my BMW takes too much gas, how does the WATER4GAS kit sound?

[THEhomelessONE]

http://www.water4gas.com/2books.htm

i think its 80% scam, but idk, does anyone know anyone who has one that works?

10-15mpg hwy just aint cuttin it

[kornkid8600]

you mean 100% scam

[geezerman402]

A website that poorly designed has to be a scam.

[M3ZT]

A website that poorly designed has to be a scam.

+1

[Rakshas]

http://www.water4gas.com/2books.htm

i think its 80% scam, but idk, does anyone know anyone who has one that works?

10-15mpg hwy just aint cuttin it

Sell it and buy something else, you're not going to better than 15mpg with an M30.

[marsvolta318i]

http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Stories/001.1/
Here is a pretty good explanation of how they get the hydrogen.

I have spent hours and hours on the net reading up on this and it has still not convinced me to try it. Besides my car in not running right now and I don't want to mess with my dad's commuter.

The water for gas model is a very easy and cheap DIY that would cost no more than $15 , jar, wires, stainless steal wire, screws, hoses, fuse, another jar to act as a bubbler and that's it I think.

Give it a try and let us know. :-)

Here is a guy's post on instructables.com it is way more advanced and supposedly it works. ???????
http://www.instructables.com/id/Hydroxy-Gas-Generator/


I hope this doesn't become a thread of chemistry controversy, there are other sites for that.

[NickR23]

For those of you who dont know this, you dont actually burn water, you extract the hydrogen from the water and burn that in your car along with the regular gas. My dad, grandpa, and uncle all tried this and apparantly it works. While I can guarantee that you wont see eye popping numbers like they claim, you will see a few mpg increase.

Btw we also have a 78 chevy with a dual fuel carb, that can run completely on hydrogen (no gas at all), turn the valve and it switches to straight gas. Kind of a cool setup I think.

-Nick

[marsvolta318i]

For those of you who dont know this, you dont actually burn water, you extract the hydrogen from the water and burn that in your car along with the regular gas. My dad, grandpa, and uncle all tried this and apparantly it works. While I can guarantee that you wont see eye popping numbers like they claim, you will see a few mpg increase.

Btw we also have a 78 chevy with a dual fuel carb, that can run completely on hydrogen (no gas at all), turn the valve and it switches to straight gas. Kind of a cool setup I think.

-Nick

Do you have pictures, like I said I wanted to try but hadn't had the chance, I would love to see how they have it setup. Thanks

[NickR23]

Ill try and get some tomorrow, my grandpa has the cleanest setup, (and I think hes the only one actually using it right now), but Im not sure what time he gets home.

-Nick

[marsvolta318i]

Great thanks!!

[Eurotakeover]

Meh, dont complain about mpg you 318ers. Just get a civic or something as a dd...

[Bowler807]

It does work, however, the Water4Gas system does not deliver enough of the HHO to really do anything. I built one and discarded it. Read the following.

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapt10.html

I built the Smack's Booster and have it installed on my GMC crew cab. When my wife drives the truck to work she consistantly gets between 23 and 24 mpg where she used to get between 16 and 17. She drives 22 miles one way on mostly a 2 lane suburban road.

[Snork]

Would you like to buy my perpetual motion machine? My granpappy says it works and daggum that's good enough for me. I don't need no fancy conservation of energy book learnin'.

[beshannon]

I use Fiji water!

[Charlie]

http://www.water4gas.com/2books.htm

i think its 80% scam, but idk, does anyone know anyone who has one that works?

10-15mpg hwy just aint cuttin it

Try maintaining your car.

Get the car running decent before going to scam sites.

-Charlie

[THEhomelessONE]

thanks alot guys, i was surprised that it did work for a few people, even though its a few MPG, anything helps, looks simple enough

how are the e30 318is on gas? thinking of getting one of those and keeping the 7 as a backup car

but idk, i want to see nicks pics of his grandpa's setup

[burninator]

Would you like to buy my perpetual motion machine? My granpappy says it works and daggum that's good enough for me. I don't need no fancy conservation of energy book learnin'.
:rofl

[sonicpentatonic]

While this could, in theory, help boost your fuel economy, there are several problems I see right off the bat that make it not so feasible.

1) I can't see this system (or any system of a similar size and power) producing Hydrogen gas fast enough to feed your engine and make any appreciable difference.

2) The H-O bonds in water still need to be broken, and there is a certain energy barrier there that MUST be overcome. This energy barrier is static and un-avoidable. In general, H-O bonds are very strong and require a lot of energy to break them. This is impossible to get around. How this affects the system is that your battery needs to put out significantly more energy to the H2 gas generator (the jar of water with electrodes in it) in order to even produce ANY hydrogen gas. As a result, your alternator needs to work harder to keep the battery charged, which in turn places a greater load on your engine (more current draw from an alternator=more resistance in the alternator=more work required to keep the alternator spinning at the same rate as the engine), which in turn requires a greater output from your engine, which in turn REDUCES your fuel efficiency.


