Question for those with awesome cars.

[CrazyCoder]

It's always a good idea to write things down. Unless, of course, your trying to figure out how much your "plan" for your car is going to cost you.

After much research and thought, I finally put together a spreadsheet with all the stuff I want to do to my car, divided into Stages, with subtotals for each stage and a final total at the end.

I came up with about $39k. :eyecrazy

Sweet Jumping Jesus! I could almost buy a new 135i for that! :confused

That got me thinking. I've seen a lot of kickass E36s out there, some with some crazy suspension and engine work, that look flawless. Do people actually spend this kind of money on these cars? I'm guessing they do, and the cars just accumulate parts over time, so no one thinks to check to see how much they actually cost. Am I right?

Well, guess I need to go figure out what lotto numbers to pick, and start looking for a second (and third) job! :(



Edit: No, I'm not crazy. Well... not that crazy. I won't be spending that kind of money on my car, since the likelihood of me having that kind of money is incredibly remote. I've actually paired down the spreadsheet to $16k of essentials, including the engine swap, which is a little more within reach. Man, I didn't expect some of the heated reactions I got from some people. I sense a few of you have anger issues. May I suggest a nice massage?

[MaxxChris]

Im going to guess people probably just dont keep track of the amount, I know I sure don't, but I also havent spent as much as some others. Whats on this list of yours that brought it to $39k??

[GardenBeast]

i haven't kept track. i know my "dream" entails about another $9,000..... but, that's canadian.

[KFeez]

$39k into that red car in ur sig should make it the hottest\fastest\quickest on this forum. I wouldn't even know how to spend that much on my car, but I have machine shop access\knowledge and my girl's dad has an upholstry business...so that saves me a ton

[GardenBeast]

labor and stuff adds up fast, on shit you can't do yourself. my dream is just parts.

[fuggle]

Wow. I can't imagine how to spend that much on an e36. I have a spreadsheet with all the parts I've replaced and those I'd like too. So far I've spent about an order of magnitude less than 36k. If I bought everything I want too I'd probably spend about 10K on mine. But alas I don't have that kind of coin to spend on it.

Kent

[MaxxChris]

Actually I do keep track of most costs too. I have a spreadsheet with what parts were replaced, the date, mileage, and parts cost. I do all my own labor so theres none of that to account for, but I like to keep track for my own records and so the car has a "history". In just over a year I've probably spent between $1500 and $2000. Most has been replacment parts (cooling system etc.) since I had no records when I bought it, but some stuff has been "go fast" or "look good" parts too.

[CrazyCoder]

Whats on this list of yours that brought it to $39k??

$16k into an S52, rebuild with ported heads, Supertech valve train, all new bearings and seals, overhauled VANOS, Schrick Cams, AARP main and head studs, and an AA C38-71 supercharger (360hp according to AA on a stock motor, I figure with what I had planned, more like 400 with great reliability).

$6k into the driveline (E46 6-speed, LSD, ect)

$6k into the exterior (M3 parts, new paint)

$3k into wheels and brakes (330i front, E46 32x rear, M3 master cylinder)

$6k into the suspension (everything, then add reinforcements)

$1k into stereo components

$600 into a Z3 rack swap

$1.5k into misc bits (E46 M3 front seats, 3-spoke M-technic wheel, ect)



To be honest, I've probably got $2k into my car right now, over the last year. I had to stop autocrossing it because it was getting uncontrollable when pushed hard, the bushings are just -gone-, and the shocks are weak. In the immortal words of Ricky Bobby, "I wanna go fast!"

So far it looks like the only thing going fast for a while is the money out of my wallet. :(

Truth be told, I priced just about everything at "brand new", so if I get used parts it'll be cheaper. I can guarantee the brake work won't cost $3k. I figure I can do almost all the work myself, except for paint and welding.

[GardenBeast]

$16k into an S52, rebuild with ported heads, Supertech valve train, all new bearings and seals, overhauled VANOS, Schrick Cams, AARP main and head studs, and an AA C38-71 supercharger (360hp according to AA on a stock motor, I figure with what I had planned, more like 400 with great reliability).

$6k into the driveline (E46 6-speed, LSD, ect)

$6k into the exterior (M3 parts, new paint)

$3k into wheels and brakes (330i front, E46 32x rear, M3 master cylinder)

$6k into the suspension (everything, then add reinforcements)

$1k into stereo components

$600 into a Z3 rack swap

$1.5k into misc bits (E46 M3 front seats, 3-spoke M-technic wheel, ect)



To be honest, I've probably got $2k into my car right now, over the last year. I had to stop autocrossing it because it was getting uncontrollable when pushed hard, the bushings are just -gone-, and the shocks are weak. In the immortal words of Ricky Bobby, "I wanna go fast!"

So far it looks like the only thing going fast for a while is the money out of my wallet. :(

Truth be told, I priced just about everything at "brand new", so if I get used parts it'll be cheaper. I can guarantee the brake work won't cost $3k.


i admire your dedication to your car. you and me both, friend. i can't see me NOT dropping tons of cash on my car...

[marineifra]

truth be told, some of the best looking shit is free or really cheap. or just jury rigged. ask anyone that shows cars on a regular basis...theres alot of behind the scenes bullshit to make something look great...for really cheap.
and instead of the s52 swap...theres the chevy ls1 or whatever it is and the ford 302 (i saw one in person). that...hehe..that is a swap. and hella cheap too!

