5 speed should it start in gear no clutch pushed in?

[351wpwr]

Me again the now 4 day 1996 BMW 328ic owner. The car will start in gear. Is this normal? I can just get in and turn the key and it doesn't matter where the shifter is or the clutch. Ideas/thoughts? I read some posts and it looks as though there may not be one in this year at all. Weird.

[bmxludwig]

I can start mine without depressing the clutch, my buddy with his 97 m3 can't..... that doesn't help does it? lol

[randomy]

yea, it does that. Get in the habit of starting it in neutral and with the clutch and brake depressed as a fail over procedure should it be in gear. Maybe that is not necessary, but I have that habit, so maybe I'm just projecting.

[Arctikz]

well if i start my car in gear with the clutch un pressed, it will immediately die on me. I always use my park brake and put it in neutral... But when i got my tires put on and they parked it in the lot, they left it in 1st with no brake on so i started it up like always and it just jumped forward and died.

[bmwill831]

shouldnt you press the clutch anyway when your starting the car?how long have you been driving a stick?

[Arctikz]

i always do. unless your talking to the OP.

[randomy]

It should not have leaped on you then if you are pressing the cluth when you start it...and you say that is how you always start it..?


Arctikz[/U]"] i started it up like always and it just jumped forward and died.

[ttkid06]

leaving the car in gear and clutch pressed will still leap...happened to me before.

[bmwill831]

you must not have any clutch left then or something because when that clutch is pressed in, that suckers is in neutral regardless of where the shifter is and the car will not move

[SimonSingh]

When clutch is depressed, it doesn't matter what gear the car is in, it won't move... AT ALL.

When it's in any gear, it'll jump that way as the starter motor kicks in with the trans engaged.

Also, when leaving a 5speed parked, never leave it in gear, always put it in neutral, and apply the handbrake.

[ttkid06]

Also, when leaving a 5speed parked, never leave it in gear, always put it in neutral, and apply the handbrake.

hmm my folks tells me to leave it in gear on up-down hill roads.

[goingnowhere]

When clutch is depressed, it doesn't matter what gear the car is in, it won't move... AT ALL.

When it's in any gear, it'll jump that way as the starter motor kicks in with the trans engaged.

Also, when leaving a 5speed parked, never leave it in gear, always put it in neutral, and apply the handbrake.

+1

Unless on a hill, then in gear is ok.

[SimonSingh]

hmm my folks tells me to leave it in gear on up-down hill roads.


+1

Unless on a hill, then in gear is ok.

Never leave it in gear... When parking on a hill, turn your wheels inwards towards the curb - so if your handbrake fails, it'll just roll into the curb and stay there.

The reason to never leave it in gear, is if it's bumped or hit into when it's in gear, you'll have more problems than bodywork...

[ttkid06]

Never leave it in gear... When parking on a hill, turn your wheels inwards towards the curb - so if your handbrake fails, it'll just roll into the curb and stay there.

The reason to never leave it in gear, is if it's bumped or hit into when it's in gear, you'll have more problems than bodywork...

i dont live anywhere with up-down hill roads...but good to know not to leave it in gear. And i do know about turning the wheel thing.

[goingnowhere]

Never leave it in gear... When parking on a hill, turn your wheels inwards towards the curb - so if your handbrake fails, it'll just roll into the curb and stay there.

The reason to never leave it in gear, is if it's bumped or hit into when it's in gear, you'll have more problems than bodywork...

the dealers and mechanics leave it in gear...but ok.

[myblackcar]

shouldnt you press the clutch anyway when your starting the car?how long have you been driving a stick?

+1. Every car I have driven stalls when started in gear. In fact, that is why you should leave in gear when parked (like an extra brake). This almost sounds like it should be proven/disproven on Mythbusters.

[ttkid06]

+1. Every car I have driven stalls when started in gear. In fact, that is why you should leave in gear when parked (like an extra brake). This almost sounds like it should be proven/disproven on Mythbusters.

same here, car stalls almost everytime it's in gear. Sometimes it doesnt.

