Stick vs. Auto

[sleeeper]

Will we see the death of the manual tranny?

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=656470

[5050punk]

Unfortunately, I think we will see the death of the stick eventually. At some point the ratio of manuals to autos sold is going to be so low, that it will no longer be cost effective to develop two transmissions.

[webdesigner]

I'll still never drive a regular automatic (using the word "drive" here loosely, I really mean steer). Shift paddles? Sure.

[deathwarden5]

Probably not the death. But auto's will take over eventually. Right now you pay about $1000 extra for an auto. Maybe in the future, with standards being produced even less, they may come as an extra charge.

There are very few exceptions to where I would buy an auto. A truck or 6/7 series would probably be the only ones.

[bigdog68]

In the USA we are auto happy, but the rest of the world is still has a higher percentage of manuals. I realize what the article is saying but I do not think it will happen in our lifetime. The manual transmission is tried and true, we enthusiasts cling to it and rightly so. I have driven the BMW DCT and yeah it's ok but its just not involving enough, the only time I have shifted a car without a clutch and felt like OH YEAH, was on a Ferrari F430, but that is a whole other league! Long live cars with 3 pedals!

[weenstan]

It will die out eventually, unfortunately. DSG is godly.

[NMMR]

soon we wont even drive out own cars.. they will just take us where we tell them to.

[deathwarden5]

soon we wont even drive out own cars.. they will just take us where we tell them to.

And they'll all be Audi's, and instead of regular wheels, they'll have balls so we can go sideways, and spin in circles.

(iRobot)

[robisconfusedd]

manual will never die.

[Rakshas]

Eventually:

Torque Converter Automatics will die off, to be replaced by CVT's in economy cars and Dual Clutch systems in premiums. This will probably make up 90-95% of all cars sold. Manual transmissions will stick around in a limited capacity due to their lower manufacturing cost, and demand in certain applications.

[TopasBlau46]

Manuals won't ever completely die off. Sorry, but that won't happen in performance divisions either.

Until a transmission can read my mind, not ever will the manual transmission overcome the automatic transmission.

[mfratt]

I have an auto. I hate it. Even though its one of the best (if not the best) automatics I've ever driven, and steptronic mode allows for some control, there is always something missing from the driving experience. I drove a VW Rabbit the other day (with a 5-speed) and I can't lie; that thing was more fun than my automatic 330i.

Unfortunately, yes, I do think manuals are being phased out. Porsche now has the Dopplekluppung transmission (and I hear its the only option now in the C4S...is that true), Audi has done away with the manuals on the new A4's. It seems no one wants to shift anymore.

I think, though (hope might be the better word) that true sports cars will always have a stick shift as an option (BMW M Cars, P-Cars, etc), but I don't know. I hate driving an automatic now, I'd hate to have to be stuck with them the rest of my life if I ever want to own a new car :(

[ballplayer7373]

I don't think the manual transmission will ever be phased out, especially in performance division cars, the traditional stick may be phased out though to be replaced with true SMGs and clutchless manuals such as the Ferrari F1 transmission. An automatic gearbox will never perform the same as a strictly driver controlled one.

[shaeff]

In Soviet Russia, transmission shifts YOU.

[mryakan]

In Soviet Russia, transmission shifts YOU.
:rofl2 I could visualize the accent too.

[AlkalineOm3n]

I've got to make sure that whenever I have children, that once they hit 16 all they're doing is learning manual. Those of us that have the ability to drive stick are a dying breed. Maybe someday we'll be an asset to society.

[UtorVita]

In the USA we are auto happy, but the rest of the world is still has a higher percentage of manuals. I realize what the article is saying but I do not think it will happen in our lifetime. The manual transmission is tried and true, we enthusiasts cling to it and rightly so. I have driven the BMW DCT and yeah it's ok but its just not involving enough, the only time I have shifted a car without a clutch and felt like OH YEAH, was on a Ferrari F430, but that is a whole other league! Long live cars with 3 pedals!

I have friends that have visted Europe, mainly Italy, and they've said its 98% manual trans.


It will die out eventually, unfortunately. DSG is godly.

