spark plug removal

[smaglik]

Alright...I feel like a complete douche. I am attempting to change my spark plugs, wires, cap, and rotor. I am struggling getting the plugs out.

I have tried using the 11/16 spark plug socket recommended by bentley (this one came in my sears tool kit), as well as the spark plug removal tool in the tool kit. For both of these, I seem to get a good grip on the plug, and i turn it counter-clockwise, and it turns, but with a fair amount of resistance. I can turn it a few turns, and don't seem to have any success. I am afraid to put too much torque into it, as I don't want to break something if I am doing this incorrectly.

I have changed plugs in a car once before (Honda Accord), and don't recall having this type of issue.

Any tips?

[HayekFan]

It should only take about a quarter turn to loosen them. After that they should turn out by hand with little resistance. It's probably a total of 10 or 15 complete turns to get them out.

How long have the plugs been in there? Maybe if they're old their threads are rusty and that's causing the resistance. Or maybe a PO put some kind of anti-seize goop on the threads, or thread lock compound? Worst case would be they were overtightened and the aluminum threads in the head were distorted.

I don't see that you have any choice but to just keep backing them out.

Are all the plugs hard to is it just one or two?

[smaglik]

I tried the far left one, and then the one just in from that (1-2, I believe), and both gave me the same issue. They havent been in there that long, maybe 2 years. I am going through a total turn up (wires, cap, and rotor are original) prior to sharkfest, trying to squeeze my mileage up a bit...

I will take the rubber gasket out of my spark plug socket, and see if that helps. It will give me a better feel as far as contact with the plug.

[HayekFan]

Another thought. You're using a spark plug socket, not just a regular socket, correct? The spark plug sockets I've used had a rubber insert that grabs the tip of the plug and holds in the socket. It works well but it also requires that you push the socket onto the plug firmly until it fully seats. If you don't, the socket won't engage the plug. It'll turn and there will be some resistance (the resistance of the rubber insert against the plug) but the plug itself won't turn. To seat it fully, press the socket onto the plug, turning the socket as you push. You'll know when it's there.

[HayekFan]

I will take the rubber gasket (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=14182410&posted=1#) out of my spark plug socket, and see if that helps. It will give me a better feel as far as contact with the plug.Yep, I'll bet that gets it. You probably weren't fully on the plug.

[Alpinewhite 633]

I used the sparkplug wrench that came with the tools in the trunk tool set. What are you guys using? Did you lose your tools along the way? Forgot that you had them?

AW 633

[smaglik]

i was able to make it work. po musta put somethin on the threads.

[jbd5015]

ugh, nothing sillier than putting thread locker on the plugs. The best thing is a little bit of motor oil. I was fearing that the threads had separated from the plugs and you were just spinnin the plugs in there, then you would have to get the threads out somehow, good thing you got them out!!

-Jeff

[HayekFan]

i was able to make it work. po musta put somethin on the threads.Those PO's -- they're always up to no good!

[smaglik]

surprised me though. this guy really had his stuff together...for the most part.

another question. i am going to replace my valve cover gasket while i am in there...its seeping a bit. anything special about this?

[Alpine6And7]

^Adjust your valves and do the dual chamber Oil Sprayer

[smaglik]

what is the dual chamber oil sprayer?

[detroit635csi]

plugs shouldnt be difficult to take out.... i pulled all mine and cleaned them in the parking lot of a winery in north carolina if i remember right :)

right jeff?

but i did have one that was "spinning" with out coming out... i'll be looking into fixing this next time im in virginia... besides... i have the wrong plugs all together..

if the plug is spining but not coming out you may have a problem with the threads in the tubes. but be careful when toying around trying to removed these that you dont send metal shavings down into the motor.... i reccomend that after you remedy this problem you promptly flush the system and change the oil to be safe...

werd

[smaglik]

never mind about the dual chamber...

http://www.cscoupe.org/tech/spray_bar_fix/70590.html

[GWL]

Sometimes, (especially with a slightly too long plug) over a long period of time, carbon can build up in the end threads. It can make for a scary withdrawal of the affected plug. When you are Lucky, the carbons breaks out without jamming up the threads and striping the head, when you are not:mad.

[HayekFan]

i am going to replace my valve cover gasket while i am in there...its seeping a bit. anything special about this?Nothing super special - just even tension on the nuts to give a uniform seal across the cover. The Bentley book shows a tightening pattern where you do the middle nuts first and the outside nuts last. Torque is 80 in-lbs. And of course if you've got the cover off it's an ideal time to adjust the valves, as mentioned a couple posts back.

