Feeler: Stebro Group Buy

[jeffcfp1]

Just throwing this out here. Upon reviewing the recent comments on the customer service posts on Stebro, it seems as if the owners of these systems are quite happy - once they get them, and that perhaps its the shipping that is the real problem. I had the absolute pleasure of hearing a stebro system this past w/e on a slightly moded non-M sixer with high flow cats. It was really something else - perfect IMO. Mean, but not too loud as I understand BB/Triflow is. And, apparently, the Supersprint system needs some significant fab to fit.

Perhaps we could get some pricing from Stebro on 10 plus units and then maybe even figure out shipping together to the states via freight and then dispersing from there. We could also try to exercise some leverage with payment terms to get some control in the process given what would be a good size order.

Anyone interested? See poll.

Dan was quick to reply to my inquiry. Preliminary
Prices:

Cat Models, M6 & 635 Reg. $1250, 5 $975 ea . 10 $750 US $
non- cat Reg. $1450 5 $1175 10 $895 US$

[JayM]

I'm not sure I'm in the market right now, but I live about half a mile from Stebro. I could walk over and have a talk with them if you want.

[smaglik]

i check interested...but it really want more info too...how much we talkin about? also, my car is stock...what improvements will i see, besides an improved exhaust note?

[Rick in Denver]

I've been thinking about a performance exhaust for my 6, but I'd have to hear what it would sound like first before I could make a decision.

[FRANCESCO LMF]

i was going to buy one on ebay was close to 1100 or make best offer, what is a good price for them, and my car 2 is stock so iwas not sure what it could do 4 it as far as performance and sound ?

[Roku35]

I'm not sure I'm in the market right now, but I live about half a mile from Stebro. I could walk over and have a talk with them if you want.

Jay,
Please go talk to them and let them know that they have to improve their delivery times (or at least be honest on a solid delivery date) I've gotten the two week estimate, three times now. Approaching on two months for shipping (I am in Hawaii, but even the boat takes two weeks).

Also, I do want another for my latest 6er acquisition, but the wait is killing me!

Carl

[jeffcfp1]

Guys - this is just a feeler of interest. I do not have a handle on price other than my belief that he selss them for 1300 or so for euro and just under 1000 for US - I once bid on ebay with a counter to his buy it now and I think he countered my 850 with like 940 - prior to the greenback's slide.

As for sound, there is a clip on their site (or link to 635 clip) off his ebay ads. However, upon hearing the system live Sunday, that clip does it no justice.

George might you be willing to supply us with a sound clip?

[Mike323i]

I assume also that we're talking about E28 based cars, not pre-82 E12 based cars?

[jeffcfp1]

Thanks

[JayM]

Jay,
Please go talk to them and let them know that they have to improve their delivery times (or at least be honest on a solid delivery date) I've gotten the two week estimate, three times now. Approaching on two months for shipping (I am in Hawaii, but even the boat takes two weeks).

Also, I do want another for my latest 6er acquisition, but the wait is killing me!

Carl

Carl,

Much as I'd like to harrass them over their customer service issues, I think it wouldn't be productive.

You aren't the only guy who has that complaint. In fact, it's more the norm than the exception. They are notorious for delayed deliveries, and they simply can't grasp the talent for properly estimating delivery time.

They are a small shop, and likely priortize their production on what creates the most profit. The advice I've received from locals who have dealt with them is to never pay up front. Of course, that isn't really an option for most.

They produce a great product, but they're lousy businessmen. The only reason they stay in business is the great product continues to be in demand.

[jeffcfp1]

Being a small shop, I would expect that with an order for 10 units that I could leverage final payment, i.e. our rules. That being said, I welcome responses from any of you that are interested if we can firm up terms - I can then go back to them with some leverage to negotiate such.

[Layne]

Wow, they knock off 500 bucks? That should give you a clue about how overpriced they are. $750 is pretty fair, but I'm probably just going to make my own out of pre made mandrel bends, cut and tig welded together.

[pino635csi]

I am defiantly In if we can do that Price

[jeffcfp1]

I am negotiating aggressively with Dan and am having some very good success. He is very responsive and I believe that through leverage of a group and accountability with holdback on funds that this could work. At this point we are looking at 50% down and production done w/i two weeks with balance due at that time. I hope to soon be able to put up a formal group buy post on group buy threads, as well as further updates here.

[FernandoBunster]

Is this the actual manufacturer or the reseller? If it's the reseller why not buy directly from the factory with this kind of quantity?