Sure, DSG is lightning fast and sometimes a blast to drive, but its boring. There is literally no involvement minus your little fingers bouncing off paddles F1 style. Except, F1 cars are true manuals. The manual trans will never die. It just won't. There will always be a demand, no matter how small. Companies will most likely end up charging extra for a manual trans rather than an automatic.

[paulmer]

I wish my E32 was a stick ;(

[Mitch]

I'll pay a premium for a manual, if it comes to it.

[M0nK3y]

I think is lower priced (non-sport cars) the automatic will dominate the field.......

But I still think Stick will be a standard for the more popular sport cars

[jibaholic101]

it will never fully go away, but will become rarer in the states. if you look in most all cars in europe, they are all stick shift. here in america, where everyone is lazy, they started doing things like SMG, EGEAR, F1 transmission because people are too lazy. Ferrari started the whole paddle shift craze because nouveau riche types wanted to own a ferrari but didnt know how to drive stick, huge demand was created. ferrari made it, and soon everyone adopted it. stick is still the best way to go

[Amir@AvusAutosport]

In Soviet Russia, transmission shifts YOU.
:rofl reminded me of the simpsons "in mother russia car drives you"

[Stealthauto]

soon we wont even drive out own cars.. they will just take us where we tell them to.

Lol.. So true!~ The future has a lot in store.

[tiFreak]

if manual transmissions become phased out, I will seriously not buy a new car, I had a choice between a 99 Subaru Impreza in decent shape with an auto, and a 97 Subaru Impreza with more rust than solid metal and a stick, guess which one I chose? :shifty

[qidm67]

As long as we don't use GTR transmission, we'll be fine, :stickoutt

[bdifc]

Sounds to me like most of you are comparing your current ride vs the automatic equivalent.

You need to start considering the facts:

The new "automatic" transmissions shift faster than you ever could and get better gas mileage.

Perhaps you should all reserve judgment until you experience some of these new autos.

I am.

[tiFreak]

maybe they perform better but I'd still rather shift myself

[HiTheNameIsBj]

:rofl reminded me of the simpsons "in mother russia car drives you"

Family Guy. In mother Russia road forks you!

[rhe30]

you guys are all talking about doomsday...manual will never die!

atleast i wont let it

[midduke]

there will be neither auto or manual in the future, we will have robot companions that will transform into sweeeet ass cars (most likely bimmers). We than will tell them where to take us, sit back and enjoy the ride..........ok maybe i have watched transformers one to many times :(

[E36BMW3series]

I know a guy who used to race cars, he is an absolute animal with a stick. He shifts so damn fast it is crazy. To make a long story short he traded in his new e92 Alpine White M3 for a Blue one with the new SMG or whatever they are calling it now. I think its cool to have paddle shifters, it makes it easier to shift and take turns. The automatically rev match on downshifts seamlessly and IMO would make the driving experience more enjoyable. I am just learning the manual gearbox and often wish I had SMG. I am the first person in my family to have a Manual and my dad said he wouldn't want a manual even though he can drive one with ease. I wanted a manual for preformance and reliabilty over anything. If theses new systems can shift faster than you can and engage in a way that is as efficent or more efficent, why not go with them? There are obious advantages over manuals from autos, but the SMG in his M5 that he used to have was amazing!

[Dukedude0017]

I think it'll die. The ratio of enthusiasts to normal drivers is very little.

[RascalKing]

I drive an auto
Soon to do a manual swap.
I dont mind it, but i dont prefer it

[frey328is]

auto=car drives you
manual=you drive the car

here in kansas i would say over 95% of the cars i see are auto...personally i wouldnt drive anything but a manual but i think most people just dont care, a car is a way to get from point A to point B

i also get really confused when i come up to a stop in autos, sometimes i will push in with my left foot and grab the shifter then look around and ask myself "what do i do now?" haha

[Amir@AvusAutosport]

There is no arguing that the SMG/DCT is faster in shifting and better for driving around the track and performance driving. It will shift faster, downshift perfectly, allow you to keep you hands on the wheel, and most importantly reduce the amount of movements and work you have to do in the car. They're also more comfortable since you can set it to auto and let it work it drive itself.

