328i do I rotate the tires or not?

[Plantman]

We have a 2007 328 i and am a bit confused.

The service manager at the dealership tells me NOT to rotate the run flat tires and that they will last about 25k miles.

The service writer tells me that they are supposed to be rotated every 10k miles that the service manager was incorrect.

I can't find anything in the manual.

Any ideas?

Thanks

[Kevlar]

Look and see if the tires front/rear are the same size... if they are, you can rotate them... if they are not, then you can't. I can't remember if the 07 328i comes with matching tires on all four corners... me thinks not though.

[Plantman]

Look and see if the tires front/rear are the same size... if they are, you can rotate them... if they are not, then you can't. I can't remember if the 97 328i comes with matching tires on all four corners... me thinks not though.


I am pretty sure they are, but will check tomorrow to be sure.

Thanks!

[jjoel]

i think bmw does not recommend rotating tires... i can't remember where i heard that exactly

[ohnoes]

I wouldn't rotate due to the generally different wear pattern on the rear tires, even if the tires are all the same size. The rear tires tend to cup a little bit and this will lead to vibration in the front end, which is obviously not desirable.

[RabidChimp]

BMW does not recommend to rotate the tires any vehicles.

[E36BMW3series]

I believe they are the same size front/rear on the series cars, but I'm not sure about the e9X series.

BMW does not recommend rotating them; however, if it were my car I would rotate them every 3-5k miles to make sure that they are all wearing the same and there isn't any time for any of the tires to wear significantly different than the others. I'm kinda a cheap ass, so that's just me. I have an M3 and they are staggered, so this is not an option for me.

[nickdrivesm3]

90% of the BMWs now a days have staggered wheels/tires. Rotating is out of the question unless you want you make the car oversteer rather than understeer.

[shamulater]

This subject sparked my curiousity a few years back....BMW does not recommend rotation for the simple reason that they feel it could have a negative impact on overall handling performance and characteristics due to tire wear. Rotate tires and you will notice some probably very slight differences in most cases. The downside is that tire life is decreased significantly. Take your pick..predictable handling characteristics or extended tire life.

[mryakan]

I wouldn't rotate due to the generally different wear pattern on the rear tires, even if the tires are all the same size. The rear tires tend to cup a little bit and this will lead to vibration in the front end, which is obviously not desirable.
+1 this is exactly why BMW doesn't recommend rotating them and what the dealer confirmed to me last time I asked about this. That being said, if you have the sports package, then you can't do a front to rear rotation since they are different sizes (except the 323 standard sport package in Canada).

Also there is a cost to rotation (assuming you don't do it yourself and the e90 sure doesn't come equipped with anything to help you in that matter), which I always wondered if combined with the inconvenience of doing the rotation at periodic intervals would in fact offset any savings in extending the life of the tires. If you switch from summer to winter tires and back, then you can do the rotation practically for free at that time which you can try out at least once and see if you experience any downsides. I used to do so on my e36 and sometimes experienced annoying vibration. I have decided not to do that on my e90.

[adam1979]

+1 this is exactly why BMW doesn't recommend rotating them and what the dealer confirmed to me last time I asked about this. That being said, if you have the sports package, then you can't do a front to rear rotation since they are different sizes (except the 323 standard sport package in Canada).

Also there is a cost to rotation (assuming you don't do it yourself and the e90 sure doesn't come equipped with anything to help you in that matter), which I always wondered if combined with the inconvenience of doing the rotation at periodic intervals would in fact offset any savings in extending the life of the tires. If you switch from summer to winter tires and back, then you can do the rotation practically for free at that time which you can try out at least once and see if you experience any downsides. I used to do so on my e36 and sometimes experienced annoying vibration. I have decided not to do that on my e90.

No need to call dealers to confirm, BMW discusses it in the owner's manual. For an E39, it is on page 107 under the heading "Interaxle tire changes." It basically says everything that Mryakan and Ohnoes have already said, while adding that if you really feel compelled to do this, you need to do it every 3000 miles (max) and at least leave tires on the same side of the vehicle. And BMW reminds you that braking response and traction may be adversely affected.