[CrazyCoder]

The LS1 swap is tasty, thats for sure... but after you get the LS1, and all the parts to put it in... your looking at $16k.

I already had a high-HP Chevy, and while it's still an option, I really like the smoothness of the BMW 6.

I think that's part of my problem... I don't like to rig something if I can help it. I figure if it's going to be done, it should be done right.

[espguitarist]

The LS1 swap is tasty, thats for sure... but after you get the LS1, and all the parts to put it in... your looking at $16k.

I already had a high-HP Chevy, and while it's still an option, I really like the smoothness of the BMW 6.

I think that's part of my problem... I don't like to rig something if I can help it. I figure if it's going to be done, it should be done right.

You and me both.

[marineifra]

its not necessarily rigging something...if its done right. for example, u hit a deer on the way to a car show. r u just going to turn around? nope. ur going to pick up ur fog light and zip tie it in there.

[espguitarist]

its not necessarily rigging something...if its done right. for example, u hit a deer on the way to a car show. r u just going to turn around? nope. ur going to pick up ur fog light and zip tie it in there.

HAHAHAHAHA, you think that's all that happens when you hit a deer?! Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. Let's put it this way....the foglight was the LEAST of my worries at the time.

[marineifra]

ok...possum. i was reaching man! im exhausted, 1/2 drunk, and 3/4 dehydrated. and i have to get up fro work at 330. its 1204 right now.

[espguitarist]

ok...possum. i was reaching man! im exhausted, 1/2 drunk, and 3/4 dehydrated. and i have to get up fro work at 330. its 1204 right now.

Lol. Door, bumper, fender, hood, foglight, headlight, turn signal, nose panel, fender liner, brake duct, etc., etc., the list goes on. AND I was lucky. REALLY lucky. I almost hit a possum once...it was in my mom's truck. The deer around here are mocking me now, the other day I saw a little fawn on the side of the road (alive) and had to slow down for it, then on my way home from work tonight there was a doe running along the road that I had to slow down for too. I hate deer.

[Pswirley]

I officially spent $18 and went from pic one to pic two

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z279/pswirley/CopyofPicture194.jpg


http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z279/pswirley/februaryphotoshoot042.jpg

[CrazyCoder]

And a nice upgrade it is, PSwirley... but I'm afraid that'd just be spending $18k to get to another starting point. :(

[Pswirley]

Those two pics are the same car. I spent a little more than $18.00.


I now have an E46 and am about to get deep in it.

[n24tg]

$16k into an S52, rebuild with ported heads, Supertech valve train, all new bearings and seals, overhauled VANOS, Schrick Cams, AARP main and head studs, and an AA C38-71 supercharger (360hp according to AA on a stock motor, I figure with what I had planned, more like 400 with great reliability).

How about a S50B32 instead? Or turbo the motor you have. Much cheaper.

$6k into the driveline (E46 6-speed, LSD, ect)
6 speed is unnecessary. Save your money and get a $400 LSD. Maybe a lightweight flywheel if just really want to spend.

$6k into the exterior (M3 parts, new paint)
Bah. M3 bumper and be done. Maybe moulding.

$3k into wheels and brakes (330i front, E46 32x rear, M3 master cylinder)
Are you tracking the car? Try pads + cooling ducts first. $300 for amazing pads and maybe some new stock rotors for $170. $30 Home Depot ducting. Otherwise dont waste your money.

$6k into the suspension (everything, then add reinforcements)
$680 for Bilstein/H&R Race. $190 for new strut mounts. $15 reinforcement plates. $70 LCABS. Start there.

$1k into stereo components
About right.

$600 into a Z3 rack swap
Meh. Would be nice but its not necessary.

$1.5k into misc bits (E46 M3 front seats, 3-spoke M-technic wheel, ect)
Waste.


Thats more like 12k and far more reasonable. Lots of waste in that list.

[CrazyCoder]

Thats more like 12k and far more reasonable. Lots of waste in that list.

I've been kicking around the S50B32 idea, but they are somewhat harder to come by, and I'm worried about parts availability. Where are you getting a halfway decent price on the S50B32? Every one I've seen has been $8k or more.

6-speed is necessary if I go with a shorter Diff, since I do a lot of highway driving. I'll need the overdrive.

Not hard core tracking, but like I said, I know I can do the 330i and E46 rear brakes for a lot less than what I said, probably more like $500, I just need to source used parts.

I'm starting with Front Control Arms, Tie rods, front control arm bushings, and RTABs. Once I get the scary clunks in the front gone, I'll start tackling the rest.

As for the Z3 swap not being necessary... no, but is any of it?

[CrazyCoder]

Those two pics are the same car. I spent a little more than $18.00.


I now have an E46 and am about to get deep in it.


I know, I was talking about the E46 you now have. :D

Yeah, but you had your own shop, didn't you? I don't have the benefits of that.

[Blanco]

Taking P's cue.

$4500 (including fees)
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/91SiZ6/325i/325i001.jpg

$10k (including purchase price)
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/91SiZ6/325i/car001.jpg

[GardenBeast]

Those two pics are the same car. I spent a little more than $18.00.


I now have an E46 and am about to get deep in it.


did you spend $18 on developing the film?

or steal the parts? :nono

[CrazyCoder]

Guess it just goes to show you don't need to spend a ton of money to get a nice looking car.