[CW6er]

Use a gasket dressing on the standard fiber gasket to make sure there are no vacuum leaks, the valve cover can be a big source of vacuum leaks without realizing it. Something like Permatex High Tack 98H Gasket Sealant

As hayekfan says, tighen the cover nuts evenly as follows:
With the oil filler cap to your left, tighten the valve cover bolts, starting with 1 to 8 in the following order, I generally tighten them all finger tight and then to 40 in/lbs on the first pass and then to 80 in/lbs using the pattern below both times:
8 1 4 6
5 3 2 7

[jbd5015]

plugs shouldnt be difficult to take out.... i pulled all mine and cleaned them in the parking lot of a winery in north carolina if i remember right :)

right jeff?

but i did have one that was "spinning" with out coming out... i'll be looking into fixing this next time im in virginia... besides... i have the wrong plugs all together..

if the plug is spining but not coming out you may have a problem with the threads in the tubes. but be careful when toying around trying to removed these that you dont send metal shavings down into the motor.... i reccomend that after you remedy this problem you promptly flush the system and change the oil to be safe...

werd

dont forget burning your hands cause the engine was only off for like 20 mins before tackling that, and wash it all down with a burger king stop for a hamburger topped with a stuffed baked potato...and mas consumption of alcohol after that...man, what a day, cant wait to do it again!!!

-Jeff

[dm635]

never mind about the dual chamber...

http://www.cscoupe.org/tech/spray_bar_fix/70590.html

I've done this. Don't forget the updated banjo bolts.

[M.Rad.]

I've had similar problems removing / installing my plugs. I use a sparkplug socket, but it almost seems like there is not quite enough clearance between the plug "tunnel" and the socket. The socket only engages a small section of the plug body and must be absolutely straight, or else it feels like the plug is just spinning. It's not really, all you are feeling is the socket against the "tunnel" wall.
Since my toolkit came with zilch, I can only guess that the factory tool has thinner walls?

As for coatings, I have always used a small amount of anti-seize compound (MOLYBDENUM DI-SULFIDE), especially with aluminum heads and have not encountered any binding. Is there disagreement about doing this?

Regards,
M.R.

[HayekFan]

My only disagreement with anti-seize compound is it seems like it could make changing the plugs a little more work. Rather than being able to just spin them in & out effortlessly by hand, maybe there'd be enough material in the threads to bind things up some. I like the idea of those threads staying clean.

[Layne]

If the threads are 'clean' there's water and oxygen in the spaces, which leads to the plugs becoming permanently frozen to the head. Anti-seize is the holy grail of sparkplug thread lubricants and should be used without exception.

[smaglik]

I used a little bit of motor oil on the threads of the plugs.

[HayekFan]

If the threads are 'clean' there's water and oxygen in the spaces, which leads to the plugs becoming permanently frozen to the head. Anti-seize is the holy grail of sparkplug thread lubricants and should be used without exception.By clean I don't mean surgically clean - I mean free of gunk that will drag on the threads and make slower work of threading them in, even if the gunk is nominally a "lubricant". If you're worried about oxidation the best bet is to use a dab of something that will actually make the threading easier, something lightweight like motor oil. That's what the Bentley book recommends. Save the goop for the 02 sensor.

[smaglik]

speaking of the O2 sensor....recommended replacement interval is 50,000 mi. mine is original. do most people follow that 50,000 interval? how much do they run?

[HayekFan]

Don't know about the service interval, but if it's original it's probably due for a change. A worn out 02 sensor can affect your gas mileage and even rob a little power. My car perked up noticeably when I replaced mine.

Price depends on whether yours is the early one wire type or the later self-heating type with I think three wires. It seems like the one wire type is around $60 but google can tell you for sure. If you want to save money the thing to do is buy a universal type which is usually half or a third of the price. The catch is it just comes with a short pigtail so you have to crimp or solder on your old connector, but this is no biggie.

[smaglik]

Ok. I might do that before the road trip. Do I need the special tool I see advertised to remove it, or can I make do with regular tools?

[HayekFan]

You'll need one of those special sockets if you plan to use a ratchet on it, but I was able to get to mine with a wrench. My car is a 633, which has the sensor on the exhaust manifold rather than back near the cat like yours (probably) is. That might change something, but most likely yours is gettable with a wrench too.

[smaglik]

Cool. I ordered a generic one. For 50$ difference, I can splice a few wires. My time ain't that valuable.

[CW6er]

On the '87, the O2 sensor is in the exhaust pipe just before the Cat under the car about where the driver's seat is inside. It takes a 22mm wrench but a 7/8" box end wrench works just as well. Simply unplug the wire and feed it through the box end. I found that it worked well with the offset pointing down. The little shield is just clipped on the O2 sensor and just pulls off.

The length of the wire on the O2 sensor changed during the production of the '87, some wires have the plug under a metal box screwed to the floorboard next to the O2 sensor, and on others the plug is on the rear intake manifold brace next to the Ref and speed sensors, look and varify which one you have before you order.

If you go the universal route, I wouldn't use the single wire unheated one on this car. The early one's are up on the down pipe close to the exhaust manifold, where is is good and hot, but on the later cars I imagine that there is a reason why they went to the heated sensor since is is so far from the manifold.

Check the prices at SteveHaygood.com and even the local AutoZone.