Here is where my radiator popped

[jerkstore]

See the angry thread from the other day:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1175665

Anybody know why this happened other than a piss poor product? The radiator has 3k miles and 1.5 months on her. I bled the system on a steep incline and topped off the coolant the next morning when it was installed.

see the pictures:
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z4/jerkstorebmw/e39%20540i/SD533747.jpg
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z4/jerkstorebmw/e39%20540i/SD533748.jpg

[I8URVTC]

the child in me is laughing at that second pic :rofl its full of funny's


But srsly, get zionsville. Ive had mine since march of last year. No problems...

[Jason5driver]

What brand radiator?

Did you replace the motor mounts?

Thanks!
Jason

[jerkstore]

behr radiator. motor mounts have not been replace. was next on my list. just had to pull the tranny b/c of throwout bearing failure. why would motor mounts be the cause way down there? wouldnt it break at the neck?


the child in me is laughing at that second pic :rofl its full of funny's


But srsly, get zionsville. Ive had mine since march of last year. No problems...
I know i should, but i don't have the money right now. I just spent 700 to get the tranny pulled and the throwout bearing and guide sleeve replaced.

[JackEatsEmoKids]

reminds me of all the stuff I saw on my car yesterday when I did my rad.

I need motor mounts, oil pan gasket, oil filter housing gasket and lots of brake cleaner.

[jerkstore]

reminds me of all the stuff I saw on my car yesterday when I did my rad.

I need motor mounts, oil pan gasket, oil filter housing gasket and lots of brake cleaner.

Jack, do you think this was caused by my motor mounts? I am sure you have more experience than most working on these cars.

[Skwisgaar]

I saw your other thread and mentioned it to my indy shop guy while there to check on my coolant leak. I get to have a new water pump installed tomorrow... whoopee for me. I diy a lot of stuff, but I'm not screwing with that. He showed me how to do it and I said, "Uh... yeah. See you tomorrow." Anyway, I mentioned your thread to him. He said it's not the radiator that's the problem. Something is building too much pressure. First thing he said to do is to check your radiator cap. If it says 200 on it, get rid of it and get the new one that says 140. He said that's an old bulletin BMW put out and almost every car he works on has had it replaced by now, so that may not be your case. Next thing he said was "Is a head gasket gone on the thing?" I said, "No idea..." That might be worth checking. Sorry I can't offer anything else... other than my indy shop's address. He could fix it, but that's a long drive.

[JackEatsEmoKids]

Jack, do you think this was caused by my motor mounts? I am sure you have more experience than most working on these cars.

No. But I would def replace them.

They go out because its heat treated plastic. clipped on to alummium. They prob do expand differently, but at close rates. It HAS a lifespand. Like everything in life.

This happens to all cars because 95% of all cars have these alum/plastic radiators. When you think of it...how would they also make money if the cars were perfect?

Mine lasted 82K miles....others I've seen last 30K even less. Its just a matter of when that plastic has had enough of working for you.

Just keep the car up to shape and it'll last a long long time.

[jerkstore]

I saw your other thread and mentioned it to my indy shop guy while there to check on my coolant leak. I get to have a new water pump installed tomorrow... whoopee for me. I diy a lot of stuff, but I'm not screwing with that. He showed me how to do it and I said, "Uh... yeah. See you tomorrow." Anyway, I mentioned your thread to him. He said it's not the radiator that's the problem. Something is building too much pressure. First thing he said to do is to check your radiator cap. If it says 200 on it, get rid of it and get the new one that says 140. He said that's an old bulletin BMW put out and almost every car he works on has had it replaced by now, so that may not be your case. Next thing he said was "Is a head gasket gone on the thing?" I said, "No idea..." That might be worth checking. Sorry I can't offer anything else... other than my indy shop's address. He could fix it, but that's a long drive.
oh man you just made my night. I have the 200 cap. both the old one and the new one that has 3k miles on it are the 200 cap. I guess i need to look into the 140 cap.


No. But I would def replace them.

They go out because its heat treated plastic. clipped on to alummium. They prob do expand differently, but at close rates. It HAS a lifespand. Like everything in life.

This happens to all cars because 95% of all cars have these alum/plastic radiators. When you think of it...how would they also make money if the cars were perfect?

Mine lasted 82K miles....others I've seen last 30K even less. Its just a matter of when that plastic has had enough of working for you.

Just keep the car up to shape and it'll last a long long time.