[kevinqjhps]

Sounds like a bad Neutral Safety Switch.

[nighthawk328i]

I doubt is a bad neutral safety switch. My car does it too, i don't think that 3 people here would just happen to have a bad neutral safety switch. And several of my friends who have e36's will start in neutral without the clutch pressed.

[Sclarpepplar]

there is a switch on the clutch petal lever,(under dash) that is normally open, this interrupts thwe starter motor circuit. When you depress the cluth, the switch contacts close it enables the starter circuit to complete, and the starter to crank. this was mandated in cars for safety reasons, i believe around mid 80's?

my car will not start unless you press the clutch in. basically if you remove the two contacts off the switch, and join them together...you will no longer need to press the clutch in to complete the starter motor circuit.

my guess is the PO has connected these two wires.

hope it helps.

-Corey

[ttkid06]

there is a switch on the clutch petal lever,(under dash) that is normally open, this interrupts thwe starter motor circuit. When you depress the cluth, the switch contacts close it enables the starter circuit to complete, and the starter to crank. this was mandated in cars for safety reasons, i believe around mid 80's?

my car will not start unless you press the clutch in. basically if you remove the two contacts off the switch, and join them together...you will no longer need to press the clutch in to complete the starter motor circuit.

my guess is the PO has connected these two wires.

hope it helps.

-Corey


good infos, i learned something new today. At first i was confuse how i didnt need to press the clutch to start. Cool!

[Arctikz]

No no no. It jumps forward after started when its parked in gear after i release the clutch pedal (i didnt know it was parked in gear). Im saying i always park and start the car in neutral. I just didnt notice it was in gear before starting since ive never had to deal with anyone driving my car before.


there is a switch on the clutch petal lever,(under dash) that is normally open, this interrupts thwe starter motor circuit. When you depress the cluth, the switch contacts close it enables the starter circuit to complete, and the starter to crank. this was mandated in cars for safety reasons, i believe around mid 80's?

my car will not start unless you press the clutch in. basically if you remove the two contacts off the switch, and join them together...you will no longer need to press the clutch in to complete the starter motor circuit.

my guess is the PO has connected these two wires.

hope it helps.

-Corey

Hey Corey,
You have a cool name...

-Cory

[DethManX]

It's normal, '96s are the last ones without the clutch start switch.

[jensklemp]

a lot of jdm cars (imports, ones made here probably require them now) come without clutch switches, mine on the other hand has two of them (found out when installing my alarm). So if you know your car and aren't dumb enough to leave it in gear what would be the problem?

[MParallel]

I can start mine without depressing the clutch, my buddy with his 97 m3 can't..... that doesn't help does it? lol

Correct.

BMW states:

(EWS II Update)
Beginning MY 1997 E31 and E36 vehicles with manual transmissions were updated to include a clutch
pedal position switch. The clutch switch signal is provided by a hall-effect sensor providing a high signal
when the clutch is depressed.

[SimonSingh]

the dealers and mechanics leave it in gear...but ok.

But dealers and mechanics aren't really at risk from getting hit by random moving cars are they?


+1. Every car I have driven stalls when started in gear. In fact, that is why you should leave in gear when parked (like an extra brake). This almost sounds like it should be proven/disproven on Mythbusters.

Of course it's going to stall if you start it IN GEAR, with the clutch UP :confused...

So by starting it in gear, with the handbrake up, you're messing up your handbrake/parking brake aren't you? They aren't designed to stop sudden jolts of a starter motor engaging the transmission is it? It's designed to keep the car stationary when it's parked... Hence the name...

[CirrusSR22]

9/1996 build is the cutoff.

Cars made before don't have the interlock
Cars on and after have it.

[MParallel]

9/1996 build is the cutoff.

Cars made before don't have the interlock
Cars on and after have it.

Uh no. See my BMW statement on the other page...

(although I don't know if that's Euro / US spec or for both).

