View Full Version : New top mount turbo E36
Hey,
Just a teaser pic of our car, I will post real pics after this weekend and I will update the thread. We just got the car running tonight and this weekend will be spent tuning the megasquirt.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d56/brohr01/race_car/noname.jpg
E36 TURBO
08-31-2008, 12:26 AM
:eek:
Shuasha
08-31-2008, 12:26 AM
Drag strip only, right? Even with a screen, you'll suck a bug thought there in the first 5 mins. :)
5mall5nail5
08-31-2008, 12:28 AM
:confused
n24tg
08-31-2008, 12:39 AM
That has to be loud as crap.
bmwperson
08-31-2008, 12:41 AM
nice chop litterally
the exhaust manifold looks hilarious
got psi
08-31-2008, 12:45 AM
Nice wipers, just put a glove on them. LOL ///J.T.///
antonch
08-31-2008, 12:47 AM
More pics please!
a32guy
08-31-2008, 01:04 AM
Meh, shoulda kept the intercooler outside the body as well.
rcstings
08-31-2008, 02:41 AM
wow....subscribed for updates.
highboostingm3
08-31-2008, 02:46 AM
Bro, if I had just taken a big bite of steak I would be dead right now. :rofl:
PathosRx
08-31-2008, 02:58 AM
You have just created the first example of an "open uppipe." :shifty
jszy25
08-31-2008, 03:31 AM
I think this could lead to awesomeness...and I can't wait.
More Info! More Pics!
jfdmas
08-31-2008, 03:36 AM
hmmm, im always open for new things. I wanna see more pics.
themadhatter
08-31-2008, 04:01 AM
you need a little flap on the exhaust like they have on semi trucks.
SiGmA
08-31-2008, 04:09 AM
Interesting. Not my thing, but interesting.
The car was built for the 2008 Grassroots Motorsport Challenge that is coming up in less than 30 days. For those who dont know you must build a car to compete in an auto-x, drag race and concours event all with a $2008 budget including the car. Although the turbo and exhaust sticking out of the hood is unusual and goofy looking it should attract some serious attention and be good for some points in the concours event. The car is purpose built for that event on a very tight budget so doing things like this is a cheap way to get some extra points.
For the turbo manifold we took the stock obd2 headers, flipped them over, cut off the collector portions and welded on a 2.5 inch pipe across the top going to a mandrel bend in the front and up to the turbo. Total cost for the manifold was maybe $20 and that is why it was done like that. It will not last long and it has many other issues but it is perfect for the event we are going to. The exhaust is not that loud, the turbo does a nice job of muffling the exhaust, but at the same time I have not driven the car and put it under any load. Im sure this car is going to make all sorts of noise. The wastegate is located on the bottom side of the manifold and dumps straight out of the wastegate just behind the motor mount arm. I know some of you do not like the design but given what the car was built for im sure it work out very well. For the others that are excited about the build, thanks, it was a 8 months of hard work to get the car to this point.
Other work done to the car as follows:
Shaved all 4 door handles
Flat black paint job
Ride height adjusters at all 4 corners with eibach springs
Megasquirt is controlling the engine
Interior has been gutted
All excess wiring has been removed, only what is needed has ben left
Race seat has been installed
and of course the turbo kit
milKt
08-31-2008, 10:19 AM
Good times ahead.
Great job!!
jon volk
08-31-2008, 10:51 AM
That exhaust is begging for anti-lag use....
im just sayin'
That exhaust is begging for anti-lag use....
im just sayin'
As soon as I wire up the clutch switch to the megasquirt trust me we will be running both anti-lag and flat shift. The flames should be awesome.
blazing
08-31-2008, 10:59 AM
Looks like fun,do you have a build thread or more pics?
I haven't not been over to the GRM board in awhile guess I will have to pop over.
highboostingm3
08-31-2008, 11:08 AM
The car was built for the 2008 Grassroots Motorsport Challenge that is coming up in less than 30 days. For those who dont know you must build a car to compete in an auto-x, drag race and concours event all with a $2008 budget including the car. Although the turbo and exhaust sticking out of the hood is unusual and goofy looking it should attract some serious attention and be good for some points in the concours event. The car is purpose built for that event on a very tight budget so doing things like this is a cheap way to get some extra points.
