Drove an M5 yesterday, my thoughts.

[exproject]

Yesterday, I got the chance to drive a very nice M5. I was just riding along at first, coming back from Sonic when he pulled over suddenly and said, "Here, switch seats." So we did, I got in the drivers seat (first thing I noticed was I needed to move the seat back :stickoutt) and knew this was gonna be awesome. It already had sport mode turned on, and it was far more twitchy than my 540. Slightest touch of the throttle gave a throaty response. I wasn't used to the drive by wire sensitivity. After a shaky start we get onto an empty road. I braked to 0, and then took off, not too hard, no launch, gotta have some respect when its not my car. And proceed to wind it out to around 6500 through the first 3 gears. It just kept pulling til I let off. I hit the hooks and proceed to cruise til we got back to my place. Once we do, I get back into my familiar 540 to follow him to our destination, and what should happen? I nearly stall our cause I was thinking of the M5s responsiveness.

The M5, from a 540i owners view.

All you people who say the 540 only a little bit less than the M5 are kidding yourselves. The car is that much better in every category with the exception of say maintenance costs and fuel consumption. The comfort sport seats that the M5 has are awesome, and the extended leather really makes the interior a pleasant place to be. The sport steering wheel with the servotronic steering beats the hell out of the 4 spoke boat wheel. Everything in the interior is just a step up.

The power: Here's where all the other reviews I've heard said that they weren't impressed. I've no doubt that if my 540 and the M5 launched both perfectly, we'd be neck and neck....til the end of first gear. That extra 100 hp, extra 1000 rpms, extra half liter and 3.15 diff make all the difference in the world. And keep in mind, I wasn't even driving it at 10/10ths and this was all so apparent. Later on that day I did a pull in my 540 to 130 and this just made it all the more obvious. The S62 is definitely a powerhouse.

Finally, the verdict: Would I sell my 540 and buy one? It has a serious performance advantage over my 540, I wouldn't have to do any mods to it how I want to my 540 and I get the badge. But the answer is no. The difference between the two cars is substantial, but not enough to make me sell my car and go through all that hassle to get into one. I mean, I already have a 4 and half liter V8 that puts out plenty of power and torque. Were I driving a 525, 28, or 30, then yes. The difference there would be large enough to make me sell and go to an M5. (I have driven a 528, so I do have some basis for a comparison.)

Just thought I'd share my thoughts, cause I was curious when I always hear people say M5s and 540s aren't that different. They're quite a bit different.

Cliffs: Drove an M5, compared it to my 540, the difference is bigger than most 540 owners want to admit.

[djaxis]

Nice review. Would love to have one of those one of these days

[Captain Morgan]

what about suspension, any noticable difference? Im not familiar with exactly how the M5 differs from the 540 sport other than sway bars, but could you feel any major difference in road matters, either on turns or just general ride & comfort?

[exproject]

The road we were on had only two turns, and I wasn't gonna go hurling a car that wasn't mine through them.

Plus, wouldn't be a fair comparison seeing as it has a Dinan suspension, versus my stock sport suspension. Though I do like how it's lowered. Makes me want to buy a suspension.

[Busta]

Nice write-up. Thanks for sharing.

[Payam972]

razas car im assuming. its a beast

[4500 RPM]

Nice review. I've driven both and completely agree. The 540 isn't even 8/10th of an M5.

[Payam972]

Nice review. I've driven both and completely agree. The 540 isn't even 8/10th of an M5.

+1

when i had my 540i/6 a few m5 owners all told me the same thing. the difference is night and day.

i realized it after i got one. its a whole different beast.

[exproject]

Yeah it was razas car. Pretty fun ride.

[Seraph]

Yeah... I don't like to admit it, but the difference from 540 to M5 is just amazing. I remember before I had played in a M5 I was always like I dunno it can't be that big of a difference. Then I got into one and didn't want to go back to what seemed like an underpowered car :tongue.

[razahyde]

was this before or after you rocked my car like the titanic?

[curt2128]

Did raza pay you to give that review....? I have driven a 540i and it wasn’t that fun I mean the power was nice... but the front end was way too heavy. I didn’t like how I had to take the turns slow in the 540i compared to my 528i to me if you’re looking for performance buy a car that is meant for that.... we all lose sight of what our cars were meant to be luxury sport sedan.

[exproject]

was this before or after you rocked my car like the titanic?

That was included in the "After a shaky start." Heh. F'n twitchy man.


Did raza pay you to give that review....? I have driven a 540i and it wasn’t that fun I mean the power was nice... but the front end was way too heavy. I didn’t like how I had to take the turns slow in the 540i compared to my 528i to me if you’re looking for performance buy a car that is meant for that.... we all lose sight of what our cars were meant to be luxury sport sedan.
Today 01:39 AM

No, in fact I'll actually be paying him money to detail my car.

Way too heavy? Meh, it doesn't effect it too much. For that big of an engine, it doesnt really plow. And if it does, you turn out a bit, fling it back and feed in some power to get the other end sliding. And I don't think we lose sight of what it's supposed to be at all. BMW tried to put the two together as best they could and they did a pretty good job. What you come out with is a car that is docile enough to be a DD for grandma or your wife and can perform well enough to satisfy 70% of drivers who like to drive probably.

