors that affect cars for drag racing. otherwise you end up looking like a(n) ...

[BrenM3]

i never said they weren't stock tires. can you show me where i said that?

and he was obviously not bone stock down the the tires in that run. the wheels are not stock, furthermore:


from here: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=1385241#post1385241

what else is interesting about that run is that he only trapped 106mph -- a pretty standard stock E46 M3 trap speed. that leads me to believe his car may not have been weight reduced at that time (hard to say based solely on the video and i didn't see it mentioned in the thread). this does not disqualify the fact that he did weight reduce his car on other runs.



i never argued it. i was merely pointing out facts. feel free to argue with the facts though; i won't take part in that.

we agree here all i can see from as far as I researched is that was a stock run, not at one point did Mathew say he just had UDP's on. Kind of a stupid mod. I was mixing your conversation up with creeves who michael moore'd his way around deleting the info about the stock tires in what he quoted.




you really don't get it. do you really believe that different tracks don't produce different results due to elevation, weather conditions, track prep, etc.? mathews would not achieve the same results at a crappy socal track that he was able to at e-town (a known fast track at sea level with DAs known to get into the negatives).

how did that E46 M3 SMG trap 108mph at the sea level drag strip in sacramento, yet only trapped 102.1mph at california speedway with the same mods? explain that one.

i have a feeling you have very little drag racing experience. it would benefit you to do some reading on external factors that affect cars for drag racing. otherwise you end up looking like a(n) ...

I have friends in cali who trap 106, heat, 91 oct, multiple tracks its not hard. Your one day at the track with some newbs in E46's means less then 0, more along the lines of negative proof. Not sure if you don't get that. Let that sink in, really.

I went to the track once and saw an e36 trap 96 with your mods, the day I was going 108.1 - lets frame that and call it a truth? Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds?

Your excuses are plentiful, I figured you were more logical then that. It's not the same car. Each car isn't created equal let alone drivers.

Like i said come back with 104-105 (giving you headroom for weak octane and cali DA handicap) on 91 at your pick of track in Cali full weight - otherwise you are ricer mathing your DA and conditions to prove your car is faster then it was that day at that track. It's nothing more then a number on a sheet. You barely broke 100.

Nor I don't care about your bad track or ricer excuses, run the number you say you can - drive to another track - or shut up. It's really that simple.

[jworms]

we agree here all i can see from as far as I researched is that was a stock run, not at one point did Mathew say he just had UDP's on. Kind of a stupid mod. I was mixing your conversation up with creeves who michael moore'd his way around deleting the info about the stock tires in what he quoted.



I have friends in cali who trap 106, heat, 91 oct, multiple tracks its not hard. Your one day at the track with some newbs in E46's means less then 0, more along the lines of negative proof. Not sure if you don't get that. Let that sink in, really.

I went to the track once and saw an e36 trap 96 with your mods, the day I was going 108.1 - lets frame that and call it a truth? Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds?

Your excuses are plentiful, I figured you were more logical then that. It's not the same car. Each car isn't created equal let alone drivers.

so you always trap the same 108mph at every track under any conditions? you should try to profit on whatever methods you use to achieve that! lots of drag racers would love to be that consistent, especially those ones in colorado where elevation is 4000+ ft above sea level! hell, you should call NHRA up and let them know that correction factors are not necessary anymore with your secret methods!

btw, it was multiple days at the drag strip with multiple E46 M3s and their respective drivers..one of which i believe still holds the record for one of the fastest s/c setups on an E46 M3...he's such a newb...

Like i said come back with 104-105 (giving you headroom for weak octane and cali DA handicap) on 91 at your pick of track in Cali full weight - otherwise you are ricer mathing your DA and conditions to prove your car is faster then it was that day at that track. It's nothing more then a number on a sheet. You barely broke 100.

Nor I don't care about your bad track or ricer excuses, run the number you say you can - drive to another track - or shut up. It's really that simple.
i figured you would resort to that. don't worry, the results will come soon enough. until then, keep on fighting the good fight. it will only make it that much sweeter for me in the end :thumbup:

[MrBlonde]

All this back and forth when all that really matters is the timeslip.

Got one? Great.

Not got one? Shut up until you do, nobody cares.

