Strut Bar Indecision

[SpeedRx]

I've already tried a search for this, maybe I didn't look deep enough.

There are so many strut braces out there, I don't know what to think.
I do need one that won't interfere with ASC+T.

Thanks for the help.

[MJFX328]

Yes you will need one for cars with ASC. Many are. Single piece units are said to work better.

I suggest you get the Sparco strut brace since its one piece and inexpensive.

[savage217]

The best bang for your buck is mason engineering. Make sure you get a one piece bar to maximize the potential of the strut bar. Ideally the mason steel non asc bar is the best one they sell since everything is straight as can be, steel, and one piece. The asc one is probabaly just as good but on paper the straighter the better. The oe ltw strut bar is king followed by probabaly jtd. The sparco bar is probabaly the next best bar for the price than the mason but it has flaws. If it was straight and not bend the way it does it would be much more affective.

[JazzM]

RE racebrace is also a good alternative. Very similar construction to Mason.

T.

[SpeedRx]

Hmmm...
RE or Mason...

[Xiphos]

The best bang for your buck is mason engineering. Make sure you get a one piece bar to maximize the potential of the strut bar. Ideally the mason steel non asc bar is the best one they sell since everything is straight as can be, steel, and one piece. The asc one is probabaly just as good but on paper the straighter the better. The oe ltw strut bar is king followed by probabaly jtd. The sparco bar is probabaly the next best bar for the price than the mason but it has flaws. If it was straight and not bend the way it does it would be much more affective.

+1. Mason is definitely the best out there for the price.

[Eric98Sedan]

I suggest you get the Sparco strut brace since its one piece and inexpensive.

From an engineering standpoint, the Sparco is probably the worst design out there. The bends are huge and render the bar useless, from a structure standpoint.

The best design is as straight as possible with no joints perpendicular to the load path (hinges).

Mason is a good design, clearly.

[The Letter M]

There's much BS about strut bars out there..

All they have to do is tie the towers together in very hard cornering, and that's really all they are capable of.

Get whichever one you like the looks and cost of, and as long as it can keep the towers together under a few hundred pounds of tension or compression, it's fine.

There is no "best" strut bar, only ones that are built to look like they can do more than what a bar needs to, but there are scads of designs that work fine, hinges or no hinges, wide or narrow, whatever, their job is to tie those towers together & that is that.

Why would BMW build a simple little bar like the OEM bar, when they could have built it any way they like? Simplicity.

If it doesn't stretch or break, you're fine.

Buy the OEM one if you want the coolest looking one...IMHO.

[Eric98Sedan]

Why would BMW build a simple little bar like the OEM bar, when they could have built it any way they like? Simplicity.

Dude you always spew the same old shit. Fine, think what you want, but you still make no sense.

BMW built the bar they built because it's a good design, from an engineering standpoint. It's virtaually straight and contains no hinges.

They chose that design because it addresses the area of concern, NOT because it's 'simple'. Why even bother building one in the first place, if the only goal is 'simplicity'?? Further more, there is a reason they (BMW) installs one from the factory on all 2003 and newer M3s. Because they WORK. In addition, some E46 M3s have been known to actually break the OE brace. How can that be, if the towers aren't flexing? Are you actaully dumb enough to think that a bar like the Sparco, with its HUGE bends, is strong enough to resist tower-flex when the straight OE bar is failing? If so, then you've got geometry to learn.
Your logic is backwords.

[williamm3]

The best bang for your buck is mason engineering. Make sure you get a one piece bar to maximize the potential of the strut bar. Ideally the mason steel non asc bar is the best one they sell since everything is straight as can be, steel, and one piece. The asc one is probabaly just as good but on paper the straighter the better. The oe ltw strut bar is king followed by probabaly jtd. The sparco bar is probabaly the next best bar for the price than the mason but it has flaws. If it was straight and not bend the way it does it would be much more affective.

I must agree.

[JazzM]

This is the one I have:

http://www.rogueengineering.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=RE&Product_Code=RE_RB

No hinges, solid TIG welded construction, works with ASC.

http://www.rebmw.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/suspension/stb/re_racebrace_1500.jpg

T.

[pbonsalb]

Sparco bar is way too flexible. You would have to seriously gusset the bends or weld anothe bar across. I could bend mine (off the car) with my arms and while the ends firmed up when on the car, I think the bar would still be flexing when the towers moved.

[Eric98Sedan]

Sparco bar is way too flexible. You would have to seriously gusset the bends or weld anothe bar across. I could bend mine (off the car) with my arms and while the ends firmed up when on the car, I think the bar would still be flexing when the towers moved.

Exactly my point, as directed to The Letter M.