[VLee]

nice review, I agree with you 100%

well, your discussion with curt...it's not really about which can out handle the other, it's really depends on where.
if you're on a track, for sure M5 will kick ass(es?)
and I think curt was talking about canyons...in that case...
E39 generally are too fat for tight corners...well maybe, just maybe, lighter 5s will do a little better than heavier 5s.
but for sure E39 will get their asses handed to lighter roasters.

so in conclusion, M5 is really good under most circumstances....Period...

[exproject]

nice review, I agree with you 100%

well, your discussion with curt...it's not really about which can out handle the other, it's really depends on where.
if you're on a track, for sure M5 will kick ass(es?)
and I think curt was talking about canyons...in that case...
E39 generally are too fat for tight corners...well maybe, just maybe, lighter 5s will do a little better than heavier 5s.
but for sure E39 will get their asses handed to lighter roasters.

so in conclusion, M5 is really good under most circumstances....Period...

Oh I know, I'm just saying I think the engineers did pretty good given the criteria they had to meet for it being the 5 series.

[sleepy740]

awesome write up.

i agree with you 100%, only i drove a 540i automatic that i sold from my dealership almost two years ago.

the comfort seats are way more comfortable than the sport seats, but the sport seats look way better than the comfort seats (a trade off im happy to have made.).

[exproject]

Mightve missed what I was getting at. The M5 has kind of its own seat. Not really sure exactly what its called. It's like the comfort seat...but it has serious side bolsters too.

[sleepy740]

Mightve missed what I was getting at. The M5 has kind of its own seat. Not really sure exactly what its called. It's like the comfort seat...but it has serious side bolsters too.

no, i know what youre talking about.

here are the m5 comfort seats.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/sleepyatcsu/lkjh.jpg

here are my m5 sport seats.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/sleepyatcsu/Maggie041.jpg

comfort seats didnt have two-tone, but the sport seats were either single color, or two toned.

wow, maggie needs a detail, bad.

:(

[Marven]

I'm not surprised with the positive review. However here in Canada the ///M5 would have cost almost 10K more not to mention the dreaded carbon issue. Since I am new to 540's I am not clear that they have same issue but it just wasnt worth the extra coin on 2000-2001 MY. I love the look of the M5 so I comprised and got the 540 MSport. Thus far I am satisfied..The M5 is still a BEAST though...My next vehicle will be a M though! The E60 M5 or E92 M3!

M.

[racerx0911]

nice write up.

[540IForMe]

Cool. So the difference is there just like it should. It wasn't a big enough difference to make you want to buy one.

But, was it big enough to swell your head and talk down to us lowly non-M5ers?

[exproject]

Cool. So the difference is there just like it should. It wasn't a big enough difference to make you want to buy one.

But, was it big enough to swell your head and talk down to us lowly non-M5ers?

I can see what they're talking about now, and truth be told it is an awesome package. Might not need as much talking down as there is.

[Payam972]

no, i know what youre talking about.

here are the m5 comfort seats.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/sleepyatcsu/lkjh.jpg

here are my m5 sport seats.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/sleepyatcsu/Maggie041.jpg

comfort seats didnt have two-tone, but the sport seats were either single color, or two toned.

wow, maggie needs a detail, bad.

:(

dang maggie is worn!!! needs some love and care

[razahyde]

dang maggie is worn!!! needs some love and care

welcome back shady guy

[Payam972]

lol i called u back bro!

[razahyde]

lol i called u back bro!

remind me to punch you in the face at lunch this week.

[Mad Dog 20/20]

M5's are sweet. No doubt. Its the total package that gets me, not the motor.

I've driven a few, and was not nearly as blown away by the power as the OP. You are talking about a car that is roughly as quick as an e46 M3 or a 135i/335i or even a modded e36 M3. PLENTY quick, but not exactly mind-warping speed by today's standards.

But overall, as a package, the e39 M5 is still one of THE best all-around sedans of all time. You gotta love it.

[awise1961]

Good write up.

I feel fortunate to be able to drive both cars:D.

Al. Wise

[e39kiwi]

cool,dream about an m5!! lol

[granitekonig]

lol at the 528i guy trying to make himself feel better about owning a 528

[Cyrix2k]

Unfortunately, I feel a lot of what makes an M5 is in the electronics. The steering box and dbw with ITBs make up for a lot of the feel. Otherwise you really are looking at essentially a souped up 540. I still feel the 540i makes for a better daily while the M5 is a superior track machine. I have not been impressed with the M5's power considering all the motor work done to it. @OP, keep in mind you drove a Dinan M5, so it's no longer the same as a stock M5. I'm pretty confident a built 540i could eat an M5. If I happen to have a bunch of money in the summer, I might build up an NA M62.

Here's my idea:
Ported and Polished heads
Fully balanced internals
Custom ground cams
ITBs with a non-restrictive intake tract
Possibly stroked/bored to 5L
Electric fan, electric water pump

I also have a really bad idea I want to research. I'm wondering if it's possible to actuate each valve individually (solenoids?) and completely ditch the cams. That would give infinitely variable timing possibilities. The solenoids would need to be fast and reliable to be feasable.