I understand that the plastic in the radiators has a lifespan, but it only had 3k miles and a month and a half of use??:confused

[Bonswa]

Looks to me like you've got a ton of stress on that one side, especially if that's where it's leaked before. Seems to me like you're not getting any support from underneath the radiator, and everythings resting on that one area up top, that keeps cracking.

when you put the new one in, see if it bottoms out before the top comes in contact. if that top radiator mount bottoms out first, then you're not getting support below.

[JackEatsEmoKids]

oh man you just made my night. I have the 200 cap. both the old one and the new one that has 3k miles on it are the 200 cap. I guess i need to look into the 140 cap.



I understand that the plastic in the radiators has a lifespan, but it only had 3k miles and a month and a half of use??:confused

WHAT!? Make sure it was sitting properly on the mounts. What brand was that? It was a large possibilty it was half assed cripped from the manufactuer in that area.

[BlackBMWs]

Dumb quesion, but here goes... In Pic #2, there is no rubber mount. Is it still on the car or elsewhere? Bottom line, was it on the radiator when it was installed? :cool

[chiefwej]

I also had a Behr radiator leak on the plastic to aluminum seam, just two months after installing it. I called AutohausAZ (where I bought it) and they sent me a new one. I got a full credit when I sent back the defective one. One year full replacement warranty. So, call who ever you got it from and ask if they stand behind their products.

I still wound up with the cost of two more gallons of coolant and an afternoon shot replacing it AGAIN. But, better than paying for a second radiator.

[jerkstore]

Dumb quesion, but here goes... In Pic #2, there is no rubber mount. Is it still on the car or elsewhere? Bottom line, was it on the radiator when it was installed? :cool
yeah i took it off after pulling the rad


I also had a Behr radiator leak on the plastic to aluminum seam, just two months after installing it. I called AutohausAZ (where I bought it) and they sent me a new one. I got a full credit when I sent back the defective one. One year full replacement warranty. So, call who ever you got it from and ask if they stand behind their products.

I still wound up with the cost of two more gallons of coolant and an afternoon shot replacing it AGAIN. But, better than paying for a second radiator.

Yeah I got it from rmeuropean. I will be giving them a call later today.

[cnn]

My Nissens radiator now is 3 years later, knock on wood.
People use to say bad things about Nissens on roadfly. Now both Nissens and Behr share the blame. I think 1-2% of these radiators leave factory with slight defect.

Did you do a Cooling Overhaul?

Your Cooling System may run on very high pressure (defective reservoir cap, or blown head gasket etc.) causing leak through the O-ring (yes, there is an O-ring between the Aluminum part and the Plastic Side Tank).

[dgz32]

Mine was leaking in that exact same location after a pressure test on the car. Coolant would run down and end up dripping off the inside driver corner. When I went to replace it, all of the hoses were loose...to the point that I could turn the clamp screws with my fingers. At the time I felt that it was entirely possible that the loose upper hose was allowing a trickle to run down over the plastic/alum seam and appear as a leak in that area. That said, I went ahead and changed it anyway as I had the new radiator on hand.

I've been meaning to get the radiator itself pressure tested, but haven't gotten around to it yet. It was only 8 months old w/5k miles on it. Brand new BHER.

[jerkstore]

My Nissens radiator now is 3 years later, knock on wood.
People use to say bad things about Nissens on roadfly. Now both Nissens and Behr share the blame. I think 1-2% of these radiators leave factory with slight defect.

Did you do a Cooling Overhaul?

Your Cooling System may run on very high pressure (defective reservoir cap, or blown head gasket etc.) causing leak through the O-ring (yes, there is an O-ring between the Aluminum part and the Plastic Side Tank).

Entire cooling system overhaul completed in early Jan. I do have a new 2.0 bar cap which was replaced be the 1.4 bar cap apparently. No signs of head gasket failure, but I have not completed a compression test.


Mine was leaking in that exact same location after a pressure test on the car. Coolant would run down and end up dripping off the inside driver corner. When I went to replace it, all of the hoses were loose...to the point that I could turn the clamp screws with my fingers. At the time I felt that it was entirely possible that the loose upper hose was allowing a trickle to run down over the plastic/alum seam and appear as a leak in that area. That said, I went ahead and changed it anyway as I had the new radiator on hand.

I've been meaning to get the radiator itself pressure tested, but haven't gotten around to it yet. It was only 8 months old w/5k miles on it. Brand new BHER.

I am positive it wasn't the upper hose.