[jworms]

All this back and forth when all that really matters is the timeslip.

Got one? Great.

Not got one? Shut up until you do, nobody cares.
i agree, but you have to put that in context with the topic at hand. this topic didn't start off with providing real timeslips from my car. in fact, it started with me saying quite clearly that nobody has done what we're talking about yet, but that i feel it's quite possible/probable that it will happen to which i provided evidence to support this claim. here's a bunch of quotes:


i really feel that a cammed US spec e36 M3 should trap no less than 105-106 if driven properly and conditions allow it.


i dont think evidence has supported this


you're right, none has yet...but i also think that not many have tried with a car setup as such. also take into account that the bar for the E36 M3 platform in naturally aspirated form has undergone some adjustment in the last couple of years due to some key players coming out of the wood-work. i definitely don't believe we've seen all that these cars can do yet.


MrBlonde, i know you have a ton of experience at the drag strip and i have a ton of respect for your insight and knowledge on the topic. given the previous statements about the hypothetical nature of this thread and using your knowledge on the subject, what do you think my car could trap (maybe provide a range of speeds?) in the 1/4 mile given my 1/8th mile results? i think this is a reasonable question and i would hope that you would be willing to give a reasonable answer.

also, what did you want with my best 1/4 mile timeslip? i was expecting some kind of magic with that :)

and i'd love to see some timeslips from BrenM3 (both of his cars)

[MrBlonde]

i agree, but you have to put that in context with the topic at hand. this topic didn't start off with providing real timeslips from my car. in fact, it started with me saying quite clearly that nobody has done what we're talking about yet, but that i feel it's quite possible/probable that it will happen to which i provided evidence to support this claim. here's a bunch of quotes:

MrBlonde, i know you have a ton of experience at the drag strip and i have a ton of respect for your insight and knowledge on the topic. given the previous statements about the hypothetical nature of this thread and using your knowledge on the subject, what do you think my car could trap (maybe provide a range of speeds?) in the 1/4 mile given my 1/8th mile results? i think this is a reasonable question and i would hope that you would be willing to give a reasonable answer.

also, what did you want with my best 1/4 mile timeslip? i was expecting some kind of magic with that :)

and i'd love to see some timeslips from BrenM3 (both of his cars)

Jon my comments weren't directed at you per se, just when there is a LOT of talking from people about drag racing, it's always best to keep it simple. And simple is all about your best timeslip to date.

The same with extrapolating trap speeds from half track speeds .. it's usually not very illuminating and nothing beats just getting out there and running a good pass with timeslip/video documentation.

I totally understand your frustration with a "slow" drag strip. The atmospheric conditions along with track prep do make a difference to results. Never more so than with heavy and underpowered cars like a BMW street car with NA inline 6.

Good luck with achieving your goals.

[jworms]

Jon my comments weren't directed at you per se, just when there is a LOT of talking from people about drag racing, it's always best to keep it simple. And simple is all about your best timeslip to date.

The same with extrapolating trap speeds from half track speeds .. it's usually not very illuminating and nothing beats just getting out there and running a good pass with timeslip/video documentation.

I totally understand your frustration with a "slow" drag strip. The atmospheric conditions along with track prep do make a difference to results. Never more so than with heavy and underpowered cars like a BMW street car with NA inline 6.

Good luck with achieving your goals.

i can accept that and thanks :)

[creeves328]

I wouldn't be interested in a video of your 328 racing an M3, no offense.

I never offered. No offense taken.

Warmest Regards!

[BrenM3]

All this back and forth when all that really matters is the timeslip.

Got one? Great.

Not got one? Shut up until you do, nobody cares.

:lol

Jworms, thanks for coming in today

[whitecord]

well all this wasn't the info i was hoping to get. lol

[KnudsonsM3]

http://smiliesftw.com/x/retard_ugh_clap.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

[BrenM3]

13.3@107.5 the other night, 90 degrees out.......chrome 1000lb 20" iforged on UHP's, trunk and rear full of vacation gear. Just jumped off the highway into staging lanes, cut a 2.2 60 and made a pass, it rained, continued on my journey.

thanks jworms <3

[m3chaser]

13.3@107.5 the other night, 90 degrees out.......chrome 1000lb 20" iforged on UHP's, trunk and rear full of vacation gear. Just jumped off the highway into staging lanes, cut a 2.2 60 and made a pass, it rained, continued on my journey.

thanks jworms <3

So what you are telling me is you can't drive then. I ran a 13.4@100mph with stock gears, M50 manifold, and catback in my under powered S52 M Coupe making 220rwhp. Now I have 3.73lsd, so I will be getting back to the track later in the year to see if I can run the same time as your godly E46 M3. Give me your car and by the end of the day I will be in the 12's.