[awise1961]

The M5 is not a track machine.
When it first arrived in the U.S. in late "99" it was a world class sport sedan and set a standard to be chased.
What is amazing is that almost ten years after its introduction it still holds its own against most new performance sedans.
As compared to the 540, the M5 is not about the electronics. It has bigger brakes, a more refined sport tuned suspension geometry, limited slip differential, and more horsepower/torque. The horsepower/torque is not made by modding a 540 motor. This is a separate, purpose built motor that makes its power the old fashion way via displacement, compression, valve train timing and duration. The oiling system is designed to act like a dry sump system to keep oil starvation from damaging the crank and bearings during high lateral "G" loads. This combination of horsepower and torque make the car feel like my old AMX's and big block Camaros of yester year. This feeling is what is mostly missing from BMW's new high revving, lower torque to horsepower ratio "M" motors.

Al. Wise

[Cyrix2k]

Here's the changes from the M62 to the S62.




Increased bore and stroke to 94 mm and 89 mm respectively
Compression increased to 11.0:1
Individual electronically-controlled throttle bodies for each cylinder with M Driving Dynamics, two-stage control via (sport button).
Double VANOS continuously-variable valve timing on intake and exhaust strokes
Siemens MSS 522 Motronic digital engine management system
Modified Cylinder-heads
Dual air induction system
Three-layer steel head gaskets
Hollow camshafts
High capacity water pump
Duplex chain drive for intake cams
G-force sensitive lubrication system with two scavenging pumps, one for each cylinder bank
Coolant to oil heat exchanger
Free-flow exhaust with dual catalytic converters


That's not a huge difference and a built NA M62 is modified more extensively. I don't know how much experience you have with cars, but considering the higher displacement, higher rev limit, lower restriction intake and exhaust, and the higher compression, its power output is rather poor. Your statement that "the horsepower/torque is not made by modding a 540 motor" is blatantly wrong. It is correct in the sense bolt-ons won't do much, but a built motor is a different ball game and the S62 is a factory modded 540 motor.

Back to the M62 for a second. There's a lot of potential in it... DOHC, it should flow well, it has 7 4 bolt mains iirc, and it has a pretty short stroke. It should be able to rev to 8 grand with little work (most of it would need to be valve train). Pistons are available for many compression ratios all the way to 12.5:1. Bumping the compression a full point to 11:1 would result in significant gains by itself. As horsepower is a function of torque, raising the rev limit will increase horsepower as long as the motor can breathe. This is why the M5 has a good deal more horsepower than the 540, but not much more torque which was mostly gained through the larger displacement of the S62 and higher CR. A well built NA motor is capable of in excess of 100hp/L on pump gas which puts the M62B44 at a realistically attainable 440hp or if bored/stroked, 500+ hp.

Oh yeah, and soon as you change the suspension on either car, the options are near identical with biggest difference being the M5 weighs less.

[awise1961]

In my 48 years I have owned over thirty-two automibiles and equally as many motorcycles. In the "70's" I was an amatuer class motocross racer (Suzuki then Maico). In the early "90's" I was a regular at the weekly grudge match drag races at Firebird Raceway in Phoenix with my "68" 390 Go-Pac AMC AMX. I have performed more motor builds, camshaft, intake, tranny, and rear diff swaps than most people could imagine.
There, enough for me having a lack of experience with cars.
I am not putting down the 540. I own one for God's sake and I too believe it to be a good car. As far as spending the money and time to extensively modifiy the of a M62 of 540, it is my opinion that you are wasting your time. The S62 already has a leg up and would be a better starting point, and yes it has a huge difference, just read you own post.

Al. Wise

[granitekonig]

Oh please. Yeah the M5 is an amazing car, but to say you can't modify a 540i to surpass the performance of an M5 is just plain stupid.

Throw a 3.15 limited slip diff and an ESS supercharger and you are blowing an M5 out of the water. Don't believe me? Look up quarter mile times and horsepower figures and compare.

Also, the M5 suspension is not leaps and bounds away from a SPORT edition 540i and by putting on a quality coil over suspension or even high quality springs and koni shocks with larger diameter anti-roll bars, you've got a much better handing 540 than M5.

Yes you could mod the M5....but I'm just pointing out that a 540i is still a beast and with not too much money you can stomp a stock M5.

[IslandS62]

Nice write up. In all honesty I have never had the pleasure of driving a 540 6-speed, but would love to have the chance to A-B the two cars. I must be a pretty awesome drive in its own right as I have a 4.4 X5 and frankly that thing can be a beast. I can imagine with 1500 lbs less mass and a manual tranny that it would haul quite well.

[btmlinedan]

Oh please. Yeah the M5 is an amazing car, but to say you can't modify a 540i to surpass the performance of an M5 is just plain stupid.

Throw a 3.15 limited slip diff and an ESS supercharger and you are blowing an M5 out of the water. Don't believe me? Look up quarter mile times and horsepower figures and compare.

Also, the M5 suspension is not leaps and bounds away from a SPORT edition 540i and by putting on a quality coil over suspension or even high quality springs and koni shocks with larger diameter anti-roll bars, you've got a much better handing 540 than M5.

Yes you could mod the M5....but I'm just pointing out that a 540i is still a beast and with not too much money you can stomp a stock M5.

So what happens when you put a supercharger on an m5? :shifty

[mottati]

I also have a really bad idea I want to research. I'm wondering if it's possible to actuate each valve individually (solenoids?) and completely ditch the cams. That would give infinitely variable timing possibilities. The solenoids would need to be fast and reliable to be feasable.

bmw calls it valvetronic. They say they'll never use it on an M engine because it's not responsive enough, but it's used on many of the engines they produce today.