[mryakan]

No need to call dealers to confirm, BMW discusses it in the owner's manual. For an E39, it is on page 107 under the heading "Interaxle tire changes." It basically says everything that Mryakan and Ohnoes have already said, while adding that if you really feel compelled to do this, you need to do it every 3000 miles (max) and at least leave tires on the same side of the vehicle. And BMW reminds you that braking response and traction may be adversely affected.
Yeah, I didn't call. In my case, I was there and I was getting my snow tires get put back on. As I said with my e36 they always got rotated when they got put back on (at my request usually), but this time I forgot to mention it and they did not do it so I asked. I knew the answer but it was one of those things where you need the reassurance, esp. that the rears had much more wear than the fronts thus making me give it a second thought. In fact the dealer mentioned a few people came back after they had asked to rotate them anyway and asked to put them back due to vibration/noise.

[Plantman]

Just got off the phone with the dealer.

They say BMW "recommends" rotating,balancing and a 4 wheel alignment to the tune of 228.00 plus tax.

I asked why it is not in the manual and he repeated BMW "recommends" it to make the tires last longer.

Something fishy there?

[adam1979]

I missed the part of the OP's post mentioning that he couldn't find it in the owner's manual. I actually downloaded the E90 manual trying to be a smart ass and I couldn't find it either. Odd that they seem to have removed that section.

[mryakan]

Just got off the phone with the dealer.

They say BMW "recommends" rotating,balancing and a 4 wheel alignment to the tune of 228.00 plus tax.

I asked why it is not in the manual and he repeated BMW "recommends" it to make the tires last longer.

Something fishy there?
I think he may have confused his boss for BMW :rolleyes. When was the last time you had the alignment done btw, he may be right on that one, they do recommend it once a year.

[samger2]

I think what's fishy is that the dealer doesn't know the answer so they're making stuff up.

I've been in tire sales for about 8 years now and I've always recommended rotating tires unless of course you have a staggered set up. Personally I think all the stuff about BMW replacing Bridgestone tires is partially mumbo jumbo...not completely...but partially.

If you don't check your air pressure, and you don't rotate your tires, you WILL have uneven wear...plain and simple...if you don't keep up on the maintenance on your tires you WILL have tire problems.

[mryakan]

I think what's fishy is that the dealer doesn't know the answer so they're making stuff up.

I've been in tire sales for about 8 years now and I've always recommended rotating tires unless of course you have a staggered set up. Personally I think all the stuff about BMW replacing Bridgestone tires is partially mumbo jumbo...not completely...but partially.

If you don't check your air pressure, and you don't rotate your tires, you WILL have uneven wear...plain and simple...if you don't keep up on the maintenance on your tires you WILL have tire problems.
In your experience, have you had anyone complain after having their tires rotated?

[adam1979]

Just got off the phone with the dealer.

They say BMW "recommends" rotating,balancing and a 4 wheel alignment to the tune of 228.00 plus tax.

I asked why it is not in the manual and he repeated BMW "recommends" it to make the tires last longer.

Something fishy there?

This definitely sounds fishy. How many miles are on the car? I think of an alignment as something you would check during 30 and 60k service intervals, or when you notice something strange in how the car drives. As Mryakan points out, the cost and inconvenience of tire rotation alone is probably not worth it. Add in the alignment, and they want a $228 service to squeeze a few thousand more miles out of the tires? Even BMW basically states in my owner's manual that it is probably not going to be worth it. Specifically, the text is:
"When considering the potential economic benefits of interaxle tire rotation, you must decide whether the expense of having the tires rotated is likely to be amortized during the anticipated extension in tire life. We recommend that you discuss the matter with your BMW Retailer."