[BlackBMWs]

The data that a 1.4 Bar cooling cap is current spec is new news. We should get that in CN90's DIY since that almost automatically goes out to folks who ask. I wonder how going to the lower pressure affects the cooling atributes on the V8s... My understanding for the 2.0 Bar in the V8s case was that the BMW engineers deemed that the higher pressure was needed to balance cooling, emissions, fuel efficiency and performance. Did I drink the BMW Kool-Aid?

I need to check my cap too, Zionsville or not... :cool

[Doru]

The data that a 1.4 Bar cooling cap is current spec is new news. We should get that in CN90's DIY since that almost automatically goes out to folks who ask. I wonder how going to the lower pressure affects the cooling atributes on the V8s... My understanding for the 2.0 Bar in the V8s case was that the BMW engineers deemed that the higher pressure was needed to balance cooling, emissions, fuel efficiency and performance.

I need to check my cap too, Zionsville or not... :cool

Prolly that's why quite a few e39ers radiators live long. I changed the coolant a month ago (I do it every 2 years) and every time I do it, I notice some cooland spewing around the radiator cap. Then it settles and it's OK. Have 70k on the car now, no issues (knock on wood)
It's the 140 cap.

[teedub21]

Any consensus on this? Maybe the 200 cap is for the v8? The caps do fail. My 97 540 had a cooling system overhaul and the indy shop tested my cap and said it was bad.

[NNY528I]

Does that cap spec apply to the I6 as well?

As to the failure it has all the hallmarks of a manufacturing error and I would not be rushing out to swap my motor mounts. If motor mounts had anything to do with it 10 you would have had a crack up at the neck 2) you would have extreme motion of the engine during reving, probably enough to hear as it banged around on the mounts 3) you would be able to clearly see the engine move if you watched it while reving.

I think you got a dud radiator and you should be able to get it replaced under warranty, if the reseller wont help you go to the manufacturer, you could also try going to a different reseller and telling your story, you might find them willing to honor the warranty in order to make you a new customer(as it is a minimal cost to them to claim the warranty from the manufacturer)

[Doru]

Any consensus on this? Maybe the 200 cap is for the v8? The caps do fail. My 97 540 had a cooling system overhaul and the indy shop tested my cap and said it was bad.

How do you test it?

This MIGHT be the ticket (our ticket) for the cooling system? The cap is plastic, and has MOVING parts in it. It's exposed to pressure, and expansion/contraction cycles. If it fails, it will take the cooling (rad) system with it.
Maybe just changing the cap every 2 years or 30 - 40 k might be our a*s saving in this matter?

0.02

[NNY528I]

How do you test it?

This MIGHT be the ticket (our ticket) for the cooling system? The cap is plastic, and has MOVING parts in it. It's exposed to pressure, and expansion/contraction cycles. If it fails, it will take the cooling (rad) system with it.
Maybe just changing the cap every 2 years or 30 - 40 k might be our a*s saving in this matter?

0.02

I doubt this is the saving grace, the failures are in the plastic, not at the joints, I would expect the joints or hoses to fail before the plastic. It still cant hurt for the minimal cost of the part.

[jnyost]

Is the 1.4bar a different part number? Anyone have it? I'll try to look into it if no one has it.

[peterv]

See the angry thread from the other day:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1175665

Anybody know why this happened other than a piss poor product? The radiator has 3k miles and 1.5 months on her. I bled the system on a steep incline and topped off the coolant the next morning when it was installed.

see the pictures:
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z4/jerkstorebmw/e39%20540i/SD533747.jpg
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z4/jerkstorebmw/e39%20540i/SD533748.jpg

You said this is the third rad since Oct. Did they all leaked on the same spot? This might give you a clue on what is causing the issue, such as motor mounts that others suggested.

[NNY528I]

PS. It is a Petcock not a Pep cock.

Small thing i know but my Pendantry gene is kicking in when i look at those photos.

[Doru]

I doubt this is the saving grace, the failures are in the plastic, not at the joints, I would expect the joints or hoses to fail before the plastic. It still cant hurt for the minimal cost of the part.

Maybe it's not saving grace, but :
My story:
I did not buy the car new, I had a few miles on it, so I'm pretty sure I have the original radiator.

I did already 2 coolant flushes.
After the first flush, i noticed the level of the dipstick being high. In time it lowered, and eventually I had to add some distilled water (in 2 years). During this time, especially at the beginning I noticed some coolant stain around the cap. Same thing after my last flush over a month ago now. I can say for certain, this happens especially after a spirited driving.