[Eryan36]

This is the one I have:

http://www.rogueengineering.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=RE&Product_Code=RE_RB

No hinges, solid TIG welded construction, works with ASC.

http://www.rebmw.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/suspension/stb/re_racebrace_1500.jpg

T.

That looks pretty badass.

[The Letter M]

Dude you always spew the same old shit. Fine, think what you want, but you still make no sense.

BMW built the bar they built because it's a good design, from an engineering standpoint. It's virtaually straight and contains no hinges.

They chose that design because it addresses the area of concern, NOT because it's 'simple'. Why even bother building one in the first place, if the only goal is 'simplicity'?? Further more, there is a reason they (BMW) installs one from the factory on all 2003 and newer M3s. Because they WORK. In addition, some E46 M3s have been known to actually break the OE brace. How can that be, if the towers aren't flexing? Are you actaully dumb enough to think that a bar like the Sparco, with its HUGE bends, is strong enough to resist tower-flex when the straight OE bar is failing? If so, then you've got geometry to learn.
Your logic is backwords.

You have completely missed my point.

I spew the same old truth, like it or not, and apparently your comprehension is not great.

The BMW bar is obviously (OK, to most people) not only about simplicity, it is a simple design that WORKS! That is the point, it ties the towers together well, that's it, and that is all it and any other bar is supposed to do.

I have seen the e46 bars allow movement along the bar, leaving the scars on the bar from the lock bolts, and have posted this in the past, so, yes, towers move and this is why we have strut bars.

If the Sparco or any other bar can flex, then, like I eluded to earlier, it would not be much good, and neither would any bar that can not hold those towers together under load.

That is it, carry on bashing if you must, and by the way, my geometry is just fine thanks, but try not to miss the point at least, huh.

[Tlow98]

i like the Rogue and the Mason. That being said I like the "look" of the LTW "M" best. it just does it for me.

Now price comes in to play. M goes out the window. i'll likely buy either the Rogue or the Mason in the near future. 2 cents...

A strutbar is like a bust down. They do what they're asked and if they don't break, well then they've accomplished their goal.

Now being able to bend the Sparco with your arms, is just unnacceptable.

[99MPower]

mason engineering is by far best bang for buck and perfect in an engineering standpoint

[SpeedRx]

mason engineering is by far best bang for buck and perfect in an engineering standpoint

Holy crap your car is insane!

$$$ ?

[ozbmw]

Like "Letter M" said, the strutbrace needs only to be reasonably straight, well bolted down and able to withstand tension loads, all the rest of the bullshit posted here and in the myriad of other threads does not mean much as none of these bars whether hinged on not are able to control any strut displacement in the vertical plane. Their job is merely transfer load onto the inside (unloaded) strut tower in a turn to prevent or reduce the flexing of the outside tower and to reduce the change of camber due to these movements.

[Brent 930]

Get whichever one you like the looks and cost of, and as long as it can keep the towers together under a few hundred pounds of tension or compression, it's fine.

Way more than a few hundred pounds.

The RE bar does look nice, I have seen it before on their website. What I don't understand (like the Sparco bar) is what the extension of the bar towards the firewall is going to achieve? Or, is the theory to give more resistance torsionally via the strut towers under load? Not sure.

[ozbmw]

Way more than a few hundred pounds.

The RE bar does look nice, I have seen it before on their website. What I don't understand (like the Sparco bar) is what the extension of the bar towards the firewall is going to achieve? Or, is the theory to give more resistance torsionally via the strut towers under load? Not sure.

If the RE bar and the Sparco were attached to the firewall by a bracket and bolts then their design would make some sense.

[Brent 930]

Like "Letter M" said, the strutbrace needs only to be reasonably straight, well bolted down and able to withstand tension loads, all the rest of the bullshit posted here and in the myriad of other threads does not mean much as none of these bars whether hinged on not are able to control any strut displacement in the vertical plane. Their job is merely transfer load onto the inside (unloaded) strut tower in a turn to prevent or reduce the flexing of the outside tower and to reduce the change of camber due to these movements.

I'm calling BS to your so called BS that hinged or not doesn't matter.

[SpeedRx]

As far as the Mason bar goes, do you think its worth it to go with aluminum over steel?

[Brent 930]

As far as the Mason bar goes, do you thinks its worth it to go with aluminum over steel?

Yes, if you don't mind the look of aluminum...and you also save a few pounds.

Just a note: the bar is a tight fit. You might have to jack up one side of your car to get it in.

[ozbmw]

I'm calling BS to your so called BS that hinged or not doesn't matter.

Next time you are under the hood of your car try this simple test:

1. Undo the 3 nuts on your right strut tower (assuming that you have a NON-hinged bar of some description).
2. Lift that newly unbolted end on your brace up 1/8th of an inch.