[Bluebimma]

At most, with the purchase of the car, im spending about 15k at MOST.

[Blanco]

At most, with the purchase of the car, im spending about 15k at MOST.

Yeah, I'm not spending too much more on this car other than maintenance.

[mclone92]

ive had this car sence march and spent 2k so far and not much has changed except for finishing the tan to black interior, m3 front bumper and mantinence.

my integra with purchase price i spent around 30 grand on it :rolleyes :( i dont like to think about it lol

[Bluebimma]

Yeah, I'm not spending too much more on this car other than maintenance.

If i get everything done in the current order i plan on, i should hit about 12k and be completely done with everything, 15k is my highest mark. Im at about 8k right now with the purchase of the car itself. All maintenance would be up to par, exterior, interior, the works. :rofl

[Blanco]

If i get everything done in the current order i plan on, i should hit about 12k and be completely done with everything, 15k is my highest mark. Im at about 8k right now with the purchase of the car itself. All maintenance would be up to par, exterior, interior, the works. :rofl

I haven't planned out my prices, but I figure about $3k and then I shouldn't have to put anything into it other than gas and oil.

[Pswirley]

Guess it just goes to show you don't need to spend a ton of money to get a nice looking car.


LOL.. I honestly probably spent more money than that every time I show prepped it and I did that in my front yard.


I used to help out my friend who owned a shop but I still paid for most of the work that was done to it. Or I bought the necessary parts and pieces and did the work myself.

[atlantisvip]

Taking P's cue.

$4500 (including fees)
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/91SiZ6/325i/325i001.jpg

$10k (including purchase price)
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/91SiZ6/325i/car001.jpg

Wheels and springs ?? :dunno

[Haelo]

An E36 with significant upgrades to the engine and suspension is worth more to me than a new stock 135i or whatever. It's just more of what I like in a car, and I'm prepared to spend upwards of $30,000 on it in as much time as I'd spend on a $30,000 car loan.

[happycamper]

look for whole parts cars that will save u moneys

[atlantisvip]

An E36 with significant upgrades to the engine and suspension is worth more to me than a new stock 135i or whatever. It's just more of what I like in a car, and I'm prepared to spend upwards of $30,000 on it in as much time as I'd spend on a $30,000 car loan.

If any bank knows you have that mentality, that loan is a far cry away.:lol

[Blanco]

Wheels and springs ?? :dunno

17x8 ASA AR2 with Kuhmo ASX 225/45/17 tires and H&R coilovers, for just under $1600. Both bought gently used from forum members. Being thrifty saved me about $700 that I spent on other things.

Here's the full run down.
-The wheels and suspension
-Rogue RSM
-TMS rear shock mount plates
-OEM front strut mount plates
-UUC RTABs
-UUC Stage One clutch/flywheel kit
-UUC clutch soft line
-ZKW headlights (yet to be installed)
-Clear corner (also yet to be installed)
-Depo crystal/red tails

Beyond that there's been some maintenance like two slave cylinders (broke the first one), two clutch cylinders (soon to be a third), new clutch hard-line, ignition tumbler, ignition housing, ignition switch, oil filters, air filter, fuel filter, O2 sensor, new front roundel (gotta have that), guibo, pilot bearing, and few other odds and ends. The cooling system was done the previous, and original, owner 4k miles before I bought the car...which was about 4k miles ago.

[atlantisvip]

Atleast you invested in preventive maintennance too.

[Bris328is]

I do not keep track-- but a rough guess

engine mods--8000
suspension mods and repairs--3500
M tech body parts -- 1000

drive line 2500

lights and others--1000

[SpasticDwarf]

I didn't read any of the posts in this thread, but I will say this-
There's no way in hell you could spend $39k on an e36. Hell, I've probably got one of the larger amounts of money in to my car and I'm not even half that.

[Blanco]

Atleast you invested in preventive maintennance too.

Going to be doing spark plugs and probably the valve cover/spark plug tube gaskets in the near future, too. The original owner just got tired of working on it. I figured that it looked to be in otherwise good condition, he was in his late 40's to early 50's, and I wanted to upgrade all of that stuff anyway. Then, I found really good deals on the parts I wanted. Being thrifty pays off. I have a lot more maintenance/upgrading on the docket for it. I need to actually make a list one of these days.


I didn't read any of the posts in this thread, but I will say this-
There's no way in hell you could spend $39k on an e36. Hell, I've probably got one of the larger amounts of money in to my car and I'm not even half that.

I could easily spend $39k on my car...you know, if I was shitting money that is. You guys just aren't being imaginative enough. Think about how much this would cost, an S50 rebuild using brand new block and head castings along with everything else OEM BMW or high dollar aftermarket. Then, throw a turbo kit on it. You're going to want to beef up the drive-train, get a brand spanking new six speed, brand new diff casting with cryo-treated gears and an aftermarket LSD. And so on. It adds up really fast. Basically though, you'd be building either a purpose built race car or a balls out show car.