For the turbo manifold we took the stock obd2 headers, flipped them over, cut off the collector portions and welded on a 2.5 inch pipe across the top going to a mandrel bend in the front and up to the turbo. Total cost for the manifold was maybe $20 and that is why it was done like that. It will not last long and it has many other issues but it is perfect for the event we are going to. The exhaust is not that loud, the turbo does a nice job of muffling the exhaust, but at the same time I have not driven the car and put it under any load. Im sure this car is going to make all sorts of noise. The wastegate is located on the bottom side of the manifold and dumps straight out of the wastegate just behind the motor mount arm. I know some of you do not like the design but given what the car was built for im sure it work out very well. For the others that are excited about the build, thanks, it was a 8 months of hard work to get the car to this point.
Other work done to the car as follows:
Shaved all 4 door handles
Flat black paint job
Ride height adjusters at all 4 corners with eibach springs
Megasquirt is controlling the engine
Interior has been gutted
All excess wiring has been removed, only what is needed has ben left
Race seat has been installed
and of course the turbo kit
Oh hell yeah this is going to be an AWESOME project! I can't wait to see vids of this! :eyecrazy :redspot
n24tg
08-31-2008, 12:37 PM
Is it a 318?
And you better hope it doesn't rain. :)
Good luck. This will be the first GRM 200x comp I'm not attending in 4 years. :wave
Small update with a couple of slightly better pics.
Ive put about 20 miles on the turbo setup and have gotten it tuned upto 7-8 psi. The first time hitting boost a pipe popped off of the intercooler, had to pull over and fix that. Car pulls great and the turbo spools very quickly for its size. Its a holset H1C off of a dodge ram cummins engine. Im seeing boost around 3500rpm at 60-70% throttle, hitting 7psi under 3900rpm.
Here are a couple more pics, i will go out latter on and get some better ones.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d56/brohr01/race_car/DSC01350.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d56/brohr01/race_car/DSC01352.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d56/brohr01/race_car/DSC01353.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d56/brohr01/race_car/DSC01356.jpg
LexdiamonNYC
08-31-2008, 03:37 PM
that looks like a fun little project!!!
5mall5nail5
08-31-2008, 03:47 PM
Its a cool thing you did... but it looks rather ridiculous and its super impractical :( The H1C isn't that large, and you can probably get your horsepower out of a T3/T04 turbo on a bottom mount which makes me wonder why its really out the hood
Its a cool thing you did... but it looks rather ridiculous and its super impractical :( The H1C isn't that large, and you can probably get your horsepower out of a T3/T04 turbo on a bottom mount which makes me wonder why its really out the hood
ridiculous and super impractical?
I dont think so, what cant i do with a car that is setup like this? Drive in the rain? sure i can, it will just have water injection making the tune safer. The exhaust is no louder than any other camaro that is driving around in this area. I guess its all about what you are comfortable calling and driving a street car. For me this is just like any other car, just because a turbo is sticking out of the hood does not make it impractical for me.
The winner of the competition from last year was a twin turbo corvette with both turbos sticking through the hood. As far as power goes and turbo size, i agree with you, the h1c isnt a huge turbo but it is a good sized turbo for the power goals. I am not a fan of small turbos, if you want a quickly spooling turbo then run an anti-lag system or spray nitrous. Why build a turbo system with a turbo that is going to limit your power down the line. You should know all about this with your build, im a big fan of all of your choices.
5mall5nail5
08-31-2008, 04:06 PM
ridiculous and super impractical?
I dont think so, what cant i do with a car that is setup like this? Drive in the rain? sure i can, it will just have water injection making the tune safer. The exhaust is no louder than any other camaro that is driving around in this area. I guess its all about what you are comfortable calling and driving a street car. For me this is just like any other car, just because a turbo is sticking out of the hood does not make it impractical for me.