I won't say what I think my car can do with the 3.73lsd, but if I run a 13.3 or better the next time I go to the track with just 3 mods and 220rwhp then maybe you should consider having someone else drive your car to get a decent time out of it.


Jeremy Clarkson said that all M3 drivers (E46 and newer) are Cocks and I think you fit that mold based on this thread alone.

Oh and where's the time slip?

[BrenM3]

I'm sorry dude you can preach this till your blue in the face. no one cares about you and your S52 boat anchor time in a different/lighter car. Nor does this argument have to do with you. It has to do with the S52 being a brick tied in N/A form. Put it in an E30 M3 and it's mildly entertaining

what that tells me is that your 100 trapping car would fall somewhere back into the next zip code when racing a 107-108 car with proper traction/and or acceleration contest. My E36 traps 101.5 with just an M50 does that make your M shoe with similar mods, a POS? or are you just a bad driver or have a weak motor?

Did you not read I made ONE half ass pass in 90 degree weather in show trim (chromed 20s) with 100s of lbs of things in the trunk and then left due to rain? of course I can cut a better 60 ft!

my timeslip is in my wallet - if you would like I can mail it to you along with a box of super adsorbent tampons - please PM me your mailing address :)

[m3chaser]

I'm sorry dude you can preach this till your blue in the face. no one cares about you and your S52 boat anchor time in a different/lighter car. Nor does this argument have to do with you. It has to do with the S52 being a brick tied in N/A form. Put it in an E30 M3 and it's mildly entertaining

what that tells me is that your 100 trapping car would fall somewhere back into the next zip code when racing a 107-108 car with proper traction/and or acceleration contest. My E36 traps 101.5 with just an M50 does that make your M shoe with similar mods, a POS? or are you just a bad driver or have a weak motor?

Did you not read I made ONE half ass pass in 90 degree weather in show trim (chromed 20s) with 100s of lbs of things in the trunk and then left due to rain? of course I can cut a better 60 ft!

my timeslip is in my wallet - if you would like I can mail it to you along with a box of super adsorbent tampons - please PM me your mailing address :)

I never said my car would beat you on the highway, and as a matter of fact my first post in this thread said that you or any other S54 would walk me on the highway but I would give most a run for their money down the 1/4 mile. The only way I could get to that trap speed is FI so you car is without a doubt faster on the highway. The funny thing is is that I have a car that is extremely underpowered and 3120lbs with me in it (not a lightweight) and I am still running right with you in the 1/4 mile with 2 mods. That tells me that you can't drive and will make excuses as to why your godly E46 M3 is only running a weak 13.3 for the speed it is trapping.

I don't want to hear about a crappy pass with heavy wheels. I want to see a decent time out of your car and a 13.3 is not it IMHO when trapping 107mph. I don't think I am off base in saying that on a cool day your car could trap 108mph but you would still be stuck on that 13.3 because you can't really drive your car.

I just think it is sad that you have probably 50rwhp if not more than me and can only ET .1 faster than me when all I had done to the car at the time was an M50 manifold and a catback.

Come back in this thread when you learn how to drive.

Edit:

I forgot to mention that I have trapped 101mph more times than I can count and have trapped 102mph on a 90 degree day as well. So to answer your question, my M Coupe is right on par as far as power goes compared to your E36 M3 but I am just a better driver than you because you might be lucky if you can get your E36 M3 to ET anywhere close to a 13.7. Chances are you ET'd somewhere in the vicinity of a 13.9.

[BrenM3]

i made one pass that night, I've made several others (that were better in the past in his car) - i was just giving jworms an update as he asked for it :)

You are almost as delirious as Jworms that my ONE PASS in unfavorable conditions represents my driving as a whole. Apparently you are not a scientist as well.

