Takashi
02-17-2009, 02:46 PM
My first oil change was at 29,000 km. The original scheduled oil change was at 24,000 km. At the end, the car asked for an oil service when I hit 28,000 km. '
As comparison, my old Japanese made car requires an oil change every 8,000 km. My gf's car requires an oil change every 6,000 km. The stupid dodge mini-van (old) requires an oil change every 5,000 km.
Most people who brought BMWs now were used to driving American or Japanese cars. This is where the stupid "I am going to change oil when the car hits 3,000 km or 5,000 km mark" comment came about. Oil change at 24,000 km mark are build into the design of the engines in BMWs and many other european cars. Changing oil prior to the recomended interval not only waste $$, bad for the environment, generate more waste (in labor, shop materials...etc), and it offers no benifit to the vehicle designed for city and/or controlled speed highway driving.
Many Saturday mechanics have a general knowledge on how to change oil on their cars; however, they lack the knowledge required to understand different grades of engine oil and how to determine when engine oil needs to be changed. The most common test is to look at the color of oil on the white paper towel. It should be noted that appearance and visual testing is very subjective and inferior to chemical testing. Once again, unles you have access to a oil testing laboratory, you will not be able to get the most accurate result.
BMWs4Ever
02-17-2009, 04:58 PM
I am not an expert when it comes to changing oil but here are my comments:
While I fully believe the car can go 12-15K miles without an oil change depending on your driving the oil will be in better or worse shape depending on if you drive highway versus city, short versus long trips, extreme temp hot/cold versus 72F driving. This is why it is generally recommended you change your oil at 5000 miles for regular oil. This is for normal oil while sythetics can go much greater distances then 5000 miles. It's your car. You can do what you want with it. If I leased my car I would not give a dam and would follow the dealers recommendation to the letter. As I said before changing it more frequently will not harm it but will definitely make it last longer. You could follow the dealer and change it every 12-15K miles and I have no doubt in my mind that the car will easily get to 100k or even 150K miles. After that it's anyone's guess. The only negative thing about changing your oil more frequently is yes you do harm the environment a little more since you are changing the oil a little more and you are also out of pocket more money. Oh and one other thing yes you are correct you pay for maintenance in the price of the car but that's based on the new maintenance plan you paid for when buying your car that BMW built into the price. NOT the older dealer maintence you paid for AFTER buying the car!
Here is an article by Mike Miller on BMW maintenance. He is a writer for BMW Bimmer mag. You can judge this as you want to:
Alternative BMW Maintenance Schedule
BMW’s Free Scheduled Maintenance program means that BMW will perform scheduled maintenance free of charge during the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty period.
Prior to the advent of BMW Free Scheduled Maintenance, approximate BMW maintenance recommendations were: automatic transmission fluid (ATF) and filter changes every 15,000 miles, manual gearbox and differential oil changes every 30,000 miles, annual brake fluid changes, and coolant changes every two years. Spark plugs, air filter, and fuel filters were typically replaced every 30,000 miles on most BMWs (this is a tune-up) except M cars up to 1995, which got new spark plugs and a valve adjustment every 15,000. Later advances in computer engine management and spark plug technology legitimately allow 60,000-mile spark plug life if not more.
Prior to Free Scheduled Maintenance, you couldn’t change engine oil often enough according to most dealerships. And when the car was in the shop it would often be due for this service or that inspection, all at the owner’s expense.
But once BMW began paying for scheduled maintenance, lo and behold the “schedule” was revised. Now, magically, the cars hardly need any maintenance at all! The 1,200-mile break-in service was done away with except for M cars. Engine oil suddenly lasts 15,000 miles (dealers are supposed to use BMW synthetic oil). Manual gearbox and differential oil? No worries there – now BMW says they NEVER need to be changed, it’s “lifetime fill.” Brake fluid and coolant service intervals were doubled with no change in the original BMW brake fluid and anti-freeze dealers are supposed to use.
So, is Free Scheduled Maintenance all about marketing and cost reduction – BMW’s costs? Draw your own conclusions. There is no doubt that many buyers incorrectly view BMWs as “high maintenance” cars. Nothing can address that more effectively than Free Scheduled Maintenance. But the operative word in the name is “scheduled.” In my opinion, extended service intervals and “lifetime fill” came very close on the heels of Free Scheduled Maintenance.