[jeffcfp1]

He is a reasonably small shop in Canada specializing in high-end european autos.

Here is a link to a sound clip of an M3 as well as some Ferrari's and Porches and his site
http://www.stebro.net/html/Default.aspx?Controls=Controls/Fx/NewsView.ascx&ID=16


http://www.stebro.net/html/Default.aspx?PageMenuID=1275

I think you all will be quite satisfied with what I am putting together, including payment terms of 50/50, with what I envision will be a 10% holdback until documentation of shipping, etc., with a two week manufacturing process.

[CandyManChris]

I am definitely interested! I live in Halifax, Nova Scotia, so I could just drive over to Quebec to pick mine up :) Maybe they could install it for me too ;)

[detroit635csi]

750 is a killer deal... damn... im a maybe, when is this all going to take place?

[Greg330Ci]

I may be interested in a non-cat system for a Euro M635csi, but I am unclear if the quantity discount kicks in when the total order reaches 10 reagrdless of the model, or if each individual type of system must reach 10. Thanks

[JayM]

I am definitely interested! I live in Halifax, Nova Scotia, so I could just drive over to Quebec to pick mine up :) Maybe they could install it for me too ;)

They are a bit further away than that. You up for a 16 hour drive?:D

They're on the outskirts of Ottawa.

[Alpine6And7]

There is no "I want it but no moneyz for it..." Option

[pino635csi]

Just wondering if there is any new news

[TEZA]

I could be interested but I have a couple of questions.

1) Is the system just Cat back or do they have a configuration that bolts up to headers with no Cat?

2) What is the pipe size? Stock euro is about 51mm or 2" OD.

3) Are the exhaust pipe bends mandrel bends or cheap swaged bends?
Mandrel bends gives you the full pipe diameter in the bends whereas swaged bends on a 2" pipe will only give you about 1 3/4" dia in the bends.

4) For what is is worth the stock BMW exhaust for US and euros are all mandrel bends. Cheap after market exhausts are swaged bends.

I would hope that Stebro makes mandrel bends for all the high end Ferraris and Lambos, etc...but you never know...some of those high end car owners just buy stuff without checking specifications and of course someone else installs it.

[CandyManChris]

They are a bit further away than that. You up for a 16 hour drive?:D

They're on the outskirts of Ottawa.

Yeah, I JUST noticed that from their website. 16 Hours is EVEN BETTER! I think I have some ex-girlfriends in that area that I can pay a visit/stock ;) I have a couple of buds that would love the make that trip. Test the cars before and after installation performance.

[jeffcfp1]

Quick Update and couple of requests. Spoke to the person who ran the GB for Miller on E28 Board. He suggested a few things. One was to check out Mario Langston Vintage Motorsports, as he has made a cat system. However, its been a week, and haven't heard from him. Also, in dealing with shipping, we will have to WAIT to get freight through US Customs - example, my wheels took 6 weeks from Germany. Dan will guarantee manufacter and shipping time, and has agreed to a 10% holdback till shipping were to be documented. As you can see above, we could use more M car purchasers. As I am not active on Bigcoupe, can someone get a notice up as to what we are working on over there (can't find password). Finally, I manage $$$ for a living, so as you can probably imagine, I am flat out. I have not worked out logistics on payment etc. Again, bare with me, anyone who wants to help would be appreciated. Dan did come back to me interested in where we stand, so with the leverage of a number of buyers, and a slow economy, this will be run to very good buyer terms. i.e. 50% down, manufacter in two weeks, 40% balance due, perhaps me or one of us could hold the 10% or if there is a banker here in an escrow account - Stebro gets final after documentation of shipping. Perhaps Jay would be able to stop in and monitor progress once this gets going as he lives close to Strebro. Please, all feel free to share thoughts concerns etc., particularly prior purchases of his product including fitment.

[TEZA]

I would still like the answers to pipe diameters used and mandrel or swaged bends before making a commitment.

[TEZA]

I would still like a reply to my questions of pipe diameters and mandrel or swaged bends before I make a commitment.

[jeffcfp1]

Hi Teza. I forwarded your questions to Dan and will post reply upon reciept. In all due respect, if you read my most recent post as I am spearheading this for everyone's benefit, I have a life and a business to run under extreme circumstances at this time so please respect such and exercise some patience. Once this is formal, which will take some time it will be moved to the group buy section.

We do have enough to proceed. If anyone wants to take this over to move this along you are welcome to.