The big reason for the difference in wear patterns and why BMW has recommended against tire rotation in the past is that, on the E39 sport package at least, there is a decent amount of negative camber on the rear wheels. This results in the inside of the tire wearing faster than the outside, nevermind compared to the front tires. I believe this is the case on the E46 sport package as well. To offset this wear pattern through tire rotation, you would have to rotate tires constantly. I know nothing of the rear suspension setup on the E90 or why this language would have been removed from your owner's manual. At the very least, I would not let the dealer talk you into alignments just for the sake of prolonging tire life. A bad alignment will certainly compromise tire life, but a 4 wheel alignment should not be something you have to do several times per year.

[mryakan]

This definitely sounds fishy. How many miles are on the car? I think of an alignment as something you would check during 30 and 60k service intervals, or when you notice something strange in how the car drives.
Sounds reasonable, although on the e9x you don't have regular service intervals (CBS doesn't bundle services, at least not on pre-MY09), but usually you are going in at least once a year to get your oil service.
You may also want to check for abnormal wear signs on your tires. Many times alignment issues cannot be detected by mere mortals and can cause premature/uneven tire wear. But if your tire lasts 30K miles and you can't notice any driving irregularities, then yeah no need to align earlier. People who drive on bad roads such as the ones here may want to get it checked more often though.
I had to do mine 3 times so far, all within the space of 6 months, but that was more bad luck than anything (granted the bad roads contributed a lot). In all instances I could notice the steering wheel was off and the car was veering off to one side on even roads. YMMV.

[samger2]

In your experience, have you had anyone complain after having their tires rotated?

In my past experience I would say that 75% of the cars that came in with cupped tires were due to the fact that they were never rotated and tire pressures rarely checked. The rest was a combination of alignment and/or suspension issues.

With BMW it's just always been the case that we've never recommended rotation, so I've never had a chance to see the cupping issue go away.

BMW (at least our dealer) tends to temporarily fix problems or put them on hold rather than come up with a permanent fix. For instance I can't tell you the number of tires we've put on under "warranty" or "good will" that were sitting at 15psi for 15k miles...I mean the cars come in with the issue of "loud road noise" and the TPM light is on. Instead of educating the customer on one of the major reasons their tires aren't wearing, we slap two new tires on at no cost to them and send them on their way...I FREQUENTLY see repeat customers coming back and back for 2 and 3 pairs of free tires...and each time the pressure was way off and there was no effort by any means to keep up the maintenance.

Anyway, sorry to get off on a tangent, but there's just so much blame on tire or BMW engineering when much of the blame should be on simple vehicle and tire maintenance.

[Plantman]

I do not feel the car needs any alignment, it runs straight as an arrow.

I have always rotated my tires on other cars to maximize the life span with good results.

My question stems from the run flats, and I honestly do not see why you would not rotate them, front to back if they are the same size.

Peculiar that I cannot get the same answer from anyone at the dealer.

??????????????????????????????

[samger2]

I work for a dealer and I've never gotten a straight answer either...so I always go with what my experience tells me. My experience tells me that rotating your tires WILL in fact extend the life of them. IMO runflat or non runflat you still have tires that are sitting under the weight of your engine...rotating those out from under that weight and pressure helps to distribute the wear more evenly across all 4 tires.

You've had good experiences rotating your tires as have I...so I see no reason...ESPECIALLY when the dealer can't give you a straight answer...why you shouldn't rotate your tires on your BMW without positive results as well.

Let me also add that as was mentioned above...your car could be out of alignment without you even knowing...many times an alignment will not cause a pull one way or another...it certainly COULD...but many times doesn't. A pull is mostly caused by a bad tire...also known as a "radial pull"...so just because your car is driving straight doesn't mean there isn't an alignment issue.

[Critter7r]

The reason you can't get a straight answer from the dealer is because they don't want to tell you that BMW specifically says they recommend against rotating.

As Adam1979 states, in the manual, it states "When considering the potential economic benefits of interaxle tire rotation, you must decide whether the expense of having the tires rotated is likely to be amortized during the anticipated extension in tire life. We recommend that you discuss the matter with your BMW Retailer."

Personally, I don't agree with them.