This is an alternative to BMW’s factory-recommended maintenance schedule. It is not, “Mike Miller’s maintenance schedule.” It is actually BMW’s maintenance schedule, more or less, which was used prior to Free Scheduled Maintenance. It also represents my opinion, based upon my experience and that of my readers, tech advisors, and professional BMW technicians both dealer and independent. I have prepared it because of the large number of readers asking for this information. The fact that my opinions may differ from those of others does not mean anyone is necessarily right or wrong. You will get a different answer from every person you ask about routine vehicle maintenance.
You should also know that in my work I have observed the most common reason for BMW drivability problems in contemporary cars with over 100,000 miles is that they need a tune up – spark plugs, air filter, and fuel filter.
Break-in Service for New Cars
Traditionally, BMW performed a break-in service at 1,200 miles on new cars, which included changing the engine oil and filter, manual gearbox oil or automatic transmission fluid, and differential oil. With the advent of Free Scheduled Maintenance, BMW stopped performing break-in services except on M cars.
I have seen that the engine and driveline oils in new modern BMWs are literally full of metal at 1,200 miles – as has always been the case with any new car. For this reason, I recommend a 1,200-mile break-in service.
Engine
Oil and Filter Intervals
BMW recommends their Castrol 5W-30 synthetic motor oil in all BMWs except contemporary M cars, for which they recommend their Castrol 10W-60 synthetic motor oil. The factory oil change interval is controlled electronically, but is presently about every 15,000 miles. If you are running BMW’s oil, I recommend an oil and filter change interval between 5,000 and 7,500 miles.
I use Red Line synthetic oil (www.redlineoil.com (http://www.redlineoil.com/)) in 5W-30, 10W-40, 15W-50, or 20W-50, depending on factory recommendation, ambient temperatures, and severity of service (track use, sustained high rpm use), with a drain interval – 7,500 to 18,000 miles depending on engine and severity of service. Under racing or track conditions I’d use a short interval; same for carbureted engines which tend to get some fuel into the oil. I would run the same intervals with very high end synthetics such as Amsoil and Lubrication Engineers Monolec Ultra.
All other commercially available synthetic oils, 5,000-7,500-mile drain intervals (Mobil-1 is good, we don’t know much about the factory BMW Castrol product).
Old fashioned petroleum oil, same viscosities, 3,000-to-5,000 mile drain intervals (I prefer Kendall)
The following information is courtesy of Motorwatch.com:
“Redline is Group V (polyol ester) based (POE or esters).
“Amsoil and Mobil-1 are Group IV (poly-alpha olefin) based (PAO or synthesized hydrocarbons SHC).
“Castrol Syntec and all the others calling themselves synthetic are Group III (hydrocracked slack wax).
“The petroleum motor alls are all mineral oil based and make up Group II.
”We really should group Red Line by itself, and put the others in separate categories (according to the groups) because their performance is so different.
”See motorwatch>AutoMotiveBible>Oil Change Intervals>oil classifications
http://www.motorwatch.com/images/oilclassifications.jpg (http://www.motorwatch.com/images/oilclassifications.jpg)
”AutoMotiveBible> Oil Change Intervals>oil change intervals
http://www.motorwatch.com/images/oil...intervals.jpg” (http://www.motorwatch.com/images/oilchangeintervals.jpg)
Original BMW filters are recommended for price and quality, or MANN, Mahle, Bosch, or Knecht filters
Spark Plugs
There is no reason to deviate from the factory-recommended Bosch or NGK spark plug specification, changed at 30,000-to-60,000-mile intervals, depending upon the car and severity of service. Basically, any BMW produced after 1993 can easily run 60,000 miles on a set of spark plugs.
The factory also has part numbers and applications for “100,000-mile spark plugs.” These are good too, and are capable of 100,000 miles of service assuming no other problems, which might cause them to foul during that time. However, in engines with spark plugs recessed into the middle of the cylinder head, oil can leak into the spark plug recesses past the valve cover gaskets. This is a hidden leak if the plugs are left in service for an extended period of time, because no one looks in there until they’re changing the plugs or chasing a problem. An oil leak in the spark plug recesses, left to fester, can cause ignition coil failure and even ECU failure. So, even if you want to leave the plugs in service, you should at least check the spark plug recesses for signs of oil leakage at least every 60,000 miles. And at the point you’re in there, you might as well replace the plugs. This is the issue with 100,000-mile plugs.