[paniolo]

Never leave it in gear... When parking on a hill, turn your wheels inwards towards the curb - so if your handbrake fails, it'll just roll into the curb and stay there.

The reason to never leave it in gear, is if it's bumped or hit into when it's in gear, you'll have more problems than bodywork...

What's it going to do .... turn the engine over??? It isn't going to start with the ignition off and it isn't going to roll as far as a car in Neutral due to the engine compression. The driveline shock isn't great, but still not as bad as the normal operating environment.

btw my '96 seems to have some kind of neutral switch as occasionally nothing happens when I turn the key, then if I let the clutch out and push in again and it will start right up. Always assumed this was a neutral safety issue?

[kevinqjhps]

there is a switch on the clutch petal lever,(under dash) that is normally open, this interrupts thwe starter motor circuit. When you depress the cluth, the switch contacts close it enables the starter circuit to complete, and the starter to crank. this was mandated in cars for safety reasons, i believe around mid 80's?




You got it! That was changed because of the Audi 5000 "sudden acceleration" issue. Cars, if operating properly, are designed to NOT start in gear.

[CirrusSR22]

Uh no. See my BMW statement on the other page...

(although I don't know if that's Euro / US spec or for both).

No? Isn't 9/1996 right where 1997 model cars started production? I'm confirming what you said, not disputing it.

[thedude60126]

I have no parking brake so I always leave mine in gear. Yeah

[MParallel]

No? Isn't 9/1996 right where 1997 model cars started production? I'm confirming what you said, not disputing it.

Oh man, rofl, my bad. I was typing something and suddenly I understood what MY stand for. Not May with a typo, but Model Year.

Yes, than 9/96 makes sense. I know it's the facelift date, but could also be MY97.

Funny thing is, my car is full facelift model, but is from 8/96. However it's an original German car. It could be that Germany got the very first facelift models that came off the line. Mine must be a very early facelift car.

I don't have the clutch interlock. I have never heard anybody about having it. Maybe it's not Euro-spec. I'll check my domestic forum.

Funny enough

"EWS II Update
Beginning MY 1997 E31 and E36 vehicles with manual transmissions were updated to include a clutch
pedal position switch. The clutch switch signal is provided by a hall-effect sensor providing a high signal
when the clutch is depressed."

doesn't mention anything about it being a can start/can't start car thing. Although I can't think of any other function.

[Sclarpepplar]

"hey Corey you have a cool name,

-Cory"

rock on bro, my parents just went the extra mile and tossed in the E.

[GardenBeast]

man, every one of my cars has been able to do the start with no clutch pedal. EVERY ONE. sentra, mustang, celica, camry, celica, 318ti, 325e... all of them.
apparently they're not SUPPOSED to start without the clutch in, as my friends camry of the same year needed the clutch in...

[ublemaschine]

This switch is due to the Accelerates Under Demonic Influence issue that Audi got sued over. Someone started their car in gear (happened to be an Audi with the random accelerating issue) and wrecked either their garage or someone else's car ( I forget, some guy from audi told me this story). Then they sued Audi and of course won. Now all manual cars have to be safe for people who don't know how to drive a manual.

[BMW Blitz]

does the switch not activate if you are idling after the car is on then? Cause that would be a pain

[FLYINV]

THe BMW manual from my car says to always park in gear and to only apply the handbrake when parked on a slope.
Also in really cold weather the handbrake can get frozen when applied for a long period.

On a side note I've noticed my car doesn't hold on hills when its parked in first or reverse and no handbrake is applied. Always thought this wasn't normal

[GardenBeast]

THe BMW manual from my car says to always park in gear and to only apply the handbrake when parked on a slope.
Also in really cold weather the handbrake can get frozen when applied for a long period.

On a side note I've noticed my car doesn't hold on hills when its parked in first or reverse and no handbrake is applied. Always thought this wasn't normal


my e30 rolls. slowly. like every tooth in the gear.... slow.... roll... roll..... etc.

the e36, not so much, as i didn't have a handbrake for 3 months.