(This should be easy to do)

3. Once you have lifted the bar 1/8th of an inch above the strut top you have negated your own argument about non-hinged bars,

4. The reason that you will be able to lift the bar and therefore negate the hinging argument is that:
a. the bar itself will bend
b. the end mounting plate will deflect a little and
c. the thin steelplate and flexing strut top mount will also deflect.

[Brent 930]

^Your test is a fallacy, do you see why?

Furthermore, this sub forum is just crap. I'm done posting.

This forum is so corrupt with false information.

[JazzM]

If you want something similar to OE design and function, take a look at the adjustable Mason one...

But I think you can't go wrong with either the non-adjustable one, the RE one or this one.

http://www.masonengineering.net/images/E36adj.gif

Also Strong-Strut is also a good design and quality with many different finishes available (the Competition Lightweight model in particular):

http://www.strong-strut.com/ring_with_kit6.jpg

T.

[shaeff]

If the bar has hinges, it's not doing anything aside from looking pretty.

The Mason bar is about the only one I'd bother to put on my car, and for good reason.

[M3C]

Next time you are under the hood of your car try this simple test:

1. Undo the 3 nuts on your right strut tower (assuming that you have a NON-hinged bar of some description).
2. Lift that newly unbolted end on your brace up 1/8th of an inch.

(This should be easy to do)

3. Once you have lifted the bar 1/8th of an inch above the strut top you have negated your own argument about non-hinged bars,

4. The reason that you will be able to lift the bar and therefore negate the hinging argument is that:
a. the bar itself will bend
b. the end mounting plate will deflect a little and
c. the thin steelplate and flexing strut top mount will also deflect.

So true, agree with you.
I have Dinan front & rear and would not replace them with any other type. They are hinged but serve the purpouse and look very cool with CF inserts.
I would not even try to prove Dinan wrong on this...
It is funny how many don't understand a simple thing as per your #3, that can be done with one finger-hinged or non hinged.

[shaeff]

So your strut towers only exert that much force on the bar? Seriously. Hinged= crap. Sorry.

[CMG]

This is an interesting thread with alot of opinions. Perhaps someone could possibly back it up with some kind of test or chart that has been done, rather than arguing opinions?

[SpeedRx]

What kind of bar is that on your car OZ?

[M3C]

So your strut towers only exert that much force on the bar? Seriously. Hinged= crap. Sorry.

We were talking here the dimension values as well, towers do not even move up-down 1/8" under any driving conditions.
Strut towers exert much more force on the bar as a pulling and/or compresing only, not up-down.
I have seen so many non hinged bars that can be easy bent by hand and would not use them, as long as the bar is strong it does not matter hinged or not as long as it resists pulling and compresing forces between towers.
As of today I have not seen any other front & rear bars that beat Dinan on my list.

[SpeedRx]

Gahhh! Choices increasing again!

[ozbmw]

What kind of bar is that on your car OZ?

It is a direct copy of the original BMW one it was made by DA Motorsport.
Cost was USD 270 including freight to Australia.
Due to delays over Christmas, they also sent me a free rear tower brace.

It is a very good copy, although I had to shorten the crossbar by 10mm.

[SpeedRx]

Very nice. :clap

[savage217]

The RE bar is basically a sparco strut bar with an added cross brace for strength. I dont like that bar because the mounting points look terrible and like I said its basically a sparco with an added piece, which still doesnt look that strong. The mason bar looks far superior.

[miniz119]

Hi...I'm not new to the forum, but i did look up this same topic when i was looking for a strut bar. After 2 months of searching the forums, i eventually decided to go with a Mason Steel ASC.
Build Quality is Great.

[M3C]

Pic...

[ozbmw]

This is an interesting thread with alot of opinions. Perhaps someone could possibly back it up with some kind of test or chart that has been done, rather than arguing opinions?

I have seen 2 tests done (one which can be googled easily "strut tower deflection measurement")
Both test showed that the amounts of deflection involved are very small, in fact as small as 40/1000" under normal loads and the deflections are generally lateral.

The sole purpose of the brace is to share the cornering load between the 2 struts towers instead of just one.

Preventing vertical movement of the towers in relation to each other is for all intents impossible without a purpose built chassis mounted welded rollcage and reinforced towers.

Roadcars generally cannot generate enough grip with road tyres to deflect the strut towers enough to make these braces very effective.

In all seriousness the only thing strutbraces on roadcars do is
a. look good
b. provide a nice rest for your free hand when detailing the enginebay
and
c. empty your wallet.