Moreover, while you may not have any problems running spark plugs for 100,000 miles in some BMWs, this does not mean the plugs will not be worn, or that that wear is not affecting engine performance. In other words, for optimum engine performance, most BMWs want spark plugs every 30,000-to-60,000 miles. M cars except the US specification S50/S52 powered E36 variants want plugs about every 15,000 miles.
Stay away from platinum plugs in BMWs. These don’t last as long as the regular Bosch copper or silver plugs and NGK plus, and have been known to fail in other ways. The regular old Bosch Platinum single electrode plug is, however, a very good choice for cars OTHER THAN BMWs.
Timing Belt, Tensioner Pulley, and Front Cam Seal
Replace every 5 years or 50,000 miles on vehicles so equipped, water pump replacement also recommended as preventative attendant service, but not required, 40,000 miles or four years on the E30 325iX (1988-1991)
Engine Drive Belts
Replace O.E. or O.E.M. BMW poly-ribbed serpentine belts every 60,000 miles
Replace O.E.M. Continental or Pirelli or original BMW V-belts every 30,000 miles
Replace “auto store” quality V-belts every 15,000 miles
Engine Coolant Service
I recommend changing engine coolant at two-year intervals, using only factory BMW anti-freeze mixed 50-50 with distilled water (reason – BMW anti-freeze is phosphate free, phosphates cause aluminum oxidation, which blocks cylinder head coolant passages and causes head gasket failure, others may claim to be “aluminum safe” or “phosphate free” – make your choice, but I’ve used BMW anti-freeze exclusively in many cars and have never had an aluminum oxidation or head gasket problem)
The factory coolant change interval used to be every two years. It is now every four years.
Water and Fuel Hoses
Replace water and fuel hoses every 150,000 miles, highly recommended use of O.E. or O.E.M. hoses only, along with the original hose clamps or Wurth/Zebra replacements. The original BMW hose clamps are far superior to anything you’ll find in a U.S. auto store.
Power Steering Fluid
Replace every 30,000 miles. This is a very neglected operating fluid. Almost all BMWs use automatic transmission fluid in the power steering system, except for some E32 7 Series cars, which use Pentosin hydraulic oil. Nothing will balls up the works faster than using one when you should be using the other. Check the sticker on the reservoir, check the owner’s manual, and if you are still confused, take the car to a pro or e-mail me.
It is not necessary to evacuate the entire power steering system. I just open a line down by the pump.
I have had great experience using Red Line Synthetic Power Steering Fluid – 184,000 miles and counting on the original rack and pinion unit and pump on the vehicle I used to test this product. But I would not use it in place of Pentosin hydraulic oil where that product is specified.
Manual Gearbox Oil
Only synthetic oil should be used in BMW manual gearboxes, drain interval 30,000 miles
Red Line products are highly recommended (www.redlineoil.com) (http://www.redlineoil.com)/). Questions or problems, e-mail me or dave@redlineoil.com (dave@redlineoil.com).
All the BMW gearbox rebuilders I know use Red Line MTL exclusively, regardless of model year or gearbox. The general consensus is, MTL is the better lubricant. However, the D4ATF product will require less shifter babying during cold operation. I use Red Line MTL in manual gearboxes except where I can’t trust the driver to shift properly when the gearbox is cold, in which case I use Red Line D4 ATF.
Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) and Filter
For older automatics using Red Line or other synthetic ATF, drain interval 30,000 miles. Old fashioned petroleum ATF, drain interval 15,000 miles
At various production dates in the mid-1990s, which vary according to model, BMW switched to their so-called “lifetime fill” ATF in automatic transmissions, as well as manual gearbox lubricant and differential oil. The reason for this, as far as anyone can tell, is marketing and not engineering – the idea being to foster the notion of the low-maintenance BMW.
There was no explanation of what “lifetime” meant, i.e., lifetime of the car, the component, or for that matter the driver. If it was the component, then obviously anything could be “lifetime fill”. The factory’s initial position is that these lubricants never need to be changed. Then, some time later, it came out that “lifetime” means 100,000 miles. Many dealerships are now recommending manual gearbox and differential oil changes be done at customer expense every 60,000 miles. Every independent BMW technician I know recommends a 30,000-mile interval, and many recommend Red Line synthetic oils (www.redlineoil.com) (http://www.redlineoil.com)/), but not for automatics with “lifetime fill.”
Older automatic transmission models, which do not have “lifetime fill” should have ATF and filter services every 15,000 miles if using petroleum ATF; every 30,000 miles with synthetic.