BMW's stance is that the downside of rotating the tires is that you could potentially create a vibration by taking the tires from the rear and putting them on the front, where they will begin to wear in a different pattern. My thinking is that if they vibrate just because they're spinning at a different contact angle, then there's something inherently wrong with that scenario. So rotating them allows the to wear themselves smooth again. It probably doesn't really do anything to extend the life of the tire, it just makes it so that you replace the rears twice instead of all 4 tires at once. (sort of)

[mryakan]

Let me throw a monkey wrench in here. What about winter tires?
The recommendation I got from the dealer and many on the tire forum (and I think you gave me the same recommendation samger2) is to keep the ones with the higher tread on the front (makes sense for extra steering stability and to be honest my experience so far is that is an excellent recommendation). If that is a good recommendation, then right there you cannot rotate winter tires on an RWD car since most definitely the rears will have more wear on them. What do you think?

[Jhunter]

BMW recommends against rotating for the reasons stated although I think this is overblown in day to day driving.

Most dealers recommend rotating because they get paid to do it.

The only time I ever rotated was when I had a lot of noise from cupping but still had significant tread life remaining.

Most BMWs are on three year leases. In most cases you will replace the tires once during a three year lease whether you rotate or not. So why pay for it if you are in this situation?

[mryakan]

Most BMWs are on three year leases. In most cases you will replace the tires once during a three year lease whether you rotate or not. So why pay for it if you are in this situation?
You highlight a very good point here for people leasing. There is a caveat though, those of us who switch tires in the winter/spring can get the rotation for free, so the dilemma exists whether to rotate or not. I would have wished to not have to replace at least 2 of my winter tires before my lease is up, but for the reasons I stated above I decided not to rotate them and might as well have to replace 2 in the last year of ownership :(. This of course is a moot point when you have staggered tires such as my summers.

[samger2]

Let me throw a monkey wrench in here. What about winter tires?
The recommendation I got from the dealer and many on the tire forum (and I think you gave me the same recommendation samger2) is to keep the ones with the higher tread on the front (makes sense for extra steering stability and to be honest my experience so far is that is an excellent recommendation). If that is a good recommendation, then right there you cannot rotate winter tires on an RWD car since most definitely the rears will have more wear on them. What do you think?

Quite honestly my opinion (I hope it's not different than before :confused) is to have the tires with more tread on the rear. The reason I say this is because you have the main portion of the weight of your vehicle on the front due to the engine. This extra weight could aid in keeping the tires planted more firmly in suspect situations. Also, imagine you run into a situation that requires fast and hard braking in a slippery situation...you don't want your rear fishtailing out and putting you into a tailspin toward oncoming traffic...and that is potentially what could happen if you have more tread up front....your front tires do their job of stopping you, but the rears break traction and put you sideways.

And as far as rotating or not rotating snows...IMO just always make sure you have your best tread on the rear each season and replace them as they come due.

[shifterkart33]

Of course BMW recommends not rotating the tires.

Speaking from experience: if all 4 tires and wheels are the same size and you want to maximize their life, then rotate them. I'm a pretty hardcore driver and I never noticed any difference when rotating tires on the old e46. Now that I have the same size aftermarket tires and wheels (with sport package), I will rotate the tires.

[mryakan]

Quite honestly my opinion (I hope it's not different than before :confused) is to have the tires with more tread on the rear. The reason I say this is because you have the main portion of the weight of your vehicle on the front due to the engine. This extra weight could aid in keeping the tires planted more firmly in suspect situations. Also, imagine you run into a situation that requires fast and hard braking in a slippery situation...you don't want your rear fishtailing out and putting you into a tailspin toward oncoming traffic...and that is potentially what could happen if you have more tread up front....your front tires do their job of stopping you, but the rears break traction and put you sideways.

And as far as rotating or not rotating snows...IMO just always make sure you have your best tread on the rear each season and replace them as they come due.
Sorry it was Critter, not you, who recommended the opposite:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1120752

[006330i006]

Bridgestone engineers recommend rotating staggered tires SIDE to SIDE every 5k miles to prevent "heel & toe effect", what a lot us call "feathering" which causes the noise which a lot of us complain about. I replaced the noisy Potenzas on my car at 16,000, (with BMW picking up 1/2 of the tab) with Michelin PS2 RFTs. These tires handle better, ride softer, and are much quieter than the Potenzas. And, yes, I am rotating them side to side every 5k miles w/ xlnt results. Along as your tires are not unidirectional, side to side rotation may be the way to go for some of you. BTW - unidirectional tires will have a large arrow on the sidewall indicating the direction they are to be turning.