[87M6 Chris]

Jeff, we appreciate your efforts very much!
And if you happen upon my RRSP's bleeding in some corner, can you send me what's left of them?
If I had saved it all in a shoe box under my bed I would have more than I do now.
Thanks,
Chris

[rodger]

Ditto. Thanks for all your efforts.
I've been lookin at stebro for a long time now and refuse to miss this group buy.
Especially at this price! I almost sucked it up and bought one on ebay for over 1k :o

[jeffcfp1]

My correspondence yesterday with Dan:

Also, fitment seems to be a concern. Do you have a prototype that could be test fited on a sixer as there is a member in your area. Several guys indicated that they needed to make mods to fit.
A: Yes, we can fit a system locally.
Finally, someone provided feedback indicating an import tax or something of the like.
A: There is no import taxes applicable.


1) Is the system just Cat back or do they have a configuration that bolts up to headers with no Cat?
A: the system is cat back on the US models and it bolts up to the manifolds on the Euro models.


2) What is the pipe size? Stock euro is about 51mm or 2" OD.
A: Pipe size is 2.25"


3) Are the exhaust pipe bends mandrel bends or cheap swaged bends?
A: we will use mandrel bends.
Mandrel bends gives you the full pipe diameter in the bends whereas swaged bends on a 2" pipe will only give you about 1 3/4" dia in the bends.


4) For what is is worth the stock BMW exhaust for US and euros are all mandrel bends. Cheap after market exhausts are swaged bends.

I would hope that Stebro makes mandrel bends for all the high end Ferraris and Lambos, etc...but you never know...some of those high end

[TEZA]

Jeff, Stebro gave all the right answers for the questions I had and posted earlier.

Maybe Stebro is making some nice little changes for this group buy. I have personally looked at other Stebro e24 BMW exhausts in the past and noted they were made with swaged bends and only 2" diameter pipe.

So Dan's answers about mandrel bends and 2.25 dia pipe would be far superior to other Stebro exhausts I have seen. This makes the Stebro group buy more attractive.

[chevale]

Just posted (http://bigcoupe.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=52466) GP info in BigCoupe.

I would be interested in Stebro as well, depends from time frame of GP. I'd also like to have cat-less system for US-car. I don't think Stebro will do custom work on this, so could someone confirm that euro exhaust will not fit to US=spec car with cat removed?

[jeffcfp1]

Teza, that is great feedback. Also, it would be T304 vs. 409 stainless, which I believe is superior as well. All, I just checked the GB forum and there are some rules that the moderators want members to follow, which include giving sponsors a crack at GB's. So, I have just requested from Eisenmann and one of the other exhaust vendors (stuck for name) their interests in such. Upon reply I'll get permission to go ahead and place this up formally. Is anyone near Stebro or willing to drive there to have a system custom fit for their car. This would assure perfect (or near) fitment for all. Any questions, post, pm or email me.

[wkohler]

I purchased an E28 535i system from them and I had it in two days from the time of shipment. Granted, I never actually requested one be sent to me, but once I received it, I purchased it.

The only fitment issue I had was with the factory cat. On the factory cat one side has a 3-bolt flange, while the other has a flared pipe. On the Stebro resonator section, both were flared. That was really the only issue. Everything lined up as it should have, with only minor massaging with a prybar - standard procedure when fitting aftermarket exhausts. It really is a phenomenal system. The best part is pulling into a parking space and setting off a car alarm. It's not particularly loud, but music with that M30. :) Mandrel bent pipe, too!

Good luck to all that go in on the group buy. You'll love it!

[jeffcfp1]

For those asking about potential hp gains, Dan Stebro claimed about 8 hp rear wheels on a 635 with addition of his system. He'll be faxing me dyno of new model M3 that picked up 11 from addition of his cat back. I asked about sound (as some feel too loud and I'm an "old" guy) and he will be including some sort of adjustable baffle in the chrome tips, apparently similar to Remus.

[Greg330Ci]

First thanks to Jeff for spearheading this group buy. I am interested in a non-cat system for my euro M635, would just like to see final pricing and payment terms etc. Personally I would prefer to pay with American Express (they do accept it)so there is some recourse if something unforseen happens with the order or delivery. Would this be an option rather than cash up front?

[chevale]

Found youtube video with Stebro on 633:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsV41rqbUz8
For some reason it says here that video is NLA but when you'll go directly on youtube it's there.

[jeffcfp1]

I heard the system live, the video doesn't come close to doing it any justice. I am sure he'll accept amex. PM me for more info. I am still waiting for the forum's admininstrator to reply to my request to post formally. I personally ordered mine today - just can't wait and the window for driving here in New England will be closing soon.