However, the modern automatic transmissions are different. No one knows exactly what BMW’s proprietary ATF is, so no one knows if there are viable alternatives. We do know that BMW dealerships charge about $500 for an ATF and filter service, due to the price of the ATF. And that’s assuming you can get them to do the job, which is not often the case.
Under no circumstances would I recommend draining any previously unmaintained automatic transmission with much more than 50,000 miles. I have seen it happen too many times, where a well-meaning owner or technician performs an ATF and filter service on a neglected but well-shifting automatic, and then all of the sudden it starts slipping. I can’t explain it, but my feeling is the fresh ATF flushes a bit of sludge from a place where it was doing no harm to a place where it does do harm. Overfilling, underfilling, and cleanliness are also issues in ATF and filter servicing, but these should not be problematic for a professional BMW technician, dealer or independent.
BMW has “backed off” their lifetime fill mantra for automatic transmissions, currently recommending an ATF and filter change every 100,000 miles.
My inclination is to tell people to change “lifetime” ATF and filter every 30,000 miles. However the fact is, I've seen BMW automatic transmissions that were maintained break anyway. In that event, say it happens at 90,000 miles, you would like to have that $1,500 you spent on ATF and filter changes to put toward your new automatic transmission. And if I told you to spend it on maintenance you’re probably not going to be very happy with me. On the other hand, I have seen maintained automatics last 200,000 miles. I have also seen unmaintained automatics last 200,000 miles, although both are very rare. There's just no predicting with these transmissions. When you choose to buy an automatic transmission, you also buy into the vagaries of the darn things, which is one reason technicians hate them.
Whether to maintain a modern BMW automatic is up to you. I am washing my hands of automatic transmissions – I don’t like them, I don’t buy them, and I don’t mess around with them under the car.
Air Filter
Stock paper element, check every 15,000 miles, tap out dirt, replace if necessary, standard interval 30,000 miles, use Original BMW filters or aftermarket filters such as Knecht, MANN, Mahle, or Bosch
K&N oiled cotton gauze filters, clean every 15,000 to 30,000 miles depending on condition, use only K&N approved cleaner and oil, and follow K&N cleaning procedures
Fuel Filter
Replace every 30,000 miles, also replace if fuel pump is replaced, use original BMW filters or Bosch, Knecht, MANN, or Mahle
Brake Fluid
Recommend one-year brake fluid changes, or prior to each driving school or track event. BMW now recommends two-year brake fluid changes, but used to recommend a one-year interval.
Recommend ATE SL brake fluid for normal street use, ATE Type 200 or Pentosin Racing Brake Fluid for track work or very high performance use
© 2002 Mike Miller
Hope this helps..............Again I would not think twice about following the dealers recommendations if I was getting rid of the car at 100K. However, I keep my cars much longer. I have personally driven and maintained my cars for over 25 years since I was 16 and got my first used car in 1983. It was a 76 Mercury Marquis that I was given to drive to high school in the early 80s The car went over 350,000 miles not km before I got rid of it (rusted away :-)) My old 92 Jetta went over 500,000km before I had problems and my current Passat has over 200,000 km with zero problems. I bought my BMW new and plan to keep it just as long so you be the judge about whose maintenence plan you want to follow!
mryakan
02-17-2009, 10:38 PM
Maintenance schedules will always be a contentious issue, but IMO it is all about where your comfort zone is. Some may do no maintenance and don't care, others are very conservative and will skip the manufacturer recommendation and go with the time tested extensive maintenance schedules such as the one quoted above, while many just go with the manufacturer recommendation, maybe a sort of middle ground. There have been many advances in manufacturing processes, fluids quality and endurance and assembly tolerances. In the absence of consistent wide scale long term statistical data tracking mfg recommended maintenance schedules vs relevant issue, there is no hard fact to back any side of this debate. So it comes back to your comfort zone and how much you are willing to spend now vs risk taken with future problems, and of course how long you plan to keep the car.
Just so I don't sound like going on a rant, I will say that I am sort of a mifddle ground person in most things in life including vehicle maintenance, thus I stick with the manufacturer recommendations. I did that with my e36 and after more than 10 years of ownership, I sold the car with nearly no issue during those 10 years aside from the usual wear and tear items, such as brakes, alternator, batteries, hoses, and some underbody rust. No powertrain issues whatsoever. I drove it hard and changed oil when the car demanded it, roughly every 9K miles. Sold it with the original clutch and even radiator.
Take your pick: Pay me now or pay me later, how much when is up to you.
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.