[awise1961]

So what happens when you put a supercharger on an m5? :shifty

Touche!
Any car can be modded to beat a stock car.
Look at how many of us report that we get challenged on the streets by drivers of fart piped Civics. They too dream of putting on a supercharger, or turbo's, and beating a bigger dog. This is a very common occurence in nature. Little guys always want to be bigger and are very sensitive to those who tell them that they don't measure up.

[razahyde]

So what happens when you put a supercharger on an m5? :shifty

yea apparantly thats not the cool thing to do. guys always compare modded 540i to a stock M5. you throw simple headers on the M5 and that blown 540i is done lol


Touche!
Any car can be modded to beat a stock car.
Look at how many of us report that we get challenged on the streets by drivers of fart piped Civics. They too dream of putting on a supercharger, or turbo's, and beating a bigger dog. This is a very common occurence in nature. Little guys always want to be bigger and are very sensitive to those who tell them that they don't measure up.

al don't say that, keep that on the low before the i6 guys see this thread. they are super sensitive when you mention power. notice how majority of the threads with FI involve an i6 motor.

[Cyrix2k]

yea apparantly thats not the cool thing to do. guys always compare modded 540i to a stock M5. you throw simple headers on the M5 and that blown 540i is done lol
don't M5's and 540i's already have a pretty decent exhaust? I can see you losing power if you're not careful.

[IslandS62]

you'd think so, buthte headers on the M5 are a huge choke point. A good set like Dinan and Supersprint can yield another 25-30 hp.

[MPD47]

don't M5's and 540i's already have a pretty decent exhaust? I can see you losing power if you're not careful.
Guys are easily hitting 400whp with e39 M5's and some simple bolt on mods.

Dinan claims 470bhp out of the S2 cars (so all the usual bolt ons + cams).


M5's are sweet. No doubt. Its the total package that gets me, not the motor.

I've driven a few, and was not nearly as blown away by the power as the OP. You are talking about a car that is roughly as quick as an e46 M3 or a 135i/335i or even a modded e36 M3. PLENTY quick, but not exactly mind-warping speed by today's standards.

But overall, as a package, the e39 M5 is still one of THE best all-around sedans of all time. You gotta love it.
Indeed, it's my favorite of the 20+ cars I've owned in the past few years.

However, e46 M3's? Nah. I've gone neck and neck with two e92's from 45-145 barely losing to both.

[mottati]

Dinan claims 470bhp out of the S2 cars (so all the usual bolt ons + cams).

S2 package does not include cams, that's an option, and brings the dinan hp to 481. If you go that far, may as well have dinan port the heads for little bit more. Really quite close to e60 territory.

and yes, headers are the biggest bang for the buck on an s62 (bmw uses the same manifolds on the m62 as the s62, you'll see 30hp with headers).

[MPD47]

I could've sworn it did include cams? Meh, oh well. I'm mistaken from time to time ;)

[Michael Star]

Don't forget the 4.6 motor makes 350hp/tq and it is very close to the 4.4 :D

[e39kiwi]

thanks for sharing! lucky bugger i would like to take one of those for a skid

[Cyrix2k]

I think the 4.6 would be a good candidate for a swap since it produces a decent amount of power and should be readily available for cheap (for a V8 anyway).

About the headers... would I see gains on an M62?

[razahyde]

Here's the changes from the M62 to the S62.


That's not a huge difference and a built NA M62 is modified more extensively. I don't know how much experience you have with cars, but considering the higher displacement, higher rev limit, lower restriction intake and exhaust, and the higher compression, its power output is rather poor. Your statement that "the horsepower/torque is not made by modding a 540 motor" is blatantly wrong. It is correct in the sense bolt-ons won't do much, but a built motor is a different ball game and the S62 is a factory modded 540 motor.

Back to the M62 for a second. There's a lot of potential in it... DOHC, it should flow well, it has 7 4 bolt mains iirc, and it has a pretty short stroke. It should be able to rev to 8 grand with little work (most of it would need to be valve train). Pistons are available for many compression ratios all the way to 12.5:1. Bumping the compression a full point to 11:1 would result in significant gains by itself. As horsepower is a function of torque, raising the rev limit will increase horsepower as long as the motor can breathe. This is why the M5 has a good deal more horsepower than the 540, but not much more torque which was mostly gained through the larger displacement of the S62 and higher CR. A well built NA motor is capable of in excess of 100hp/L on pump gas which puts the M62B44 at a realistically attainable 440hp or if bored/stroked, 500+ hp.

Oh yeah, and soon as you change the suspension on either car, the options are near identical with biggest difference being the M5 weighs less.


don't M5's and 540i's already have a pretty decent exhaust? I can see you losing power if you're not careful.

so let me get this straight, you go from saying the M62 has a lot of potential and blah blah blah.

then in the second quote you ask if the X62 engines have decent exhaust and you're losing power if you're not careful.

so arent you basically contradicting yourself? i mean if you knew anything you would know headers on the X62 motors will yield the biggest gains next to a blower. so how exactly are you making these claims about the M62 if you dont even know that?

[skateparks]

I sold my M5 last year (boohoo) and after a long search found a 60k Sport, premium and cold weather 5 speed touring, silver on black (same as my M5) and have been driving that since. 25-30 mpg is nice as is the extra space... but it's gawd-awful slow. Long story short, my wife hates not having the 400 hp M5 so I either buy another one in the spring (for her, of course) or FI the touring. To be honest I am leaning towards the latter.