The winner of the competition from last year was a twin turbo corvette with both turbos sticking through the hood. As far as power goes and turbo size, i agree with you, the h1c isnt a huge turbo but it is a good sized turbo for the power goals. I am not a fan of small turbos, if you want a quickly spooling turbo then run an anti-lag system or spray nitrous. Why build a turbo system with a turbo that is going to limit your power down the line. You should know all about this with your build, im a big fan of all of your choices.
I am not a fan of small turbos either but friends of mine have E30's with my turbo and keep it in the engine bay. Did you really just say that it'll be "water injection" if it rains? Whoooooa baby I think you're confused.
bennyfizzle
08-31-2008, 04:06 PM
Could you possibly pm me or post some details about your paint? Looks AWESOME if it's a diy job...like what brand/color did you use? prep? how did you paint it? equipment used? etc..thanks! looks like a blast!
Could you possibly pm me or post some details about your paint? Looks AWESOME if it's a diy job...like what brand/color did you use? prep? how did you paint it? equipment used? etc..thanks! looks like a blast!
Thanks, we spent a ton of time on the body work and i guess it shows for the most part. The car is very dirty in the pics and has oil all over it.
Having said that, we used an epoxy primer. We got it at a local auto body supply right off of the shelf, no color or tint was added to the primer. After all of the bondo work we sanded the entire body for good adhesion and mixed up the paint as per the instructions. After a few coats we wet sanded the car to remove all orange peel. We then mixed up the same primer but thinned it out quite a bit with an excess of reducer, that made the paint lay on a lot smoother and gave us the finish we were looking for.
So, yes the entire car is in primer and that is going to be our final finish for the event. We went that route due to the low cost involved. If you are interested in a finish like this i would suggest going to talk with a shop about it, you can get a much better finish using a urethane primer and adding a flattening agent to whatever finish paint you wanted. We would have done that but with the budget we had the epoxy primer was the best bet.
Its a cool thing you did... but it looks rather ridiculous and its super impractical :( The H1C isn't that large, and you can probably get your horsepower out of a T3/T04 turbo on a bottom mount which makes me wonder why its really out the hood
I am not a fan of small turbos either but friends of mine have E30's with my turbo and keep it in the engine bay. Did you really just say that it'll be "water injection" if it rains? Whoooooa baby I think you're confused.
Hate hate hate. :nono An e30 is not an e36. A GRM challenge car is not a street car. He's not saying it's the best for everyone, he's saying he did it this way for a particular purpose and that's how it's gonna be.
A large part of the GRM challenge is style points, also. I think the whole look is badass. :thumbup:
bennyfizzle
08-31-2008, 04:19 PM
Looks fantastic!
5mall5nail5
08-31-2008, 04:22 PM
Hate hate hate. :nono An e30 is not an e36. A GRM challenge car is not a street car. He's not saying it's the best for everyone, he's saying he did it this way for a particular purpose and that's how it's gonna be.
A large part of the GRM challenge is style points, also. I think the whole look is badass. :thumbup:
I didn't see him post that it was a GRM car - ok, for that effect fine have the turbo out the hood. But do you really think the "if it rains then its water injected.." makes sense?
And quit with the hate hate hate BS plz. Also - since its a GRM project it'd have been easier and cheaper to put the turbo down low, no?
Now I see - Cameron posted the details of this dudes car. Sorry for assuming the OP would have posted what it was.
M52 POWER!
08-31-2008, 04:24 PM
I respect it for being different and unique, though if this car is a DD I think it IS impractical/ridiculous. I hope nothing hits the compressor wheel while driving and nobody vandalizes it either.
5mall5nail5
08-31-2008, 04:25 PM
I respect it for being different and unique, though if this car is a DD I think it IS impractical/ridiculous. I hope nothing hits the compressor wheel while driving and nobody vandalizes it either.
Its not - its a GRM project and we're supposed to know that, duh. Cameron posted this dudes information - why didn't you see it?!
bennyfizzle
08-31-2008, 04:25 PM
I didn't see him post that it was a GRM car - ok, for that effect fine have the turbo out the hood. But do you really think the "if it rains then its water injected.." makes sense?
And quit with the hate hate hate BS plz. Also - since its a GRM project it'd have been easier and cheaper to put the turbo down low, no?