[Bris328is]

I could easily spend $39k on my car...you know, if I was shitting money that is. You guys just aren't being imaginative enough. Think about how much this would cost, an S50 rebuild using brand new block and head castings along with everything else OEM BMW or high dollar aftermarket. Then, throw a turbo kit on it. You're going to want to beef up the drive-train, get a brand spanking new six speed, brand new diff casting with cryo-treated gears and an aftermarket LSD. And so on. It adds up really fast. Basically though, you'd be building either a purpose built race car or a balls out show car.
hell-- you could be 5K into the drive line alone--

when you boost the E36 plan on a new driveline from the clutch/flywheel, which will need to be ceramic that will run you 1500 and upgrades on all the mounts and the diff.

perhaps even new axels-- depending on how much HP you are making.

[CrazyCoder]

Oh yeah, there is no way I'm spending that kind of money, I just can't afford to do that unless I win the lottery or something. It was kind of a dream build to see what I'd love to do, and I did it using prices for new parts, since the used part prices fluctuate so much. I figure I could probably build the same car for about half that, if I take my time and find gently used parts instead of new. For instance, I could get a helluva deal on a low mileage engine and not need to open the bottom end except to tack the oil pump nut.

Guys at work keep pushing me to sell the BMW and get either a GTO, Mustang GT, or Subaru WRX (oddly enough, thats the same cars they have). The GTO is fast as hell going straight, but looks like a big Grand Prix, and doesn't really do anything for me other than it's speed. The WRX isn't bad, but he broke the tranny once with light track duty, and it's making odd noises again... and it just doesn't have that nice build quality. The Mustang... well... I just don't like it.

If I was going to get any new car, it'd probably be a 135i. But I don't really want a new car, I like my E36. I like the lines, I like how it drives, and I like it's size. I wish the seats were a little lower, hence the E46 seat swap, but other than that I find it to be a responsive and eager chassis that is still plenty comfortable to drive cross-country (except for my horrible non-sport seats, which make my ass go numb).

[SpasticDwarf]

I could easily spend $39k on my car...you know, if I was shitting money that is. You guys just aren't being imaginative enough. Think about how much this would cost, an S50 rebuild using brand new block and head castings along with everything else OEM BMW or high dollar aftermarket. Then, throw a turbo kit on it. You're going to want to beef up the drive-train, get a brand spanking new six speed, brand new diff casting with cryo-treated gears and an aftermarket LSD. And so on. It adds up really fast. Basically though, you'd be building either a purpose built race car or a balls out show car.

Man, a new S50 from BMW isn't that much. A short block costs $7200. Even if you bought a short block from BMW and rebuilt it again just for the sake of doing it again, you wouldn't break $15k.

Yes, technically you could spend $39k, hell you could do $139k. The point is that without being unreasonable, you couldn't spend $39k.

[n24tg]

hell-- you could be 5K into the drive line alone--

when you boost the E36 plan on a new driveline from the clutch/flywheel, which will need to be ceramic that will run you 1500 and upgrades on all the mounts and the diff.

perhaps even new axels-- depending on how much HP you are making.

No, no, no, new diff if you want LSD, and no.

[Blanco]

Man, a new S50 from BMW isn't that much. A short block costs $7200. Even if you bought a short block from BMW and rebuilt it again just for the sake of doing it again, you wouldn't break $15k.

Yes, technically you could spend $39k, hell you could do $139k. The point is that without being unreasonable, you couldn't spend $39k.

Not a pre-built short block, I just didn't feel like typing out a detailed block build. :)

Seriously, it all adds up fast. What's reasonable to one person might not be reasonable for other people and vice versa. There are people who literally have spent $50k+ on their street racing cars, long before Need For Speed Underground or the Fast and Furryassed came out. I know a guy who spent $20k on building a Honda B18C1 (from an Integra GSR) including the turbo kit, management, etc. and he didn't use new castings.

Now take that say $15k on the engine, add in the $5k in drive train, $4k in wheels, $3-4k in a custom interior, $2k on exterior mods, $3-5k for a custom paint job. That's about $34k already. If an old man thinks it's reasonable to pull a rust bucket out of a field and spend $40k+ on making it a hot rod, why would it be unreasonable to build a hot rod out of an E36? :)

[n24tg]

Oh yeah, there is no way I'm spending that kind of money, I just can't afford to do that unless I win the lottery or something. It was kind of a dream build to see what I'd love to do, and I did it using prices for new parts, since the used part prices fluctuate so much. I figure I could probably build the same car for about half that, if I take my time and find gently used parts instead of new. For instance, I could get a helluva deal on a low mileage engine and not need to open the bottom end except to tack the oil pump nut.

If I was going to get any new car, it'd probably be a 135i. But I don't really want a new car, I like my E36. I like the lines, I like how it drives, and I like it's size. I wish the seats were a little lower, hence the E46 seat swap, but other than that I find it to be a responsive and eager chassis that is still plenty comfortable to drive cross-country (except for my horrible non-sport seats, which make my ass go numb).

The point is you can have 97% of the car you describe for, at most, 30% of that cost.

Turbo: $7k all said and done
-or-
Supercharger: $4.5k all said and done

3.23 or 3.15 LSD: $400. 3.23 will be plenty short while still having a decent 5th gear.

M3 bumper + moulding: $750 including paint

Wheels and tires: $1200 new, $800 for some used Contours and new rubber.

Brakes: $400. Again, try pads first.

Suspension: $700 for springs and shocks. Lets say $800 to refresh almost every bushing on the car and add bolt in reinforcements.

Stereo: $1k for everything

Seats: $700 for two used Sparco Torinos.

So thats a killer car for somewhere between $10000 and $13000.