Not that I was looking to set any records making one pass mid vacation trip like I've done in the WRX community, but I know my way around a drag strip. If I was serious I would have lowered tire pressure, hell yet changed my wheels, taken excess weight out. That's not what I care for in my E46. But I did it as is for fun to see what it could do under crappy conditions in vacation. And it trapped pretty damn well :). I got a kick out of it - sorry you did not.

Not to put you down but understand I have more 1.6-1.7 60 ft low 12 second passes in my other car under my belt then you have for your whole dragging career with your Mshoe. I have been drag racing everything from mustangs, to turbo civics, to superbikes since I was 16 years old. I have cut everything from 1.6 60 fts to a 2.8 - trapped 86 to 131 - it's life at the dragstrip. ;)

But do me a favor, Pat yourself on the back for me after you are doing refrigerator magnetizing your blazing mid 13 second timeslip :embarrasm Also still waiting for the PM with your PO BOX address.

[m3chaser]

i made one pass that night, I've made several others (that were better in the past in his car) - i was just giving jworms an update as he asked for it :)

You are almost as delirious as Jworms that my ONE PASS in unfavorable conditions represents my driving as a whole. Apparently you are not a scientist as well.

Not that I was looking to set any records making one pass mid vacation trip like I've done in the WRX community, but I know my way around a drag strip. If I was serious I would have lowered tire pressure, hell yet changed my wheels, taken excess weight out. That's not what I care for in my E46. But I did it as is for fun to see what it could do under crappy conditions in vacation. And it trapped pretty damn well :). I got a kick out of it - sorry you did not.

Not to put you down but understand I have more 1.6-1.7 60 ft low 12 second passes in my other car under my belt then you have for your whole dragging career with your Mshoe. I have been drag racing everything from mustangs, to turbo civics, to superbikes since I was 16 years old. I have cut everything from 1.6 60 fts to a 2.8 - trapped 86 to 131 - it's life at the dragstrip. ;)

But do me a favor, Pat yourself on the back for me after you are doing refrigerator magnetizing your blazing mid 13 second timeslip :embarrasm Also still waiting for the PM with your PO BOX address.


First of all let me make it clear that I already bought tpons last night so there is no need to send you my address. Secondly, what are you doing with extra absorbant tpons!? I have an excuse for buying them because I am married, so what is your excuse?

Seriously though, what is your best time for your 101mph E36 M3? A 13.4 isn't very fast at all for sure, but it is very fast for my car with the little bit of mods that I have. With all of your experience that you say you have, and I believe you, you should be able to run right with me down the 1/4 mile in your E36 M3 wouldn't you say?

I am just busting your balls about your time. It's a decent time for sure for your car, but when I run within a tenth of your time and your car is a whole lot more powerful with apparently a much more seasoned driver behind the wheel one has to wonder how that is possible.

I realize that you have only done one pass with the car but like Mr. Blonde said is true and that is that your car is only as fast as your best slip and until you provide a faster slip than a 13.3 it isn't faster than a 13.3.

Also, what was your 1/8th mile trap speed?

[BrenM3]

First of all let me make it clear that I already bought tpons last night so there is no need to send you my address. Secondly, what are you doing with extra absorbant tpons!? I have an excuse for buying them because I am married, so what is your excuse?

Seriously though, what is your best time for your 101mph E36 M3? A 13.4 isn't very fast at all for sure, but it is very fast for my car with the little bit of mods that I have. With all of your experience that you say you have, and I believe you, you should be able to run right with me down the 1/4 mile in your E36 M3 wouldn't you say?

I am just busting your balls about your time. It's a decent time for sure for your car, but when I run within a tenth of your time and your car is a whole lot more powerful with apparently a much more seasoned driver behind the wheel one has to wonder how that is possible.

I realize that you have only done one pass with the car but like Mr. Blonde said is true and that is that your car is only as fast as your best slip and until you provide a faster slip than a 13.3 it isn't faster than a 13.3.

Also, what was your 1/8th mile trap speed?

Oh I agree.