Since my touring has the seats, steering wheel, etc and I can easily get 300-320 hp out of it and still have a touring it is pretty appealing.

As far as the original post, I agree. the M5 is just an incredibly balanced, powerful and, most importantly, USABLE car. It is missed but will be replaced...

[Cyrix2k]

headers are not the same as the motor. Anyway, I'll need to do more research. So far, all I've seen are gains on 100% aftermarket exhaust which would make sense since you already changed the tuned portion of the exhaust.

[curt2128]

lol at the 528i guy trying to make himself feel better about owning a 528
Lol my audio system cost more then your car;)

[jcdavis]

Did raza pay you to give that review....? I have driven a 540i and it wasn’t that fun I mean the power was nice... but the front end was way too heavy. I didn’t like how I had to take the turns slow in the 540i compared to my 528i to me if you’re looking for performance buy a car that is meant for that.... we all lose sight of what our cars were meant to be luxury sport sedan.


Would a 525i out run you in the twisties? After all the front end is a little lighter. Give props to the cars for what BMW designed them to be. Bottom line the M5 rocks and anyone that says different is just Sour Grapes.

[razahyde]

Would a 525i out run you in the twisties? After all the front end is a little lighter. Give props to the cars for what BMW designed them to be. Bottom line the M5 rocks and anyone that says different is just Sour Grapes.

+ f'ing 1


Lol my audio system cost more then your car;)

lol at your statement

[Gumbi4u]

I will chime in. I have driven all models of the e39 minus the euro models which are diesel and have weird number designations like 518/523 etc etc.

A properly maintained 6 speed 540 is fast. Thats a fact. A poorly maintained 540 or any other car for that matter will not fulfill any expectations. I have sat in 540's that feel heavy and tug boatish. Thats due to the type of suspension and how the engine has been maintained. MartinV's car as well as Dan's car is very quick and does not feel heavy at all. They are maintained and thats why they reward with WIN!

All e39's pretty much weigh the same. They are all within a few hundered pounds. A 525 or 530 can easily be made to feel heavy with crappy warn out shocks. Put proper suspension on said cars and they will feel light footed and nimble.

Now the whole 540 and M5 debate. A 540 is NOT quicker by any means. They do NOT feel the same way. They are not comparable. MAYBE if you were to put the same type of suspension ie pss9, dinan etc etc then they MIGHT feel the same as far as handling. But the power difference is quite big. Will a 540 modded blow away an m5. Absolutely. Will even walk it if the FI is done right and might even walk an m5 modded with simple bolt ons. FI an M5 and its a wrap. No exception to that rule.

People will bicker night and day and try to find the pro's and cons of each model. A person owning a 540 will always try their best to one up an m5 owner. Its in our nature to do so. But then they will always downgrade people owning anything less then a 540. M5 owners think they are on top of the world with their 10 year old cars. Its a cycle. Every car has its flaws and every car will be the best thing in the world to their owners.

Lets not get it twisted though. They made different models for a reason. Budget wise and power need wise. Suspension wise the cars all differ in stock form. The i6 models are more nimble then the v8 counterparts. Change up the suspensions and you WILL level the playing field.

[granitekonig]

Lol my audio system cost more then your car;)


It's a good thing, too. Otherwise your ego might get the better of you and might do something silly like sell all of that useless CAR audio money-wasting equipment and UPGRADE to a better car.

I'm glad you have your priorities in place. Heck, I'd rather drive an inline-six mustang over a GT, too! As long as I gots me a bumpin' system, yo. :cool

That was a perfectly balanced point of view Gumbi, thanks. Don't get me wrong, I'd kill to have a M5. I was just counterpointing someone who insinuated that 540's are impressively fast. They are and M5 is really only one of a FEW 4 dour cars out there that can beat it.

..."aren't", I meant to say

[Payam972]

It's a good thing, too. Otherwise your ego might get the better of you and might do something silly like sell all of that useless CAR audio money-wasting equipment and UPGRADE to a better car.

I'm glad you have your priorities in place. Heck, I'd rather drive an inline-six mustang over a GT, too! As long as I gots me a bumpin' system, yo. :cool

That was a perfectly balanced point of view Gumbi, thanks. Don't get me wrong, I'd kill to have a M5. I was just counterpointing someone who insinuated that 540's are impressively fast. They are and M5 is really only one of a FEW 4 dour cars out there that can beat it.

..."aren't", I meant to say

i agree with everything you said except for the last part. in this day and age...MOST four door cars will take the 540i. the M5 is just average compared to all the new cars out there too

[skateparks]

i in this day and age...MOST four door cars will take the 540i. the M5 is just average compared to all the new cars out there too

Yes and no. we don't buy 5's as drag cars so to say MOST 4 door cars will take the 540, given it's 6-10 year age, is a little stretch. And to say the e39 M5 is average, again given it's age, compared to most new cars I cannot agree with. The grunt, simplicity, refinement and overall fit and finish is simply in another league from anything I've driven... certainly anything a mortal can own and insure. BUT, maybe that's just me and simply my opinion.