[mryakan]

Bridgestone engineers recommend rotating staggered tires SIDE to SIDE every 5k miles to prevent "heel & toe effect", what a lot us call "feathering" which causes the noise which a lot of us complain about. I replaced the noisy Potenzas on my car at 16,000, (with BMW picking up 1/2 of the tab) with Michelin PS2 RFTs. These tires handle better, ride softer, and are much quieter than the Potenzas. And, yes, I am rotating them side to side every 5k miles w/ xlnt results. Along as your tires are not unidirectional, side to side rotation may be the way to go for some of you. BTW - unidirectional tires will have a large arrow on the sidewall indicating the direction they are to be turning.
I am thinking of doing that when I put my Potenzas back on, but my SA was puzzled when I told him exactly what you wrote. He said we could try it though. Hopefully I don't forget, now where did I put that Alzheimer's medicine! :help

[AllenBeasley]

We have a 2007 328 i and am a bit confused.

The service manager at the dealership tells me NOT to rotate the run flat tires and that they will last about 25k miles.

The service writer tells me that they are supposed to be rotated every 10k miles that the service manager was incorrect.

I can't find anything in the manual.

Any ideas?

Thanks

You should rotate the tires on e90 at least once as year. They feather really bad, which leads to loud road noise and premature wear of the tires.

Feather - when you run a finger one way down the tread of the tire and the the other way... one way(usually opposite of rolling direction) feels more "ripped".

[Frank ZZR]

I'm rotating my tires twice a year on my 328 sport package. In the winter I do a full rotation on my winter tires as they are all the same size. In summer I rotate my Potenzas side to side because of the staggered set up. I have been getting perfect even wear on all four tires both winters and summers. Little or no feathering which disappears a short time after rotation. To me, common sense says rotate tires for longer life. I do mine myself in 20 minutes so there is no cost.

[Critter7r]

Even if rotating them doesn't extend the life (and I could argue both sides of that with myself for an hour), it does make them stay quieter.

[Titanium09]

...you have the main portion of the weight of your vehicle on the front due to the engine.

The 328i has 50/50 weight distribution!

[CHCcubs]

The 328i has 50/50 weight distribution!

That was the reasoning I was given when I bought my car as to why BMW does not recommend tire rotations.

[LovinMyBimmer]

you guys are cofusing me! i have e90 330i sedan and know i cant fully rotate because the tires are staggered, but i was thinking of rotating side to side..the dealer installed new bridgestone potenza RFTs when i bought it used a few months ago. since then, i have put on about 7k miles and was planning on rotating at 10k. the tires dont appear to be unidirectional, can i rotate side to side or not?

[mryakan]

That was the reasoning I was given when I bought my car as to why BMW does not recommend tire rotations.
That is a BS reason to be honest. Each tire has different forces being applied on it at different sections of the tire based on where it is on the car, the weight distribution is a non issue. There are many other reason why they do not recommend it and I suspect the bottom line is that they see too many people complaining after a rotation that they started recommending against it.

[mryakan]

you guys are cofusing me! i have e90 330i sedan and know i cant fully rotate because the tires are staggered, but i was thinking of rotating side to side..the dealer installed new bridgestone potenza RFTs when i bought it used a few months ago. since then, i have put on about 7k miles and was planning on rotating at 10k. the tires dont appear to be unidirectional, can i rotate side to side or not?
Yes you can if they are not directional, but the only thing you are achieving is reversing the direction of rotation of the tire. It may help with feathering and road noise, and maybe if you only take right hand corners hard, then it may help even out the wear a bit, but it is all debatable.

[Joeb427]

From another BMW forum.