[TIMSGT]

I do not keep track-- but a rough guess

engine mods--8000
suspension mods and repairs--3500
M tech body parts -- 1000

drive line 2500

lights and others--1000

Finally arriving at driving nirvana -- priceless



I also have a spreadsheet with a list of mods and maintenance done to my car since I bought it. I'm going to be 6k deep when I finally finish, not including purchase of car. Although, with gas on the way up my priorities have changed abit :(

[LukeP]

You would be much better off with going with something like a 2.9 or 3.0 bore M52, dropped compression and still meaty cylinder walls would make a great engine for boost. I'm sure you can put together a MONSTER engine/forced induction system for 10k-ish if you do all the work yourself and source the parts wisely.

The first thing I did to my car when I got was RSM's and RTABs. I just put coilovers on and am going to LCABs, Diff, Subframe bushings, and chassis reinforcement. With paintwork and some fixing up of the body I can see the car running close to 10k total. When I build my engine (may or may not be the m52 I described above :) ) and fix up the interior and rest of the car like race seats, brakes, and all I can see another 15k going into it.

25k is a reasonable number when all said and done for my car. Having a well handling, quick stopping, beautiful looking and 500whp+ car for that price is a good deal IMO. Thats performance you get out of cars that cost 4x that and you get the satisfaction of it being your unique project.

40k is a little obscene, but I know some people that went nuts like that. (carbon fiber everything, custom interiors, outsourcing engine builds, paying for all labor) It can add up for sure.

[Bris328is]

No, no, no, new diff if you want LSD, and no.
Grampa-- I am referring to developing 20psi and 700+ hp


yes yes yes and yes--

speaking from experience:D and no not the one in my sig

[yeomgon]

I could easily spend more than 39k excluding any labor charges. Well, when you do it, it's practically rebuilding the whole car though...and I wish I had the money to do it. I have plenty of time to do it sigh.

[93ride]

6k on a suspension....rofffle...what do you plan on doing with this car that you will need a 6k suspension set up...
and I also wouldnt see the purpose of dropping 6k for the exterior...im assuming you are going to track the hell out of this dream car...so I think you should look over your numbers a bit more

[n24tg]

hell-- you could be 5K into the drive line alone--

when you boost the E36 plan on a new driveline from the clutch/flywheel, which will need to be ceramic that will run you 1500 and upgrades on all the mounts and the diff.

perhaps even new axels-- depending on how much HP you are making.


Grampa-- I am referring to developing 20psi and 700+ hp


yes yes yes and yes--

speaking from experience:D and no not the one in my sig

Duh, 700+hp. My bad...


:rolleyes

[Bris328is]

Duh, 700+hp. My bad...


:rolleyes
On the 328 in my sig-- its only developing 310hp at the rear wheels-- this winter I an installing a 3.38 lsd which I have in the garage now and a UUC stage II aluminum flywheel with a cerametallic disk, SS line and new mounts-- that will complete that cars drivetrain

my current clutch is slipping and chattering:buttrock

[93ride]

On the 328 in my sig-- its only developing 310hp at the rear wheels-- this winter I an installing a 3.38 lsd which I have in the garage now and a UUC stage II aluminum flywheel with a cerametallic disk, SS line and new mounts-- that will complete that cars drivetrain

my current clutch is slipping and chattering:buttrock


more money in the money pit :D

[m52pwrdTi]

ive probably got about $11-12k sunk into my little shitbox... and its still a shitbox.

[93ride]

ive probably got about $11-12k sunk into my little shitbox... and its still a shitbox.

hahahaha

[n24tg]

On the 328 in my sig-- its only developing 310hp at the rear wheels-- this winter I an installing a 3.38 lsd which I have in the garage now and a UUC stage II aluminum flywheel with a cerametallic disk, SS line and new mounts-- that will complete that cars drivetrain

my current clutch is slipping and chattering:buttrock

The point was you dont need the LTW or upgraded clutch for 310whp. And FWIW the UUC will only fix the slipping. It chatters like crazy even with the reccomended fluid.

[CrazyCoder]

6k on a suspension....rofffle...what do you plan on doing with this car that you will need a 6k suspension set up...
and I also wouldnt see the purpose of dropping 6k for the exterior...im assuming you are going to track the hell out of this dream car...so I think you should look over your numbers a bit more

Well, that includes the $2k I've heard that it costs to have subframe reinforcements installed, and I kind of think those are important. Truth be told, I can get away with a lot less if I just replace the bushings that are bad, and not the ones that will be bad in the future.

[Bimjam96]

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn316/jfarian/Copyofbeforeandafter.jpg

just under 5k dollars. if i could i would dump another 5 grand into it on suspension and engine, but im thinking about buying an e30 and rebuilding it from the ground up instead and making it a track car and keeping this as a daily driver

[Rob Levinson]

$39 K

Yikes. First of all, I'll be the first to tell you that it does not make sense unless that money is going to win you races or show prize money.

Let's review and see what we can rationalize... this is how I would build it with our parts:


$16k into an S52, rebuild with ported heads, Supertech valve train, all new bearings and seals, overhauled VANOS, Schrick Cams, AARP main and head studs, and an AA C38-71 supercharger (360hp according to AA on a stock motor, I figure with what I had planned, more like 400 with great reliability).

Pick up a low-mile S52 for $3K. Add a turbo from a variety of good sources for around $6K. Don't forget installation and miscellaneous, not sure if you had that above - $11K total.