[Payam972]

Yes and no. we don't buy 5's as drag cars so to say MOST 4 door cars will take the 540, given it's 6-10 year age, is a little stretch. And to say the e39 M5 is average, again given it's age, compared to most new cars I cannot agree with. The grunt, simplicity, refinement and overall fit and finish is simply in another league from anything I've driven... certainly anything a mortal can own and insure. BUT, maybe that's just me and simply my opinion.

i agree with your point, all im saying is this...yes these cars are previous gen now... its wrong to compare with newer ones, BUT, i dont mean straightline only. there are just simply too many new cars out there that handle better and are faster than our e39s. so my point was to point out that instead of a few cars, most new performance sedans are faster than these cars. hell a new g35 sedan is faster than a 540.

my viewpoint is that in their time, they were simply the best bang for the buck, performance and comfort wise...now the performance of these cars just simply gets lost with all the other options out there.

either way. e39 for life :buttrock

[skateparks]

i hell a new g35 sedan is faster than a 540. watch your tongue, young man :nono maybe so, but who would want to drive one, with their silly dashes and plastic interiors...:D

[Payam972]

watch your tongue, young man :nono maybe so, but who would want to drive one, with their silly dashes and plastic interiors...:D

hahaha this is true!!! i couldnt drive an infiniti :rolleyes

[razahyde]

hahaha this is true!!! i couldnt drive an infiniti :rolleyes

traitor. :nono

[Gumbi4u]

The new cars coming out are really quick. Shoot even Hyundai Sonatas are very quick. Its a shame really. But I agree with skateparks. We dont have dragsters. Just very quick family sedans.

[Dario528i]

Hey, m5's are just that. No words to say and no car to compare it with. It has its own league. So who ever compares their car to the m5 .. well u know :devillook All i know is these M5's outperform the new m3 in lets say straight line race and that says something for a car that can be used daily as a family car :buttrock anyways gumbi said it all so listen to the wise man.

P.S. Hopefully ill be owning a m5 soon fellas.. keep your fingers crossed!

[mmm635]

Hey, m5's are just that. No words to say and no car to compare it with. It has its own league. So who ever compares their car to the m5 .. well u know :devillook All i know is these M5's outperform the new m3 in lets say straight line race and that says something for a car that can be used daily as a family car :buttrock anyways gumbi said it all so listen to the wise man.

P.S. Hopefully ill be owning a m5 soon fellas.. keep your fingers crossed!

I would say that is stretching it a little bit. That is not even considering going into a turn. However, I catch your drift.

[Payam972]

Hey, m5's are just that. No words to say and no car to compare it with. It has its own league. So who ever compares their car to the m5 .. well u know :devillook All i know is these M5's outperform the new m3 in lets say straight line race and that says something for a car that can be used daily as a family car :buttrock anyways gumbi said it all so listen to the wise man.

P.S. Hopefully ill be owning a m5 soon fellas.. keep your fingers crossed!

the e90/92 M3 is faster than an m5 stock for stock

[mmm635]

I will chime in. I have driven all models of the e39 minus the euro models which are diesel and have weird number designations like 518/523 etc etc.

A properly maintained 6 speed 540 is fast. Thats a fact. A poorly maintained 540 or any other car for that matter will not fulfill any expectations. I have sat in 540's that feel heavy and tug boatish. Thats due to the type of suspension and how the engine has been maintained. MartinV's car as well as Dan's car is very quick and does not feel heavy at all. They are maintained and thats why they reward with WIN!

All e39's pretty much weigh the same. They are all within a few hundered pounds. A 525 or 530 can easily be made to feel heavy with crappy warn out shocks. Put proper suspension on said cars and they will feel light footed and nimble.

Now the whole 540 and M5 debate. A 540 is NOT quicker by any means. They do NOT feel the same way. They are not comparable. MAYBE if you were to put the same type of suspension ie pss9, dinan etc etc then they MIGHT feel the same as far as handling. But the power difference is quite big. Will a 540 modded blow away an m5. Absolutely. Will even walk it if the FI is done right and might even walk an m5 modded with simple bolt ons. FI an M5 and its a wrap. No exception to that rule.

People will bicker night and day and try to find the pro's and cons of each model. A person owning a 540 will always try their best to one up an m5 owner. Its in our nature to do so. But then they will always downgrade people owning anything less then a 540. M5 owners think they are on top of the world with their 10 year old cars. Its a cycle. Every car has its flaws and every car will be the best thing in the world to their owners.

Lets not get it twisted though. They made different models for a reason. Budget wise and power need wise. Suspension wise the cars all differ in stock form. The i6 models are more nimble then the v8 counterparts. Change up the suspensions and you WILL level the playing field.


Right on.

[jburnham]

hell a new g35 sedan is faster than a 540


maybe so, but who would want to drive one, with their silly dashes and plastic interiors...:D

I sold my G35 to buy my 540 and every time I get into my older, higher mileage, higher maintenance 540, I seriously think "this car rocks". I really think the E39 is my dream car. I sometimes daydream of a low milage M5, but wouldn't swap an equal value M5 for my car. I sometimes dream of a restored, older E30 or E36 M3 or even a convertible as a third car, but never as a replacement for my E39. I never dream of an E60 - I'd go back to Infiniti first.

[curt2128]

It's a good thing, too. Otherwise your ego might get the better of you and might do something silly like sell all of that useless CAR audio money-wasting equipment and UPGRADE to a better car.

I'm glad you have your priorities in place. Heck, I'd rather drive an inline-six mustang over a GT, too! As long as I gots me a bumpin' system, yo. :cool

That was a perfectly balanced point of view Gumbi, thanks. Don't get me wrong, I'd kill to have a M5. I was just counterpointing someone who insinuated that 540's are impressively fast. They are and M5 is really only one of a FEW 4 dour cars out there that can beat it.

