Adjusting the ignition timming

[Ammaretor]

I have been searching for a while, for a way to simply adjust the ignition timing for the multiple coils M5X’s engines for use a large amount of nitrous oxide , cause u have read in a book , that you can use up to 150 hp of nitrous on the S50 & S52 in the case of using a direct port nitrous system which controlled by a nitrous progressive controller + retarding the ignition timing .
So if the S50 & S52 can handle 150 hp of nitrous, I think that the M52 can handle that amount without a series problem.
So finding the direct port for a 6 cylinder engine is easy from NX, and there is a lot of progressive controller which can be used very friendly, but real problem is in retarding the ignition timing.
I have found a lot of product to retard the ignition form MSD, but it can’t support the multiple Coils system, but it will be perfect for the distributer engines like the old M20s and M30s.

But finally, I found some products to support controlling the engines with multiple coils!
The first one is from Crane Cams, and that’s a link for the product :
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=timing+controller&N=700+115+305226&autoview=sku&Ntk=KeywordSearch (http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=timing+controller&N=700+115+305226&autoview=sku&Ntk=KeywordSearch)

And they said about it:
Control your timing.

These timing retard controls from Crane are an ideal way to add zero to 20 degrees of timing retard in three modes--continuous, demand, and boost proportional--to HI-6, HI-6R, and HI-6DSR ignition systems. The sealed units can be mounted under the dash, and an LED light comes on when retard is commanded. Use them with the optional boost (MAP) sensor for boost proportional retard. They're compatible with nitrous, turbo, and supercharged on-demand retard hookup, and are not intended for underhood mounting.

The instructions:

http://store.summitracing.com/instructions.asp?File=crn%2D6000%2D6400%2Epdf (http://store.summitracing.com/instructions.asp?File=crn%2D6000%2D6400%2Epdf)


They said in the instructions:


Late Model Computer Controlled
Vehicles with Stock Electronic Ignition . . Pg 7
(most 1981 and up vehicles with O.E.
electronic ignition and engine control
computer, European vehicles with
Bosch Hall Effect ignition )


The second product from ACCEL :

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ACC%2D49375&N=700+305204+115&autoview=sku (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ACC%2D49375&N=700+305204+115&autoview=sku)



and they talked about supporting the multiple coil system .


does anyone use these products or know if it will it with the M5X and S5X engines ?

[charger758]

Daayum Cletus, just turn the disty back a few degrees and you should be set. :P

[Shuasha]

Daayum Cletus, just turn the disty back a few degrees and you should be set. :P
:chokes on coffee:

[Danny318]

http://www.perfectpower.com/products/smt6.asp

[zak]

Daayum Cletus, just turn the disty back a few degrees and you should be set. :P

lawl

[ritoab]

I have seen one guy on E46 use this product with reportedly good success but no one believe him even with him video taping how he installed and showing the car running.
I think most people have gone away from this type product because of the ability to either chip the car with a eprom or tune the DME directly. My personal experience when I owned domestic cars that I built up performance in and also had a eprom chip built for the motor. After adding nitrous to the setup I used similar product to retard timing or pulled a retarding timing light out to do this. For the life in me I have no idea why it couldn't be done injunction with with even a tuned BMW. There is also a guy in Florida that use MSD product to retard timing using product like this as well for nitrous. I thought about using this product on my current car when i first did nitrous but decided against it since there wasn't enough people with experience doing this.
Basically this was how tuning was done back in the day. Technology has changed all that. Now it's much more complex. My two Cents.

[Matt]

The only way to adjust the timming is with the tabble in the ECU.

[CPisbad]

The only way to adjust the timming is with the tabble in the ECU.

You and mike have a few drinks tonight, allstar?

[Ammaretor]

You and mike have a few drinks tonight, allstar?


loooool:lol


I have seen one guy on E46 use this product with reportedly good success but no one believe him even with him video taping how he installed and showing the car running.
I think most people have gone away from this type product because of the ability to either chip the car with a eprom or tune the DME directly. My personal experience when I owned domestic cars that I built up performance in and also had a eprom chip built for the motor. After adding nitrous to the setup I used similar product to retard timing or pulled a retarding timing light out to do this. For the life in me I have no idea why it couldn't be done injunction with with even a tuned BMW. There is also a guy in Florida that use MSD product to retard timing using product like this as well for nitrous. I thought about using this product on my current car when i first did nitrous but decided against it since there wasn't enough people with experience doing this.
Basically this was how tuning was done back in the day. Technology has changed all that. Now it's much more complex. My two Cents.


Thank Ritoab for the helpful information J , and I am with you , that’s there a lot of better tools and products to adjust the timing like the AEM , E manage and the ultimate e manage , but I am interested to know the effective of these products cause its very simple and friendly in use , especially with nitrous injection , I want to retard 4 degrees while the nitrous use , and then return to the normal mode of ignition timing while running NA !
Plus I saw this way in an old chevy vette with a dual stage of nitrous, each have 200 hp and it was very effective and safe way to prevent detonation .


http://www.perfectpower.com/products/smt6.asp

I know that the Sm6 is an effective tool with BMWs, but that tools will be simpler and friendlier in use, especially with a simple tuning plan , like have 1 big shoot of nitrous , cause I believe that 150 hp shoot of nitrous still not a big deal with an engine like the M52 or S5X ,especially with a retarded ignition timing and a nitrous progressive controller .

[ritoab]

I would say try and if it works come back and tell everyone. Be sure to do a complete write up and take lots of photos of how you done it. Also take videos of the car running with it installed. That's the only way you are going to convince people on this forum that it will work. Again, I know for a fact that it has been successfully done on a M3 with a known guy on this forum but figured i wouldn't say his name just in case he does not want everyone in his business. Yes he had ran it for years on his car. Oh I would like to add that I am not sure what DME he runs with this type setup.

[SiGmA]

OP, look at PEI330CI's build in the Track Car Build subforum, he is running a really really good piggyback system, it would do what you want. What DME are you guys running? I'm assuming its not a 413 as its a euro motor, but IF you are talking about M50/S50US, you could learn to DME tune it reasonably easily, and that would do the trick too.

[Ammaretor]

[quote=ritoab;16153512]I would say try and if it works come back and tell everyone. Be sure to do a complete write up and take lots of photos of how you done it. Also take videos of the car running with it installed. That's the only way you are going to convince people on this forum that it will work.

Thank ritoab for supporting , and I will buy this tool with , the NX direct port nitrous system and the NX progressive controller but I will got these stuffs in august when my friend come home from the USA , so I will write the thread when I got my hand on them J

[quote=SiGmA;16153589]OP, look at PEI330CI's build in the Track Car Build subforum

Thank Sigma about the great topic ! its very big and full of info , so I will read it carefully .

[quote=SiGmA;16153589]OP, look at PEI330CI's build in the Track Car Build subforum

Thank Sigma about the great topic ! its very big and full of info , so I will read it carefully .