[Sclarpepplar]

nice sig garden...

[Mad Machine]

I hate clutch interlock switches.. I always defeat them on my cars.

[deanbruhn]

If your car is rolling in gear and its off, you should have a compression test done.

I have always left my cars in gear, but I live in a rust state where the parking break is often broken no matter what you drive. Granted I use my parking break in this e36 a grip more than I have in anything else, mainly because my starters going and I don't want to shut the car off when the starters warm, lol.

[foamerdave]

It's normal, '96s are the last ones without the clutch start switch.
far as I am concerned this is a good thing (I own a 93) God forbid you die in a spot that you can't push the car out of harms way. You can put it in 1st and crank the engine to move the car (not good for anything but better then getting rammed)

[Jeffrie]

My build date 10/96 (sold as a 97 model) and I have to push the clutch, wish I didn't.
Bro's Audi A4 build date 08/96 (sold as a 96 model) and will start in gear.

Geussing all german 97+ models need the clutch depressed to start now.

[FLYINV]

my e30 rolls. slowly. like every tooth in the gear.... slow.... roll... roll..... etc.

the e36, not so much, as i didn't have a handbrake for 3 months.

Yeah that's exactly what it feels like, I thought it was the teeth too.


If your car is rolling in gear and its off, you should have a compression test done.


Really, that bad eh?
Please explain more :)
I've always worried my engine's had some issues, it seems to be an oil burner.

[paniolo]

Really, that bad eh?
Please explain more :)
I've always worried my engine's had some issues, it seems to be an oil burner.

When your car is in gear the thing holding it on a slope is the compression of the engine. If your compression is low then the slope will over come the compression and the car will slowly roll as the engine slowly turns over. So if it is rolling with the engine turning over on slight slopes you may have some issues ... bad valve guides, bad rings etc that cause low compression. note though the final gearing ie what rear end and what gear it is, along with total vehicle weight also is a factor in the equation.

[Keaton]

i cant believe some of the stupid shit i just read.
if your car jumps with it in gear and the clutch pressed IN, either you need to bleed the system or replace the clutch

you CAN leave the car in gear when its off. i do it all the time

dont try to to start your car with it in gear and the clutch depressed, of course its going to jump and die. the motor doesn't have the momentum to keep the pistons spinning, after all your trying to move a 3,000lb car with the starter. what are you retarded or something?

[Arctikz]

"hey Corey you have a cool name,

-Cory"

rock on bro, my parents just went the extra mile and tossed in the E.

Ya you win huh.. lol Too bad i dont live in Canada though, i here its cheaper there or am i wrong on that.

And why does every thread turn into an arguement?


When your car is in gear the thing holding it on a slope is the compression of the engine. If your compression is low then the slope will over come the compression and the car will slowly roll as the engine slowly turns over. So if it is rolling with the engine turning over on slight slopes you may have some issues ... bad valve guides, bad rings etc that cause low compression. note though the final gearing ie what rear end and what gear it is, along with total vehicle weight also is a factor in the equation.
that reminds me of a time when a guy with a 5.0 stang was in the drive through and i was talking to him about his car and he started to pull off and he killed it :stickoutt And it wouldnt start so me and some of the other Wendys employees (I work at wendys.... yes i get weird looks when i go to my car in uniform), had to help him push his car to get it to start.. i always wondered why and now i know.

[jaguax]

Can someone explain to me how a manual car can even start when it's in gear? When a car is in gear and you crank it, doesn't that mean that the starter motor alone is pushing the vehicle forward? Does it really have that much torque?

Related video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=niNrw4qwk8s

[lexisboss]

well i previosly just bought my second bemmer which is a 96 3
28is and mines also starts without clitch being in at all !! lol.... my 01 328i doesnt do that !!!

[MParallel]

My build date 10/96 (sold as a 97 model) and I have to push the clutch, wish I didn't.
Bro's Audi A4 build date 08/96 (sold as a 96 model) and will start in gear.