I am more of a trap speed guy (personal preference) - I do tuning and my power is represented in that manner. Consistency is key too. And just like the "dyno queen races" to me a car is as fast as the trap represents. You can have all the traction in the world but if your car is down on power and traps low you will always be behind. I am also this way because the closest track is two hours away and regularly rains and/or get 2 passes in unfortunately.

I think it's great people drag race BMW's, but I know that's not where my car stands.

If I saw jworms car trap 104+ I'd be really impressed. But from my experience with the S52 is they ET hard and trap low, demonstrating the motor really having no backhalf power to not nosedive. Your car is a perfect example of it. I've driven a few stock STi's to a 13.3@99-100. Thats witha 1.7 60 ft. That's what impresses me about BMW's (yours and E36 bolted) is their 1/8 mile capability. Unfortunately with my UHP failures/lack of seat time/and heavy optioned lard of a E46 - That isn't my strong point.

1/8th was 82.51 :confused

[m3chaser]

Oh I agree.

I am more of a trap speed guy (personal preference) - I do tuning and my power is represented in that manner. Consistency is key too. And just like the "dyno queen races" to me a car is as fast as the trap represents. You can have all the traction in the world but if your car is down on power and traps low you will always be behind. I am also this way because the closest track is two hours away and regularly rains and/or get 2 passes in unfortunately.

I think it's great people drag race BMW's, but I know that's not where my car stands.

If I saw jworms car trap 104+ I'd be really impressed. But from my experience with the S52 is they ET hard and trap low, demonstrating the motor really having no backhalf power to not nosedive. Your car is a perfect example of it. I've driven a few stock STi's to a 13.3@99-100. Thats witha 1.7 60 ft. That's what impresses me about BMW's (yours and E36 bolted) is their 1/8 mile capability. Unfortunately with my UHP failures/lack of seat time/and heavy optioned lard of a E46 - That isn't my strong point.

1/8th was 82.51 :confused


You tune OBD2? That is few and far between. Do you work for TMS or some other known vendor?

I asked about the 1/8th mile trap because I have trapped 83mph several times but only ended the 1/4 at 101-102mph but all with bad launches so I only ran 13.7's. Also, Jworms traps 86mph in the 1/8th so even if he only gains 19mph after the 1/8th mile which is normal for the S52 he is going to trap 105mph at the very least.

There have been a couple runs where I trapped 21mph and 22mph after the 1/8th and that was when I was making 212rwhp. Jworms has at least 20rwhp than me now so I think giving him the benefit of the doubt on trapping 19-21mph after the 1/8th is fair wouldn't you say?

[BrenM3]

You tune OBD2? That is few and far between. Do you work for TMS or some other known vendor?

I asked about the 1/8th mile trap because I have trapped 83mph several times but only ended the 1/4 at 101-102mph but all with bad launches so I only ran 13.7's. Also, Jworms traps 86mph in the 1/8th so even if he only gains 19mph after the 1/8th mile which is normal for the S52 he is going to trap 105mph at the very least.

There have been a couple runs where I trapped 21mph and 22mph after the 1/8th and that was when I was making 212rwhp. Jworms has at least 20rwhp than me now so I think giving him the benefit of the doubt on trapping 19-21mph after the 1/8th is fair wouldn't you say?

Yes I tune ODB2.....I work for myself. TMS does their own thing.

I see your logic, but what I want to say and said before and stand firm on this. Is that evidence hasn't supported that ever in that car has been out for 14 years. Along with what Mr. Blonde says - it's not done till its a slip.

Assuming I 60 ft'd well and trapped 84-86 in the quarter like other similar E46's who don't suck with me currently doing 24-25mph like i did the other day in the backhalf on a crappy hot day. I'd have a 109-111 trap. My car has filter/custom tune. Same as Mathews, minus im fully optioned.

[m3chaser]

Yes I tune ODB2.....I work for myself. TMS does their own thing.

I see your logic, but what I want to say and said before and stand firm on this. Is that evidence hasn't supported that ever in that car has been out for 14 years. Along with what Mr. Blonde says - it's not done till its a slip.

Assuming I 60 ft'd well and trapped 84-86 in the quarter like other similar E46's who don't suck with me currently doing 24-25mph like i did the other day in the backhalf on a crappy hot day. I'd have a 109-111 trap. My car has filter/custom tune. Same as Mathews, minus im fully optioned.