[Taylor Marshall]

the window for driving here in New England will be closing soon.


Yeah, here too ......sigh.

http://mydrive.roadfly.com/photos/pic.php?u=65692NBQmL&i=12388

[jeffcfp1]

guys, email me jeffbrown@ids.net or pm for further details. GB is open and mentioned on GB forums as well.

[becarefulwhatdo]

Stebro uses 409 crushed bent piping. they do not have a mandrel bender. if you want mandrel bent pipes they will fit together pieces of 304 piping.

The mufflers are 304 brushed finished (polished if you ask) but its not standard practice. Do a search on X5world.com, good rule of thumb if its cheaply priced there is a reason for it.

The sound is the best in the business bar none.....if you want 409 crushed bent pipes with 304 brushed finished at a good price thats what you will get...whoever is doing the group buy SAY ON TOP OF THEM. They can produce a good system but do your customer service homework......

Recently 3 of the 5 man production crew walked out due to this kind of stuff.......I am not saying dont I am saying STAY ON TOP OF THEM and pay in a way you can get your money back without any issues.....

[jeffcfp1]

Thanks for providing us with this info. We put together a strong contract with holdback and have a member visiting the site to inspect before the second payment will be made. As you are apparently new to this forum, and you are not identifying yourself, could you please confirm if you are a former employee, purchaser of their product, or one of the people involved with the new startup. Hopefully you will agree that identifying yourself is only fair for you to be taken any more than half seriously. Please elaborate, and feel free to pm me. Also, happy to speak with you. Thanks.

BTW, I just logged in here to add the following clip from the e28 board:

"Good luck with that Stebro system. Hooked mine to a cat
system manufactured by Mario Langston at CSR. Awesome!!"

Awaiting a reply from Stebro on your comments and will keep all posted.

[wkohler]

I had no issues with their customer service. I received my system promptly and Dan was very easy to deal with and was back with me right away.

[jeffcfp1]

Funny how Mr. Becareful what you do disappeared. Funny how he lives in the town where Stebro is located.. as well as the reply:
We will supply 304 mandrel bends as promised. He is referring to our old production methods. We did release an employee who was causing problems but our production crew is intact. Jeffrey, we are having the bends produced for us by a outsourced machine.
Can you please tell me where this originated? I am sure it is the former employee....

[wkohler]

My system was all mandrel bent as well. Forgot to add that.

[pino635csi]

Has anyone recieved there's yet?


Pino

[jeffcfp1]

Jay M has graciously agreed to check on things and will be visiting their facility Thursday. As of last week, Stebro had sent out the pipes for mandrel bends as well as flanges for diamond cutting. He indicated that the mufflers and resonators have been manufactered. I'll have more details on Friday.

[skywalkr]

Just got word of this deal. I have an '88 M6. And I'd like an exhaust system without the Cat. Is it too late to buy in?
Lou

[jeffcfp1]

Its not too late. e-mail or pm me your name address to ship to, tel number and include model and year in email and they will contact you for payment. As we are getting near end of this and systems should be close to complete (Jay will verify) might be fair for full payment vs. half down.

[pino635csi]

Sounds great Jeff, Thanks again for all the work!

[skywalkr]

Jeff, did you not receive my email concerning the exhaust purchase?

Lou

[jeffcfp1]

Hey Luther, I replied on the 13th and just forwarded the message to you. Jeff

[skywalkr]

Jeff,

Still didn't receive the info.
Might not be going to the correct address. Should be skywalkr@netscape.com

Luther

[jeffcfp1]

You should have it now, perhaps your profile has wrong email?

[87M6 Chris]

Jeff, any word from Jay M about the progress at Stebro?
Thanks,
Chris

[Rick in Denver]

Well, I just checked my bank statement and it looks like the exhaust is complete and on the way. Can anyone confirm?

[jeffcfp1]

Guys, just put up a new thread. Rich, how can your bank statement show its on its way???? Have you paid anymore than 400 deposit per the statement? he expects to ship by week's end, early next week at latest. I organized this thing and mine isn't on its way yet! Maybe its a god out there watching over you, cause I know he aint been watch'in over them Broncos...

[Rick in Denver]

My bank statement doesn't show that it's on the way. I was guessing that it might have been based on the fact that I put down the initial payment and another was taken out of my account today...

[jeffcfp1]

Stebro is fixing asap, acknowledging it was an error. No one should have been charged yet. Haven't spoke yet by he called and emailed me. I've been tied up all day.