Now I see - Cameron posted the details of this dudes car. Sorry for assuming the OP would have posted what it was.
I don't think they could have done that in the way they decided to use the obdII mani's as the turbo manifold
5mall5nail5
08-31-2008, 04:26 PM
I don't think they could have done that in the way they decided to use the obdII mani's as the turbo manifold
i see that now - i made the mistake of thinking it was the OPs car he intended to drive around. Didn't realize it was a project from GRM.
But do you really think the "if it rains then its water injected.." makes sense?
No, but I don't really care.
For a street car, with some sort of non-zero budget, a bottom mount with a cast manifold is the way to fly. For a GRM car, I think this is badass. :buttrock
My street car minus interior plus a set of R-comps would be under 2k. I wonder if registration is still open... :ponder :devillook
5mall5nail5
08-31-2008, 04:29 PM
Since he doesn't care I would have made the exhaust a little longer. I have helped on a car where we did a stack like that out of the hood (with a flapper too) and it coats the windshield in oil.
///M3Vader4dr
08-31-2008, 04:31 PM
just because a turbo is sticking out of the hood does not make it impractical
sig worthy
bmwperson
08-31-2008, 04:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8pkru82g2E
MRMARSH
08-31-2008, 04:41 PM
^^^ ha thats pretty crazy
BadBoostedBmwM3
08-31-2008, 05:06 PM
Yea, and i have a question... will bug sucked into a turbo be a problem?
5mall5nail5
08-31-2008, 05:09 PM
Yea, and i have a question... will bug sucked into a turbo be a problem?
Anything, fluid or solid, hitting an impeller spinning 100,000+ rpm is a problem.
Some more pictures
Our custom race seat that we recovered
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d56/brohr01/race_car/DSC01358.jpg
Shaved all 4 door handles
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d56/brohr01/race_car/DSC01360.jpg
Engine bay pics
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d56/brohr01/race_car/DSC01361.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d56/brohr01/race_car/DSC01362.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d56/brohr01/race_car/DSC01366.jpg
We are using the 11s container as a catch can and the air pump is run in reverse for crankcase evacuation. Just something else for people to hate that has been done in total grassroots motorsports fashion.
I love the catch can / vent setup. :buttrock
Following in the footsteps of the last top-mount turbo flat black BMW at the GRM comp...
http://www.wreckracing.com/uploads/gallery-images/DSC_0288.preview.jpg
Anything, fluid or solid, hitting an impeller spinning 100,000+ rpm is a problem.
Fluids are not a big problem. Not short-term atleast. Draw through carbs used to be relatively common. The big issue with pre-turbo water injection lies in the intercooler.
LexdiamonNYC
08-31-2008, 05:38 PM
great project!!! don't let a few idiots deter you from posting pix of your project..........keep em coming!!!
techno550
08-31-2008, 05:41 PM
Looks like a well executed GRM car. Love the paint.
I'm suprised Jon isn't all about this build. Its cheap, its using MS, stuff has been cut and painted, etc..
Anything, fluid or solid, hitting an impeller spinning 100,000+ rpm is a problem.
:rolleyes
air is a fluid.
turbojunky
08-31-2008, 05:47 PM
:eyecrazy
rpm620
08-31-2008, 05:48 PM
this is a awsome GRM project love it. and that video is crazy.. supprised you did nto get pulled for that.
bennyfizzle
08-31-2008, 05:49 PM
any reason why you didnt just grab an m50 intake mani from a junkyard for $50? give you a little more power on the REAL cheap.
I dig it :rofl
Shuasha
08-31-2008, 05:52 PM
Silly question.. with the GRM stuff, do you have to have a receipt for everything or can you throw in stuff that's sitting in your garage? Seems like fun, but someone could surely cheat easily.
Silly question.. with the GRM stuff, do you have to have a receipt for everything or can you throw in stuff that's sitting in your garage? Seems like fun, but someone could surely cheat easily.