Now, a while back there were some Nissens radiator failures reported same person changed a few in a row (There is a thread with pics somwhere, I think Roadfly). Also, most of the failures are reportedly on the v8. Some but not as many on the i6. Why would that be?

the v8 develops more pressure AND has a mor torquier engine, which in conjunction with old/failed engine mounts will push the radiator to failure. The cap if is working is stress relief. If not, you will have a balooned cooling system made out plastic and metal, that will not give. And if the cap will not give, and you will accelerate to pass someone inducing more pressure combined with a suuden jerk of the engine (torque) - there you have it. Kaboom.

Not to be confused with the dreaded fan clutch failure.

I am almost positive that if we would have a chance to check on members failed radiators - the cap, and if we know how to check it, it will show it was shot.

This is my simplified:
0.02

[jnyost]

Checked with the local dealer and they only stock the 2.0 bar cap. The 1.4 was news to them. What gives?

[BlackBMWs]

I just checked mine and its a 2.0 bar. So, then I called the local BMW dealer service (Niello BMW) and they don't know or recommend of a cap change for the V8s. He did mention that there are two caps, but the 2.0 cap was the only recommended one for the 540i. He mentioned the engines were supposed to run hotter and a working cap keeps it at spec.

He did mention that the caps do fail and need to be checked just like you'd check for a water pump or hose failure on these systems...

Duh, after I hung up, I realized I should asked about the i6's as well... :cool

[5mall5nail5]

haha gotta love the pep cock

[Doru]

OK So I checked and I have the 200 cap., meaning that i6 has same cap as v8. Here is the pic:
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/doru_29/Cooling/P1000684.jpg

Now here is the coolant trace when the pressure builds up (with cap on):
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/doru_29/Cooling/P1000683.jpg




And her is the same with the cap off:
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/doru_29/Cooling/P1000685.jpg

I wanted to clean that stuff a few days ago, but it is still cold, so I postponed it. Good thing, because we have the shots now.

Now the question: How can you check if the cap works or has failed. I looked, but was not able to tell.

[teedub21]

pictures aren't working

[fortunateson]

Yeah, what about the I6? I have 220km on the clock and the only problem I have re: cooling system is that I need to replace the t-stat housing. I believe the rad etc. is original. I am worried about long trips. Would a pressure test give a good indication of up-coming failure or is it totally up to the god Prestone?

[Doru]

Fixed post #31 - the pics

[eman67]

Ok guys...I have 63K on the clock on my 03 525 and you have me concerned about my radiator...what is the best radiator I can put into the car? what else do you replace besides the hoses and mounts? Let me know...I'm freakin. :eek:

[Jason5driver]

Ok guys...I have 63K on the clock on my 03 525 and you have me concerned about my radiator...what is the best radiator I can put into the car? what else do you replace besides the hoses and mounts? Let me know...I'm freakin. :eek:


If price is not a concern, then go with the Zionsville setup.

Or just use the stock OEM Behr replacement.

Jared at www.EACtuning.com (http://www.EACtuning.com) can help you out.

Jason

[RJLupin]

Ok guys...I have 63K on the clock on my 03 525 and you have me concerned about my radiator...what is the best radiator I can put into the car? what else do you replace besides the hoses and mounts? Let me know...I'm freakin. :eek:

Ideally the cooling system overhaul happens every 60-80k miles .. (ask me how I know :stickoutt ).

Whats the maintenance history on your car? What was recently changed? Do you have cooling issues? Gauge malfunctions? Coolant low signs? leaks? no heat? smoke?

If you don't have any problems, you can breathe a sigh of relief (only brief) but read more posts/threads about the cooling system which is one of the weakest in our cars. You can get the list of parts, etc and get yourself ready to do overhaul around 75k miles :)

[Skwisgaar]

Checked with the local dealer and they only stock the 2.0 bar cap. The 1.4 was news to them. What gives?


OK guys... you may want to kill me. I stopped by my indy's again and he had the numbers for the caps messed up. They used to have a 2.4 cap, then they changed to a 2.0 cap. It's been so long he must've been a little fuzzy. I'm glad he remembered to tell me... Sorry about any wild goose chases I caused. :(

[jnyost]

Ok guys...I have 63K on the clock on my 03 525 and you have me concerned about my radiator...what is the best radiator I can put into the car? what else do you replace besides the hoses and mounts? Let me know...I'm freakin. :eek:

Send me a PM or email and I can help you with a list if you'd like.