..."aren't", I meant to say
Why upgarde to better car its my dd i already have a nice american classic car.
why would I buy a v8 when gas was at $4.35 a gallon yo when my 528i was doing the job that i wanted it to do. Be a daily driver that gets decent mpg yo...
Keep driving ur check mobile;)

[Marven]

I sold my G35 to buy my 540 and every time I get into my older, higher mileage, higher maintenance 540, I seriously think "this car rocks". I really think the E39 is my dream car. I sometimes daydream of a low milage M5, but wouldn't swap an equal value M5 for my car. I sometimes dream of a restored, older E30 or E36 M3 or even a convertible as a third car, but never as a replacement for my E39. I never dream of an E60 - I'd go back to Infiniti first.

Are they that bad :confused??

I was thinking of that 4 my next car...:shifty

M.

[Dario528i]

I would say that is stretching it a little bit. That is not even considering going into a turn. However, I catch your drift.
word brotha! you know what i mean that's all that counts, didn't use much effort to explain since the wise one alrdy took care of that :stickoutt


the e90/92 M3 is faster than an m5 stock for stock
Hey bro, im just going by what i see on the net. And i believe i was watching stock cars and the m5 won by a car length but i don't know check it out there are plenty of videos on youtube.

example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pUrHCl6uwE but regardless all i know is the m5 has been my dream car since i was little and im working on getting one atm.

[Busta]

This whole 540 vs M5 debate has to stop :) , Do what I just did, have a 540 as a DD and pickup a M5 for pleasure use :) I just picked up a 2003 M5 :) I should of skipped the E60 and went with the M years ago.

[Payam972]

word brotha! you know what i mean that's all that counts, didn't use much effort to explain since the wise one alrdy took care of that :stickoutt


Hey bro, im just going by what i see on the net. And i believe i was watching stock cars and the m5 won by a car length but i don't know check it out there are plenty of videos on youtube.

example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pUrHCl6uwE but regardless all i know is the m5 has been my dream car since i was little and im working on getting one atm.

thats gustavs car. and it is modded. i said stock for stock

[MPD47]

And he got a pretty nice jump.

[veritas]

Almost every single thread in the e39 forum is you 540 geeks fronting about your displacements.

I have a M52TU ALUMINUM BLOCK SON! how u gonna ack?

That, my friends, is the question.

[jcdavis]

:rolleyes Well, this thread started off good.:rolleyes

[jburnham]

I sold my G35 to buy my 540 and every time I get into my older, higher mileage, higher maintenance 540, I seriously think "this car rocks". I never dream of an E60 - I'd go back to Infiniti first.


Are they that bad :confused??

I was thinking of that 4 my next car...:shifty

M.

Whether you are considering an E60 or a G35 for your next car, you should really take it on a long test drive and think about whether you feel good about the car. My G35 was a "good" car, but had no soul. It had plenty of power, balanced neutral handling and was reliable - but it just didn't excite me.

[razahyde]

Why upgarde to better car its my dd i already have a nice american classic car.
why would I buy a v8 when gas was at $4.35 a gallon yo when my 528i was doing the job that i wanted it to do. Be a daily driver that gets decent mpg yo...
Keep driving ur check mobile;)

idk whats more petty, you talking about your lame audio equipment, or the fact you sound like a complete tool.

fyi-gas is the most petty reasoning ive heard for driving a car. this is coming from someone who racks up 600 miles a week EASILY.

[Turbo Charg Dynam]

I will add my comments here. This is coming from a hardcore anti M enthusiast who started a company just to show M car Owners what's up. :lol

The M5 is not just about the HP rating or brake size or any of the other technical specifications. I didn't know that until I spent some time in one.

The interior is so much nicer. Everything. The quality of the leather is so much higher than the lesser models that it is amazing. The alcantara headliner, shades, etc. All of these things make the entire car unreal.

It sounds and performs great bone stock. Sure I can take a 540i and boost it and be faster and probably even make a 528i faster but it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to duplicate all the little things.

It's a very rare thing for me to say that buying a M5 makes way more sense than hot rodding a lesser model.

BTW, my e34 540i running 8psi supercharged was not as fast as a stock e39 M5.

[curt2128]

idk whats more petty, you talking about your lame audio equipment, or the fact you sound like a complete tool.

fyi-gas is the most petty reasoning ive heard for driving a car. this is coming from someone who racks up 600 miles a week EASILY.
Lol How’s living at ur moms and dads? baller and also lame audio system please I used to compete in sound comps. I mean ur m5 is nothing special especially when u only paid 12k.... I think its funny how u think ur cool because u have a m lol get a car that’s not feasible for the general pop then try and diss me

[Gumbi4u]

Lol How’s living at ur moms and dads? baller and also lame audio system please I used to compete in sound comps. I mean ur m5 is nothing special especially when u only paid 12k.... I think its funny how u think ur cool because u have a m lol get a car that’s not feasible for the general pop then try and diss me



Bro seriously stop. It keeps getting deeper and deeper. Put the shovel down.

[Payam972]

Bro seriously stop. It keeps getting deeper and deeper. Put the shovel down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4

just enjoy this lol and forget the bs!

[540IForMe]

I'm going to get an M and put a 540i badge on it. What now suckas?

[exproject]

Well, I kinda hoped the thread would go nicely. :shifty

[jcdavis]

I'm going to get an M and put a 540i badge on it. What now suckas?