Nobody checks reciepts, but you do have to account for your spending on the car. Cheating would obviously be easy, but it can be obvious also. The bottom line is that it's an event that generates an article for a magazine. If the editors of GRM like it, it's good to go.
bim533mer
08-31-2008, 06:21 PM
love the car this is just like my 533 maid for fun
SiGmA
08-31-2008, 06:42 PM
Interesting, can you take a sound clip? :p
Now is the car practical?
I have added a screen over the intake to the compressor side of the turbo. The only thing getting past that is maybe some sand, but i dont live on a beech so i dont think ill have an issue. Yes the life of the turbo is going to be reduced, but who cares, the car is built for a 1 weekend event. Any amount of time that the car still runs past that is awesome.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d56/brohr01/race_car/DSC01368.jpg
bennyfizzle
08-31-2008, 06:58 PM
good lord it's beautiful :rofl
JB6712
08-31-2008, 07:00 PM
nice build plus the vid is sikk!! i like the blue flame that starts and then the burst at shifts... awesome...
nice build plus the vid is sikk!! i like the blue flame that starts and then the burst at shifts... awesome...
fyi, that video is not of this car. Im not sure whos car it is. But hopefully once we up the boost i will be able to provide you all with a similar video.
bennyfizzle
08-31-2008, 07:04 PM
nice build plus the vid is sikk!! i like the blue flame that starts and then the burst at shifts... awesome...
That's not the op's car...just saying.
turbo325ii
08-31-2008, 07:19 PM
Subscribed! I Think its a sick project! It does look ridiculous/ super gnarly mean. Reminds me of this build on e30tech. :)
http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58045&page=30 Go Yoshi!
ricerocket86
08-31-2008, 07:32 PM
wow...I think I just shat myself....
highboostingm3
08-31-2008, 07:35 PM
That last pic is straight pimp. Wut up Playa? Pop some antilag and the panties be a droppin'! :boobies :bj
5mall5nail5
08-31-2008, 07:52 PM
:rolleyes
air is a fluid.
Sure is - but air won't typically thermal shock a cast aluminum compressor wheel.
I have pictures of a compressor wheel with water injection ahead of it, somewhere - it's looks sand blasted and then the guy running it had it explode from becoming brittle and was sucked into his FC.
Stop rolling your eyes - I am not an idiot. You try way too hard.
owwwch
08-31-2008, 08:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8pkru82g2E
insane looking at night.. love it
Geno325is
08-31-2008, 09:18 PM
lets see some vids of that bad boy, wonder how loud it is... Do your neighbors love you?
highboostingm3
08-31-2008, 09:30 PM
We are using the 11s container as a catch can and the air pump is run in reverse for crankcase evacuation. Just something else for people to hate that has been done in total grassroots motorsports fashion.
:rofl That is seriously sick! I love it! thanks for the pics. OMG I can't wait to see this car go on video! This is awesome! GRM rocks! :buttrock
M52 POWER!
08-31-2008, 10:01 PM
I like the DIY pump/catch can!
savage217
08-31-2008, 10:04 PM
That thing is badass:buttrock:evil2:alright
///M3Augy
08-31-2008, 10:05 PM
Hahaha That is great.
card counter
08-31-2008, 10:10 PM
I like it, keep rocking.Im gonna build a turbo beater out all my spare parts and it will probally be the funnest car I have.
swollix
08-31-2008, 10:17 PM
Can you make a detailed parts/cost list?
DADx2
08-31-2008, 10:18 PM
Please trim the hood around your turbo oil line. It appears to be right up against it, and surely the engine rocks enough to cause contact.
Thanks for the pics and vids...... want to see more.....and good luck at GRM competition.
Thanks to everyone for the support. I have put over 60 miles on the car today and it is holding together just fine so far. I have the tune pretty close to where i want it, i still need to tweek a few things and mess around with timing some before we up the boost.
Videos will hopefully be posted later on this week once the car is at a more respectable power level and a few more finishing touches are added.
I will post a parts breakdown and budget after the competition is over, I wasnt even going to reveal the car to the internet before the competition.
This car is a blast to drive and it gets all sorts of looks from everyone, everyone rubber necks to get a quick glance and what is sticking through the hood. The car gets numerous compliments at stop lights and plenty of attention from people wanting to race.