To be honest I just want a straight cut true sequential transmission with paddle shifters. I couldn't care less about the auto mode. i just love the sound of straight cut gears and the feel of a sequential. It's half the fun of riding bikes.


As long as we don't use GTR transmission, we'll be fine, :stickoutt

Don't worry your 200hp to the wheels won't hurt that tranny

[sniper101]

Phase out I dought, however I could see a company making them available only on Sport type models (like GT, SRT, M . . .). I highly dought European makers will do this, the manual is more cost effective there.

[Aarodynamics]

DSG will win out over Manuals in the end. I'm personally glad that it will happen, but I still hope that manuals are an option for the rest of my life on sports cars. The clutch pedal is orgasmic :)

[shaeff]

No clutch, no care.

[jessejames]

No clutch, no care.

+1 - the rest of the world is with us, go to europe and try counting autos
I lived in europe for almost a year and it was a rarity to see an automatic transmission, usually only US brands
luckily europe is the same place where my favorite automotive brands are manufactured, so... :evil2

[Raoul]

I'd rather eat worms than drive an automatic.

[oldymcoldington]

Living in a city has changed my mind about auto's. So much easier than constantly changing gears in bumper to bumper traffic. It's fun to get out to the counties and actually enjoy the driving and shifting experience, but inside the city I'd have to go with an automatic for a DD

[M633CSi]

The first thing I do after I get my 633Csi to a good condition is a tranny swap. Auto sucks. I remember my grandpa taught me how to drive stick when I was 7 or 8 and I was sitting in his lada 2103 learning about where each gear is and everything.

[edhchoe]

automatic cars test my patience. Does the kickdown cause any kind of damage to the transmission? Would prefer DSG or SMG to a slushbox..

[FLYINV]

Having a stick makes our car's harder to steal...
There was a newspaper article last year about a car thief who broke into a manual and couldn't drive it! lol



Two US car thieves failed to make their getaway - because the car they had just stolen had a manual transmission.
The teenagers armed with a gun approached a man outside a pizza restaurant in the US state of Georgia and stole his wallet and the keys to his Honda Accord.
Once they got inside the car, however, they could not start it because it had 'stick shift', according to an employee of the pizza restaurant.
Advertisement

'The kid was just sitting in the car trying to start it but he had no idea what to do. He looked dumbfounded. The only thing he had going was the radio,' said the witness.
While the thief was trying to start the car, restaurant employees called the police who arrived and caught the teenagers as they tried to escape into nearby woods.
Unlike many parts of the world, the majority of cars in the United States are automatic and thus many drivers are unfamiliar with the challenges of a manual transmission.


From:http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0620/manual.html (http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0620/manual.html)


Over here in OZ its even worse than in the US, BMW doesn't even offer any sedan's with manual transmission now bar the M3.
The turbo Audi A4 still comes with a manual transmission though, might get one of those one day

[LAWLence]

There really is no reason to have a clutch anymore, but until I can actually afford a car with enough power to justify having an automatic clutch system, I can live with this transition.

[sprintman]

Auto = gay.

[TopasBlau46]

Auto = gay.

That's mature :rolleyes

[Toxic0n]

The first thing I do after I get my 633Csi to a good condition is a tranny swap. Auto sucks. I remember my grandpa taught me how to drive stick when I was 7 or 8 and I was sitting in his lada 2103 learning about where each gear is and everything.

Haha, I learned to drive stick on a Lada 2108 when I was around 10 years old. The thing didn't even have a tach, you shifted gears by sound and the speed the car was at.
http://www.ladaparts.ru/russian/img/2108.jpg

[DrewDude320i]

Maybe in the US - but it seems to me that the vast majority of cars in europe are stick shift. the stick will survive just fine as long as there are countries outside of the lazy bastards in Suburbans here in the US.

[FLYINV]

Auto = gay.