Those are the two glaring problems that I see right off the bat. This is without even delving into the safety issue of producing pure oxygen and hydrogen so close to an ignition source.

[ted13b]

Incredible! Sonicpentatonic is using actual science to refute internet science! It's great to see that the scientific method still exists in the world. You can't get something for nothing, and you can't create energy. To produce hydrogen, you must use an electric current produced by your alternator. The more current you need, the more load placed on your alternator, the more power taken from your engine, which then burns more fuel! It's a scam perpetuated by the people who sell the plans and kits, and by the people who built one and don't want to admit it did nothing.

[Dahlstrom]

:rofl

[pj95bmw]

It works! I have a friend with a hydrogen booster, it cleans out your motor and enhances the burn of the gasoline. Im on hho forums and read on there but dont have it hooked up yet. I made smacks booster. Its supposed to be the most effective. Ive read of 54 mpgs on a motorhome and 200 mpgs on a v8. Some guys run there car on all hho, but Im not sure how yet. its about the amount of boosters to make it run all on water. The first night I heard about this, I read until 4 am. good luck.

[Amir@AvusAutosport]

I put this on my millennium falcon and it works super good. I get 23 lightyears to the ounce of uranium

If you care that much about mileage buy an aveo

[pj95bmw]

It gets best mpgs after you drive around for awhile because it will clean out the motor, usually it double gas mileage.

[THEhomelessONE]

eh, im gonna keep the 7 in the garage for a backup car, dont like driving it every day, want to keep her safe, im going to get a ford f250 super duty 7.3l and a biodiesel kit, the bmw just isnt reliable enough either, and there is a bunch of parts that will need replacing soon, and i dont have the time

but thanks for all the replies guys, im still very interested in this, id love to stay in the 25mpg range

[Snork]

Nothing for saving gas like a ford f-250. You are one smart cookie. Also, fyi, an m30 should be getting 15/19 if you took care of it. I can't wait to see you calculate how much money you save buying another car. Maybe you'll break even in 12 years or so. Not like fixing your car costs less.

[marsvolta318i]

While this could, in theory, help boost your fuel economy, there are several problems I see right off the bat that make it not so feasible.

1) I can't see this system (or any system of a similar size and power) producing Hydrogen gas fast enough to feed your engine and make any appreciable difference.

2) The H-O bonds in water still need to be broken, and there is a certain energy barrier there that MUST be overcome. This energy barrier is static and un-avoidable. In general, H-O bonds are very strong and require a lot of energy to break them. This is impossible to get around. How this affects the system is that your battery needs to put out significantly more energy to the H2 gas generator (the jar of water with electrodes in it) in order to even produce ANY hydrogen gas. As a result, your alternator needs to work harder to keep the battery charged, which in turn places a greater load on your engine (more current draw from an alternator=more resistance in the alternator=more work required to keep the alternator spinning at the same rate as the engine), which in turn requires a greater output from your engine, which in turn REDUCES your fuel efficiency.


Those are the two glaring problems that I see right off the bat. This is without even delving into the safety issue of producing pure oxygen and hydrogen so close to an ignition source.

Not to bash on you or anything because I'm also skeptical about this, but I just want to throw something out there.

In this website, http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Stories/001.1/, the guy is splitting H2O with a 9V battery. So I don't think its that hard, I just think that maybe it's not enough hydrogen to help the MPG.

I have a theory also, if it can be called that. Mind you I only took Bio and Physics in HS and no Chem.

But my theory consists of finding an alternate source of energy to aide in the splitting of H2O.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Free-energy-Any-source-of-heat-Not-only-th/

Now this video shows a Peltier's Module being used to convert heat into energy. Our engines produce a huge amount of heat! Could we possible harness that heat and turn it into voltage using a Peltier's Module (or several of them)? The module needs to have heat on one side and cold on the other, maybe we can put them on the motor somewhere and then cool then with air by running a vent from the front of the car to where the modules are.

I don't know how much voltage is needed to split water or how much the peltiers modules can create. But if this somehow works, then already we are making our gas more efficient by not wasting the heat that was created by burning it in the first place.

Also the volts they produce depend on the difference of temperatures.

These modules when connected to a power source either get real hot or real cold. Could one of these potentially be installed in the intake somewhere to cool down the air?

Here they are in ebay, a bit pricy but maybe they can be put to good use and pay for themselves.