At 63k your motor mounts are probably still ok. If you want to replace them you can.


OK guys... you may want to kill me. I stopped by my indy's again and he had the numbers for the caps messed up. They used to have a 2.4 cap, then they changed to a 2.0 cap. It's been so long he must've been a little fuzzy. I'm glad he remembered to tell me... Sorry about any wild goose chases I caused. :(

Damn alzheimers. :evil2

[RJLupin]

OK guys... you may want to kill me. I stopped by my indy's again and he had the numbers for the caps messed up. They used to have a 2.4 cap, then they changed to a 2.0 cap. It's been so long he must've been a little fuzzy. I'm glad he remembered to tell me... Sorry about any wild goose chases I caused. :(

:lol this would have hugely dented my wallet as Jared said the only thing I could possibly reuse in my cooling system was the cap :rofl .. i have the 2.0 so when you talked about the 1.4 man i was crushed :bawl .. now its all good :D


Send me a PM or email and I can help you with a list if you'd like.

At 63k your motor mounts are probably still ok. If you want to replace them you can.



Damn alzheimers. :evil2

Do I need the motor mounts too Jared? :)

[exproject]

200 or 140 should not make a difference. If your system is running right you'd never exceed the 140 anyway. So all the 200 gives you is a bigger margin for error.

[jnyost]

:lol this would have hugely dented my wallet as Jared said the only thing I could possibly reuse in my cooling system was the cap :rofl .. i have the 2.0 so when you talked about the 1.4 man i was crushed :bawl .. now its all good :D



Do I need the motor mounts too Jared? :)

Do them in the future. A 525 doesn't strain the mounts like a 540. I don't think your are bad yet.

[chiefwej]

The standard cap for my car is a 2.0 bar pressure cap. There are also 1.4 bar caps and 1.2 bar caps that will fit. But the system is designed to run at the higher pressure and higher temps. Those in cooler climates may want to try a lower pressure cap to reduce the operating pressure in an effort to increase the life of the radiator. Here in the desert with daytime highs well above 100 F. I dare not try it for fear my coolant will just spew all over the ground. Here is a source for the lower pressure caps. (http://oem.thepartsbin.com/parts/thepartsbin/wizard.jsp?year=1988&make=BM&model=325-I-001&category=All&part=Expansion%20Tank%20Cap&dp=false)

Note:
2.0 bar = 29 psi
1.4 bar = 20.3 psi
1.2 bar = 17.4 psi

Addition: I may be in error about the 1.2 bar fitting, but the 1.4 will definitely fit.

[eman67]

Ideally the cooling system overhaul happens every 60-80k miles .. (ask me how I know :stickoutt ).

Whats the maintenance history on your car? What was recently changed? Do you have cooling issues? Gauge malfunctions? Coolant low signs? leaks? no heat? smoke?

If you don't have any problems, you can breathe a sigh of relief (only brief) but read more posts/threads about the cooling system which is one of the weakest in our cars. You can get the list of parts, etc and get yourself ready to do overhaul around 75k miles :)

I have no problems, leaks, smoke (praise Jesus, knock on wood, salt over shoulder....) it is just the last thing I want to have my kids in the car on the highway and have the thing blow...

[jerkstore]

The standard cap for my car is a 2.0 bar pressure cap. There are also 1.4 bar caps and 1.2 bar caps that will fit. But the system is designed to run at the higher pressure and higher temps. Those in cooler climates may want to try a lower pressure cap to reduce the operating pressure in an effort to increase the life of the radiator. Here in the desert with daytime highs well above 100 c. I dare not try it for fear my coolant will just spew all over the ground. Here is a source for the lower pressure caps. (http://oem.thepartsbin.com/parts/thepartsbin/wizard.jsp?year=1988&make=BM&model=325-I-001&category=All&part=Expansion%20Tank%20Cap&dp=false)

Note:
2.0 bar = 29 psi
1.4 bar = 20.3 psi
1.2 bar = 17.4 psi

Addition: I may be in error about the 1.2 bar fitting, but the 1.4 will definitely fit.
100 C?? Thats pretty hot! How do you survive that?:eyecrazy

[chiefwej]

OOPS! Corrected. That would be 100 F. Water in my pool doesn't quite boil, it just seems that hot.

[gtxragtop]

29 PSI.... Wow. Never would have thought it was that high. No wonder the cooling system gives up. That is a lot of pressure.