$6k into the driveline (E46 6-speed, LSD, etc)

That's about right... $3K transmission, $1200 UUC flywheel/clutch, $2500 LSD with appropriate gearset, $450 in UUC 6-speed transmission parts. That's $7K done right, save not that much with cheaper alternatives.


$6k into the exterior (M3 parts, new paint)

That's insane considering high-mileage early E36 M3s are selling for not much more. You could buy a complete M3 in the right color, transfer the body parts and engine, and sell the rest.

This is where conversions stop making sense... you're building a 323 into a worked M3 for more than it would cost to start with the M3 in the first place.

But nevertheless, that $6K is still unrealistic when decent replica M3 bumpers and sideskirts can be had for under $1000 total, plus $1000 for professional paint. That's $2K total.


$3k into wheels and brakes (330i front, E46 32x rear, M3 master cylinder)

$2K is right for decent wheels (D-Force (http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/d-force)) and tires.

E46 330 front / 328 rear brakes? Why are you wasting money on a BAD IDEA? Read this (applies equally to your E36 323 and the 328):

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9013360&postcount=21

$1099 for an appropriate front BBK (http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc) biased to work properly with your original rears, better feel and operation than any OE part.


$6k into the suspension (everything, then add reinforcements)

I fear to ask what monstrosity of a coilover setup has been recommended to you, totally unnecessary on your street car and not even used on many racecars.

100% suspension refresh for your street-driven car, and this is a setup that exceeds even what SpecE36 racecars use:

TCK Racing suspension with Sport springs and 4-wheel externally adjustable (click here) (http://www.nexternal.com/uuc/Product655): $1126.94

FCAB (http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/FCAB/)s: $179

Swaybars (http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_product/sway_barbarian/index.htm): $349

RTAB (http://www.nexternal.com/uuc/Product529)s: $55

Rear Subframe bushings (http://www.nexternal.com/uuc/Product424): $159

RSM (http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/MEYLE_HD)s: $55

$1923.94 in parts, figure $400 for installation and alignment, total $2323.94



$1k into stereo components

About right.


$600 into a Z3 rack swap

Doing a lot of auto-x? If not, you really won't notice. I wouldn't bother.


$1.5k into misc bits (E46 M3 front seats, 3-spoke M-technic wheel, etc)

Yeah, have to do that. A cool interior is worthwhile.

So what's the real bottom line? $25,922.94 Just saved you $14,000.

OR...

Forget the 6-speed and just pick up the LSD/3.23 from a '96+ M3 for $400.... with a turbo, you may want the higher gearing, and you won't need the 6th gear/overdrive. You still want a stronger clutch and appropriate flywheel, but now you've chopped off another $4500.

So now you're down to about $21,500.

HOWEVER...

You may have forgotten a few things... cooling system overhaul ($350 for Stewart pump, $$200-$800 for M3 radiator), full under-car exhaust system (M3 midpipe $500, performance cat-back $500-$900). This means you may be adding another $2K-$2K.

And my last suggestion... keep another $5K around for things you've forgotten or which need more work than anticipated.

Hope that helps!

[SpasticDwarf]

E36/S54 guys just understand it. 8)

[Rob Levinson]

Heh.

I bought my current '98 M3 about 3 or 4 years ago.

The only parts left that are original... chassis, body panels, most glass, rear subframe, dashboard, carpet, interior door panels, and paint.

Every mechanical part in the car, most of the wiring, all seating, instruments, audio, wheels, suspension, brakes, and anything not listed in the "original parts" list above.

Insanity is a perfectly acceptable hobby.

- Rob

[Blanco]

Yikes. First of all, I'll be the first to tell you that it does not make sense unless that money is going to win you races or show prize money.

Let's review and see what we can rationalize... this is how I would build it with our parts:
$16k into an S52, rebuild with ported heads, Supertech valve train, all new bearings and seals, overhauled VANOS, Schrick Cams, AARP main and head studs, and an AA C38-71 supercharger (360hp according to AA on a stock motor, I figure with what I had planned, more like 400 with great reliability).Pick up a low-mile S52 for $3K. Add a turbo from a variety of good sources for around $6K. Don't forget installation and miscellaneous, not sure if you had that above - $11K total.

$6k into the driveline (E46 6-speed, LSD, etc)That's about right... $3K transmission, $1200 UUC flywheel/clutch, $2500 LSD with appropriate gearset, $450 in UUC 6-speed transmission parts. That's $7K done right, save not that much with cheaper alternatives.
$6k into the exterior (M3 parts, new paint)That's insane considering high-mileage early E36 M3s are selling for not much more. You could buy a complete M3 in the right color, transfer the body parts and engine, and sell the rest.

This is where conversions stop making sense... you're building a 323 into a worked M3 for more than it would cost to start with the M3 in the first place.

But nevertheless, that $6K is still unrealistic when decent replica M3 bumpers and sideskirts can be had for under $1000 total, plus $1000 for professional paint. That's $2K total.
$3k into wheels and brakes (330i front, E46 32x rear, M3 master cylinder)$2K is right for decent wheels (D-Force (http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/d-force)) and tires.