Geussing all german 97+ models need the clutch depressed to start now.

It's still weird as my 8/96 doesn't have the interlock, but is a full 97 model. Don't know if 9/96 was the worldwide 97 model year/facelift release.

[Jeffrie]

Can someone explain to me how a manual car can even start when it's in gear? When a car is in gear and you crank it, doesn't that mean that the starter motor alone is pushing the vehicle forward? Does it really have that much torque?

Related video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=niNrw4qwk8s

This is not what happens when you start the car in gear, for starters you need to floor it for the car to actualy accelerate or yes it will stall, this kid just let the cluch go then caught it in time (before a stall) then didn't know what to do and ended up in the house, even pre 97 american cars need the clutch pushed in always to start.
To answer you question yes the starter motor does have enough tq to move a car forward but not quickly.


It's still weird as my 8/96 doesn't have the interlock, but is a full 97 model. Don't know if 9/96 was the worldwide 97 model year/facelift release.
Your also a fully European model, thinking Euro rules are not the same as North American rules, even in Canada rules are different then US law... Complicated.

[MParallel]

^^

Right about that. As far as I can recall, I have never seen any e36 here with said clutch lock. I still need to ask on my forum.

[BombSquad323]

more than likely the circut was closed in order to have a push start button with an alarm system. one of those push the button on the inside of the house and the car starts remotely things. cars that have a NSS wont allow that to happen.

as for leaving it in gear while parking, i say we write to mythbusters

[Seeker]

Also, when leaving a 5speed parked, never leave it in gear, always put it in neutral, and apply the handbrake.

sorry, but on a hill and leave it in neutral with only the handbrake to hold it... no way!

This makes about as much sense as putting an auto in neutral and use the handbrake to park it.

I'd MUCH RATHER replace a transmission than deal with bodywork. If my 5speed manual car gets hit so bad from the rear that my gearbox is fubar'd.. the car is totaled and a loss anyway.


Cocking the wheels towards the curb is a very good habit as a final precaution to prevent the car from rolling down the hill if it does go out of gear/park.



All this chatter and the OP only made one post about this.. didnt even make clear what it is he is describing.. he makes it sound like he can get the car to turn over and start ALL IN GEAR.. which cant be unless the clutch is completely gone and slipping horrible.

[MParallel]

I always put it in 1st and set the parking brake. 99% of people do it over here and I have never heard of any problems.

Thinking about it, I can't see why it would hurt the gearbox at all.

[Tefal]

^^

Right about that. As far as I can recall, I have never seen any e36 here with said clutch lock. I still need to ask on my forum.Your forum :shifty, you don't own e36coupe :stickoutt

The UK e36 don't have a clutch switch(lock) like mentioned,none do.

[MParallel]

Your forum :shifty, you don't own e36coupe :stickoutt

The UK e36 don't have a clutch switch(lock) like mentioned,none do.

Who's talking about e36coupe :D

I meant the Dutch forum.

But if you're saying UK didn't get the interlock either, than I'm sure we didn't neither.

[m52pwrdTi]

Also, when leaving a 5speed parked, never leave it in gear, always put it in neutral, and apply the handbrake.

Stupidest thing I ever heard... who taught you how to drive a stick? :rolleyes

Im pretty sure the chances of your Ebrake snapping are much better than someone "bumping" you and causing driveline damage because its in gear.

Even if you point the wheels towards the curb, id still rather not scar my wheels/tires to crap just on the OFF-CHANCE that someone might give me a little tap :nono Sorry but I would not trust my cars Ebrake with a grain of sand when it comes to keeping a vechile stationary and safe.

No one listen to this guy, always put your car in gear when parking... you'll thank me when your Ebrake gives way.

[Tefal]

I never leave the car in gear, but then I'm a technician so leaving a car in gear can be dangerous for some customers who also don't leave the car in gear, I always start the car with the clutch down but many customers don't