"The tire manufacturer does not set the suspension camber or know anything about the weight of the vehicle, balance, or performance characteristics. They don't specify the tire inflation pressure or capacities, the car manufacturer does.

Your tires (http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AB2&url=index.jsp) need to 'wear-in' to the car, by rotating them it's like wearing shoes on the wrong feet. You compromise handling and traction until the tires (http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AB2&url=index.jsp) have worn in again. On a more pedestrian car with less-aggressive camber this doesn't matter as much. Do as you wish but know that BMW does specifically recommend against tire rotation."

[CHCcubs]

That is a BS reason to be honest. Each tire has different forces being applied on it at different sections of the tire based on where it is on the car, the weight distribution is a non issue. There are many other reason why they do not recommend it and I suspect the bottom line is that they see too many people complaining after a rotation that they started recommending against it.

I agree with you, I was just stating what they told me.

[Beer Goggles]

You rotate front to back and not side to side. Most tires are directional so you can't swap sides without removing the tire.

Also you can't do it with staggered setups at all, which would be why you can recommend "not" doing it.

And the front tires "cup" and feather so putting them in the back would be better. Camber won't cause that in the rear as much, and most people who have had their cars for 15-20K on the same tires probably hear that "wobble" and feathering already.

If I had all the same tires I'd move them front to back.

[mryakan]

You rotate front to back and not side to side. Most tires are directional so you can't swap sides without removing the tire.

Also you can't do it with staggered setups at all, which would be why you can recommend "not" doing it.

And the front tires "cup" and feather so putting them in the back would be better. Camber won't cause that in the rear as much, and most people who have had their cars for 15-20K on the same tires probably hear that "wobble" and feathering already.

If I had all the same tires I'd move them front to back.
Actually the Bridgestone Potenze OEM tires are not directional and can be rotated side to side. There was even a post a while back where an owner was specifically told by Bridgestone to rotate his staggered tires side to side to help with the feathering/noise issue. I will post a link when I find that post.

EDIT: Here is the post:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=988977

[Beer Goggles]

Actually the Bridgestone Potenze OEM tires are not directional and can be rotated side to side. There was even a post a while back where an owner was specifically told by Bridgestone to rotate his staggered tires side to side to help with the feathering/noise issue. I will post a link when I find that post.

EDIT: Here is the post:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=988977

That won't help feathering at all, if you go left to right the inside of the tire is still on the inside where the feathering occurs. I went through all this feathering BS with my Z, tire design and an aggressive camber/and bump steer geometry cause that.

[mryakan]

That won't help feathering at all, if you go left to right the inside of the tire is still on the inside where the feathering occurs. I went through all this feathering BS with my Z, tire design and an aggressive camber/and bump steer geometry cause that.
Well according to Bridgestone, reversing the direction of rotation (which you achieve by rotating side to side), reverse/reduces the effects of feathering (noise!) if done regularly. Read their reply in the post linked above. I am not saying it works, I haven't tried it, I am saying this is what the tire manufacturer says.

[Beer Goggles]

Well according to Bridgestone, reversing the direction of rotation (which you achieve by rotating side to side), reverse/reduces the effects of feathering (noise!) if done regularly. Read their reply in the post linked above. I am not saying it works, I haven't tried it, I am saying this is what the tire manufacturer says.

I don't really always believe the manufacturer...from experience. Z owners were initially told it wasn't a problem...then it was. And they blamed tires first, and eventually reset all camber and came out with new tires. They bought a front set for me.

Cupping is little patches of uneven wear, reversing isn't going to take that pattern out. In fact, the cause of most tire issues is that people drive straight 90% of the time. A car setup to handle is meant to actually use that camber gain to get better traction, which will help wear evenly.

Rear tires normally don't cup/feather like the front.

[acmaui]

Right out of college I was a service manager for a large tire sales and service company. The place I worked had 16 full service bays and sold thousands of tires every month. I gave recommendation and was the expert to the customers. Truth is I didn't know shit and espoused the company line. Some shit never changes. Thank god I finally found something I did know about to make a living.