And no Im not trying to scam anybody.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gigantic-62mm-545-Watt-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Cooler_W0QQitemZ310078531544QQcmdZViewItem?hash=it em310078531544&_trkparms=39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A10|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

[THEhomelessONE]

Nothing for saving gas like a ford f-250. You are one smart cookie. Also, fyi, an m30 should be getting 15/19 if you took care of it. I can't wait to see you calculate how much money you save buying another car. Maybe you'll break even in 12 years or so. Not like fixing your car costs less.

biodiesel kit, and i want something that wont let me down, and the 7.3's have been known to be reliable

i dont think 15/19 is acceptable with a 3.4l inline 6 and only 180bhp, thats why i want to go diesel

its either an EG hatchback with a B16 for DD, or a cummins or powerstroke 7.3

the only problem with the EG is that i live in Richmond, ca.

not exactly a safe place when a few blocks down they dump dead bodies on the rail roads every few months?

cars are known to be stolen here, and hondas are top on the list

so im going to stick with the reliable pickup that i can use for pretty much everything

yea fixing it would be cheaper, but time isnt as cheap, i need something that wont let me down

[mfratt]

My friend is gonna put this in his '96 Sable. I look forward to seeing how it goes. He tried to talk me into putting it in my car. I laughed at him.

[marsvolta318i]

can anybody post pics of their setups??

[autocross97]

i may try this on my 90 f150 because its a pice and it fucking kills gass.

[sonicpentatonic]

Not to bash on you or anything because I'm also skeptical about this, but I just want to throw something out there.

In this website, http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Stories/001.1/, the guy is splitting H2O with a 9V battery. So I don't think its that hard, I just think that maybe it's not enough hydrogen to help the MPG.

I have a theory also, if it can be called that. Mind you I only took Bio and Physics in HS and no Chem.

But my theory consists of finding an alternate source of energy to aide in the splitting of H2O.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Free-energy-Any-source-of-heat-Not-only-th/

Now this video shows a Peltier's Module being used to convert heat into energy. Our engines produce a huge amount of heat! Could we possible harness that heat and turn it into voltage using a Peltier's Module (or several of them)? The module needs to have heat on one side and cold on the other, maybe we can put them on the motor somewhere and then cool then with air by running a vent from the front of the car to where the modules are.

I don't know how much voltage is needed to split water or how much the peltiers modules can create. But if this somehow works, then already we are making our gas more efficient by not wasting the heat that was created by burning it in the first place.

Also the volts they produce depend on the difference of temperatures.

These modules when connected to a power source either get real hot or real cold. Could one of these potentially be installed in the intake somewhere to cool down the air?

Here they are in ebay, a bit pricy but maybe they can be put to good use and pay for themselves.

And no Im not trying to scam anybody.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gigantic-62mm-545-Watt-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Cooler_W0QQitemZ310078531544QQcmdZViewItem?hash=it em310078531544&_trkparms=39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A10|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
you can absolutely split water with a 9V battery, but if you look at his demonstration, the amount of hydrogen produced is basically negligible. Notice I said that the problem lies with producing hydrogen gas in any appreciable quantities. The amount of hydrogen gas produced by his little 9V electrodes is probably on the order of a few milliliters per hour which would maybe be enough to squirt into one cylinder once for a little help in combustion.

To be somewhat feasible, you would need a system that produced at least 6 or 8 times that amount several thousand times per minute. You can see the logistics problem.

Hydrogen, while a very cool and promising source of alternative energy, is best utilized in a fuel cell. Regardless of how much hydrogen you produce, you are still fighting the inherent inefficiency of a combustion engine. The maximum theoretical efficiency (as determined thermodynamically) of a combustion engine is 50%, but the closest any of us will ever see in our commercially available products is on the order of about 25%.

[DMBSONG41]

A local station tested this product and others like it that claim to give you better gas mileage. A professor/engineer from Notre Dame University did the tests and stated that this product does NOT offer a noticeable difference in mpg. With the money to purchase and install this product you might as well just use that money to buy gas and put it in your tank, more miles per gallon using the money that way, rather than being down $XXX.XX with no noticeable difference.

[pj95bmw]

Nothing for saving gas like a ford f-250. You are one smart cookie.
That hilarious. HHo doesnt have damaging effects on the motor.:redspot

[THEhomelessONE]

lol im going to spend 5k on a civic hatchback with a b16 swap instead, my uncle gets their motors for 400 bux, and can do it in a few hours :D

[kinghawk]

BMW delete for the win!