Are you affiliated with TRM then? How did you get into tuning OBD2? From my understanding it is really hard to tune OBD2. Do you have a shop or business that I could reference?

Ok enough with the questions. I see what you are saying about the producing a slip and I agree. However based on what a slower S52 like mine does after the 1/8th I think it is safe to say that Jworms with more rwhp would run at least as fast as I do after the 1/8th.

You said you would be very impressed if his car could trap 104mph and that means that he would need to only make up 18mph after the 1/8th traps which will happen when he gets the chance to go to the track and I think you know that.

Also, your car with better prep (getting rid of the luggage and heavy rims) would trap 109mph right now I would imagine even on a 90 degree day.

[BrenM3]

Are you affiliated with TRM then? How did you get into tuning OBD2? From my understanding it is really hard to tune OBD2. Do you have a shop or business that I could reference?

Ok enough with the questions. I see what you are saying about the producing a slip and I agree. However based on what a slower S52 like mine does after the 1/8th I think it is safe to say that Jworms with more rwhp would run at least as fast as I do after the 1/8th.

You said you would be very impressed if his car could trap 104mph and that means that he would need to only make up 18mph after the 1/8th traps which will happen when he gets the chance to go to the track and I think you know that.

Also, your car with better prep (getting rid of the luggage and heavy rims) would trap 109mph right now I would imagine even on a 90 degree day.

I am affiliated with a few tuning companies and individuals but not TRM. ODB2 tuning is not hard - most companies out there that do it bought it elsewhere overseas :) Even some of the most in-house companies you know right now. You would be surprised when I say there are 10 or more companies not on this site that can tune your ODB2 BMW's.

Anyways, I have a 11.5 slip in my WRX that reads legit, It was a 12.5 car......It was a 12.5 slip but it says 11.5 for some reason. It was a glitch. I had people coming up to me congratulating me for no reason. If Jworms car can do it - it would have done it by now. He ran 13.7@101 which is what his car should run with its mods if you scale back in E36 drag history. I'm not sure if his 1/8th was a freak run like my 11.5 problem. I'm not sure if he has backed it up or it was a one off run. I would be interested in seeing that.

8.2@84 is what my wrx ran with a 1.9 60 ft (being nice to it) and did 12.8s all day.

[m3chaser]

I am affiliated with a few tuning companies and individuals but not TRM. ODB2 tuning is not hard - most companies out there that do it bought it elsewhere overseas :) Even some of the most in-house companies you know right now. You would be surprised when I say there are 10 or more companies not on this site that can tune your ODB2 BMW's.

Anyways, I have a 11.5 slip in my WRX that reads legit, It was a 12.5 car......It was a 12.5 slip but it says 11.5 for some reason. It was a glitch. I had people coming up to me congratulating me for no reason. If Jworms car can do it - it would have done it by now. He ran 13.7@101 which is what his car should run with its mods if you scale back in E36 drag history. I'm not sure if his 1/8th was a freak run like my 11.5 problem. I'm not sure if he has backed it up or it was a one off run. I would be interested in seeing that.

8.2@84 is what my wrx ran with a 1.9 60 ft (being nice to it) and did 12.8s all day.


Ok I am going to PM you about the tuning thing cause I am getting curious now.

As for Jworms I believe he has trapped 86mph several times and has slips to prove it.

I too had a run that said I ran a 13.29@104mph but my car is just not capable of that trap or that ET at the time so I never claim that time.

[BrenM3]

Ok I am going to PM you about the tuning thing cause I am getting curious now.

As for Jworms I believe he has trapped 86mph several times and has slips to prove it.

I too had a run that said I ran a 13.29@104mph but my car is just not capable of that trap or that ET at the time so I never claim that time.

Honestly if you went 13.29@104 I would believe it. Well within the range of a freak cold night run with an M50'd light roadster. If so that's freakin sweet :buttrock

[Turbo Charg Dynam]

I You would be surprised when I say there are 10 or more companies not on this site that can tune your ODB2 BMW's.



PM me a list please.

[Sebaflex]

bumping a 3yr old thread.. curious to see what times people are running nowadays.