You would have to drive like this to get any real benefit from them:

[gerry_miranda]

Believe it or not, a strut bar, due to just the leverage alone will not stop the strut towers from deflecting UP or DOWN. Its like a huge 4 ft. breaker bar. If you think about it, take a breaker bar and bolt on side of it with 3 M8 screws. Now put a few hundred pounds of force on the other end, I bet you strip or shear those M8s. The strut bar is mainly there to stop deflection of the strut tower LATERALLY.

http://www.e30m3project.com/e30m3performance/myths/Strutbar_Theory/strut_bar_theory.htm

[JazzM]

The RE bar is basically a sparco strut bar with an added cross brace for strength. I dont like that bar because the mounting points look terrible and like I said its basically a sparco with an added piece, which still doesnt look that strong. The mason bar looks far superior.

RE bar is TIG welded and mandrel bent construction. Its very solid non-hinged one piece bar.

I think both are good and solid products.

UUC magnesium one is good too (strut barbarian), however if you have adjustable shocks (koni) then its a bad design since you'd have to remove the bar to adjust them.

T.

[The Letter M]

Without being insulting, I think it is fair to say that many of the forum members either do not fully understand the purpose and limitations of a strut bar, the force it is trying to counteract, or they have simply adopted and regurgitated some of the info they have already read.

For those of you who feel that the Mason bar is the only one worth buying, please, buy it, it is a fine example of a strut bar, and there is no reason not to. It works.

It does nothing more in practice than any other bar, like say the Dinan bar, or countless others that work, but it is nonetheless, a nice bar that has satisfied many owners.

Until you understand that the force a strut bar is resisting is merely the force pulling the outside tower outward in a hard corner, you will not see how simple the thing really is.

As for the amount of force, yes it IS a few hundred pounds pulling outward on your outside strut tower in a hard corner, ultimately affecting your camber, and maybe even causing stress fractures of some tower sheet metal, but we use the bar to tie the outside tower across to the opposing tower which is used as an anchor, only to prevent that outside tower from deflecting.

If you don't like hearing this, then don't read it, but the fact is that a strut bar's job is very basic, not some magic part that will stabilze the entire front end from a radius of forces.

I contend that this simple part has been more misunderstood than almost any other bolt-on.

Also, none of you would ever notice a difference between strut bar types on your car, and you would probably never feel the bar there at all on the street, so, once again, buy the one you like, or the one that allows you to run camber plates, etc.

After ALL that, I still like the OEM bar, or that one OZ has from DA Motorsport.

Hell, OZ I might even have to try to get one of those bars to add to my growing hinged & non hinged strut bar collection...

Buy whatever you like.

[SpeedRx]

Without being insulting, I think it is fair to say that many of the forum members either do not fully understand the purpose and limitations of a strut bar, the force it is trying to counteract, or they have simply adopted and regurgitated some of the info they have already read.

For those of you who feel that the Mason bar is the only one worth buying, please, buy it, it is a fine example of a strut bar, and there is no reason not to. It works.

It does nothing more in practice than any other bar, like say the Dinan bar, or countless others that work, but it is nonetheless, a nice bar that has satisfied many owners.

Until you understand that the force a strut bar is resisting is merely the force pulling the outside tower outward in a hard corner, you will not see how simple the thing really is.

As for the amount of force, yes it IS a few hundred pounds pulling outward on your outside strut tower in a hard corner, ultimately affecting your camber, and maybe even causing stress fractures of some tower sheet metal, but we use the bar to tie the outside tower across to the opposing tower which is used as an anchor, only to prevent that outside tower from deflecting.

If you don't like hearing this, then don't read it, but the fact is that a strut bar's job is very basic, not some magic part that will stabilze the entire front end from a radius of forces.

I contend that this simple part has been more misunderstood than almost any other bolt-on.

Also, none of you would ever notice a difference between strut bar types on your car, and you would probably never feel the bar there at all on the street, so, once again, buy the one you like, or the one that allows you to run camber plates, etc.

After ALL that, I still like the OEM bar, or that one OZ has from DA Motorsport.

Hell, OZ I might even have to try to get one of those bars to add to my growing hinged & non hinged strut bar collection...

Buy whatever you like.

:clap

[pbonsalb]

As far as the Mason bar goes, do you think its worth it to go with aluminum over steel?

The worth it is only for looks and weight savings. Mason will tell you the aluminum bar is not as strong as the steel bar. He will also tell you either are stronger than you need for a street car.

Here is a link to a European car article on its project Z4 Coupe. Lap times decreased from 100 seconds to 98 seconds with no other changes than a strut brace.

http://www.europeancarweb.com/tuned/epcp_0709_project_z4m/index.html

I don't think there is any discussion of hinged versus non hinged, though. A strut brace with any flexibility, looseness or ability to rotate or move in any direction would certainly seem to me to be at a disadvantage over a fixed brace. Even the defenders of the hinged brace agree that a fixed brace like the Mason brace is an excellent choice.

[99MPower]

Holy crap your car is insane!

$$$ ?

hahaha.. thanks, I like it :redspot