[THEhomelessONE]

lol calm down, once im out of college, going for the e30 LS1 swap :D
still keeping the e23 too

and go to the meet on sunday, san jose, im bringing my grill speakers lol so we can play techno all day

[pj95bmw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6yRn4IAsrU&feature=related


Didnt I just see this car run off water? Arent there many more videos of people running there cars on water? Is there a Hydrogen 7 that uses the same method? Doesnt this video look old, like we should be running on water to save the enviroment but something or someone cover it up?

[pj95bmw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IztGZxtkoKQ&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl35HRBED_A&feature=related
The genius, His model is way more complicated than anyone elses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqMR-t7DGaY&feature=related

Don't blow yourself up, my friend took a lighter to the gas and the top exploded and smacked the ceiling of his garage. Ill post my setup when I get it running hopefully early next week.

[cabin]

:rofl

This thread is too much.

If it really worked as well as the cliams, why doesn't some well known manufacturer produce these kits? It's always some guy making this crap in his garage or selling you some BS books or documents. I can't wait to put a kit like this on my car and get 60 mpg. Take that oil companies!

[pj95bmw]

Stanley tried to mass produce the product, in 1996 he was convicted in court of fraud. His product worked and still works, he is gone now, killed for his idea, and so was the guy that invented a perpetual motion motor. That magnet motor sounds awesome btw. HHO enhances the burn of gasoline and adds horsepower and its like 120 octane. No one is going to make these vehicles, we cant depend on others, but we can get others to help with the project. Im on HHOforums.com.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zXya2gNyFc

[pj95bmw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCZ2cFKcqnc&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFs_7Go5dKU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBtMBW0N-F8

[THEhomelessONE]

pj95bmw- thankyou very much, glad to know it actually works, do you plan on installing one of these kits on your car anytime soon? like to know how the install goes

[pj95bmw]

I am planning on installing mine in my bmw this up coming week if my friend gets me the booster. I got him to build it for me. It should be relatively easy, it depends on how you want to hook it up. The injection can be installed only before the Mass air flow, or you can install a t-piece one route to the mas air flow and the other straight to the intake manifold. This helps for idle. One guy installed 1 boost went from 9 to 20ish, then installed a 2nd and went to 30ish then installed a 3rd and went to 50ish, then injected the hho into each port and got 79 mpgs! Must been a big rig or something.:alright

[THEhomelessONE]

nice, if you can get him to build me one too, ill hook you both up with $$$ lol
im so happy i might not have to retire my 7, sure the accord got 25-30mpg, but id much rather drive the 7mpg 7, bmw wont let you go that easy

but 79mpg, thats amazing, imagine a streetbike lol

[THEhomelessONE]

so id have to feed the HHO in the intake between the AFM and TB right?

if i put it before the AFM wont it make the car think im feeding it more air and also feed the car more fuel?

[Trackie]

If you want mileage get a 92-95 honda civic cx. 40mpg in city, almost 50mpg highway, and it will do 100mph+(did that) on the highway so cruising at 75 is a breeze. Only has 72hp but from my college years experience, I'm starting to realize that's all you really need.

[THEhomelessONE]

i am going to get an EG6, but im also going to do a B16 swap, still gets 30mpg

im hoping to find an EG siR, or one with atleast a sunroof, Hatchback only, i feel bad for abusing/driving my 7 everyday

lol how long did it take you to get to 100?

my bmw is faster than an 05 civic ex 2dr with spoon header, intake, and exhaust work? lol so i need another honda that will be just as fast, EG with a B16 sounds about right

[Snork]

Stanley tried to mass produce the product, in 1996 he was convicted in court of fraud. His product worked and still works, he is gone now, killed for his idea, and so was the guy that invented a perpetual motion motor. That magnet motor sounds awesome btw. HHO enhances the burn of gasoline and adds horsepower and its like 120 octane. No one is going to make these vehicles, we cant depend on others, but we can get others to help with the project. Im on HHOforums.com.

Are you actually a delusional conspiracy nut or are you just trolling? Perpetual motion motor indeed.

[pj95bmw]

Are you actually a delusional conspiracy nut or are you just trolling? Perpetual motion motor indeed.
Im not really into conspiracy, I just hate the oil company monopoly, because they can set what ever price they want. Arent they rich enough?

btw. I messed up a little bit, one line has to be injected before the throttle body and after the mass air flow sensor, and you can t a line off that to go to the throttle body. Your gas mileage may improve instantly, but after awhile your gas mileage will improve from the engine being cleaned out. I wouldnt buy any subscription or anything on it, just copy smack boosters design. Its free, let me know if you need me to help you find the design info.

[THEhomelessONE]

hmm, cool thanks, ill let you know

[pj95bmw]

hmm, cool thanks, ill let you know
Ill post my setup if I get it on tuesday. I was wondering about where to inject it, I wanted to inject it where the stock hoses go into the TB boot. But idk if thats the brake booster or for emissions.