E46 330 front / 328 rear brakes? Why are you wasting money on a BAD IDEA? Read this (applies equally to your E36 323 and the 328):

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9013360&postcount=21

$1099 for an appropriate front BBK (http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/pbc) biased to work properly with your original rears, better feel and operation than any OE part.
$6k into the suspension (everything, then add reinforcements)I fear to ask what monstrosity of a coilover setup has been recommended to you, totally unnecessary on your street car and not even used on many racecars.

100% suspension refresh for your street-driven car, and this is a setup that exceeds even what SpecE36 racecars use:

TCK Racing suspension with Sport springs and 4-wheel externally adjustable (click here) (http://www.nexternal.com/uuc/Product655): $1126.94

FCAB (http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/FCAB/)s: $179

Swaybars (http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_product/sway_barbarian/index.htm): $349

RTAB (http://www.nexternal.com/uuc/Product529)s: $55

Rear Subframe bushings (http://www.nexternal.com/uuc/Product424): $159

RSM (http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/MEYLE_HD)s: $55

$1923.94 in parts, figure $400 for installation and alignment, total $2323.94

$1k into stereo componentsAbout right.
$600 into a Z3 rack swapDoing a lot of auto-x? If not, you really won't notice. I wouldn't bother.
$1.5k into misc bits (E46 M3 front seats, 3-spoke M-technic wheel, etc)Yeah, have to do that. A cool interior is worthwhile.

So what's the real bottom line? $25,922.94 Just saved you $14,000.

OR...

Forget the 6-speed and just pick up the LSD/3.23 from a '96+ M3 for $400.... with a turbo, you may want the higher gearing, and you won't need the 6th gear/overdrive. You still want a stronger clutch and appropriate flywheel, but now you've chopped off another $4500.

So now you're down to about $21,500.

HOWEVER...

You may have forgotten a few things... cooling system overhaul ($350 for Stewart pump, $$200-$800 for M3 radiator), full under-car exhaust system (M3 midpipe $500, performance cat-back $500-$900). This means you may be adding another $2K-$2K.

And my last suggestion... keep another $5K around for things you've forgotten or which need more work than anticipated.

Hope that helps!

Great transition reply from the hypothetical to the practical. You've taken us from what can be done with $39k to the best way to actually spend it. And yeah, dropping $39k into pretty much any car will make it either a purpose built race or show car.:buttrock

[atlantisvip]

This conversation is just silly now. Buy a real sports car from the beginning and you're all set.

[CrazyCoder]

Thanks for the input, Rob.

Actually, the reason the exterior revisions were so high is because I asked the wrong person how much paint would cost. They said $5k, since then I actually got a quote of $2k, but honestly if I just get the hood and bumper resprayed, I'll be fine (more like... $800?).

A huge chunk of the suspension costs was in getting the rear subframe done, IE: Labor. However I'm thinking it'd actually be more cost effective to buy a welder and learn to weld. I'm still coming up around $3k for suspension, but I'm also replacing my control arms, tie rods, front strut mounts, diff mounts (when I do the rear), and upper/lower trailing arm bushings and inner/outer control arm bushings in the rear. If I remove those, I can get it down a bit more, but I'd feel better with them replaced.

Yeah, I was going a little (ok, a lot) over-the-top with the engine for no real gain, and have realized that since then. Your estimate on the engine is closer to what I now have, I'm at $11k, including the Shcrick cams and AA Supercharger. I'm hesitant to go turbo, no real reason why.

Which is about what a decent E46 M3 costs around here.

Honestly this was just a mental exercise. The likelyhood of me doing anything other than just replacing my worn out suspension components is actually rather low. It's more likely I'll fix what needs to be fixed, and sell the car to get something a little more practicle (not sure what).

[Rob Levinson]

This conversation is just silly now. Buy a real sports car from the beginning and you're all set.

<robot voice>

"Lease from the dealer. Trade in after three years. Conform. CONFORM. You will be assimilated!"

</robot voice>

It's appropriate to tell someone what car they should drive when you are paying for it. :D

In all seriousness, it's the versatility of the E36 chassis that makes it such a popular choice... it can be all things; comfortable for four people, world-beater handling, extreme performance with tuning, classic yet understated looks, and suitable for people 18-88 years old. Can't say the same things about a Corvette, Mustang, RSX, etc.

- Rob

[CrazyCoder]

<robot voice>

"Lease from the dealer. Trade in after three years. Conform. CONFORM. You will be assimilated!"

</robot voice>

It's appropriate to tell someone what car they should drive when you are paying for it. :D


Well, to be honest Rob, I'd be paying for it. I mean, I could buy a sports car for this kind of money... but then, the only car I've driven recently that feels right to me has been my E36. Even with the scary clunks from the front, I'm always catching "faster" cars on the freeway on-ramps, and it still seems like the car wants to be pushed harder.

[Rob Levinson]

Well, to be honest Rob, I'd be paying for it.

That was my point exactly!



I mean, I could buy a sports car for this kind of money... but then, the only car I've driven recently that feels right to me has been my E36. Even with the scary clunks from the front, I'm always catching "faster" cars on the freeway on-ramps, and it still seems like the car wants to be pushed harder.