That's mature :rolleyes

Maybe he was saying auto's are good becasue they're gay. For him gay could have a positive connotation, who are we to judge :)

[paulmer]

The new "automatic" transmissions shift faster than you ever could and get better gas mileage.Sure, they might shift "faster", but for automatics, how does it know when you want to up/downshift..I know DSG does not have that problem, but personally, to have DSG would mean to have a new car..and to be honest...DO NOT WANT

[Alexandar]

yeah dsg will most certainly take over manual, there have been many things in the world that people said they would hold on to.. which they have and is now worth 100 times more then it was back in the day.

I drove stick 8 times before I ended my training, and a year later of my automatic I took the test on a stick.. didnt stall it once nor did I myshift or anything like that, I'm proud to know how to drive a manual, alot more control of your car, but I think the automatic is much more reliable and safe,


1 question, Can you overrev your car if you downshift from 2 to 1 gear? (your at 6.5krpm and you are going to shift up to 3rd gear and miss it and hit the first gear (6.5k redline and about 7250 max))
arnt there some saftey switches that prevent that from happening?

[tiFreak]

Haha, I learned to drive stick on a Lada 2108 when I was around 10 years old. The thing didn't even have a tach, you shifted gears by sound and the speed the car was at.
http://www.ladaparts.ru/russian/img/2108.jpg

needs a drop :shifty

[joeking1978]

Will we see the death of the manual tranny?

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=656470

I know I'm coming in about a week late on this... but I went to 3 BMW dealerships within 30 miles of Naples and could not find ONE 135i 6mt on a lot anywhere. I found a couple 128's... :rolleyes ...and a 1 135 with absolutely NOTHING on it (no sport, no premium... bare bones)... but that was it.

This was out of about 10-15 being on each lot.


Most of it is because of the demographic in my area though...

[joeking1978]

Haha, I learned to drive stick on a Lada 2108 when I was around 10 years old. The thing didn't even have a tach, you shifted gears by sound and the speed the car was at.
http://www.ladaparts.ru/russian/img/2108.jpg

:lol

I actually learned on this bad boy!!! (1989 Subaru Justy)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3178/2325653400_1e6dbd143e.jpg?v=0

it was actually kind of fun... it was like an oversized go-kart!

[kingrayer]

manual transmission is better than auto in everyway

[trudnick]

+1 to kingrayer

The control you have with a manual can never be matched by anything the engineers can develop. I'm not looking to get into the 6MT/SMG issue that has been beat to death but there is nothing better than a clutch pedal ;).

[andrewmacc]

I refuse to let my car shift my gears for me.

[tiFreak]

manual transmission is better than auto in everyway

qfmft :buttrock

[abradic]

I haven't driven these new clutchless manuals/automatics, but say you were to buy an E60 M5. Would you rather have a 6 speed manual or 7 speed smg? It seems like with these paddle shifts now, you get the manual control with the trans doing the clutch work for you.

[95325i]

Living in a city has changed my mind about auto's. So much easier than constantly changing gears in bumper to bumper traffic. It's fun to get out to the counties and actually enjoy the driving and shifting experience, but inside the city I'd have to go with an automatic for a DD

I agree with you I had a manual car that I was using as an every day car and getting stuck in traffic sucks with a manual. Manual is great as fun car if you live in an area that has alot of congestion.


Maybe in the US - but it seems to me that the vast majority of cars in europe are stick shift. the stick will survive just fine as long as there are countries outside of the lazy bastards in Suburbans here in the US.

As long as Europe still has a market for Manual they will still be sold in the US.

My first driving lession was in my father 1969 corvair with a 4sp manual. I learned to drive on the street in my 1989 Z24 coupe with almost 200,000 miles on it.

[TopasBlau46]

I'm not retarded, so no, I don't like my car shifting for me.

[HOT DAMN]

damn, i love using my left foot

[Bastiaan23]

Manual is just so much more fun!

[ETAction]

Probably not the death. But auto's will take over eventually. Right now you pay about $1000 extra for an auto. Maybe in the future, with standards being produced even less, they may come as an extra charge.

There are very few exceptions to where I would buy an auto. A truck or 6/7 series would probably be the only ones.


I agree. I have had 12 cars (3 bimmers) and I'm 21 years old and have never owned an automatic.