My M is debadged. I thought about putting a 528i on it, but i think the rumble would give me away.

[Cyrix2k]

I will add my comments here. This is coming from a hardcore anti M enthusiast who started a company just to show M car Owners what's up. :lol

The M5 is not just about the HP rating or brake size or any of the other technical specifications. I didn't know that until I spent some time in one.

The interior is so much nicer. Everything. The quality of the leather is so much higher than the lesser models that it is amazing. The alcantara headliner, shades, etc. All of these things make the entire car unreal.

It sounds and performs great bone stock. Sure I can take a 540i and boost it and be faster and probably even make a 528i faster but it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to duplicate all the little things.

It's a very rare thing for me to say that buying a M5 makes way more sense than hot rodding a lesser model.

BTW, my e34 540i running 8psi supercharged was not as fast as a stock e39 M5.
You're definitely right about the interior. As for your e34, it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison as the M60 isn't pushing the power an M62 is and the e34 is heavier. That said, I'm surprised it doesn't run better with 8 lbs of boost.

[bildar]

I got to drive an '03 M5 when I was down in Fresno over Christmas. I loved it! I would move up to an M5 if I didn't have to have an automatic.

[Dinan5VA]

To each his own... If you want a M5, get one. If you enjoy fixing up your E39's, then enjoy. I have a 540i Sport with a Dinan S2 package... It's close to a M5, but not close enough. I would love to have and drive a M5, but do not want to deal with a manual transmission in Washington DC metropolitan traffic, including waiting in a long carpool lane every morning to drop off kids at school. Also, my wife does not know how to drive manual... Don't need to add that to many of her complaints.

Man, I have a chance to buy a '00 M5 with 35K miles and tuned up to have 500+ hp... I can't stop thinking about it. If I get it, I'm afraid that I'm going to step on the gas a little too hard and rocket into a back of a minivan stopped at carpool lane.

I guess I need to be happy with my 540i...

[Gumbi4u]

To each his own... If you want a M5, get one. If you enjoy fixing up your E39's, then enjoy. I have a 540i Sport with a Dinan S2 package... It's close to a M5, but not close enough. I would love to have and drive a M5, but do not want to deal with a manual transmission in Washington DC metropolitan traffic, including waiting in a long carpool lane every morning to drop off kids at school. Also, my wife does not know how to drive manual... Don't need to add that to many of her complaints.

Man, I have a chance to buy a '00 M5 with 35K miles and tuned up to have 500+ hp... I can't stop thinking about it. If I get it, I'm afraid that I'm going to step on the gas a little too hard and rocket into a back of a minivan stopped at carpool lane.

I guess I need to be happy with my 540i...

Agreed. The manual WAS an issue at the time I got the 525 BUT I wasnt thinking properly since I have 4 other cars that I can use in daily traffic. This is a hobby and I should have bought the M5.

[razahyde]

Agreed. The manual WAS an issue at the time I got the 525 BUT I wasnt thinking properly since I have 4 other cars that I can use in daily traffic. This is a hobby and I should have bought the M5.

525 or m5

talk about a mistake!

:rofl2

<3

[Gumbi4u]

525 or m5

talk about a mistake!

:rofl2

<3

Not a mistake. A learning experience.

[razahyde]

Not a mistake. A learning experience.

:eyecrazy

[Dinan5VA]

Also, finance plays a huge role... M5 is still approx. $10K more than a 540i Sport... Maybe I should just keep the 540i for daily driving and get a E36 M3 (manual) for fun. Hmmm...

[clevertd]

You're definitely right about the interior. As for your e34, it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison as the M60 isn't pushing the power an M62 is and the e34 is heavier. That said, I'm surprised it doesn't run better with 8 lbs of boost.

E34 heavier than the E39? :confused

[03540sport]

E34 heavier than the E39? :confused


Nahh...think the E39 is slightly heavier...but much stiffer than the e34.

[M633CSi]

How do the 2003 540i MSports compare to the M5s

[Payam972]

they dont. they are basically the same as the other 540s except for a few mechanical things. still night and day difference

[Cyrix2k]

E34 heavier than the E39? :confused
Quick google search:

e39:
540i 1700(3748)

e34:
540i 1710(3770)

kg then lbs. There's a bigger difference in the six cylinder models.

[granitekonig]

I usually don't stoop this low, but Curt, I'd seriously like to knock out all of your teeth. That would be just fantastic. I get a guilty throbbing pleasure in unmentionable areas when I think about you lying semi-unconscious with your baseball hat on backwards and your false and shallow sense of self evaporating into confusion. I do hope you grow a brain one day.

[exproject]

I usually don't stoop this low, but Curt, I'd seriously like to knock out all of your teeth. That would be just fantastic. I get a guilty throbbing pleasure in unmentionable areas when I think about you lying semi-unconscious with your baseball hat on backwards and your false and shallow sense of self evaporating into confusion. I do hope you grow a brain one day.



Dang. Psycho ITT.

[granitekonig]

Pretty much. The good news is, I'm good for another two weeks before the next incident. =)

[Marven]

I usually don't stoop this low, but Curt, I'd seriously like to knock out all of your teeth. That would be just fantastic. I get a guilty throbbing pleasure in unmentionable areas when I think about you lying semi-unconscious with your baseball hat on backwards and your false and shallow sense of self evaporating into confusion. I do hope you grow a brain one day.

:eyecrazy