Funny thing how that works... nobody bothered to tell the E36 that there wasn't a purebred racecar platform underneath. :D

- Rob

[casamari]

some crazy $$ in this thread... i just bought my 93 e36 about a month ago and i decided to keep track of everything so that i have a history of the car and all the $ spent on it. so far it's been maintenance and repairs only and according to my excel spreadsheet i'm at $2300 and that's including purchase price. still more work to be done.... so far i've done: replaced thermostat & upgraded to aluminum housing and coolant flush & fill, auto trans filter gaskets and oil change, valve cover gasket with spark plug bushings replacement (had spray painted valve cover black and cleaned out all the rust and nasty stuff inside), replaced spark plugs (from autolite to boshFR7LDC+), replaced fuel filter (man, what a bitch that was - in engine compartment NOT underneath car), seafoam in intake manifold, crankcase, gas tank, cleaned out IAC valve, and K&N cone filter (STill need to fab a box for it to keep engine heat away - got some temp shield on for now).

[CrazyCoder]

Ok, so now I have 2 excel spreadsheets.

CrazyE36Plan.xls and SaneE36Plan.xls

Personally I think the "sane" one is subjective, it's only really "sane" in relation to the "crazy". :D

There were a few items on the list that I realized I didn't need, at all. The transmission (6-speed) would still be nice, but if I stick with a 3.23 LSD, I should still turn halfway decent RPMs at 80mph. I can always go to the 6-speed if I end up ruining the 5-speed.

Remove some of the exterior stuff that I decided I didn't need. I'm not looking to build an M3 clone, just a kick-ass 332.

I also realized that, unless the engine has 150k+ miles on it, I'm most likely going to be fine not doing the bottom end. If compression is good, then everything down there should be fine. I do plan on tacking the oil pump nut, though. I still plan on having the head work done, too. Possibly not needed, but it can't hurt. I'm sticking with the AA Supercharger kit, still. I'm warming to the ideas of a custom turbo setup, but I like the reliability of the SC. FI is in the cards, regardless of the direction I go. Unless, of course, I find a deal on a S50B32, in which case that'll find a nice home under my hood.

So I'm right dead center between Rob's two estimates at $23k. Geez, still seems like a lot, doesn't it? Still, if I do this, I'll keep the car as long as possible. It should also be able to totally spank the living hell out of the Mustang GT at work. He needs to be taken down a notch. It took him 3 years to build that car, and he's been insufferable since it was completed. He says it's "Done", but I don't think cars ever get that way. They aren't ever "done", there is just "installing parts" and "waiting for parts".

Well, consider this my "Damned Dirty Noob" thread. It took me a year and a bit to have a really bad one, but hopefully I've gotten it out of my system. :D

[SiGmA]

$39k would be easy. I'm at $20k and I'm a longg way from my goal.

[nono]

By an already modded car.

[CrazyCoder]

By an already modded car.


Where's the fun in that? :confused

[93ride]

$39k would be easy. I'm at $20k and I'm a longg way from my goal.

20k on what if u dont mind me asking?

[Bris328is]

The point was you dont need the LTW or upgraded clutch for 310whp. And FWIW the UUC will only fix the slipping. It chatters like crazy even with the reccomended fluid.
I know --have one in the other ride-- however-- I am building the driveline for 450hp as that is what I will develop when done-- also the310 is RWHP thats loosley translated with my current gearing to 365 at the flywheel:buttrock

been there done that:D

[happycamper]

theres a m3 on this forum selling for 4k buy and and switch parts

[reginalb]

are these including the original cost of the car? if that is the case, my dream car would hit about 30k. I doubt it will hit that point, but I have spent about 8k in parts to date...it isn't currently running, either, but should be soon, have all of the parts that I need (well, almost), and I have just started the work on the car.

It is a money pit, this thread made me do a spreadsheet, I just don't know if it is a good idea to do everything that I had planned now, haha. But I will continue browsing the classifieds, and the car will continue towards my final goal slowly.

[CrazyCoder]

theres a m3 on this forum selling for 4k buy and and switch parts


Actually I'm seriously considering buying a good-condition M3 and starting with that, I'll need to fix my control arms/bushings before I can sell the 323, but it's an option. Not a whole lot on the market right now, though. Seems most of the M3s down here are Verts and Automatics. :(

That said, if I got an M3, it'll be more expensive than I can sell the 323 for, so I'd have a small payment. The 323, on the other hand, is paid for and has a solid chassis. It's actually in very good condition, other than the headliner falling down and the clunky front end.

[328iJunkie]

Ive Fed with pretty much everything on my car and am up to ~28K+/- (including the 11K for the car). And my shits blown up a few times already. But yeah I can see 30+ easy in the long run (turbo).

[SiGmA]

20k on what if u dont mind me asking?Misc repairs, paint job, body panels, wheels, tires, full suspension and bushings, rebuilt stock spec motor, minor sound system (not on spreadsheet - $1k ish), custom turbo kit... There is at least another $3-5k of parts not on my spreadsheet.

[Bris328is]

Its easy to spend money on a car
BAM-- you are looking at 9800 in mods, in the engine alone-- and its not finished

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/Triskets69/DSC00065.jpg




part is in the trunk

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/Triskets69/DSC00078.jpg

[Righteous]

I would prefer an "awesome E36" over any other car regardless of year or price.

[PFunk242]

I have spent about 6k on my car total (purchase of the car, maintenance, and upgrades).

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/01rtgurl/Photoshoots/Fenton%20BMW%207-26-09/IMG_8518.jpg (http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/01rtgurl/Photoshoots/Fenton%20BMW%207-26-09/?action=view&current=IMG_8518.jpg)