///M3Vader4dr
08-31-2008, 10:26 PM
vid is sweet
kendogg
08-31-2008, 10:32 PM
any reason why you didnt just grab an m50 intake mani from a junkyard for $50? give you a little more power on the REAL cheap.
I dig it :rofl
Yes, at a loss of spool, and low-end torque. The car spools late enough as it is (3900 rpm per the OP). Thats not great for an autox car, but could work, depending on the gearing/course layout.
jfdmas
08-31-2008, 10:39 PM
i like everything so far but it would be just as easy to turn the up pipe 180deg to down and rout it to the ground or back into the exhaust. Then it would be alot more street friendly. I personally love the turbo sticking out the hood, not so much the exhuast.
nothing like having cold air all the time.
kendogg
08-31-2008, 10:40 PM
I've actually always wanted to do an exhaust out the hood on something. Never thought of it on an inline moor, but on some kind of V8 beater, it would be pimp.
Yes, at a loss of spool, and low-end torque. The car spools late enough as it is (3900 rpm per the OP). Thats not great for an autox car, but could work, depending on the gearing/course layout.
We do have an M50 intake sitting in the garage, we will put it on after we have everything else done and see how the car reacts with it. You are right though, I think we need the m52 intake for the low end tq, the turbo will provide the top end. If the car was N/A then the M50 intake would be on it for sure.
Im not worried about the turbo spooling for the auto-x, judging from previous GRM events the course is short and quick. I dont think power is going to be needed for that event, its all about the handling.
Having taken the car out a few more times today i am finding that the turbo spools up much sooner than the 3900 i was seeing in the earlier datalogs and that was only at part throttle. A full throttle run will spool the turbo much sooner.
Yes, we could have routed the exhaust down and around the exhaust mani and had it dump with a turndown under the car somewhere, but this is much more funny.
Shuasha
08-31-2008, 10:51 PM
i like everything so far but it would be just as easy to turn the up pipe 180deg to down and rout it to the ground or back into the exhaust. Then it would be alot more street friendly. I personally love the turbo sticking out the hood, not so much the exhuast.
nothing like having cold air all the time.
Gotta get the points for style!!
5mall5nail5
08-31-2008, 11:48 PM
We do have an M50 intake sitting in the garage, we will put it on after we have everything else done and see how the car reacts with it. You are right though, I think we need the m52 intake for the low end tq, the turbo will provide the top end. If the car was N/A then the M50 intake would be on it for sure.
If your spool is that late then there's nothing to lose by going to an M50 manifold. Sucks to tune the car and then switch intake manifolds and have to retune the car. The turbo won't provide the top end - that's the whole point of the M50 manifold - it flows better up high.
jfdmas
09-01-2008, 12:19 AM
Gotta get the points for style!!
ughh, i keep forgeting.lol maybe after the contest.:redspot
thats pretty fuckin awesome
Schnell325
09-01-2008, 04:08 AM
^^^ stole my line.
9kFever
09-01-2008, 04:58 AM
haha, wtf. normally when I think top mount I think sleeper. Not so in this case.
Drag strip only, right? Even with a screen, you'll suck a bug thought there in the first 5 mins. :)
There are many cars running hood cut setups with no issues. Hell i know of a GN with a TT LT1 and both turbo's are sticking through the hood like his.
:buttrock
rogerdodgerM50
09-01-2008, 05:27 PM
That just brought back memories from my RX-7 Turbo between shifts , blowing flames and popping. : ) awesome , :alright:redspot . I cant wait to install my turbo now. Thanks for the motivation to get me back on my feet.
5mall5nail5
09-01-2008, 06:04 PM
That just brought back memories from my RX-7 Turbo between shifts , blowing flames and popping. : ) awesome , :alright:redspot . I cant wait to install my turbo now. Thanks for the motivation to get me back on my feet.
If I had a nickel for every RX7 I've seen with the rear bumper on fire.... :buttrock
MrT0m
09-01-2008, 08:50 PM
i recently talked to my buddy working with the GA tech guys on their GRM car.
;) you guys are inventive.
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